818:
I highly suspect that the claims of existence of this ethnic community in the US is OR. The reason I mention the census data is that in order for this to be a legitimate article, it needs to discuss an actual community. Therefore there needs to be some evidence that there are
Americans who identify as Yakut/Sakha *as a group*. "Americans who have ancestors from Russia/USSR who may have been Yakuts/Sakha or who may have lived in Yakutia at some point" might be an interesting article, but that's a bit different than what this article claims to be (maybe more of a category, if any noteworthy people can be defined as such). Considering that a Sakha
712:. There need to be some reliable sources that can actually flesh out this article, otherwise it should be removed. As noted above the historical article in Russian really doesn't have much to say directly about Yakuts in America. And while the census bureau has "Yakut" as an ethnic category, in the latest census figures that I've seen no one has chosen it as a form of identification. So the half million figures are unsourced and probably wildly over-inflated. Either some strong sources need to be provided, or the whole thing should be canned.
223:
768:
764:
379:. This is a tiny ethnic group within Russia, and it is not clear at all that Yakuts who immigrate to the United States would identify as "Yakut American" rather than "Russian American". RightCowLeftCoast has done a search for sources and has found none that refer to "Yakut Americans" as a distinct topic. This is classic
688:. There are likely to be more than just the couple Yakuts I met in San Antonio in the United States since there a half million of them, there is increasing international involvement in mining and oil/gas within Sakha Republic, and the fact that they had at least some presence in North America dating back 200 years.
494:
1019:: There are some complex issues being raised here, and I think another week will help editors to reach consensus. You may want to reach out to other editors to see if anyone else has more relevant information; while you can't canvas, specific editors, I recommend posting notices on relevant Wikiprojects.
679:
I've also created or worked on stub articles before which were not well sourced but eventually became decent articles. I really don't understand the rush to delete an ethnic group from
Knowledge (XXG). It's not advertising, spam, or likely to fade in significance within two years. It's not a POV fork
817:
for ancestry of Asians in any combination from 2011). Neither "Yakut" nor "Sakha" makes the list. Claiming that there are 500,000 Yakut
Americans is in effect arguing that there are more people identifying as Yakut in the US than there are identifying as Romanians, Iranians, Armenians, or Croatians.
397:
There is no requirement about "separate treatment". There does exist a requirement about "nontrivial coverage". The article does have two sources which treat the topic of Yakuts in
America in a nontrivial way; one being a book whose title, in part says abour role of Yakutia in Russian colonization
827:
from
Yakutia/Sakha to mention this diaspora in their summary of Sakha foreign relations since 1991. I'm all for considering the article notable, whatever it's title would be (Yakut or Sakha), if some actual sources can be provided to show that this group actually exists in the US, rather than as a
1111:
reveals that according to the book "Russia's
Diamond Colony: The Republic of Sakha", there used to be a Sakha-American Center at the University of Alaska, Anchorage. But that was published in 2000, and I can find no evidence that the center now exists - it may have been folded into their American
675:
Until very recently (maybe early 2010), Kazakh
Knowledge (XXG) had very few articles (maybe 5000 articles). It would really bug me because I knew that there were significant topics that were not covered on the internet or Knowledge (XXG), yet I knew they were important (sorry, I can't think of
1073:: Could you provide some of those references and forums that you have? I would be interested to look through them...I have found next to nothing online on the subject of these communities, so I think it would be helpful to review the information you have. Otherwise, I would tend to agree with
653:
It's an ethnic group in the United States. I have met at least a few myself - though not in any of the apparent Yakut hot-spots listed in the article. The size of the ethnic group is most likely exaggerated, but I think that would warrant a "citation needed" and/or "dubious" tag rather than a
608:
However, let us look at the reason for the keep opinion of
Staszek Lem. The editor stated that if there are sources then it should be reasonable for the article not to be deleted. However, the editor did not say whether there were sufficient editors to show that the subject has passed
383:: Yakuts exist, and some Yakuts have immigrated to America, therefore Yakut Americans exist! No; there have to be actual sources that treat this topic "Yakut Americans" as separate from Russian Americans in order for us to write an article, but there aren't.
933:
If this is the case, then may I offer my previous rebutle. Although, there are reliable sources in use in the article, and have also been included here in discussion, those sources primarily deal with Yakuts as being part of the historical period of
676:
specific examples, but I think they had to do with specifc practices during Nauryz and historical figures from the 1500s or so). Eventually, maybe some
Kazakhs got together and collaborated on writing articles, because there is more information.
589:
Not every person voting can come up with an entirely new set of opinions. If
Staszek Lem outlined the arguments well, and very similar to what others would've said, then people can concur. I have also not seen an argument here why the topic
822:
was just visiting the American Museum of Natural History, one would think that at least a mention would be made by the museum of Yakuts living in America, if there was such a community. Likewise, I would expect actual news
477:, but since it focuses on the history of Fort Ross and Russian America, and not primarily about the subject that is the discussion of this AfD, it does not show that the subject Yakut Americans is notable. Perhaps, what
654:
wholesale deleted. Would not support merging with Russian Americans, because they are entirely different. If it is decided to merge this information, "Asian American" or "Yakuts" seems a much more appropriate place.
175:
447:
You contradict yourself. The problem is not with the topic, the problem is with the article title, and the solution is not deletion of information verifiable from multiple sources, but renaming of the article.
247:
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887:, with nice edit count increase, DYK, good article, etc. But I do want the original author's contribution to wikipedia recognized and this new author educated about wikipedia ways, rather than chooed away.
628:
Furthermore, the references that are found, do not primarily focus on the subject, but on the historical Russian America period, which I have suggested the references pointed towards be used to enhance.--
845:
I agree that "Sakha Americans" and "Yakut Americans" as a separate ethnic communities are fairly nonnotable (despite having a couple of forums/websites) in terms of reliable 3rd party sources.
1112:
Russian Center. In any case, what's available would make a useful addition to the Yakuts article, with a redirect from this article, but there's not enough material for a separate article.
729:
I can shed some light why, as some people mention here, recent census does not have "Yakuts": whoever minimally familiar with the topic would have known that after the collapse of the
267:
128:
575:. No discussion has been advanced by those who oppose deletion, thus far, that the subject is notable per the guidelines and policies that define what notability is on wikipedia.--
523:. Perhaps it would be best to make this a redirect right now, but without protection. If anyone wants to develop this page to something better in a future, they are very welcome.
860:
851:
The goal of wikipedia is to serve as an information hub, especially for information not redily available form other wikipedias (and I am not talking about articles kind of
568:. Only stating that an article should be kept without advancing a reason per essays, guidelines, and policies why an article should be kept does not advance the discussion.
848:
At the same time the article contains a piece of interesting historical information about Yakuts ina Americ in 19th century, verifiable from at least 3 reliable sources.
169:
866:
An article with valid verifiable content may have a really lousy title, but to delete on this formal grounds is hardly in spirit of wikipedia. A better approach is to
791:
ancestry, but that is speculation on my part. Furthermore, it cannot be said that they are not included due to a small population size, as populations as small as
497:
is again about Russian America; therefore in truth there are NO reliable sources presently used in the article that support the notability of the subject.--
814:
810:
776:
892:
In other words, I am a devoted inclusionist, as long as an article in question is not a vehicle of promotion of someone's glory or original thought.
310:... You get the picture. I think the issue in question here is: "How large does an American ethnic group have to be before it warrants its own page?"
135:
775:. Otherwise, the subject does not appear to be notable. Furthermore, if we look at the United States Census Bureau's American Community Survey
938:. As such those mentions of Yakuts being part of Russian America, should be used in that article, and used to enhance that article, and
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429:. This maybe a notable subject in connection with important role of Yakuts in colonization of Alaska. Here is another online source
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I understand and accept all your arguments. At the same time please understand mine as well. Bear with me for a sec:
625:. Does the subject exist; I am not doubting that. But is the subject is notable; it is my opinion that it is not.
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is a proper solution, rather than to delete a verifiable and rarely seen (strength of wikipedia!) information.
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of the Americas. On the other hand I do agree that the term "Yakut Americans" is rare usage and no modern info.
311:
883:
References at hand, I could have happily waited for the article deleted and after that I could have written
613:
guidelines and policies. In my opening statement of the AfD. I showed clearly that there are not sufficient
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to the American Community Survey results on ethnicity/ancestry in 2010 (and just for good measure here are
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1211:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
787:, you will find no mention of of Yakuts or Sakhas. This maybe because the may fall under the
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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might be in order, as the population is related to the larger ethnicity, and what
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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430:
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content exist from this article (that we are discussing in this AfD) can be
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have this AfD listed. Perhaps as the relisting Administrator you can use a
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meet the notability guidelines, but would be open to a specific argument.
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1205:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Both DelSorts for the two wikiprojects that cover this article
327:. Nothing wrong with the subject as long as there are sources.
870:
the page (my suggestion above), so that the content preserved.
493:
is about Russian America again (not Yakut Americans), and the
290:- This one is tricky. Perhaps this would be better suited for
248:
list of United States of America-related deletion discussions
214:. In search for the subject, there does not appear to be any
930:
because there is historical reasons to keep the subject?
795:
are represented, with a population estimate of 5,560.--
571:
The primary question in an AfD, is whether a subject is
433:. But as it stands right now, there is little to keep.
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1172:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
1141:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
998:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
906:So to sum up what I understand is the statement by
861:
List of the longest English words with one syllable
196:
268:list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions
873:In other words, it is a good idea not to confuse
755:If this is the case, there does not appear to be
489:, however the two references presently used, the
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1219:). No further edits should be made to this page.
733:Soviet Union, Yakuts prefer to call themselves
230:I am proposing that this article be deleted.
8:
266:Note: This debate has been included in the
246:Note: This debate has been included in the
1053:, on both those wikiproject's talk pages?--
1077:about redirecting this article elsewhere (
680:article. And it's not like an article for
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617:that cover the subject that would meet
218:material regarding this subject on the
944:ethnicity is notable in and of itself
910:, although the subject does not meet
621:requirements for the subject to pass
331:is just as good when it will satisfy
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
961:into the Russian American article.--
779:on ancestry (used for ancestries of
1051:WP:CANVASS#Appropriate notification
940:does not necessarily mean that the
481:content within this article can be
24:
691:This is a stub, not non-notable.
519:Indeed. Or it could be merged to
855:List of towns with obscene names
1049:, message that is keeping with
564:May I remind other editors of
206:Subject does not appear to be
1:
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1151:10:43, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1122:10:59, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
1095:17:22, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
1063:00:36, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
1029:08:46, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
1008:08:40, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
971:06:11, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
902:00:15, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
838:21:57, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
805:21:40, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
747:17:39, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
722:16:30, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
701:23:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
664:23:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
638:21:27, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
604:23:13, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
585:17:29, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
228:general notability guidelines
556:14:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
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507:00:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
458:17:51, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
443:03:27, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
418:20:51, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
393:03:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
372:23:53, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
345:20:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
335:. Size of ethnos irrelevant
320:19:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
280:19:48, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
260:19:48, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
240:19:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
71:04:09, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
1236:
1109:"Sakha-American" -business
1107:- Google Books search for
364:Random Picture of the Day
1208:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
912:notability requirements
485:into the article about
949:Perhaps a redirect to
294:? There is a page for
828:state of conjecture.
773:University of Yakutsk
431:about this in Russian
226:. Therefore, failing
916:significant coverage
777:report for 2009-1011
757:significant coverage
619:significant coverage
329:Yakuts in California
731:last Russian Empire
525:My very best wishes
435:My very best wishes
352:per Staszek Lem. -
312:AdventurousSquirrel
769:here for book hits
763:. See this search
48:The result was
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1083:Russian Americans
1075:RightCowLeftCoast
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1017:Relisting comment
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885:Yakuts in America
797:RightCowLeftCoast
793:Cypriot Americans
789:Russian Americans
785:African Americans
765:here for web hits
682:Negidal-Americans
630:RightCowLeftCoast
577:RightCowLeftCoast
546:per Staszek Lem.
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405:Yakuts in America
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170:free images
59:Sue Rangell
1143:Black Kite
1047:Please see
809:Here is a
611:notability
403:Rename to
401:Therefore
1213:talk page
1043:WP:ETHNIC
825:| sources
673:Addendum:
467:Fort Ross
37:talk page
1215:or in a
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368:Talkback
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727:Comment
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176:WP refs
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148:Google
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