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paper, or
Worthington white shield. What sources there are are reliable, for what they are, but they are only reliable to assure us that these are Tolkien's words, this is Tolkien's world. I've got every book Chris Tolkien published - is there nothing in these sources that refers to him reading it to the other Inklings, or something. No critical reviews that refer to this section. If not, I'm not completely sure what the point of the article is other than regurgitating the book (and yes, I feel exactly the same about all the
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The trouble is, there are no out-of-universe sources for this - nothing that tells you this is based on Finno-ugrit mythology, or was inspired by
Tolkien falling into a netty and seeing a vision of the Virgin Mary, nothing that refers to the difficulties he had writing it because of a lack of ink and
563:
I think this is a premature nom - quite a bit of literary commentary exists about
Tolkien and I think some digging will uncover enough to source the article (as Uncle G has demonstrated). Although I'm tempted to suggest a merge, but in my view, this can be a stand-alone piece.
51:. The only "keep" opinion does not address the substantial problems raised in the nomination. I'm noting for the record that there is a consensus to delete this article, but am closing as a redirect anyway to allow for history-merging of any useful material.
793:
Literary criticism doesn't begin and end with what
Christopher Tolkien read to someone. As evidence of that, although it's not a good source, I give you a self-published work comparing the end of the Age of the Lamps to the destruction of the
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read it, not even the table of contents. Why are you forming an opinion based upon not even reading the tables of contents or indexes of available sources? What weight should the closing administrator give to such an opinion, do you think?
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I'm uneasy to keep an article on the grounds "there's probably something about it..."; perhaps people could post details of anything that supports the article? I am not sure a mention in a publication like
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I can only deduce that the people who are saying that no sources exist have made zero effort to determine whether that was in fact the case. I've already found an atlas and three other encyclopaedias.
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I saw one of the encyclopedias too. But that's a tertiary source... not a secondary source. And probably from one of the publisher's business partners... not an independent source.
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363:. Sourcing is only relevant if people have mentioned the context, impact, or importance of this subject; sources saying "this is what Tolkein said" aren't particularly germane.
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I agree I hyave seen this before. If its not notable now remove and and replace it when it is notable. Or try and find some sources that are independant of the subject.
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Quite. It's no good telling me - I don't have any of the books or I'd already have put the content and references in. Someone needs to put it in the article :)
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Great. We're getting somewhere. If some of the material you mention ends up in the article and it stops being a plot-only summary, it's a very likely keep.
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89:
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and there is no need to merge anything here with another article because this topic, along with other similar ones, is already covered in
583:, which seems like it's basically a reworking of Tolkein's material in a different format, is enough to justify us having an article....
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are not independent of
Tolkien? What on Earth possesses you to think that the fact that something is in other encyclopaedias makes it
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might use the term, but I'm not sure it's using it in a way that's relevant here. (Though, I have to say, I haven't read it)
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that didn't also tell you something about Jane Austen, or the times she was writing in, or what people thought of her work).
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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per the IP above. (and by "merge", if there's nothing really not repeated, that would be a redirect)
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760:. Contributions to the study of science fiction and fantasy. Vol. 89. Greenwood Publishing Group.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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359:; plot-only summaries of fictional work are not appropriate for this encyclopedia, as per
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Clark, George; Timmons, Daniel (2000). "Horticulture and the
Aesthetics of the Elves".
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688:. Critical explorations in science fiction and fantasy. Vol. 7. McFarland & Co.
218:. While Tolkien's work is notable, this article in no way meets the criteria of the
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War of the fantasy worlds: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien on art and imagination
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The evolution of
Tolkien's mythology: a study of The history of Middle-earth
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You don't yet have enough books, obviously. ☺ I suggest starting with
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That argument is weak and highly fallacious. What is unreliable about
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J.R.R. Tolkien and his literary resonances: views of Middle-earth
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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articles as well, and I'd feel the same about an article on
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Sammons, Martha C. (2009). "Art
Theories and Metaphors".
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Splintered light: logos and language in
Tolkien's world
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list of
Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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103:
48:
History of Arda#Valian Years and the Years of the Lamps
256:, deletion isn't needed if sourcing can be provided.
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list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions
802:Gauthier, Nick (2009). "The Felling of the Lamps".
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418:I suggest that Corvus get cracking and find some
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
887:). No further edits should be made to this page.
284:list of Literature-related deletion discussions
704:Tolkien and C.S. Lewis: the gift of friendship
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720:Scull, Christina; Hammond, Wayne G. (2006).
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660:, pp. 118 et seq., taking a quick pass at
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212:. The only reference is a primary source,
672:, pp. 97 et seq., and then proceeding to
515:Which encyclopedia are we talking about?
228:plot-only description of a fictional work
778:(2nd ed.). Kent State University Press.
334:: This debate has been included in the
308:: This debate has been included in the
282:: This debate has been included in the
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230:. The article fulfills the criteria of
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517:Tolkien: The Illustrated Encyclopaedia
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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438:no independent reliable sources to
684:Whittingham, Elizabeth A. (2008).
664:, pp. 61, taking a slower pass at
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722:JRR Tolkien companion & guide
196:The article is written with an
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489:? What makes you think that
200:with no inline citations for
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724:. Vol. 1. Houghton Mifflin.
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220:general notability guideline
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581:The Atlas of Middle-Earth
880:Please do not modify it.
774:Flieger, Verlyn (2002).
674:Clark & Timmons 2000
666:Scull & Hammond 2006
636:Black Dagger Brotherhood
32:Please do not modify it.
222:, being an unnecessary
198:in-universe perspective
702:Duriez, Colin (2003).
440:WP:verify notability
232:reasons for deletion
640:Pride and Prejudice
206:third-party sources
487:Karen Wynn Fonstad
78:Years of the Lamps
70:Years of the Lamps
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706:. Hidden Spring.
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210:notability
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57:Sandstein
804:Diversity
495:David Day
846:The Land
808:Lulu.com
631:Comment
618:Jclemens
585:The Land
521:The Land
380:per nom
365:The Land
122:View log
826:Uncle G
561:Comment
540:Uncle G
503:Uncle G
459:Uncle G
416:Delete:
166:WP refs
154:scholar
95:protect
90:history
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382:Sadads
378:Delete
361:WP:NOT
357:Delete
343:Jfgslo
317:Jfgslo
291:Jfgslo
240:Jfgslo
226:and a
138:Google
99:delete
614:Merge
395:Merge
181:JSTOR
142:books
124:) •
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
864:talk
850:talk
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267:talk
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