Knowledge:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 December 3

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hence the controversy which surrounded its merger with the SLI, and then the Light Infantry, just as with all the other now-defunct County regiments. No-one, as far as I can see, is suggesting that anu unit which may sometimes have been based in Cornwall should be in the cat - just those which are strongly linked to the County. RAF Davidstow Moor has hardly moved about at all! Just because a cat has 'military' in its name, doesn't mean that it's only of use or interest to military historians. Please try to consider the effect deletion would have on users with other interests to your own!

329:, there is considerable debate within the Jewish community as to whether someone who does not practice Judaism is considered a Jew. This would indicate that the definition is primarily religious. Furthermore, this yardstick for being a Jew is confusing and thus not encyclopedic if you are going to invent reasons why this category is different from others. Do you include lapsed Jews (e.g., Jews for Jesus) into this category provided they confrom to 3831:

useful. It also does not in anyway prevent other categories being applied as appropriate to articles. It doesn't really matter whether or not Cornwall is or ever has been a soveriegn entity, what matters is what is useful to users. Putting eg DCLI, Davidstow Moor, etc in a Cornish military cat does not make any kind of claim about Cornwall's status - and I am a little surprized that some users seem to think it does!

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on practice, but on maternal lineage. The Reform are more based on upbringing and religious practice, but the crux of the debate has almost nothing to do with religious practice, and more to do with birth. There is also no debate whatsoever within mainstream circles that "Jewishness" is an ethnicity, so that argument's out as well (in fact, we even have a

2926:. Unlike "Roman Catholic criminals," which has been correctly proposed for deletion, it is common in the media and literature to refer to Irish-American criminals or gang members. As for Mairi's point that it is the only ethnic subcategory of American criminals, that is a good point and should be corrected.-- 3724:

There is a third approach, whether one believes in Cornish identity or not - a simple analysis of control. Who do the 'Cornish' armed forces answer to? Not to the Cornish Chief of the General Staff, but to the UK Chief of the General Staff; not to the First Sea Lord of Cornwall, but to the UK First

355:

Actually, there is little to no debate within the Jewish community that "someone who does not practice Judaism is considered a Jew". The Orthodox would consider a Catholic priest to be a Jew if his maternal grandmother was Jewish, for example, as Orthodox considerations of who is Jewish are not based

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difference there is. Finally, please don't call me disruptive -- I am as entitled as you are to question how the category system functions and have done so in a reasonable manner, and furthermore have brought to light the same inconsistency in standards as demonstrated by the existence of categories

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Having said that, your suggestion has appeal. Given that there is no de jure Cornish military identity the best categorisation is one done on a geographical basis. If done on a geographical basis then there is no reason that other English counties, Scotland, Wales, NI, etc shouldn't have their own

1803:

and listify. This is not a TV series, it's just a branding for a slot in the broadcast schedule, and it includes a variety of rather different TV series. I don't see any gain from categorising TV series by their scheduling with one particular broadcaster, and the downside is that if we keep this it

3902:

As for the point about military units moving around all the time, well, the DCLI (and its predeccessor, the 32nd Foot) is inextricably linked to Cornwall (see eg. 'Queen Victoria's Little Wars' by Byron Farwell for discussion of the contribution made by Cornish miners during the Siege of Lucknow) -

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I think Xdamr's suggestion has some merit, but it would still leave eg the DCLI without an appropriate Cornish sub-cat to go in. Categories are, as I have tried to say before, about making it easier for users to find related articles. In terms of Cornish Studies, a Cornish military category is very

3698:

There seem to me to be two sides to this - those coming from a Military History viewpoint, for whom a category 'Military of Cornwall' does not make sense for the reasons given by several users above; and those coming from a Cornish Studies background, for whom the Category is useful and makes sense

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Hi, IIRC categories can have contents that overlap? However the contents of the Norwood categories do seem incomplete, at first glance, & I suspect it would be tricky to keep them 100% complete. But judging from where everyone came from at the Crissie P. firework show last Wednesday I suggest

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Cornwall has never had a distinct military identity, so it is meaningless to label something as being the "Military of Cornwall". More generally, militaries are categorized by states (or non-state actors which have armed forces), not by purely geographic regions within states. The issue has been

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I should mention that in general most television series shouldn't have their own unique categories. It appears that this category could also simply be handled as a list article, and I'm wondering if being an "episode" of PBS Mystery is notable enough to warrant a unique category for the show.

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I'm aware that there's a general revelance of most religions and math, which is why I didn't nominate the other categories. But I wasn't aware of any relationship to atheism, and none of the 3 articles in the category (one of which makes no mention of atheism in the article even) suggest much

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as per the other protagonist categories. Almost all of these are video game characters, and many of them actually aren't actually silent; ffor example, the player inputs what the protagonist is saying in the Quest for Glory series, but the series' protagonist is categorized as "silent" here.

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No, because the terms "witch" and "wizard" and whatever else can mean very different things in different contexts. For example, many Buffy/Angel characters have magic powers but aren't witches/warlocks. Boy witches on Charmed are still called witches. Dr. Strange or John Constantine is not a

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categorisation may be needed, but below that into county level seems to me to produce fragmentation where none is required. As to your other point, Cornwall seems to produce these responses because of the whole is it/isn't it England debate spilling out all over the place! Cheers,

3549:

as someone who is very interested in Cornwall and its coverage on wikipedia, I find the category very useful for navigation and as a way of spotting subjects lacking coverage. A category is just a 'box' for putting things in, not a statement of concrete reality or assetion of

1673:, This category includes more than just people, such as books and general topics. The new proposed name seems more inclusive and accurate, and could act as a parent category if there is ever a day where we need to split out the apologists from the general apologetic topics. 4396:, This category has been created to group together areas and sub areas that happen to have Norwood in the name. Whilst they are adjacent they are distinct areas that have little in common. Also, London is categorised by borough, and this only adds confusion. 3611:, no de facto or de jure Cornish military identity; each of these units are, or have been, under the control of the British armed forces, with absolutely no direct control eminating from Cornwall. Debates over Cornish identity are one thing, but this is silly. 926:- There is a diffrence between a magician, somone who preforms tricks for an audience, and a magic user, someone who uses "magic" within a reality where magic exists. The diffrence being the magic does not have to be real for someone to be called a magician. 4427:

Unhelpful and confusing, with no real common thread except the name. Sydenham, Gypsy Hill and Anerley are non-Norwood areas that seem to spread into the area up the hill in the old Great North Wood area - I don't think a category could really reflect that.

2526:. My view is that either we categorize mathematicians by religion, or we don't. Personally, I don't think we ought to. However, if we do, I think it is innappropriate to single out any religion (or non-religion) for special treatment. Either they should 3127:

I created this as a sub-category of "Irish-Americans", which was getting too big. As such, it's needed. After having created it, I noticed that unlike most other "Irish-American" sub-categories, this one did have encyclopedic value as many Irish-Americans

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have a lot in common; its only the unusual circumstances of being at the crossroads of 5 local political boundaries that have 'riven them asunder', and societies like, say, the Norwood Society have long been fighting that problem.

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per nom. Categorizing bases by their location would be meaningful, as Xdamr says; but, for things like military units, the place where they were barracked is a fairly trivial detail that doesn't make sense as a category structure.

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There is no Nobel Prize for Mathematics. Nonetheless, the intersection (atheist and mathematican) is useful for anyone doing quick research on Knowledge with the intention of finding atheists who work in a mathematical field.

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Given the debate on other religious/ethnic categories, it seems that a review of any religious categorization in Knowledge is in order to ensure consistency. I personally do not support deletion of this category and vote

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There is already a category for "illusionists," as in, people with the power to cast illusions. Non-powered stage illusionists should not be included in that category; "stage magicians" is a sufficient descriptor for

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From a Cornish Studies viewpoint, the category is helpful, and has a place in the Cornwall cats - the main Cornwall cat is kept as clear as possible from entries, instead articles being assigned to an appropriate

4182:, Most Australians will know the company more by its previous name, than this. At least a redirect should happen from Coles Myer to Coles Group if it is to pass. I do not advocate deletion of the former name. 2748:, Ambiguous: could mean persons are contestants in a game show of the indicated country (intended), or persons are nationals of the indicated country who appear on a game show (of any country) (not intended). 3953:

It's not a question of what effect deletion will have on users; categories, like articles themselves, must reflect the truth - if a category name gives a misleading impression then it ought to be corrected.

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That articles appear in the appropriate place in the Military category tree, which is helpful for users whose interest is Military Studies and is consistent with other articles about military units, bases

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It's at least as valid as some of the other categories being kept on this page. It is necessary to separate with a category those drivers who failed to start a World Championship race from those that did.

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as I think there's relevance in the history of math. Also some mathematicians really did use their position, or math itself, to promote their views on religion. If enough atheists would fit that I'd say

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identity - none of the units listed in the article were part of the armed forces of an independent Cornwall, but are rather components of the armed forces of the United Kingdom (or its predecessors).

3512:

Cornwall does not have a distinct identity recognised in law; (devolution etc) it certainly has agitation and campaigning for one, but its status is presently the same as any other English region.

3896:- but as far as I can see, no-one is contending this! What I'm saying is that from a Cornish Studies perspective it is very useful to have a cat to put 'Military in Cornwall' articles into. 392: 364: 4414:

Seeing your comment elsewhere re C.P. & Upper N., might you get the clarity you seek with better disambiguation, links & statements in the first paras. of the affected articles?

3656:- but it does not mean that these units should be categorized as Cornish. The fact that Cornwall is referred to as one of the six Celtic nations does not seem to affect this discussion. 3925: 3252:

were both recently deleted for POV problems and I felt this one should follow suit. if it is decied to keep the category, then a stricter definition on who is included must be placed.

2523: 3110: 3106: 3102: 3042: 3136: 2600:. While I am personally skeptical of the reasoning behind that parent category, and think it is an unnecessary categorization scheme, as long as that scheme remains in place then 3747:

doesn't sound good, so better wording is needed. Given that there are three distinct armed forces, why not have seperate geographical categories for each? We would end up with

2290:, The band has only produced one album before disbanding. Since they've remained disbanded for years with no sign of coming back, there's no potential growth for this category. 486: 263: 42: 37: 3049:, mainly), and no apparently reason why Irish-American religious figures (or leaders) are any different. This category for some reason also uses 'figures' instead of 'leaders'. 2053: 307:

as disruptive non-nomination made to make a point. The comparision between the two categories is spurious as this one is both a national category and an ethnic category, while

3843:

The problem with this is that military units move around all the time. You will end up lots of very low population categories with very little chance of growth. At the most

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From a Military Studies viewpoint, the current category is unhelpful and has no place in the current category tree for the Military, which is based on sovereign entities.

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Cornwall may or may not have a distinct identity (the article you linked to describes the debate over its status as "ongoing"), but this is not the same as a distinct

2137: 873:. Currently includes all fictional magic users who are not witches or wizards, but not all of the remainder are called magicians either. A more general category, with 3652:

I'm not entirely sure how this is relevent. As Xdamr and BrownHairedGirl have pointed out, Cornwall may have a distinct cultural identity - no-one is disputing that

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restrictions in the parent on what occupations may be included. Until and unless the parent category is deleted or somehow restricted in definition, categories like

4303:, not a defining characteristic. Ecco can't talk but isn't silent either with his ultrasonics; the AFGNCAAP has access to a variety of "order X to do Y" commands. ( 992:(or witches) as appropriate; I believe the distinction between 'magician' and 'wizard' to be somewhat arbitrary, and I find the term "magic user" to be haphazard. ( 3725:

Sea Lord, etc. Their allegiance is pledged to HM the Queen of GB and NI, not to any Cornish institution. Therefore they are most explicitly not the armed forces

2865:, and the fact that Irish-American criminals does not seem like a distinct topic that could potentially have an article. Also the only ethnic subcategory of 2042: 1576: 1470: 1376: 1282: 1188: 2564:, not a meaningful itnersection - does the Nobel Prize distinguish between religions? But ProveIt is correct that they should all have the same treatment. 2597: 1969: 682:

for style purposes. Its defining characteristic is mind-bogglingly self-explanatory. Suggest that those voting for deletion are not familiar with F1.

610: 4458: 788: 376:- We've got every single other ethnicity-American categorized (or sub-categorized whenever the initial category gets too huge). This is on par with 3567:, but locating a Cornish military category on this part of the tree is inappropriate, as Cornwall doesn't really qualify as an independent entity. 3933: 3921: 3704: 3597:

per nomination and Emoscopes. Cornwall does not have a distinct military identity, although it does arguably have a distinct cultural identity. --

3074:. The practice of categorization by religion and ethnicity is well established in Knowledge, so deleting these categories would be inconsistent. 1278: 4082:, and also ensure that any members of it are appropriately additionally catted in the Military cat tree. I would suggest including a note on the 3967: 3924:

as it's an unneccessary duplication of categorization. If you are insistant on keeping this particular category, i would suggest renaming it to

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By the way, the parent category had a cfd nomination that resulted in "No Consensus" on September 21 2006. You can view for reference it at

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and I'd prefer we didn't subclass actors by ethnicity. However, it is unfair to single out any single ethnicity for special treatment. --

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per nom - there may be a case for a military history of the Duchy of Cornwall article, but the UK forces are under one overall command.

333:? Do you include converted Jews who do not have Jewish grandparents? I'm asking because your answer will help determine how much of a 959: 882: 4014:

tidy and clear of articles. Perhaps, given the strong 'county' ties of British regiments, thought ought to be given to categorising

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as more appropriate since (1) I doubt a succinct category name is possible; and (2) the race/s as well as the drivers can be listed.

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The problem is really that this category should not be grafted onto the Military by country category tree - it doesn't belong in

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Which is why my keep was conditional. Also atheism is not, per se, a religion so I'd agree it can be discussed a bit different.--

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Maybe one of them tried a mathematical proof for the non-existence of God. (Slightly joking, but stranger things have happened)--

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I'm not voting, but I think that however much one knows about Formula One, one should accept that this is a marginal category.

217: 141:, which I will be proposing for deletion as there are surely not enough notable F1 podcasts to make anything useful out of it. 3928:. It's hideously long, but it accurately describes both the contents and the intent of the category. This would be a child of 2725: 2261: 2038: 1663: 3752: 3378: 3071: 2832: 2734: 1234: 1880: 60: 4517: