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:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 November 22 - Knowledge

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434:. Ultimately this and the military personnel should end up mainly as container categories. At that point we can consider whether they are serving a useful purpose. There is something odd about wanting to merge into a 16th century category and at the same time to delete a similar 19th century one. As an academic historian, I have 400:: "Merchant" is a category of businessperson who buy and sell (retail?) items, but there are a number of 17th and 18th century (and earlier) businesspeople who are not merchants, eg bankers, bakers, printers & publishers, shipbuilders and industrialists. And people of the Industrial Revolution in England/Britain like 338:
While there are categories for women by century, the equivalent categories for men by century generally contain only subcategories of men by ocupation for all-male occupations. However I doubt the need for some new 19th-century categories without subcategories which contain only articles about people
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the merchants -- A merchant at that period was primarily a person carrying on international trade, possibly also a wholesaler in domestic trade. This was a distinct economic activity within business people in general. The businesspeople category is currently well-populated. We cannot delete that
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of the English category and about the rename of the Dutch. Reason for the hesitation: before the 19th century the term "businesspeople" is anachronistic. In earlier centuries businesspeople are called merchants or traders so we may also keep the name of the earlier-century categories as "merchant"
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come across the term businessman in contemporary documents in a pre-19th century context. I do not study the 19th century much but suspect that businessman is largely a 20th century term. "Businesspeople" only arose from post-feminist inclusiveness. We should seek to move away from such modern
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but the articles would then need to be checked manually to remove those also in a country subcategory for the 19th-century (or merge to an existing country subcategory if not already in it) PS: I see the merchants by century category as a useful (non-diffused to country) category for a type of
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This nomination has two sets of totally unrelated categories, and the businessmen and male military personnel categories are different enough to make merge unwise, so I think we should just scrap this disparate nomination and consider the different categories
482:: The 19th century has the same businesspeople "by country" subcategories (c9) as the 20th/21st century apart from Albania. Possible other countries for "by century" categories as well as Dutch are Danish & Japanese? Perhaps the 326:
into subcategories by century non-diffused by nationality and put the English and Dutch subcategories into the existing category "Businesspeople" which is diffused by century and nationality. Categories by century exist for
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category for a topic that doesn't have the volume of content necessary to warrant one — of the five things in this category, three of them are just redirects to one of the other two, making this a pointless two-item
621:; so that Merchants by century categories are not diffused by nationality. The existing “businesspeople” category are diffused by nationality, and Dutch businesspeople in recent centuries can be added also. 42: 37: 404:(18c). Hence it seems simpler to have the post-medieval centuries from the 16th century by nationality as “businesspeople”. Some occupations used different terms initially (eg 331:
and several other nationalities (American, British, Canadian, French, German, Italian, Nigerian, Scottish), but subcategories by century should be created for for
594: 344: 312: 695:. The redirects do not have to be merged, because their targets are not incompatible with the category and are already categorized in that same category: see 610: 500: 292: 235: 347:. They will either be grossly incomplete (businesspeople and military personnel are largely male occupations) or if complete would be large and unwieldy. 618: 568:
It would definitely make sense to relist this discussion and split it as two different nominations or at least two different sections of one nomination.
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C16/17 categories. The nomination gives inconsistent pairs of merge targets for double upmerging, so I will instead do a triple upmerge where needed:
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and have them succeeded by the later-century "businesspeople" within the same tree. The parent category can still be called
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and also the subcategories for Merchants by century from the 16th century to the 18th century; but to upmerge the
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until the contents have been gone through and more appropriate categories supplied instead, in other words
573: 531: 466: 384: 124: 851: 810: 809:, per 79.51.44.60. Since the redirects point to one of the articles, I don't see value in merging them. 793: 674: 646: 247: 191: 163: 74: 551: 701: 94: 827: 758: 602: 440: 323: 139: 850:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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for psychiatrists and psychologists) but we categorise by the later name throughout.
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don't we run the risk that some biographies are completely lost as businesspeople?
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I have seperately renominated the following categories for upmerging/deletion:
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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unnecessary category layer to capture just two centuries (14th and 15th).
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should be dual upmerged to 16th or 17th century merchants and
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So this changes the proposal to merging rather than deleting
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has only few child categories, if we would plainly delete
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
597:. Hence re Merchants my proposals are (and have been) to 156:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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but I am neutral as to what we do with the redirects.
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seems obvious, but I'm a bit hesitant about the merge
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About deleting the male categories, as I notice that
138:-- not enough content to merit a separate category. 858:). No further edits should be made to this section. 681:). No further edits should be made to this section. 653:). No further edits should be made to this section. 198:). No further edits should be made to this section. 170:). No further edits should be made to this section. 81:). No further edits should be made to this section. 228:(not mentioned below, but appears appropriate); 595:Category:19th-century male military personnel 345:Category:19th-century male military personnel 313:Category:19th-century male military personnel 8: 611:Category:16th-century English businesspeople 501:Category:16th-century English businesspeople 293:Category:16th-century English businesspeople 236:Category:16th-century English businesspeople 619:Category:17th-century Dutch businesspeople 505:Category:17th-century Dutch businesspeople 486:articles (c800) could be bulk upmerged to 277:Category:17th-century Dutch businesspeople 218:Category:17th-century Dutch businesspeople 607:Category:16th-century English merchants 493:Category:16th-century English merchants 491:businessperson. The contents (few) of 289:Category:16th-century English merchants 232:Category:16th-century English merchants 242:. The two member pages are already in 615:Category:17th-century Dutch merchants 497:Category:17th-century Dutch merchants 273:Category:17th-century Dutch merchants 214:Category:17th-century Dutch merchants 7: 691:delete; merge the two articles into 488:Category:19th-century businesspeople 455:Category:19th-century businesspeople 106:Category:Late Middle Ages by century 60:Category:Late Middle Ages by century 18:Knowledge:Categories for discussion 377:Category:Businesspeople by century 28: 688:The result of the discussion was: 591:Category:19th-century businessmen 524:Category:19th-century businessmen 484:Category:19th-century businessmen 459:Category:19th-century businessmen 439:anachronisms, not towards them. 402:Richard Griffiths (industrialist) 366:, merging the English categories 341:Category:19th-century businessmen 309:Category:19th-century businessmen 205:The result of the discussion was: 88:The result of the discussion was: 788:, as a channel of the river. -- 368:and deleting the male categories 805:move the actual articles in to 714:Category:Rivière des Mille Îles 660:Category:Rivière des Mille Îles 329:Category:English businesspeople 297:Category:16th-century merchants 240:Category:16th-century merchants 226:Category:17th-century merchants 117:Nominator's rationale: upmerge 1: 836:10:34, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 819:01:00, 23 November 2015 (UTC) 807:Category:Saint Lawrence River 798:05:49, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 786:Category:Saint Lawrence River 775:05:08, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 705:03:42, 30 November 2015 (UTC) 693:Category:Saint Lawrence River 471:07:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC) 449:10:32, 26 November 2015 (UTC) 418:04:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC) 389:16:33, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 357:10:22, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 333:Category:Dutch businesspeople 148:15:52, 29 November 2015 (UTC) 129:20:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC) 98:03:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC) 30: 631:10:47, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 578:21:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC) 560:08:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC) 536:21:32, 1 December 2015 (UTC) 261:21:31, 18 January 2016 (UTC) 875: 306:Propose deleting/upmerging 270:Propose renaming/upmerging 244:Category:English merchants 110:Category:Late Middle Ages 847:Please do not modify it. 670:Please do not modify it. 642:Please do not modify it. 281:Category:Dutch merchants 222:Category:Dutch merchants 187:Please do not modify it. 159:Please do not modify it. 70:Please do not modify it. 335:up to the 21st century. 750:Nominator's rationale: 526:. I'm okay with that. 320:Nominator's rationale: 603:Category:Merchants 369: 324:Category:Merchants 316: 552:John Pack Lambert 547:Procedural oppose 427:Keep and populate 367: 303: 286:Propose upmerging 103:Propose upmerging 51: 50: 866: 849: 811:RevelationDirect 743: 742: 710:Propose deleting 672: 644: 254: 189: 161: 72: 47: 36: 31: 874: 873: 869: 868: 867: 865: 864: 863: 862: 856:deletion review 845: 803:Selective Merge 716: 712: 702:Good Ol’factory 679:deletion review 668: 662: 657: 651:deletion review 640: 364:Partial support 322:This will make 252: 196:deletion review 185: 179: 174: 168:deletion review 157: 95:Good Ol’factory 79:deletion review 68: 62: 57: 52: 45: 34: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 872: 870: 861: 860: 840: 839: 838: 821: 800: 778: 777: 747: 746: 745: 744: 684: 683: 663: 661: 658: 656: 655: 635: 634: 633: 583: 582: 581: 580: 563: 562: 543: 542: 541: 540: 539: 538: 517: 516: 474: 473: 451: 423: 422: 421: 420: 392: 391: 360: 359: 336: 317: 301: 300: 299: 283: 264: 263: 229: 211: 201: 200: 180: 178: 175: 173: 172: 152: 151: 150: 132: 131: 114: 113: 112: 84: 83: 63: 61: 58: 56: 53: 49: 48: 40: 29: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 871: 859: 857: 853: 848: 842: 841: 837: 833: 829: 828:Peterkingiron 825: 822: 820: 816: 812: 808: 804: 801: 799: 795: 791: 787: 783: 780: 779: 776: 772: 768: 764: 760: 755: 751: 748: 740: 736: 732: 728: 724: 720: 715: 711: 708: 707: 706: 703: 700: 698: 694: 689: 686: 685: 682: 680: 676: 671: 665: 664: 659: 654: 652: 648: 643: 637: 636: 632: 628: 624: 620: 616: 612: 608: 604: 601:the category 600: 596: 592: 588: 585: 584: 579: 575: 571: 567: 566: 565: 564: 561: 557: 553: 550:individually. 548: 545: 544: 537: 533: 529: 525: 521: 520: 519: 518: 514: 510: 506: 502: 498: 494: 489: 485: 481: 478: 477: 476: 475: 472: 468: 464: 460: 456: 452: 450: 446: 442: 441:Peterkingiron 437: 433: 428: 425: 424: 419: 415: 411: 407: 403: 399: 396: 395: 394: 393: 390: 386: 382: 378: 373: 365: 362: 361: 358: 354: 350: 346: 342: 337: 334: 330: 325: 321: 318: 314: 310: 307: 302: 298: 294: 290: 287: 284: 282: 278: 274: 271: 268: 267: 266: 265: 262: 259: 256: 255: 249: 245: 241: 237: 233: 230: 227: 223: 219: 215: 212: 209: 206: 203: 202: 199: 197: 193: 188: 182: 181: 176: 171: 169: 165: 160: 154: 153: 149: 145: 141: 140:Peterkingiron 137: 134: 133: 130: 126: 122: 118: 115: 111: 107: 104: 101: 100: 99: 96: 92: 89: 86: 85: 82: 80: 76: 71: 65: 64: 59: 54: 44: 41: 39: 33: 32: 23: 19: 846: 843: 823: 802: 781: 762: 752:Unnecessary 749: 709: 690: 687: 669: 666: 641: 638: 598: 586: 570:Marcocapelle 546: 528:Marcocapelle 479: 463:Marcocapelle 435: 431: 426: 397: 381:Marcocapelle 371: 363: 319: 305: 285: 269: 250: 207: 204: 186: 183: 158: 155: 135: 121:Marcocapelle 116: 102: 90: 87: 69: 66: 790:70.51.44.60 759:WP:SMALLCAT 55:November 22 43:November 23 38:November 21 852:talk page 784:into the 754:eponymous 675:talk page 647:talk page 587:Comments: 372:direction 248:Fayenatic 192:talk page 177:Merchants 164:talk page 75:talk page 854:or in a 697:WP:CAT-R 677:or in a 649:or in a 480:Comments 406:Alienist 398:Comments 194:or in a 166:or in a 77:or in a 20:‎ | 824:I agree 767:Bearcat 727:history 623:Hugo999 509:Hugo999 432:diffuse 410:Hugo999 349:Hugo999 208:upmerge 763:Delete 599:retain 782:Merge 735:watch 731:links 436:never 258:ondon 136:Merge 91:merge 46:: --> 16:< 832:talk 815:talk 794:talk 771:talk 739:logs 723:talk 719:edit 627:talk 613:and 593:and 574:talk 556:talk 532:talk 513:talk 503:and 495:and 467:talk 445:talk 414:talk 385:talk 353:talk 311:and 295:and 279:and 246:. – 224:and 144:talk 125:talk 35:< 617:to 609:to 343:or 339:eg 291:to 275:to 234:to 216:to 108:to 22:Log 834:) 817:) 796:) 773:) 765:. 761:. 737:| 733:| 729:| 725:| 721:| 629:) 576:) 558:) 534:) 507:. 469:) 447:) 416:) 387:) 379:. 355:) 304:* 238:, 220:, 146:) 127:) 93:. 830:( 813:( 792:( 769:( 741:) 717:( 699:. 625:( 572:( 554:( 530:( 515:) 511:( 465:( 443:( 412:( 383:( 351:( 315:. 253:L 142:( 123:(

Index

Knowledge:Categories for discussion
Log
November 21
November 23
talk page
deletion review
Good Ol’factory
03:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Category:Late Middle Ages by century
Category:Late Middle Ages
Marcocapelle
talk
20:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Peterkingiron
talk
15:52, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
talk page
deletion review
talk page
deletion review
Category:17th-century Dutch merchants
Category:17th-century Dutch businesspeople
Category:Dutch merchants
Category:17th-century merchants
Category:16th-century English merchants
Category:16th-century English businesspeople
Category:16th-century merchants
Category:English merchants
Fayenatic
L

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