Knowledge (XXG):Categories for deletion/Log/2006 December 12

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Area!! Or when you want to compare and contrast various Religious leaders in a U.S. State, etc., etc., etc. Lots and lots and LOTS of cats have very few articles. That does not make them unhelpful or uncyclopeadic. As such, it sure seems you are being way to anxious to delete a number of helpful cats and subcats!! Wouldn't it make more sense to have a discussion on a subcat's talk page as to it's helpfulness? I only create subcats that appear helpful in understanding a topic better, making interesting comparisons between articles, etc. But I am always willing to answer questions from folks who may not see it this way.

478:. That is, whether or not Cartman is a villain has to do with how the parent category defines what the word "villain" means. But using the assumption that we're keeping Fictional Villains as a category, then I think Child Villains is a reasonable subcategory of that. Therefore my vote would be to keep Child Villains as a way to subcategorize members of Fictional Villains who are children. That done, it is probably worth investigating whether to tighten the category definition for Fictional Villains to clarify whether or not unlikable characters like Cartman qualify as being villainous. 3272:- Bishops should be sorted according to diocese, not state. Note that most of Pastorwayne's categoreies are simply impractical, as can be seen in most clergy-related category discussions in November and December 2006. Many of the newer categories are only slightly different from previously deleted categories. (I believe categories such as "Bishops of Ohio" and "Bishops of Texas" categories have already been nominated for deletion in WP:CFD, with strong support for deletion.) Pastorwayne's category creation is becoming disruptive; administrative intervention may be warranted. 1304:, after reading the link that Muntuwandi made available. That article could use some work, but the external links demonstrate that this is a real phenomenon that has been observed and noted by reliable sources. I don't know if I'd call it a "genre" exactly, but it's something, and while this characteristic may or may not be defining for each particular movie, together they construct a larger frame that this category does a good job of cataloguing. I would recommend all future voters 3869:

that could be improved by subdividing them somehow. Whether you divide them by states or regions or diocese or whatever else is kind of beyond the scope of this particular cfd discussion. My advice would be to take the longer term discussion of exactly what subdivision would work best if and when these 569 bishops have articles to an appropriate Wiki project page. There's not much point trying to hash out those future-looking details here and now.

4900:--- On the AfD, he admits he made up the term himself. However, we should still be actively looking for ways to subdivide descent-based categories which are getting too large. Maybe by country would be a better way. One thing which really gets annoying are all the Western porn stars who claim to be this and that to make themselves sound more exotic; a division by country means almost all of them would end up in "Eurasians in America" =). 3230:

some of these categories. But there are hundreds of such underpopulated categories in Knowledge (XXG)! Shall we delete ALL of them?!?! Again, as more of these articles are completed, these categories will become more populated. If I am quick to create categories, some others are way too quick to delete them! Any other questions about any of these categories I will be happy to answer. Thanks!

3225:(though they may be of various ethnicities). No foreign Bishop is allowed to serve in the U.S.A. because foreign U.M. Bishops are elected under different rules, with term-limits and such. Bishops from outside the U.S. are elected for service in their geographical/national areas. This is all according to the Book of Discipline of the U.M. Church!! So 773:. This would be a mess and inconsistent with all the other alumni categories. "Graduates" means "people who have graduated" whilst alumni/ae mean "former students" and include those who didn't actually graduate. All other alumni categories are arranged on this basis. (There's also the problem that the term "Graduate" is often used around Oxford to mean " 4868:. Surely, as you have noticed there are terms such as "European-Filipinos" and "Indo" used to distinguish from other Eurasian groups (if you say Eurasian this refers to those of European and Asian parentage regardless of whatever their backgrounds are) - so why not "Euromalays"? Thank you for your attention. -- 4329:

What has changed is that there is no longer a consistency with related categories. This is a category containing everyone who wrestled for the old ECW, so they are all former members, making them alumni. There are similar categories for alumni of other feds, and they are called alumni, not roster.

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Currently, as BrownHairedGirl pointed out, most of the 569 bishops don't have articles so there's no need to subdivide them yet. However, if and when most of them DO have articles, I think we can probably agree that having 569 articles all under the same category of "American Bishops" is a situation

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has been creating articles on these bishops for ten months, the fact is that there are only 55 articles on these bishops. I count 32 area categories, so we are looking at an average of less than two articles per category. These categories are at best premature; categories that small impede navigation

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Full disclosure, I'm the one who added that description in the first place. I found the category, which had six articles; each article was about a UW-Madison alum so I assumed that was the intent and indicated so—to most people, "University of Wisconsin" means UW-Madison, and within Wisconsin I think

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I feel increasingly that "alumnae" is the term that should be used for this category (and also the three Cambridge female only colleges). Because there are only four UK categories where this is an issue I hadn't spotted this when I originally nominated all the remaining Oxford colleges to be moved to

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on our talk page because we obviously didn't know about that guidline. I still don't like "roster" because it can denote current (just look at the roster articles, they are all current rosters). Maybe using "wrestlers" at the end instead of either "alumni" or "roster", and we can include both past

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no bishops). Many of those denominations had different episcopal areas. With 50 states in the USA, assuming only one episcopal area per state, and assume that some denominations had very patchy coverage (as with the 19th-century north/south split), it is reasonable to estimate that there would need

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With only 55 or so total articles it's unnecessary to subdivide them by state. If and when there are a couple hundred such articles, I'd support subdivision by either state or diocese (whatever is most appropriate). But for now it appears that dividing by state, while possibly forward thinking, is

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all of these categories will become very helpful as more and more biographies of U.M. Bishops are written. It will help categorize them in ways to make each easily accessible and comparable to each other. Countering BrownHairedGirl, of course Bishops serving in the U.S. ARE American by nationality

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includes only bishops who are "who are American by nationality". It seems unwise to presume that Bishops serving in the US will always be American by nationality, and while this could perhaps be resolved by assigning to a different parent category rather than deleting, it does suggest some confusion

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per all of above stated reasons, plus one more: women's hair lengths can vary. Trying to decide if a woman who was on this list (for instance, Crystal Gayle) who cuts her hair short, if she be removed or left on it due to her earlier prominence where she was characterized by her long hair strikes me

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As I already noted, all the alumni in this category are Madison alumni. If someone wants to create a parallel category for UW-Stout alumni, s/he may do so. I am saying that "university system" is nebulous. It's like categorizing by "people from municipalities with the manager-council system"—it's an

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That sounds like a good idea. I'll post a thread at that project. Meanwhile, I'd suggest holding off on changing this category until you guys have a chance to review the guideline I mentioned and see how it might affect your other related categories. Then perhaps do an umbrella cfd nomination for

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But that info is not what that list is for. It is a list of the Bishops, only. Each biographical article, then, belongs in various categories. The Area categories are underpopulated only because not all of the occupants have yet been identified or written. But I assure you, such Area categories

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And don't some of you have much BETTER things to do than to worry about how such a small part of Knowledge (XXG) is being categorized? I bet there are much more popular areas that would be better served by all of your boundless energy! Of course, you'd probably say the same thing (and HAVE) about

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The answer is that subdividing by state is mainly helpful for organization when it subdivides a large number of articles. When only a small number are subdivided, though, it just adds an extra layer of division that makes it harder for readers to find the article they're looking for because rather

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the bishops have articles :( The only useful way that I can see to categorise these bishops is by denomination (with a possible subcat for missionary bishops), with lists for the episcopal areas. That will divide the 569 articles (if and when they are created) into about 8 categories, which seems

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is only for the purpose of NATIONALITY, not assignment or areas of service. The Area categories organize Bishops by where they are/were assigned. The State categories do as well, as do many other categories by U.S. States. Another argument BrownHairedGirl makes is that there are few articles in

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Traditionally the same plural form is used for a male only collective and a mixed gender collective - that does not in itself sweep aside all other gender specific plural forms. "Alumni" means both "former students who are all male" and "former students of mixed gender" but not "former students of

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that says this is the only reason! Indeed, I find nothing there that really says this is the most important reason. Instead, it says to use subcats when that would make it easier for users to find articles: like when you want to know all the U.M. Bishops in a particular U.S. State or Episcopal

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is only for Bishops who are American by NATIONALITY, not necessarily by assignment. Moreover, U.M. Bishops are not assigned to Dioceses. The Areas to which they are assigned are of a variety of geographic areas, so the State categories are helpful to know where each also serves. Plus, just as

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Note that the main article already serves the purpose of linking articles related to the show. A reader interested in reading about any of the actors or characters or other information can simply visit the main article for the show and click the appropriate link. Thus a category is not actually

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It doesn't appear this category is even necessary. Generally it's a bad idea to create unique categories for specific shows and films, including radio shows. Cast lists instead simply can appear in the main article with links to the actors/participants, or in a sub-article as a list. Recommend

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Note that per the Nov 25 discussion, the phrase "roster" was chosen specifically because it can include both former and present members. Also note that, as I mentioned above, Wiki categorization guidelines for people say that occupation categories should not be divided into current and former

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I'm changing my vote to "Strong Rename". It is possible the topic justifies a category, but consider "I love New York apples" and "I love New York films". It's simply unclear whether here you're talking about films made in Africa, set in Africa, or made about Africa. As it stands brings up too

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you could create a separate list for each area; either way, you could rapidly identify which area had enough biographical articles to merit a category. But I'm very disappointed to see that you still think that creating a plethora of categories with one or two article each helps navigation.

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d. Not only are they overcategorisation, but they overlap the actual areas bishops are assigned to. The Episcopal Area categories, on the other hand... The only issue with these is their underpopulation. As they are organised according to the actual position held by the bishops, they are

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a user, why not just ask for clarification. What I meant to say (and if I contradicted myself, of course I appologize) is that U.S. UMC Bishops serve in the U.S. Non-U.S. Bishops serve elsewhere in the World (though at one time U.S. Bishops served elsewhere in the World, too). Since

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I don't understand the distinction you draw. "Alumni" standing alone indicates former students of any gender. The existence of "alumnae," however, would imply all "alumni" categories to be male-only, and I'm not one for encouraging "Alumni and alumnae of" which would almost certainly

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Pastorwayne, if the upmerging would lead to the articles being incorrectly categorised, then the categories have been incorrectly categorised (I noted the problem in the nomination). I have to say that given the number of ill-considered categories which you have created, I have to

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has near 300 entries, some subcategorisation would be useful there; not every creation of an ethnic category means things are "getting out of hand". As for this specific category, I'm inclined towards a delete vote, but I'll reserve comment until further discussion about the

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Note that Pastorwayne's contributions here are self-contradictory: at 12:14 he says that "No foreign Bishop is allowed to serve in the U.S.A", but at 13:13 he says that upmeging would lead to incorrect categorisation. This confusion in purpose is becoming disruptive :(

5989:, The subject is not notable enough to be split by nationality. The category only contains 1 item. Changing it to include all countries will allow it to be populated, rather than hundreds of categories being created for every country and only containing a few items. 4396:

and present roster members. Or we can just scrap these categories. Anyway, this issue has become too complicate now to wrap my head around, so bringing it up to the Pro wrestling WikiProject might help us best decide on the direction these categories go.

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Thanks for doing that. In the mean time though, I think they should all be the same name, regardless of the rules, just for consistency sakes, while we discuss what name they should actually be at, as I doubt that "roster" will be the name settled on.

1555:. In this case, original research doesn't play into it, the external links document that this is a phenomenon discussed widely enough for notability here. There's no need to worry about this being a run-away train of new categories, because of WP:NOR. — 1537:

fits—big parts of the plot is driven by an English woman (played by an American) and two English men in Austria (where the people in the movie speak the wrong dialect) and Thailand (where the most prominent Thais are prostitutes being held in a jail).

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It looks like this discussion already took place on November 12 above. Unless something has significantly changed the category name should remain in place as a procedural matter (to allow for consistency and closure in previously decided cfd's).

1667:, while positive, took time to critique the film for being another in a long line of white protagonist in Africa films. It may be political correctness, or it may be justified, but this is becoming a bona fide issue in cinema, at least for some. 4284:

and that roster denotes current roster, and all pages dealing with alumni were changed to that name. Since these categories are basically the category version of these alumni pages, they should also be named alumni for that same reason.

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per nom...to match the title used by the BBC. The category should be kept, it is useful for linking together the articles on the various aspects of the show - it is more than just a cast list (which already exists in the main article).

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I'll add that I couldn't locate any precedent for alumni by university system, and I don't think Otto4711's suggestion would make any sense in the U.S. Individuals associate with the institution; there's little shared identity between

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As far as I can tell, getting remixed by Fluke is not particularly more significant than getting remixed by anybody else. As such, there's no reason that getting remixed by anybody would be a useful characteristic to categorize by.

5067:. While Sunni and Shi'a are currently well-understood in the West and identified as "Muslim", in part because of the current problems in the Middle East, I don't believe that the average English-speaker would identify, for example, 3835:

bishop has a biographical article (which is at best a long way off); some categories may have a dozen or more articles, but others will have only one or two articles. That situation will be a navigation nightmare, and that's if

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is for American (by Nationality) Bishops, to upmerge all Area subcats to this would be incorrect, since some of those Areas are overseas (i.e., served by non-American Bishops). Only American (Nationality) Bishops should be in

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If these categories were an appropriate way of subdivinding the bishops, the categorisation could be done when there are enough articles to populate the categories. But 51 categories for 55 articles is just category clutter.

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some of these categories (the ones ending in 'Area') are for the equivalent of dioceses (called episcopal areas in the United Methodist Church), and therefore categorize based on the specific office that the person held.

1586:. But I Think Africa is in a unique situation because relatively speaking not many films are set in Africa. Therefore the few that are will have a significant effect in influencing the viewers perceptions about Africa. 724:

I don't think those are useful categories to compare to - they're using "Actors" and "Patrons" to encompass all genders rather than as specifically gender neutral terms that can be applied to any gender specific group.

2304:(or one of its subcategories). The only thing that might justify this having its own category (in my opinion) would be the mini-game articles, which don't appear to have an appropriate parent category on their own. ( 2442:. As the wheelie-bin of despair is emptied into the rubbish truck of destiny, I can only support the renaming. Mrs Tellis has also written to me to me say that she welcomes the clarity of the new category name. -- 3505:

than having one page worth to scan, they instead have numerous subcategories to browse each of which is on its own page. So I think it's best to hold off on this sort of subdivision until it's actually needed.

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to be 100 to 200 categories of the format "Bishops of the xxx church of the zzz area" (plus more for the bishops outside the USA). That's going to be an average of less than 5 articles per category, even if

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are Arabian Nights-style characters who wield scimitars (and are certainly not samurai, and arguably not martial artists). Regardless, I wouldn't object to the merge suggestion below, with some cleanup.

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Overcategorisation: none of the sub-categories which I have examined contains more than six articles, and many are empty. There is also a conflict between the definition of this category and its parent:

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have provided a good justification for keeping categories that end in "Area" (although the categories need explanations to explain what an "Area" is). The state categories should still be deleted.

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divisive an image, perhaps unintentionally, but divisive nonetheless. I certainly see your point; you can make the same case for Chinatown films. I strongly urge a rename, including for the article.

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It's probably a bad idea to categorize games by possible formats they might appear on. It would be a bit like categorizing films by whether or not they've appear on VHS, Beta, DvD, Blu-Ray, etc.

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Tssk, tsk, that's an invalid vote. I thought it was absolutely clear that CFD uses the Second Throgmorton revisions, and that all Metropolitan line stations are off limits unless wildcarded. --

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so let me ask a simple question: the ONLY reason for subcats is when cats become too large? Are not subcats also for helpfully organizing articles for easy discovery and comparison? Thanks.

2719: 6364:- FOR MY STUDENTS, THIS CATEGORY IS AN IMPORTANT LEARNING RESOURCE, AND YOU GUYS HAVE NO RIGHT TO BAN SCHOOLCHILDREN FORM LEARNING ABOUT THEIR CULTURE AND HISTORY. WHO GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT??? 4008: 2271:

This cat is not just the cast, it includes articles on ISIHAC games and characters. (I'm shocked and disapointed that we don't yet have bios of Mrs Trellis or the lovely Samantha ;-) ) --

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Occupation categories should not be divided into "current" or "former" categories. For example, Category:Former child actors and Category:Current Minnesota Twins players should not exist.

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I'd also suggest renaming the category to Fictional Child Villains to make clear that it doesn't apply to actual children who have committed heinous acts (eg real life child murderers).

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It is truly disheartening how someone can come here and vote on this without even reading the several comments already made talking about the article and the topic, including where I

5083:. I would consider it less of an understood reasoning and more for simplicity. If someone does not know what Shi'a is, they can look it up but the categories are already subcats of 2715:

Very few articles, some of which seem only tenuously related to the category. Very little potential for useful expansion. Subcat bundled for this discussion, same justifications.

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Many are about a topic that includes anthropomorphic martial artists/samurai, but that are not one themselves. I'm uncertain if that's an appropriate use of the cat. Notably,

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UW has a number of campuses outside of Madison so a separate category for those alumni is appropriate. Any UW-Madison alumni should go to that cat but non-Madisons should not.

1169: 3377:- I found the original parent category and changed my vote accordingly. I still advocate barring Pastorwayne from category creation, at least for a probationary period. 1068: 5071:

as Muslim. There is no "Ibadi Muslim scholars" category currently, but I still believe that the extra identifying word in the category name is descriptive and necessary.

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Some of you seem to think the only reason to create a subcat is because the parent cat is too full (100's of articles, for example). However, I find NOthing in the

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I have just done some counting. This category tree contsains 74 entries, amounting to to only 55 unique articles. That's a total of 51 categories for 55 people. --

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Non defining subcategorization of villains. Most entries are not true villains (such as Nelson and Cartman) and those which are should be upmerged accordingly. ~

5904:. Category appears to be empty, and in practice, few major companies past or present would use such a limiting term as "web design." Most such firms are either 2748: 810: 649:, because all graduates and former students of this college are female and will be for some time to come. Note that the college website has an "Alumnae" page. 4848: 3539: 3645:

category and first level subcategories not containing "Area" (all of the state categories which contain area subcategories). For now, keep already existing

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with a diagram on each category's page. The only way it would be needed is if there are two identical Shi'a categories and they needed distinguishing. --

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Would it be possible to divide this discussion into the state categories and the Episcopal Area categories? The state categories should definitely be

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per nom. If and when the number of such groups becomes significantly larger, I'd support dividing by nationality. But for now it's not necessary.

1533: 5815: 5803: 5791: 5771: 5757: 5745: 5733: 921:. It is clear enough. Anyway the College has agreed to admit men even though a date has not been fixed. It is unlikely to be long in the future. -- 21: 5436: 5133: 1113: 1005: 2959: 2918: 3661:: I think this is unwise. I can see that the Bishops by area categories are a different case to the state categories, in that they are at least 3119: 2942: 98: 5539: 2913: 2207: 830: 806: 3124: 3087: 3010: 2993: 2891: 2218: 6827:

who is regarded by many as the best footballer in the world, Is a strongly religious and he tithed his income from football to his Church †

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I don't think the title is unclear, but "Films featuring a white protagonist in Africa" would also work. How do you feel about that title? —

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Like I said before, these bishops don't represent say New York. I don't see why they should be categorized as such. Merge all, like I said.

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enough biographical articles are written on a particular area to merit a category, by all means create the category; but not until then.

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is more for the actual shows than the mini-games within the shows.). So barring a way to subcategorize the mini-game articles such as

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Therefore the categories you mentioned that break wrestlers down between current-and-former categories should probably all be merged.

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Well, I'm just looking for name consistency, as I pointed out with the other categories above. I would suggest bringing this up to

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Categories should only exist where the characteristic is nearly always relevant, and not where it is relevant in just a few cases.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Knowledge (XXG):Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_12&action=edit&section=25

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I assume that in England, as in Australia, all prime ministers enjoy cricket for political reasons if not also personally!

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