486:"an event must receive significant or in-depth coverage to be notable"......."The general guideline is that coverage must be significant and not in passing. In-depth coverage includes analysis that puts events into context, such as is often found in books, feature length articles in major news magazines (like Time, Newsweek, or The Economist), and TV news specialty shows (such as 60 Minutes or CNN Presents in the US, or Newsnight in the UK)."
451:
442:
Keith, I think you're missing the point entirely. Yes, the source is primary, but it also shows that this is a track used for an FIA-sanctioned continental-level event - far more than is generally required for notability. If you're not going to accept that standard procedure, which I can only assume
622:
motor sports journals and websites. This course is a historic venue used since 1925. Finding more sources in
English or translating non-English sources will take time and effort. Google translate doesn't do well translating motor sports terminology so humans familiar with auto racing jargon will be
613:
Took a few minutes to find a ref written in
English but added a short description of the course and a citation. Time, Newsweek and the Economist don't cover hill climbs but the course and annual race are covered in motoring and racing periodicals. The article is a stub and needs TLC from an editor
555:
Please don't try and patronize me as if I was a new editor with no idea how
Knowledge (XXG) works. The Motoring.com.au source is far from a passing mention; have you even bothered reading it? There are several paragraphs dedicated to just this one hillclimb. The FIA source was never presented as
560:
enough for notability; the fact that an
Australian motoring magazine opted to go all the way to Italy, and included it in their rosta of things to drive, also says a lot. It's also featured on a few racing games, but that won't convince you either, obviously. There's more than a passing mention
454:- indeed, a Google Books search pulls up 184 results across 24 books, almost all of which are at least passing mentions. We're not talking some obscure track that was used once here, but one that has been used at continental and even international level going back to at least the 1960s.
510:'s requirement for significant, in-depth coverage in reliable secondary sources. I understand your enthusiasm for the topic, and I'm happy to relent if appropriate sources can be found, but so far I'm just not seeing it. --
161:
648:
I fully intend, when this AfD closes, to go and do some work on it. I have a (very) limited knowledge of
Italian, which may or may not help - I am definitely familiar with a lot of English auto racing jargon though.
192:
The topic appears to be non-notable. I cannot find any mention of the topic in Google News and only insignificant mentions at Google Books. At present, the article cites only a single, primary source. The
265:
Enok is the article creator who I commend for their contributions to the pedia. However, I'm also hopeful we will hear from some uninvolved editors as well. Thank you to all for your participation.--
480:
Hi Luke, My apologies, I probably didn't make my self clear so I'll be more specific. WP has guidelines for notability and the sources you have provided unfortunately don't meet the guideline.
386:- It's a hillclimb track used in an FIA sanctioned continental event. Evidence is really not hard to find;. Given that this is fairly high up on a generic Google search, I'm questioning whether
572:
114:
155:
332:
312:
241:
292:
121:
87:
82:
415:
That appears to be a primary source. I don't see how it establishes notability for a stand alone article. Has it ever received any news coverage of any kind?--
91:
390:
was really adhered to; given that the first route, and the route that turns up the most sources, which is to simply Google it, was clearly not followed.
74:
575:
578:
489:
503:
176:
143:
502:
In my initial posting I admitted that the event can be found in a number of books but only as a listing or one line mention as seen
17:
233:
198:
237:
78:
137:
666:
639:
632:
597:
546:
471:
433:
407:
374:
344:
324:
304:
283:
253:
219:
56:
685:
40:
133:
194:
183:
70:
62:
556:
anything other than proof of what the track is - something used in a FIA-sanctioned continental event. That is
492:
444:
569:
681:
661:
592:
466:
402:
370:
36:
232:
on Google News, since hillclimbing is a niche sport. Still, Trento-Bondone is an official track of the
149:
650:
581:
455:
391:
229:
169:
387:
355:
539:
521:
506:. So in-depth coverage has not been demonstrated and I don't see how the TB Hillclimb meets the
426:
276:
212:
507:
481:
628:
340:
320:
300:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
680:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
615:
495:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
366:
636:
618:
isn't a reason to delete. The notability of the climb and course appear well documented in
53:
447:
580:... Like I said, notability is not just slightly met, but smashed with flying colours.
249:
562:
531:
513:
418:
268:
204:
624:
566:
336:
316:
296:
619:
108:
358:
to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
245:
491:
and a passing mention in a motoring magazine article about road N45.
674:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
500:
A raw hit count should never be relied upon to prove notability.
443:
is due to a lack of motor racing knowledge, then things such as
104:
100:
96:
488:
So far you've provided a listing in a primary source
168:
446:
exist (which is quite in-depth, and is definitely a
494:You have mentioned a Google search result, however
365:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
182:
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
688:). No further edits should be made to this page.
8:
331:Note: This debate has been included in the
311:Note: This debate has been included in the
291:Note: This debate has been included in the
333:list of Sports-related deletion discussions
313:list of Events-related deletion discussions
330:
310:
293:list of Italy-related deletion discussions
290:
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
623:needed to do adequate translations.
565:, and there are also things such as
24:
234:European Hill Climb Championship
199:European Hill Climb Championship
614:interested in motor sports but
528:02:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)--
1:
667:14:02, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
640:04:11, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
598:12:14, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
547:03:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
472:20:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
434:20:29, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
408:22:17, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
375:00:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
345:16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
325:16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
305:16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
284:18:49, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
254:00:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
57:20:05, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
220:20:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
228:I don't think you can find
705:
504:on this Google search page
197:is said to be part of the
201:which has zero citations.
195:Trento-Bondone Hill Climb
71:Trento-Bondone Hill Climb
63:Trento-Bondone Hill Climb
677:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
244:inside the article.--
663:(tell Luke off here)
594:(tell Luke off here)
468:(tell Luke off here)
404:(tell Luke off here)
236:. You can find the
48:The result was
377:
347:
327:
307:
696:
679:
659:
656:
653:
590:
587:
584:
545:
542:
527:
524:
464:
461:
458:
450:); there's more
432:
429:
400:
397:
394:
364:
360:
282:
279:
218:
215:
187:
186:
172:
124:
112:
94:
34:
704:
703:
699:
698:
697:
695:
694:
693:
692:
686:deletion review
675:
657:
654:
651:
588:
585:
582:
540:
529:
522:
511:
462:
459:
456:
427:
416:
398:
395:
392:
353:
277:
266:
213:
202:
129:
120:
85:
69:
66:
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
702:
700:
691:
690:
671:
670:
669:
643:
642:
607:
606:
605:
604:
603:
602:
601:
600:
550:
549:
475:
474:
437:
436:
410:
380:
379:
378:
362:
361:
350:
349:
348:
328:
308:
288:
287:
286:
257:
256:
190:
189:
126:
65:
60:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
701:
689:
687:
683:
678:
672:
668:
665:
664:
660:
647:
646:
645:
644:
641:
638:
634:
630:
626:
621:
617:
612:
609:
608:
599:
596:
595:
591:
579:
576:
573:
570:
567:
564:
559:
554:
553:
552:
551:
548:
543:
537:
536:
535:
525:
519:
518:
517:
509:
505:
501:
497:
493:
490:
487:
483:
479:
478:
477:
476:
473:
470:
469:
465:
453:
449:
445:
441:
440:
439:
438:
435:
430:
424:
423:
422:
414:
411:
409:
406:
405:
401:
389:
385:
382:
381:
376:
372:
368:
363:
359:
357:
352:
351:
346:
342:
338:
334:
329:
326:
322:
318:
314:
309:
306:
302:
298:
294:
289:
285:
280:
274:
273:
272:
264:
261:
260:
259:
258:
255:
251:
247:
243:
239:
238:official site
235:
231:
227:
224:
223:
222:
221:
216:
210:
209:
208:
200:
196:
185:
181:
178:
175:
171:
167:
163:
160:
157:
154:
151:
148:
145:
142:
139:
135:
132:
131:Find sources:
127:
123:
119:
116:
110:
106:
102:
98:
93:
89:
84:
80:
76:
72:
68:
67:
64:
61:
59:
58:
55:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
676:
673:
662:
610:
593:
557:
533:
532:
515:
514:
499:
485:
467:
420:
419:
412:
403:
383:
354:
270:
269:
262:
230:any of these
226:Strong keep.
225:
206:
205:
191:
179:
173:
165:
158:
152:
146:
140:
130:
117:
49:
47:
31:
28:
620:continental
558:immediately
384:Strong keep
367:Mark Arsten
156:free images
484:specifies
54:Courcelles
682:talk page
388:WP:BEFORE
337:• Gene93k
317:• Gene93k
297:• Gene93k
37:talk page
684:or in a
637:Join WER
534:Keithbob
516:Keithbob
508:WP:EVENT
482:WP:EVENT
421:Keithbob
413:Comment-
356:Relisted
271:Keithbob
207:Keithbob
115:View log
39:or in a
625:DocTree
616:WP:UGLY
496:WP:HITS
240:of the
162:WP refs
150:scholar
88:protect
83:history
498:says:
134:Google
92:delete
448:WP:RS
263:Note:
177:JSTOR
138:books
122:Stats
109:views
101:watch
97:links
16:<
652:Luke
633:ʇuoɔ
629:ʞlɐʇ
611:Keep
583:Luke
563:here
541:Talk
523:Talk
457:Luke
452:here
428:Talk
393:Luke
371:talk
341:talk
321:talk
301:talk
278:Talk
250:talk
246:Enok
214:Talk
170:FENS
144:news
105:logs
79:talk
75:edit
50:keep
242:FIA
184:TWL
113:– (
658:94
655:no
635:)
589:94
586:no
577:,
574:,
571:,
568:,
544:•
538:•
530:—
526:•
520:•
512:—
463:94
460:no
431:•
425:•
417:—
399:94
396:no
373:)
343:)
335:.
323:)
315:.
303:)
295:.
281:•
275:•
267:—
252:)
217:•
211:•
203:—
164:)
107:|
103:|
99:|
95:|
90:|
86:|
81:|
77:|
52:.
631:·
627:(
369:(
339:(
319:(
299:(
248:(
188:)
180:·
174:·
166:·
159:·
153:·
147:·
141:·
136:(
128:(
125:)
118:·
111:)
73:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.