Knowledge:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 July 25

2975:, I agree that the term 'location' is a more precise term. But when I said, "place" is more precise", I meant that it would be a more precise solution for the problem as how to name the category. Exactly because 'place' is not so precise as 'location' it is - to me - the better solution for the category title. Because every place has a location. Can a location disappear? No, places can disappear, but their location is eternal. Every place has a location, and even if the location of the place may change, we still mean the same place. I am unable to put it better into words than 4505:. Speaking as a practicing lawyer, I find this category offensive. If we keep it, I suggest we rename it "Universities that have been accused of Title IX violations, but have yet to be be proven culpable of anything." Quite simply it flies in the face of WP:NPOV, the presumption of innocence, and common sense. And from a Knowledge category guidelines perspective, the category is not a defining characteristic. As usual, the most controversial XfDs always involved editors with an agenda. 4929: 3224:

funded, so that its completion is fairly certain, the article is perhaps legitimate. However if Phase I of a scheme is under construction (or funded), but other aspects have been pushed into a later unfunded phase, we ought not to have an article. Nevertheless, attacking the category is the wrong approach; the right one is an AFS on the articles. If this leaves an empty category, it will be automatically removed.

2640:"Location" is a point or an area on the map, whereas "place" is used to refer to cities or countries. When the country of Yugoslavia broke up, the location on the map did not vanish, just the state was no more. A location only consists of his coordinates, a place consists of much more. Location can never change, except the coordinates. Places can change in many ways and also can disappear. 2757:, this is subjective. However I think it is objective, that "..by place" describes the categorys function spot on. "geographical location" is longer, and broader defined. I only would agree upon "geographical location" if the category would hold degrees of latitude and longitude. With this response I update the rationale above with additional reasoning. 4461:: "A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having." Perhaps the problem is that we should be changing the name to "Schools named under investigation for mishandling sexual violence" -- this focuses it, as well as gives it more historical longevity/less maintenance. Thanks for your help! 4572:, but I do want to answer your other critique. The schools listed were named on a historic occasion, as part of a presidential mandate to clean up universities and colleges. The category does not presume "guilt," as this is about compliance, any more than the continued publication (un-updated) of this historic list by the US government suggests. 3204:

articles probably could be dropped from the categories since the dates are not mentioned and/or are not referenced. That could reduce the number of articles requiring review to determine the fate of the category. Or it could simply empty the category, which should be OK if the articles can't support inclusion in the category.

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For same reasons as previous discussion. The term "place" in geography is used to refer to entities with ambiguous boundaries. "Location" is used to refer to a specific, defined point. Environments, continents, settlements, bodies of water, and weather systems are very good examples of the former and

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characteristic of any school, but that seems to editors' opinions rather than substantive evidence (including colleges' and universities' own websites), which suggests that Title IX and Clery compliance status is becoming a central concern for administrators, faculty, parents and students (apologies

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That is not a workable way to categorize people. We maybe could exclude people who were only the girlfriend of a footballer for a short time, but as long as they were the wife of a current footballer we have to keep them. I would also point out that there are complex gender oddities in this category

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Not circular reasoning; you are trying to substitute a less precise term for a more precise one. "Africa is a hot . Italy is a beautiful . The West Bank is a dry ." works just as fine, but "bookstores are well-lighted places", "museums are quiet places", "sports arenas are loud places", work but you

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Violates ERGS rules in general, and name makes it even more in violation of ERGS rules. We categorize people by religion, not by belief. In large part because belief is a private, hard to determine fact, religion is a public fact, which has a varied relation to belief, since at various times various

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The relevance of the intersection of the very broad term "scientist" and the very broad term "atheist views" is hard to show. This is an irregular construction at best, and I am not convinced we know enough on enough scientists to adequately distinguish these from those with agnostic views. Over-lap

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As the creator of the category, I guess it could use some clarification - these are institutions that were named under investigation by a historic maneuver. Previously, schools under investigation had not been named. So, when the federal government made its announcement that these were institutions

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The category system needs to be quite explicit on its own as no category description appears on the child articles. The current title is a better match than "WAGs" which will not be readily understood by quite a sizeable part of our readership. I don't think we need to make comment on the subject –

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Sorry, the point I was poorly attempting to make is that it should be defining. WAGs are generally famous for being WAGs, whereas the likes of Cheryl Cole and Victoria Beckham were already famous for some other reason. Perhaps they're still considered WAGs though. But still rename, regardless. The

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I don't have an agenda, and I studiously keep my political and social opinions out of my Knowledge activities. You should try it. I also note for the record that you have failed to answer my substantive objection: that the category presumes guilt or culpability, and that should be a problem for

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inot a single "2020 and after" category. It is well-known that large public infrastructure projects are frequently delayed, or are curtailed due to lack of funding. If the railway or the station is actually under construction, an article is legitimate. If a project is fully and unconditionally

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to reflect the under construction status. I suspect that 2015 will also turn out to be mostly under construction and hence need a rename rather then deletion. It takes time to actually read the articles, while trying to do other things, and determine what the best approach is. Some of the later

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for completion, but not yet designed or funded based on the article. The design for the line to service it is still being designed. Do we know that there will be no delaying in the plan? No construction delays? No funding issues? Name one construction project planned for 10 years that meet the

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The claim we need "the" is just plain false. Colorado Territory can be used without "the" in front of it, and this is probably the more common way of using it. It is clearly not more common to put "the" in front of it. Saying "I lived in Colorado Territory for 10 years" is a perfectly acceptable

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original schedule. For the 2022 stations they are simply planned. The dates were moved back since there is no funding for the stations in an earlier phase of construction. So we are assuming funding will be available to meet this date which is not referenced or even mentioned in the article.

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The fact that the President's own taskforce NAMED (for the first time EVER) these institutions, and that the news has widely broadcast this naming, further makes it a defining feature for a lot of current and future occupants. I'm happy to work to consensus, but I must admit some frustration

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the main is called "sports" so all the subtypes should be called "sports". There's more than one sport, so unless it is a single sport, it makes no sense to call it "sport". (waterpolo is a sport, but water sports are a group of sports); besides "air sport", "water sport", "winter sport" are

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violation as an eponymous category for a person who doesn't have the volume of spinoff content necessary to warrant one — all that's here is his head bio, a discography and an albums category, and thus the head article itself is more than sufficient. As always, the rule for musicians is that

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issue (THANKS!), but cleanup does not justify deletion. Defining has been shown through countless sources here and in the article. Temporary cat wouldn't necessarily apply b/c its all schools having been under investigation -- subcats might/could be "Found in non-compliance," "placed under

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no consensus. Since there is no consensus for deletion, it would be helpful to have a fresh nomination in which it's pointed out that there is no consensus for deletion and that we just need to discuss the name: rename or not? The rename proposal was essentially sidetracked by the deletion

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no strong consensus here on what to do, but to keep this category I think we would need consensus that we should categorize scientists by religion/belief system. Since the most recent consensuses for the related "scientists by religion" categories have resulted in deletion (see the related

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This is categorization by quite possibly short-term connection with someone in a specific profession. Most other professions we limit these type of categories to actual spouses of the people involved. Girlfriend opens up to too much fuzziness, and I think we should just scrap this entire

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to assist the reader. I've added the proposed alternative name. I bet that to a layman "wives and girlfriends" is simply "wives and girlfriends", not WAGs, as such even an average reader (non-editor) may think that the current title is odd and tabloidish, borrowed from yellow press.

3443:(1) We do not like abbreviations, because their meaning will not be apparent. (2) The category exists basically because Footballers in England are so grossly overpaid that their WAGs are liable to make an exhibition of themselves, in a way not uncommon for the 3573:

category should be kept because it is a way several women do become famous, though obviously for someone to have an article on Knowledge, it probably won't be their only claim. A category for men would probably be HABs, but I don't know of any notable HABs. –

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everyone raised or educated in our common Anglo-American legal tradition. And, yes, I do find such attempts offensive. Knowledge does not exist to right great wrongs. I will leave it to others reading our words to judge where the NPOV violation exists.

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while the intersection of science and religion (or lack thereof) may be notable; there is no indication that agnostic scientists do science differently that those scientists who are sure that there is or is not a God. So this category is improper.

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and also support deletion of the "by date" parent. Infrastructure projects frequently slip from schedule so this is a very temporal category type. I also do not see the benefit of grouping projects by their projected completion date.

4724:. This is certainly verifiable, but it doesn't have the long-term and wide-ranging significance to be defining. This is temporary, anyway - the investigations will end, and categories should be used for permanent characteristics. 2657:

Africa is a hot place. Italy is a beautiful place. The West Bank is a dry place. The word "place" is used for a continent, a country and a region. It can equally well, but not solely, be used for cities or objects like buildings.

3934:-- I doubt that this would ever be better populated. I winced at the description (in parents) "in UK" as Saint Helena is a dependent territory of UK, not part of UK. I have made a separate nom to deal with this issue, 4970:

even the "by year" part. This is part of a hierarchy by year; all establishments categories at the lowest level are either by year, and where helpful these are also grouped by larger units e.g. decade & century. –

1887:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists of Christian belief. We already have a category for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 2081:

while the intersection of science and religion (or lack thereof) may be notable; there is no indication that Christian scientists do science differently than non-Christian scientists. So this category is improper.

1479:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists of Muslim belief. We already have a category for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 653:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists of agnostic view. We already have a category for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 1092:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists of Hindu belief. We already have a category for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 161:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists of atheist view. We already have a category for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 3380: 1702:

while the intersection of science and religion (or lack thereof) may be notable; there is no indication that Muslim scientists do science differently than non-Muslim scientists. So this category is improper.

2266:. (Non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation). No main article for scientists by belief. We already have a categories for scientists and categories for religious affiliation. - 1294:

while the intersection of science and religion (or lack thereof) may be notable; there is no indication that Hindu scientists do science differently that non-Hindu scientists. So this category is improper.

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while the intersection of science and religion (or lack thereof) may be notable; there is no indication that atheist scientists do science differently that theist scientists. So this category is improper.

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This is an "institutions accused but not shown guilty" category, which is a bad idea anyway; but besides that, it would potentitally require constant maintenance as investigations are started or closed.

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I have read about half of the entries in the 2014 category. I believe that all of the ones I have read are not proposed, but actually under construction and could open in 2014 and that is why I have

823:. I'm fine with an article on science and atheism but grouping people notable for scientific research based on what they believe about , G-d, immigration or tax rates is subjective and not defining. 350:. I'm fine with an article on science and atheism but grouping people notable for scientific research based on what they believe about , G-d, immigration or tax rates is subjective and not defining. 2939:

I will give you an example, how I think the word "place" can be used and you tell me if you think it is correct: Africa is a hot place. Italy is a beautiful place. The West Bank is a dry place.

3859: 4958:. Common usage goes both ways as to whether or not to use the "the, but so far I haven't seen a consensus in favor of including the "the" in front of the U.S. territory names in categories. 4417:

delete. I would be less sure if it were about 'found guilty' but in this case categorizing schools that are just 'under investigation' seems to be a bit preliminary for categorization.

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According to whom? In American English, what constitutes "proper" language is generally established by usage, not by a government-appointed language police, as with French in France.

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as proposed minus by year. You've hit on the fact that "by year" is not required for categories that are not subdivided by any other method (hence the non-existent categories like

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fit in here. Believing in UFOs is a belief. Similarly, belief in a round earth, young earth, gravity, big bang, and a whole bunch of things defined scientific debates for years.

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to match main article. As said at previously discussions, it should only contain people who became famous because they were the wife or girlfriend of a footballer (e.g.

2775:'s birthday, we can remember that the universe of "geographical locations" fits wholly within the universe of "places". Hence places is broader and less precise. Q.E.D. 4253:. The collective term, which is intended here, is " sport" in British English but "sports" in American English. Therefore whatever came first here is supposed to stay. 2954:

cannot substitute as you can with your example. Hence "geographical location" is more precise than "place", as "place" would be more precise than "thing" or "noun".

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did in the link, I posted at the top of this discussion: "Location connotes a physically defined and limited space. Place refers to the human/social idea of space"

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would be shorter and a better name so I would nor object to that option. If there is going to be an issue with use the 'the', then the better option might be to

3851: 2677:-- This is a parent container category, with grandchildren such as Society by city; society by continent. These are NOT individual places, but location types. 2892: 2880: 2621: 4365: 3129: 3091: 2717:, this is not written in stone. The reason why, I will write in another paragraph in the rationale, so please read above for my response to your comment. 2879:

precisely, and that's why categories that are in the nominated categories are by geographical location not by places as you propose. Categories such as

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Note that if deleted, all of the articles would still be in the proposed railway category tree from at lest 1 other category the articles are in.

3187: 3112: 3074: 21: 1557:-- Most of us do not manage to be completely objective, so that it may be useful to have something to indicate their possible pre-suppositions. 1170:-- Most of us do not manage to be completely objective, so that it may be useful to have something to indicate their possible pre-suppositions. 239:-- Most of us do not manage to be completely objective, so that it may be useful to have something to indicate their possible pre-suppositions. 4976: 4823: 4802: 4330: 4017: 3867: 3847: 3657: 3447:, of which they are an extreme example. The other sports mentioned are not as well paid. If we were to make a change at all, it might be to 4156: 4390:. Just because a list of such universities was released, it doesn't make this characteristic defining to the Universities in this category. 2062:

Actually one could argue that since we have a list that provides more detail we don't need the category. Nothing says that both must exist.

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Actually one could argue that since we have a list that provides more detail we don't need the category. Nothing says that both must exist.

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Actually one could argue that since we have a list that provides more detail we don't need the category. Nothing says that both must exist.

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at a minimum. There is strong philosophical discussion around agnosticism in relation to (a deterministic, causation-led) science.

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at a minimum. There is strong philosophical discussion around atheism in relation to (a deterministic, causation-led) science.

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discussions on this page), it makes sense to delete this one as well until there is a change in consensus on the broader point

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unnatural terms unless referencing a specific sport, as these are generic stubs, they do not reference a single sport. --

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to roll up to the "places" nomenclature, as presumably, nightclubs are places but are not geographical locations.

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That may be different if (and only if) they write about atheist topics. If not, they should be deleted as well.

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permitted if and when they're navigationally necessary because the volume of related content is pushing toward

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I see these as "place types" instead. Is "by location" any more non-individual in nature than "by place"?

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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temporary cat at best, non-defining at worst, subjective because "by whom" is wholly omitted.

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the topic is a notable one and that's all that really matters here in terms of inclusion.

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since notability is not inherited, so we say, no one should be solely notable for this.

2639:. When looking at the subcats, you will see, that they categorize by place. <br\: --> 4928:

is needed for proper English. Following SmokeyJoe's analysis from the Utah discussion,

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the category seems to contain what you'd expect. "Place" is nebulous; I would expect

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The topic of the subtype is the grouping, not a single instance, so they should be

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Except that in the stub category names, we use the singular - for example, we have

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political issues effect the willingness of people to openly express their beliefs.

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political issues effect the willingness of people to openly express their beliefs.

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political issues effect the willingness of people to openly express their beliefs.

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political issues effect the willingness of people to openly express their beliefs.

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on renaming/merging resulted in no consensus, but the current name seems to fail

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_ there are also the categories 'atheist philosophers'‎ and 'atheist writers‎'.--

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could be for a sport, or a competition, or a competitor, not specific sport. --

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preliminary (per Marcocapelle) but more fundamentally it shouldn't exist per

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