Knowledge (XXG)

:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 January 21 - Knowledge (XXG)

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2142:. True, this is not duplication, but it is unneccessary overcategorisation. It is appropriate to have separate Scottish and English cats where the relevant articles relate to the period prior to the Act of Union or where there are significant differences between the situation in Scotland and England, or for cultural categories about the culture of Scotland and England (etc). In other circumstances, categorisation should generally be by state - the United Kingdom, for which the associated nationality is British; this is the practice for other countries on Knowledge (XXG). In the case of Egyptologists (it appears the capitalisation is correct), for example, 279:: Personally, I'd really prefer not to start introducing different English-language terminology depending on whether the category is European or American. That's opening Pandora's Box IMHO. Maybe in some cases it makes sense but in something as benign as radio presenters vs. radio personalities, I think it would be better to keep them consistent. Otherwise, you'll start seeing people creating separate categories for "Radio presenters by country" and "Radio personalities by country" when, essentially, we're talking about the same thing. More confusion that it's worth. — 695:
But thats what we'd be doing if the cat is kept. And oh, if a user "considers" himself a martian, would that user cat be appropriate despite the fact that the user's supposition is logically impossible? This user wishes to be Suvadivian in the same way when the name has been defunct for a little less
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as many people with Canadian legal nationality consider themselves to be Quebecois rather than Canadian!). The basis of the whole cats by nationality hierarchy is founded on legal nationalities relating to independent states. Anything else is a recipe for inviting POV-pushing from every seccesionist
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which is the article Fizan appears to be re-writing. Nowhere in the article you pointed me to is there any suggestion that there is no such location as the Suvadives and Fizan himself states it is a "geographical region" in his comments below. I suspect there may be POV issues on both sides here. As
2272:
I have played a role in getting inappropriate subject area English categories deleted, but it is not inappropriate to subdivide people between the different parts of the UK. Unlike many subject area categories for England this does not misrepresent the way things are organised in the real world, it
1948:
Future articles can go into future categories. It's extremely simple to create new categories in the future and usually just as simple to change the category relationship hierarchy in the future as well. There's no point creating categories for articles that don't exist yet. As far as matching
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I admit that I don't know much about Maldivian politics, but I worry about this, from the point of view of precedent. Maldivians may be quite happy with some of their citizens regarding themselves as Maldivian, but do we allow this and not "Rhodesians", say, or "Yugoslavian"? It could be a can of
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It's every bit as significant a factor as whether they were from the United States or Canada. If you say that nationality is an important factor (which we imply by there being splits of Egyptologists by nationality) then whether a person is Scottish or English is an important factor. (that's a
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and you are missing mine. Scottish, Welsh, Northerm Irish, and English are separate nationalities, exactly as Canadian and American are. The existence or otherwise of separate passports is irrelevant - AFAIK the Vatican City doesn't have passports either, but no-one would dispute that being a
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Rhodesian and Yugoslavian would be wholly proper for user cats. They would not be proper for cats holding mainspace articles (except in an historical context). If someone were to choose to describe him/herself within the user hierarchy as "Rhodesian", for example, it would make his/her POV
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The Vatican City is an independent state. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not. QED. I understand exactly what you are saying; you state that as English (for example) is a separate cultural nationality then it should be acceptable to have cats by nationality for English
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You appear to be missing my point. The legal nationality of people in both cats (that which is comparable to the United States or Canada) is British, not Scottish or English. There is no legal Scottish or English nationality. No-one has a Scottish or English passport etc.
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on WP and counter POV-pushing from supranationalists. This is not a case of me arguing against England or Scotland or any kind of POV nonsense like that; it is simply trying to ensure a consistent standard for the categories by nationality hierarchy.
732:. Worth noting that there are newly created Suvadives items at TFD, SFD and AFD, and that an article on the former briefly-independent nation was written - in the present tense. Looks like someone's pushing a big POV here. 2221:
Egyptologists. I too consider that English is a nationality, but it is not a legal nationality; no-one is a citizen of an independent state called England. As such being English (or Scottish or Welsh) is quite explicitly
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unlike the above nomination, this category is not a 'country' or 'nationality' based category, but instead the awards of a specific organization, using their proper name. As such, the nominated name is preferrable.
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than half a century now. Please note that the officially (and unofficially) recognized names for that part of the country is now Huvadhoo, Fuvahmulah and Addu which was restored immediately after its capitulation. --
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OK, point taken (this is getting to be a habit!) In the case of the four nations that make up the UK, though, I think that a case could definitely be made for them being an exception to many rules, and they
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I would support such renaming judging by the current category content. But where would the future articles about UA insurance companies and stock exchange go? Are there cats. for them? If not - rename to
686:"We" are not assigning anything to anywhere. The user considers himself Suvadivian, this is a user cat. I will happily support the deletion of cats for mainspace articles, but not this user cat. 1069:
Definition is vague. This sort of category is open to abuse by people who want to use wikipedia for advertising - not saying that is the case here, but the principle applies nonetheless.
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as per Honbicot. Militaries, wars, and military equipment are all 'of foo' according to naming convention policy (they were as close as I could get to military awards and decorations).
42: 37: 1534:. Don't know all of the background. So there may be a reason for this statying with transport. But if England is Transportation then it is likely that India should be also. 555:. Several other subcats do not refer to nation-states, but to supranational areas (e.g. Oceania) or to historic nations not currently states (e.g. Scotland). If this were not a 1580: 559:
cat, we might debate whether a hierarchy based on countries should apply; however, it is a user cat and users should be able to name their location as they see fit and useful.
2154:. The Scottishness or Englishness of the people in these cats was not a significant factor in their Egyptology and therefore the standard nationality hierarchy should remain. 267:: I think there's a real and legitimate difference in language use — it genuinely seems that the term "presenters" is far more the norm in Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong. 2246:
frequently treated separately in Knowledge (XXG). If there's to be consistency either way on how they are designated, I'd favour them being regarded as distinct nations.
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want to do that? Is Ukraine set up differently than other countries somehow? If there's a large-scale mixup where now they're all wrong, someone does a large-scale {{
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I'll go with Oblivious. Please understand that Suvadives is the former name given to a group of separatist islands (a geographical region) under the territory of the
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I am not sure if we should assign a non-existant nation's name to an existing part of a country's territorial claim based just on one Wikipedian's reference.--
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simply makes an extra click necessary to reach the articles. That is a price worth paying as I would expect all the articles about English people to be in
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Seems to be a better choice, shorter and matches subcats. There are various versions in the parent that may need cleanup depending on how this vote goes.
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This is effectively an effort to edit the (sole) member's user page. If historical accuracy requires doing something, why not make it a subcat for
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or keep. Also, is "matching the other country categories" a WP rule? What if I was first to discover an all-encyclopedia mistake? Theoretically?
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I was going to just speedy to fix the U.S., but I think this is a better and shorter title. Seems to match the other subcats at this level.
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all of the problem categories since they're all in one place. If Ukraine's is off by itself for some reason, it might never get fixed. —
17: 1372: 350: 197: 1406: 1271: 464: 827:. non-existent country, Maldivia will have to do, as it will have to do for any other disappearing country (East Germany, etc.) -- 548: 193: 2135: 1613:
This category needs a name that reveals where these churches are and what type of locations we are talking about. As it stands
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Category created by anon where they did not understand how to create an article on a redirect - moved material to redirect --
2143: 2139: 2020: 2016: 1875: 647:. It was soon claimed back and almost nobody within (and outside) the Maldives would relate to it by that name now. The name 572:, there isnt a place called Suvadives. That page is pretty much misleading. A rewrite of the whole thing is being written by 1544:
England isn't "transportation". That discussion is about a totally different issue and of no relevance to this nomination.
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to Wikipedians from Suvadives. People born before 1963 are still alive and may like to list it as their place of birth.
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my request for merge per User:Mais oui! Someone may remove the tag unless my withdrawal is not propper procedure.
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and everyone in the categories are television talk show hosts. Radio hosts have separate categories (under
580:. Referece and source to be added to the this. Spend sometime reading this and you'll know what I mean. -- 2424: 1848: 1735: 1126: 987:
The category has not been used, I presume this to be that this is due to them being awarded from the
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as per nom. Too small as it stands, but there are probably some sportsgrounds or something to add.
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This would be a relevant issue if this were a cat for articles in the mainspace. However, it is a
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How do you determine who is Scottish and who is English in the absence of any legal definition?
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cat, the user can state his location, nationality etc. as anything he feels to be appropriate.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above.
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as per nom. Consider this a relisting of this by myself. I will add a proposal to also merge
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There are many "of Foo" categories for awards, and I prefer it. But speedy the abbreviation.
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These categories are for television talk show hosts, not radio. Their parent categories are
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Only three article, parent category has only a few articles and discriptive enough name.
2408: 2362: 2287: 2231: 2190: 2155: 2117: 2075: 1962: 1921: 1239: 1109: 791: 763: 750: 720:, which will keep the national cats in line with the present set of recognized states? 687: 669: 615:
The geographical region I was referring to is the part of the Maldives that used to be
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Rename to fall in line with other categories such as 'Category:DC Comics locations'
2437: 2111: 1636: 1427: 1138: 1125:, AFAIK being "contemporary" is not significant trait to categorise photographers. 996: 843: 543:. The country may no longer exist, but there continues to be a location called the 501:. It dissolved in 1963. Poeple cant be from a non-existing country now.. can they? 416: 268: 2412: 2301: 2225:
like being American or Canadian (In fact being Canadian is very much like being
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Convert to standard format for categories of buildings in line with the parent
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mmm. Good point. I still favour delete, but not as strongly as I did before.
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cat. If the user considers himself a Suvadivian (?) then he is a Suvadivian.
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territory, which I must stress again, does not exist by that name any more.--
498: 2392: 1831: 1093: 923: 2203:". Note the first word. It's not a state assembly or a regional assembly. 644: 2067: 2066:
No they are not duplicate categories. English is a subcat of British:
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This doesn't match the categories for other Australian cities such as
1086:, do not use "contemporary" in cat titles. Cat by decade if you must. 86:
rename (matches other fictional planets cat names as well this way)
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Clearly there is at least one Wikipedian who relates to the name
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separate country. The parliament of Wales, for example, is the "
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There are many "of Foo" categories for awards, and I prefer it.
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for reasons mentioned in reply to the other nomination above.
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Category:Awards and decorations of the United States military
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Category:United States National Guard awards and decorations
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Category:Awards and decorations of the U.S. National Guard
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All the other Northern Territory categories have a "the".
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May want to delay voting on this till the vote below on
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Category:United States military awards and decorations
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Convert into Commonwealth English to match the parent
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Category:Churches in Australia by state or territory
790:transparent, which seems to me to be an advantage. 1526:is completed. It could make more sense to rename 2432:Specific words as opposed to what? 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My link goes to 589:Are you disputing that there is a 28: 1455:Category:Transportation in Mumbai 465:Category:Wikipedians in Suvadives 427:: per nom. 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2006 (UTC) 725:21:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 701:04:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC) 691:19:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 682:11:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 673:04:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 660:04:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 624:11:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 611:04:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 585:04:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 564:03:34, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 536:16:58, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 519:13:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 506:12:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 497:There is no such country as 493:13:16, 30 January 2006 (UTC) 441:12:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC) 431:is full of radio hosts too. 420:05:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 408:16:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 341:13:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC) 289:15:42, 24 January 2006 (UTC) 272:01:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC) 260:18:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 248:16:57, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 226:13:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC) 171:18:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 157:13:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC) 102:20:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC) 93:13:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC) 2201:National Assembly for Wales 2146:is not subcategorised into 2110:I'd say just remove your {{ 1615:Category:Churches of Umbria 1532:Category:Transport in India 1493:Category:Transport in India 578:User:Fizan/Suvadive_rewrite 547:. The parent cat is called 129:Category:Singularitarianism 2471: 749:Pushing a POV, exactly. -- 385:X television personalities 65:Category:DC Comics planets 1880:Category:Banks of Ukraine 1108:: per nom. and Radiant. — 871:Category:Depth psychology 125:Category:Singularitarians 2451:Please do not modify it. 2340:Please do not modify it. 2318:Please do not modify it. 2032:Please do not modify it. 2006:Please do not modify it. 1891:Please do not modify it. 1865:Please do not modify it. 1778:Please do not modify it. 1752:Please do not modify it. 1688:Please do not modify it. 1662:Please do not modify it. 1617:would be a fair entry. 1592:Please do not modify it. 1566:Please do not modify it. 1470:Please do not modify it. 1444:Please do not modify it. 1384:Please do not modify it. 1358:Please do not modify it. 1310:Category:Sport in Sydney 1287:Please do not modify it. 1261:Please do not modify it. 1181:Please do not modify it. 1155:Please do not modify it. 1048:Please do not modify it. 1026:Please do not modify it. 966:Please do not modify it. 944:Please do not modify it. 882:Please do not modify it. 860:Please do not modify it. 599:United Suvadive Republic 476:Please do not modify it. 454:Please do not modify it. 429:Category:Talk show hosts 347:Category:Talk show hosts 324:Please do not modify it. 304:Please do not modify it. 209:Please do not modify it. 183:Please do not modify it. 140:Please do not modify it. 114:Please do not modify it. 76:Please do not modify it. 2329:Category:Specific words 2275:Category:English people 718:Wikipedians in Maldives 595:Atolls of the Suvadives 576:and can be located at 1916:: Fix to match other 2074:are not synonyms.-- 526:: per CG janitor. — 1937:Finance in Ukraine 651:is used only as a 2375: 2255: 2212: 2180: 1824:to avoid abbrev. 810: 781: 741: 51: 50: 2462: 2453: 2411:. Unclear name. 2397: 2385:, not specific. 2369: 2342: 2320: 2253: 2210: 2178: 2042:keep (withdrawn) 2034: 2008: 1893: 1867: 1836: 1780: 1754: 1690: 1664: 1594: 1568: 1472: 1446: 1386: 1360: 1289: 1263: 1183: 1157: 1098: 1050: 1028: 968: 946: 928: 884: 862: 808: 779: 739: 478: 456: 326: 306: 211: 185: 142: 116: 78: 47: 36: 31: 2470: 2469: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2449: 2425:Pavel Vozenilek 2394: 2338: 2332: 2325: 2316: 2030: 2024: 2013: 2004: 1889: 1883: 1872: 1863: 1833: 1776: 1770: 1759: 1750: 1686: 1680: 1669: 1660: 1590: 1584: 1573: 1564: 1468: 1462: 1451: 1442: 1382: 1376: 1365: 1356: 1285: 1279: 1268: 1259: 1179: 1173: 1162: 1153: 1127:Pavel Vozenilek 1095: 1046: 1040: 1033: 1024: 964: 958: 951: 942: 925: 880: 874: 867: 858: 722:Septentrionalis 474: 468: 461: 452: 322: 316: 311: 302: 207: 201: 190: 181: 138: 132: 121: 112: 74: 68: 57: 52: 45: 34: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 2468: 2466: 2457: 2456: 2444: 2443: 2430: 2418: 2409:category:words 2402: 2363:Category:Words 2346: 2345: 2333: 2331: 2326: 2324: 2323: 2310: 2308: 2307: 2295: 2294: 2293: 2267: 2266: 2265: 2264: 2263: 2262: 2261: 2239: 2238: 2237: 2129: 2128: 2115:...</s: --> 2094: 2093: 2081: 2038: 2037: 2025: 2023: 2014: 2012: 2011: 1998: 1996: 1995: 1989: 1982:as requested. 1977: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1897: 1896: 1884: 1882: 1873: 1871: 1870: 1857: 1855: 1854: 1841: 1819: 1784: 1783: 1771: 1769: 1760: 1758: 1757: 1744: 1742: 1741: 1729: 1694: 1693: 1681: 1679: 1670: 1668: 1667: 1654: 1652: 1651: 1642: 1630: 1598: 1597: 1585: 1583: 1574: 1572: 1571: 1558: 1556: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1552: 1551: 1476: 1475: 1463: 1461: 1452: 1450: 1449: 1436: 1434: 1433: 1390: 1389: 1377: 1375: 1366: 1364: 1363: 1350: 1348: 1347: 1335: 1293: 1292: 1280: 1278: 1269: 1267: 1266: 1253: 1251: 1250: 1233: 1221: 1187: 1186: 1174: 1172: 1163: 1161: 1160: 1147: 1145: 1144: 1132: 1120: 1103: 1054: 1053: 1041: 1039: 1034: 1032: 1031: 1018: 1016: 1015: 989:United Kingdom 972: 971: 959: 957: 952: 950: 949: 936: 934: 933: 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1890: 1887: 1864: 1861: 1856: 1843: 1821: 1809: 1798: 1787: 1785: 1777: 1774: 1751: 1748: 1743: 1731: 1719: 1708: 1697: 1695: 1687: 1684: 1661: 1658: 1653: 1644: 1632: 1621: 1612: 1601: 1599: 1591: 1588: 1565: 1562: 1557: 1521: 1509: 1496: 1490: 1479: 1477: 1469: 1466: 1443: 1440: 1435: 1423: 1410: 1404: 1393: 1391: 1383: 1380: 1357: 1354: 1349: 1337: 1326: 1307: 1296: 1294: 1286: 1283: 1260: 1257: 1252: 1235: 1226:as per nom. 1223: 1212: 1201: 1190: 1188: 1180: 1177: 1154: 1151: 1146: 1134: 1122: 1105: 1083: 1070: 1068: 1057: 1055: 1047: 1044: 1025: 1022: 1017: 1008:Not useful. 1005: 992: 988: 986: 975: 973: 965: 962: 943: 940: 935: 913: 902: 891: 889: 881: 878: 859: 856: 851: 836: 824: 806: 777: 759: 737: 729: 713: 665: 655:reference.-- 652: 648: 640: 635: 634: 616: 603: 590: 556: 540: 523: 511: 496: 486:no consensus 485: 483: 475: 472: 453: 450: 445: 433: 432: 424: 412: 398:: per nom. — 395: 384: 382: 333: 331: 323: 320: 303: 300: 295: 276: 264: 252: 231: 218: 216: 208: 205: 182: 179: 174: 160: 149: 147: 139: 136: 113: 110: 105: 96: 85: 83: 75: 72: 1994:as per nom. 1801:Vegaswikian 1711:Vegaswikian 1536:Vegaswikian 415:: per nom. 99:waffle iron 2102:CG janitor 2055:CG janitor 1918:Banks of X 905:Paul foord 653:historical 602:this is a 516:CG janitor 425:Rename all 413:Rename all 396:Rename all 334:rename all 163:Salix alba 55:January 21 43:January 22 38:January 20 2288:Valiantis 2232:Valiantis 2191:Valiantis 2156:Valiantis 2118:Wknight94 2076:Mais oui! 2019:merge to 1963:Wknight94 1922:Wknight94 1635:per nom. 1426:per nom. 1240:Wknight94 1137:per nom. 1110:Wknight94 991:instead. 792:Valiantis 772:worms... 764:Valiantis 751:Oblivious 688:Valiantis 670:Valiantis 666:Suvadives 649:Suvadives 608:Valiantis 582:Oblivious 570:Valiantis 561:Valiantis 545:Suvadives 528:Wknight94 503:Oblivious 499:Suvadives 400:Wknight94 281:Wknight94 240:Wknight94 2354:Syrthiss 2248:Grutness 2205:Grutness 2173:Grutness 2171:, BTW). 2098:withdraw 2088:Honbicot 2070:and the 2046:Syrthiss 1941:Ukrained 1905:Syrthiss 1814:Honbicot 1792:Syrthiss 1724:Honbicot 1702:Syrthiss 1606:Syrthiss 1484:Syrthiss 1398:Syrthiss 1342:Honbicot 1301:Syrthiss 1228:Honbicot 1195:Syrthiss 1074:Honbicot 1062:Syrthiss 980:Syrthiss 896:Syrthiss 841:Vizcarra 829:Vizcarra 803:Grutness 774:Grutness 734:Grutness 645:Maldives 617:Suvadive 591:location 490:Syrthiss 338:Syrthiss 223:Syrthiss 154:Syrthiss 90:Syrthiss 20:‎ | 2438:Bearcat 2434:Upmerge 2423:?????? 2350:upmerge 2227:British 2068:England 1637:Sumahoy 1428:Sumahoy 1139:Sumahoy 997:Greaser 844:Bhoeble 839:as per 417:Sumahoy 277:Comment 269:Bearcat 265:Comment 150:upmerge 2421:Delete 2413:Osomec 2390:adiant 2383:Delete 2302:Osomec 2064:Oppose 1992:Rename 1984:ReeseM 1980:Rename 1914:Rename 1901:rename 1844:Rename 1829:adiant 1822:Rename 1810:Oppose 1788:rename 1732:Oppose 1720:Oppose 1648:Korske 1645:Rename 1633:Rename 1625:ReeseM 1622:Rename 1602:rename 1514:ReeseM 1512:asap. 1510:Rename 1497:Rename 1480:rename 1424:rename 1411:Rename 1394:rename 1338:Rename 1330:ReeseM 1327:Rename 1318:ReeseM 1297:rename 1236:Rename 1224:Rename 1216:ReeseM 1213:Rename 1204:ReeseM 1191:rename 1135:Delete 1123:Delete 1106:Delete 1091:adiant 1084:Delete 1071:Delete 1058:delete 1010:Osomec 1006:Delete 993:Delete 976:delete 921:adiant 892:delete 837:Delete 825:Delete 730:Delete 641:Delete 636:Rename 597:, not 551:, not 524:Rename 512:rename 257:Osomec 253:Rename 232:Rename 219:rename 2407:into 2405:Merge 2396:|< 2395:: --> 2367:dcljr 2279:CalJW 2132:Merge 1835:|< 1834:: --> 1546:CalJW 1500:CalJW 1414:CalJW 1097:|< 1096:: --> 927:|< 926:: --> 698:Fizan 679:Fizan 657:Fizan 621:Fizan 574:Fizan 438:Meegs 46:: --> 16:< 2372:talk 2298:Keep 2270:Keep 2254:wha? 2211:wha? 2179:wha? 2169:Keep 2150:and 2122:talk 2084:Keep 1967:talk 1959:find 1955:cfru 1926:talk 1849:Josh 1736:Josh 1698:keep 1530:and 1244:talk 1114:talk 809:wha? 780:wha? 760:user 740:wha? 714:Keep 604:user 557:user 541:Keep 532:talk 404:talk 285:talk 244:talk 167:talk 35:< 2250:... 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Index

Knowledge (XXG):Categories for deletion
Log
January 20
January 22
Category:Planets of DC Comics
Category:DC Comics planets
Syrthiss
13:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
waffle iron
20:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Category:Singularitarians
Category:Singularitarianism
Syrthiss
13:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Salix alba
talk
18:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Category:Danish radio presenters
Category:Danish radio personalities
Syrthiss
13:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Category:Radio personalities by nationality
Wknight94
talk
16:57, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Osomec
18:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Bearcat
01:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Wknight94

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