Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 12

5498:: These are all international courts, not UK or USA domestic courts, and even though "charge" may not be ambiguous under English or American common law, it can be elsewhere. International courts themselves typically use "indict" to maintain accuracy when writing in English, and the French translations use the equivalent. In many jurisdictions—primarily European civil law countries—"charge" (or the foreign-language equivalent) can mean an informal accusation made before a person is indicted. Thus the term is avoided by international courts since civil law judges commonly sit on them. In any case, some sort of consistency needs to be brought to bear with these categories one way or the other. 1712:

loosely, but the basic meaning remains. And as you quite rightly mention not all books contain or are "novels". A companion term to "novel" would "short story" which is very akin to a novel but few mistake that these are synonymous with the term "book". Also broad is not always the most useful especially when the element of categorisation varies so widely. Work is clearly the broadest term of literary work, "writing". It would include a writing form poetry, drama, verse, novel novella, shot story etc. All book does is use a description of the package. It say nothing about the "type" of content. ::

5298:

emotion but belong to the affective nevertheless (emotion is most generally restricted to strong feelings: calmness, for instance is not an 'emotion'). So, if we keep category 'emotion', it remains only to create the right parent category, which could be 'feeling and emotion', or 'affective states' or whatever (I don't like the substantive 'affect' because it does have too many specialized meanings): I don't care much for the name as long as the much needed category is brought into existence. --

5522:

the statute, and the English version speaks of preparing and issuing an "indictment". The French version calls it a "l'acte d'accusation"—literally, "the bill of indictment". In judgments, the term is used as a verb, and the French phrase used is "la mise en accusation"—literally translated it means "the committal for trial", but it is translated into the English verb "indicted" by the ICTR. Hope that helps.

1942:

for each author. I think a decision is needed as to whether such a supercategory is actually needed, and the roles of both types. Otto has stated his view there (as has Kevin) but at the moment more existing categories reflect a view that "books" is for non-literary works. I support continuing classifying by genres like novels; the implications of abandoning this would be enormous.

245:- Then somebody is gonna have to: 1) make that distinction on the category pages; 2) purge the heck out of this category, because it's full of serial killers; and 3) monitor the category to keep them creeping back in. The only killer I monitor is Dahmer, and that's because he's a local boy (I think I may have eaten at the same Taco Bell with him a few times, years back). -- 4178:"Homophobia" is a perjorative term, and the category does not provide adequate distinction between violent and nonviolent anti-LGBT entities. The name "anti-LGBT activism" is both descriptive and NPOV, and should solve many of the disputes over the category itself and the articles within it. A new category was recently created, 1961:, however if that is the case the article makes none of this clear, let alone the category. If fact the article is very cursory at best. Do you know enough to improve it even a small amount. I confess I know little of this one. If it is as you same a collection it probably should be recategorised. :: 419:

I agree you did it in good faith, i don't think i said it wasn't. what i said was that if you wanted cleaned up categories, you don't nominate for delete, you said you wanted deleted categories and settled for cleaned up categories, that to me seems like using delete for cleanup, which is an ongoing

3755:

all articles that are already included in one of the subcategories and articles that aren't actually about fictional animals. If the categories in question are going to be deleted, all other 'fictional animals by medium' and 'fictional animals by taxonomy' categories should be collectively nominated

800:

China with those about Islam in the PRC may indeed be useful, but that purpose is served by templates, not an "Islam in communist states" category. Also, though the nominator's tone may not be appropriate, his/her point about the general validity of a class of categories (religion by regime type) is

5459:

Change of imprecise term "charged" with the more precise and correct "indicted". A "charge" could be a formal indictment or an informal accusation. An "indictment" is something that can be objectively measured—it either exists in hardcopy or it doesn't. Will bring categories' names in line with two

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as a criteria for many conditions, but DSM never mentions the word "Emotion". I suggest leaving Category:Emotion as it is. I have noticed that all the professional psychology articles are categorized under specific categories and none are left under Emotion currently and they are also not under the

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has a specific meaning within the field of Psychology and Psychiatry. It forms the basis of several categories in DSM-IV, the current diagnostic manual mandated for diagnostic use by psychologists and psychiatrists and other medical and mental health professionals in the United States. Renaming the

5521:

French and English are considered equally authoritative at the ICTR, but you are right that most of the proceedings are first carried out in French and then translated to English. In the ICTR Statute, the statute never uses the term as a verb, as in "indicted" or "charged". It is used as a noun in

1941:

which anyone is welcome to comment on. At the moment both "books by author" and "works by author" categories contain very many sub-categories like this, that only contain another category. I think there have been attempts in the past to make both of them supercategories which would havwe an entry

1778:

should be the parent and the various types of works (books, plays, screenplays, sculptures, paintings, whatever) should be the children. There is IMHO no navigational utility in categorizing novels separately from books because all novels are books. This is an instance where a navtemplate would be

782:

is quite special one and certainly deserves a category. Nominator's jokular tone is not valid argument. Each topic must be considered in its own merits. For example, I would see nothing strange in the topic "Christianity in Musim world", which is quite comparable with the topic "islam in communist

5297:

It appears that emotion is a 'popular' term, and though as a category it will be hard to specify what it will include or not, it could be kept if wished for. But then, it will need a parent category which will also include feeling, mood, sentiment and all those things that are distinguished from

1889:

That is certainly not how the system works at present, in the great majority of cases. It may have been the original intention, though there is nothing to say so in the relevant category descriptions. Few authors have both Works and Books categories, and most stop at novels or plays etc level.

1711:

A Novel is a literary form of writing often thought of in terms of a high quality of writing but more normally used of nearly all longer pieces of fiction narrative prose. Thus "novels" are writing! Books are the physical things you can pick up and open containing writing. The term is used very

3578:, and only that. There is apparently some confusion regarding what was nominated, so I'm closing this at the highest level, of what was actually requested. If any of the subcategories need to be merged as well, please renominate them, and list them all, so as not to create further confusion. 1981:

I've added a bit. Actually this may be a good example to take to discuss the book/novel-or story issue because, unusually, the material first appeared as a series of monologues on radio, although the title of the article was first used for the published version in book form.

1936:

is surely misclassified as a novel - it is a short-story collection (with the odd shared character I think) for which there is another category. The way the "books by ..." categories are supposed to work is very unclear to me, and I have started a proposal for discussion at

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proposed renaming. Too complicated & confusing, as already noted. However, I've been editing in this subject area and exploring the huge array of categories, and I think it would be useful to broaden the category somewhat, since Affect and Emotion are closely related:

5461: 319:- I will only repeat, since the consensus is clearly against me here, that those supporting the retention of this category will have to do the cleanup, since last time I looked, the articles in this category were almost every one of them serial killers, 5327:. I suggest leaving Category:Emotion for the articles that combine religion, philosophy, original research, popular psychology. etc. and if they also end up in the general Category:Psychology, then than is the problem of those particular articles. -- 5144:

per nom but suggest "Emotion" should remain and a redirect tag added redirecting to the renamed category due to the likelihood of a layperson using "emotion" when searching for the category. Maybe this is done as a matter of course (I am not sure).

5482:. "Charge" is a perfectly acceptable legal term and is not in the least imprecise or incorrect. Whereas this might be the case in the USA, in the UK, for instance, it is the term always formally used, whereas "indictment" is almost never heard. -- 3917:

These intermediate categories, while technically correct, are impractical. If I start from "fictional mammals" and want to find, say, a badger, I have to browse down first to "fictional carnivores" (not everybody knows badgers are carnivores), and

751:

covers approximately 18.5 centuries, of which only .5 were under communist rule, which illustrates one problem with this categorisation scheme: regime types change; for some countries, they change every few years. A similar problems exists with

4017:. convenience of navigation. First, fictional animals do not have this really detailed zoologiczl taxonomy. Second, I strongly suspect those interested in fictional rats are hardly experts in zootaxonomy to embrace its alleged benefits here. 3267: 3235: 4003:. Though I am not adverse to the idea of trimming some layers, mirroring the taxonomic system has distinct advantages. One of them is pointed out by Johnbod above. The other is that it makes navigation easier and more predictable. – 3646:

under fictional dogs or dogs in written fiction, as the book is about more than just a dog. (It's not under "boys in written fiction.") Besides, "fictional characters by species and by type of source" seems an undesirable three-way

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I'm not sure we need another level of category here to group just these two subcats: and then the picking of 3 seems arbitrary - particularly, mass murderers and serial killers by number of victims seems a bad precedent to set.

5427: 756:, which consists mostly of articles about the countries that used to be the 15 republics. As with China, the scope of the "Islam in ..." articles is not limited solely to the communist period. Second, I think this constitutes 2747:- each of the categories is limited to one or more (and in several cases none) of the subcats: albums; members; songs; along with the artist article and sometimes a discography. Per precedent this is overcategorization. 1903:

Clearly the system needs a major overhaul and I've commented on the proposal at your link already. For this particual CFD, though, I still believe that the more broadly-based "Books" category is the one to keep.

3605:, the difference is not really made in practice - both contain a combination of books and characters. I suggest that the two category trees are substantially overlapping and redundant, and that the former be 4042:. Once that's done, we're no longer parallelling the real-life taxonomical cats, but I'm still torn on whether to elimiate the other umbrellas too. If the general rule is to bar nonterminal subcats of 5439: 281:? I think that's a more awkward solution, but if we're scared about the clean-up involved, the category should at least be renamed so as not to give the impression that they are all serial killers. 5465: 42: 37: 3389: 3967:

would be fine. No need to mirror the taxonomic system. The only downside I see is that articles that fit the canine, feline, or mustelid category, but not any real world animal type (e.g.,

5166:

The proposed renaming gives a false sense of accuracy. The new category would be just as controversial and ill defined as the older one, but now no longer of any meaning to most readers.

5129:

There is much controversy in psychology on what is or is not an emotion: the term affective is suggested as more inclusive for referring to this major area of interest in the discipline.

4141: 5534:

Um, no, the translations I've provided are literal (you van check a dictionary yourself) and the other ones I've provided are exactly how the courts themselves choose to translate them.

179:: They are not the same thing, and the categories may not have been managed properly or defined as they should be. In criminology, a serial killer is a person who kills multiple people 4632: 3971:, who is an "ottsel," half weasel and half otter) are just animals then, and not under more refined categories. But I'd be fine with putting such "half-" creatures under both halves.-- 5512:- I'm leaning toward the proposed renaming for the sake of consistency, but I'd like to know: What term does the ICTR itself use? (I presume its proceedings are conducted in French.) 4137: 1998: 5531:

Thanks for your answer. I think some of your translation/explanations are a little bit off, however, it's clear to me that "indictment" is indeed the correct term. Therefore,

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That is a biographical category, and the subcats here contain mixed sorts of articles, and are well-categorised. The relevant articles that I have looked at are under are

778:

may be a mistake of categorization (but this may be disputable: for understanding of Islam in PRC the previous 18 centuries is good to know). But the issue of religion in

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per Rich Uncle Skeleton. Moreover, if I'm not mistaken, "mass murder" has a specific definition in the USA: the murder of 4 or more people in one location at one time. –

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wikipedia problem. to me, it darn clear that these are two different categories, so deletion makes no sense, but you saw them as clear overlaps, which is fine. --

3401: 5423: 4999:. Instead it is an incidental attribute of the titles of the articles. I really don't see the point of this. Additionally, there is also a categoty called 5036:, based on coincidence of names or their sources. The circumstance of being calques from German is just that: a circumstance, this is much better handled in 4660:, I've added one cat & the sub-cats are now respectively adequately and excessively categorised, I think. The articles themselves are not "subjective". 4501: 3413: 389:. In all fairness to Orange Mike, I don't think that's why he nominated this category. I don't agree with the rationale for the nomination, but I think it 3255: 86:. The nominator got confused between two terms and regrettably deemed that they are synonyms. However, the parallel existence of two distinctive articles 4865: 4763: 4362:

both as non-defining, per Carlossuarez46. There's no grounds for keeping these categories when we deleted the more significant freemasonry categories. --

3999:, in particular "felines", "mustelids", and "canines". As I understand it, the nomination seeks to merge the contents of the four listed categories into 927: 504: 21: 1659:- all novels are books and there is no need to maintain a separate novels and books categorization structure. "Books" is broader so it should remain. 1147: 5435: 5451: 1800:

works. There is no "by author/artist/creator" category type that links written and non-written works (a job for eponymous categories, sometimes).

261:- I understand Orange Mike's position but on balance I think that most people can detect a difference between mass murderers and serial killers. 4497: 3788:

I could be wrong, but I think that Radiant and Mike Selinker are suggesting that the whole tree (all of the " in literature" cats) be merged.

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What next Islam in capitalist states, Islam in socialist states, Islam in democracies and then Christianity in Capitalist states and so on .

405:- Thanks, Necro. You are correct; I saw no distinction here worthy of a separate cat, and therefore made the CfD nomination in good faith. -- 119: 1692:

I do not understand what this comment means. As far as I know, all novels are books, but all books are not novels. If the choice is between

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This does not deal with my concern, which is that the is a totally subjective hodge-podge of articles. This is not a strong category like

1619:- agreed. This is not needed and the parent would more naturally be "Works by" anyway. That is unless the author wrote non novel books. :: 911: 5041: 5017: 4983: 1876:. There should also be a list of Keillor's works in his article and a navtemplate on each of the works articles, divided by type of work. 373:

an appropriate way to mark for cleanup. if cleanup of this category is a sufficient solution, nominating it for deletion or merging was a

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to "fictional mustelids" (most people don't know the term "mustelid" period) before I can find it. I am aware that this works well for

3263: 3231: 1530: 1036: 753: 3730:, but also that all of its "X in literature" subcategories should be merged directly into the corresponding "Fictional Xs" subcats. 3485:, it seems clear that this change is happening. Some of the arguments there are about how this fits with UK law are irrelevant: per 3421: 2119: 1471: 1455: 1372: 5040:

where it can be sourced or axed, rather than adding etymological categories to countless articles. The rest of the tree headed by

5020:, and vast swathes of the Linguistics tree as well. You need to explain why etymology is not a suitable area for categorization. 4278: 3397: 1016: 148: 110: 4286: 4144:), both of which closed with a clear keep result. Editors should please check for previous CfDs before nominating a category. -- 3409: 5003:

to which this thing could be merged into. However, I think that same logic for deletion may apply to that creation as well. --

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This category is a collection of topically unrelated articles, most of which do not document how they qualify for inclusion.

4787: 4269: 4230: 3105: 1554: 151:; indeed, almost all members of this cat are in that one. What constitutes "mass murder" as opposed to mere serial killings? 2477: 1267: 2005:

to "Works by..." - weakly because all the books by & works by are so random, a major overhaul is needed. At any rate,

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No they are not! "box" being confussed with the "content", being the usual container does not make the content the box. ::

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general Category:Psychology as Knowledge (XXG) opposes articles not under categories that remove them from the general

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I agree with Arnoutf - the proposed new title is meaningless to most readers. I can't see this being helpful at all.

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I'm not opposed to keeping it, but the current name should be at least sentence-cased, unless it's a proper noun. --

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