Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 21

5353:, which would contain (at a rough estimate) around one million stub articles? Sure, they could use the not always reliable external intersect tools. If they're up and running, and if they're working properly. Also, the maintenance overhead is phenomenally lower categorising stubs in this way than it would be if they were not - it enables stub sorters to check other things about individual stub types as they go. Sure, you can't expect stub sorters to be experts in everything, but we have a lot of stub sorters, and between us we cover a large number of areas of expertise. I generally deal with New Zealand geography because I do know a lot about it. There will be stub sorters who are similarly versed in French geography, and can edit or further deal with articles as they go. Furthermore, as PanchoS points out, a lot of new editors or those unfamiliar with Knowledge (XXG)'s systems put stub templates on articles without also putting permanent categories on them. As such, there is no intersection because there is no permcat. 4774:

ethnic group), cultural (those who prefer watercolors to oils form a single ethnic group), or national (all US citizens are a single ethnic group). Ethnicity is "primarily" inherited according to WP's article, but its not exclusively so. Barack Obama identifies as African American, although neither of his parents had that ethnicity; do adopted kids have the ethnicity of their birth parents or their adoptive ones or some different one entirely, and then we have the cases where people self-identify as a particular ethnicity without any inheritance (perhaps because of the the cultural or social aspects above, or perhaps for some unknown reason; dress the part, do your hair the right way and not "pass", but actually adopt the ethnic identity) - apparently defining and changing one's ethnicity is much like adopting or changing one's hairstyle, making the entire category as meaningless.

5349:- but I would definitely NOT follow DexDor's suggestion of merging up as far as the national level, for numerous reasons, the most important of which would be the likelihood that the parent category would balloon to an unnecessary size and swamp those articles which require the more generic stub template. You are right that "only editors are interested in finding stubs" - it is for this very reason that such fine-grained categories exist and are kept at manageable levels. Consider the extreme case. You have an editor who wants to find small articles on Hauts-de-France to edit. Which is easier, to find them in a specific stub category for that reason or (if your suggestion became the precedent) find them in 4955:-- This is a well populated category dealing with people-groups that are not nationalities. Many counties (including US) have ethnic minorities, which are extremely defining of those people: members of native American tribes in US; First Nations in Canada; Basques in Spain and France; Kachin and Rohinga in Burma; Armenians in Turkey, Syria, and Iran; etc; etc. In some cases, members of a profession from an ethnic minority are few and they get upmerged to people and profession, bit that does not invalidate the ethnic scheme. Most of the world is not a melting pot, which is why we have ethnic categories. 2151:, my main point is that (when we are talking about areas rather than points) the words "region" and "location" are pretty much synonymous (if you think there is a significant difference then please explain). The category tree seems to (with no obvious pattern) use a mixture of "location" and "region" - e.g. in some places there's a by-region category under a by-location category and in other places there's a by-location category under a by-region category. Hence, this CFD isn't dismantling a by-region category tree, but removing pointless complexity from the by-region/by-location category tree. 643:-- These biota categories are a nightmare. A continental category is unsatisfactory because it covers too much - from temperate South Africa, through the tropics, Sahel, and south Mediterranean littoral. Fauna and flora distributions are driven by climate, not man-made political boundaries. I would suggest that we should invite a relevant project to come up with a geographic classification scheme that can be applied generally. 1992:-- For biota, countries do not work well as many species have a range that straddles boundaries. Conversely, continents are too big. Here we have a category for Central and a list articles for the Caribbean. Actually, I like the concept of region, but this will need to be defined as a subcontinental mesoregion in a headnote, so that we do not get "rodents of Sinai", which one response to another recent discussion would imply. 335:) have upmerged categories for individual countries into categories for regions (Middle East and North Africa) - categorizing species by countries inevitably leads to some species being categorized for a large number of small countries (e.g. Kuwait). The Egypt category was not included in those discussions as Egypt overlaps both regions. All of the articles currently in the Egypt category (apart from the list) are also in 1375:-- (probably voted above) -- I have no problem with merging categories where the churches have merged. However, at earlier periods, there will be people who are defined by membership of denomination A, and others (in strong opposition to them) who belonged to denomination B. It is not appropriate to put those who were hostile to each other into a single category, as if they were all the best of buddies. 597:: It may be appropriate to (clarify the relationship between those categories and) move some articles between them, but (for the moment) I'm concentrating more on by-country categorization because it leads to all sorts of problems - categories for very small jurisdictions, categorizing an animal in of-France (and hence in of-Europe) because it is found on a Pacific island that belongs to France etc. 5030: 5241:

happened to come by a stub, without being very interested, would you say: Oh, let me make an intersection to see what's in there? I guess you wouldn't. We're not yet at semantic categorization and on-the-fly intersecting, and we still have a long way to go there, and many things to figure out, so we clearly shouldn't start unbuilding our category tree. --

860:) aren't specifically about the UK (as they would be if the species were endemic to the UK) - and anyway we're moving away from categorizing by country (which inevitably leads to categories for Jersey, Andorra etc) to categorizing by larger regions (a Great Britain or British Isles category wouldn't be quite so bad). Example previous CFD: 6656:-- WE have removed categorisation of universities by association-membership and should not allow it here. However, we need to check that all are in an appropriate School category (unless there is a good reason why not). I suspect that this concerns what used to be called the Headmasters Confernece, which covered British Public Schools. 5976:" is really "a thing". This appears to be just an attempt to create an intersection of religion and political viewpoint, or perhaps to carve out Mormons from the general "Christian socialists" category tree. Mormons who are also Christian socialists are better described as Christian socialists, not Mormon socialists. 6057:. Mormons generally reject the comparison of the United Order to socialism, and there's certainly no organized movement that self-identifies as "Mormon socialism". Mormon scripture has some language that in a modern sense sounds pretty socialistic, but I fear that this category is bordering on the neologistic. 2439:; more importantly, (ii) many organisms have a range which is regional rather than national, and over the last couple of years many CFD decisions have upmerged "Foo of country" categories to the regional level, because it created category-clutter to categorise e.g. a bird by every country in which it is found. 1548:"by-region" and "by-location" are (if not synonyms) so close in meaning (in this context, which is about areas rather than points) that any distinction between them is unclear. None of the 2 categories I linked or the 2 categories you linked contain any category text so they are not "self-explaining". 2129:

are much closer to South America. We often put the Caribbean in the North America category – I also do – but if more specific categories already exist, we shouldn't delete it. And if a by-region container exists, we should embrace it rather than dismantling it here and there. I'm not going to cry big

4796:

be applied to people. And "ghettoizing" is highly value-laden. You go on to question the validity of ethnicity (correct me if I am misinterpreting you). Does it matter if ethnicity is applied where insubstantial? What matters is what the abundance of good quality sources tell us about this dimension

4690:

Turkish. Yes, this argument is regularly perused by xenophobes, but denying the complexity of reality doesn't do any good either. (The opposite exists just as well: people born in Germany, holding only a Turkish passport, who neither speak proper Turkish nor have ever identified with being Turkish.)

4682:

characteristic and may be actually more defining than someone's nationality, which is regularly approximated by citizenship. This is mostly the case for ethnic groups with a substantial diaspora (most certainly Jews, but also Armenians or Turkish), those lacking their own nation-state (such as Kurds

5954:

It is not demonstrated that this category exists. Some Mormon practices are at times called "socialist" but the fact that they have been advocated from a non-governmental standpoint makes this categorization problematic. The one person in this category, is not based on what is said about him in the

4885:

is defensible. And I don't see the offense or ghettoization in categorizing this way even in the case in which a "List" article exists. It is not demeaning. It is one more means of navigation. A reader can look the contents of such a Category and navigate to an article that seems as though it might

1697:

as per the above. Yes, the British Isles aren't technically a country, but we have to balance semantics versus sensible categorization. An extra subcat tree just for the British Isles doesn't make much sense. I agree that the by-location discussion is broader and should be handled in another nom. ~

1495:

The British Isles are a proper sub-continental mesoregion, so this is a valid container category, small but with sufficient room for expansion. More often than not, it will be a good idea to categorize species by region rather than by country, so I'm inclined to keep the per-region container, which

4210:

This is likely going to be big, but here goes: Ethnicity is a non-defining characteristic for the vast majority of biographies (i.e. not a key trait they are noted for) on Knowledge (XXG). Even for any subjects where it is defining, it can easily be discussed within the article body. This category

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national experiences. Unlike most other social groups, ethnicity is primarily an inherited status" (emphasis added) So common language (Spanish speakers form a single ethnic group), ancestry (the descendants of Queen Victoria form a single ethnic group), social (the country club set form a single

4554:

Where does it say ethnicity in standard biographic details; nationality is definable (what passport do you carry?), ethnicity is both undefinable and not standard. What other encyclopedia says Joe Bleau was a French-American pilot, or Jane Do was a Korean-American physician? no where and for good

1862:

Central America is a proper transcontinental mesoregion, so this is a valid container category, small but with sufficient room for expansion. More often than not, it will be a good idea to categorize species by region rather than by country, so I'm inclined to keep the per-region container, which

4846:

there's no Kven doctors, Kven lawyers, Kven anything. Purely ethnic categorization and thence ghettoizing - like that's what this person is about - let's not look beyond his or her ethnicity because we needn't because WP has categorized them elaborately than South Africa's apartheid government.

5240:

I wouldn't merge up to the France level. Sure stub categories are for editors, but we shouldn't mistake editors for experts or freaks like us. How can ordinary people (IP users, occasional editors) make an intersection where there is no category? Secondly, even as an experienced editor: if you

5259:

I don't understand what you mean by "where there is no category" or "make an intersection to see what's in ". Category intersection has (using various tools) been available for several years - I've used it a lot (albeit mainly for namespace-category intersection rather than category-category

6071:

the Bible, which I understand the LDS movement has adopted as scripture, contains items that are "socialist" in some viewpoints doesn't make categorizing people on the intersection of their religious beliefs and political beliefs a good idea, regardless of how bound up they may be together.

4819:

by ethnicity, but will also be categorized by nationality, profession, and many other things. More importantly, we're usually not intersecting ethnicity with deeper levels of other facets like profession. So the main category a biography article might be excluded from, simply doesn't exist.

878:: How different is the species list in the British Isles from those in mainland Europe? While you're right about the basic consensus of the stated discussion, we've had others where we decided to keep Madagascar as a separate category because it's a separate landmass with its own animals. 4433:

and make huge and frankly useless categories. But I sincerely doubt that this is defining. Defining traits for a biographical article are his/her/its time period, descent, ethnicity, nationality, etc. These actually provide the necessary context. We currently have 178 subcategories of

1657:. The sole content concerns British Isles. I agree that is two countries, but I do not think that matters unduly, save perhaps to pedants. Nevertheless, we are (probably) merging another biota category to a Europe one, so that I am unsure whether the one sub-cat should survive. 6487:

membership in a particular association is not defining to a school. Due to various factors they will change association, and many of the schools have most of their cumulative history before this organization was formed. This sort of thing is much better covered by lists than

2490:); it's about combining some by-location and by-region container categories (to remove unnecessary complexity from the category structure). Regarding by-country categorization of species: The individual country categories (e.g. Spiders of Monaco) are (slowly) being deleted. 515:, so it's hard to call that last merge a success story. Shame on me, though – I should have looked into a sample of individual species articles earlier, not now. Splitting that category again at a later point will be more work than going more into details during the 4398:

single category that exists on Knowledge (XXG), only those that involve ethnicity. It also is nowhere close to the most defining trait people have. Things like their occupations and work are far more defining than ethnic background. Let's not kid ourselves.

917:-- Biota in UK are generally a subset of those in Europe, so that the answer is "not much". There is a clear boundary within Indonesia between an Australasian and an Asian species set. Similarly Madagascar has a different fauna from Africa. Accordingly, 2359:

hierarchy? Well, maybe you would; but as long as such regional fauna categories exist, and there is more than one regional category for a particular classification of animals, it makes sense to me to collect such categories in a "by region" structure. –

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to rename. While other stuff does exist and uniformity is desirable in categorization, there is enough opposition here to that entire category scheme that we really need a broader discussion about the whole tree. I encourage someone to create that. ~

2219:

The difference is that "location" usually contains categories by continent and by country; if there are any with sub-continental, sub-national or sub-oceanic coverage, these are "regions" in the category structure. This is used all the way through

4685:

Some fellow liberals and lefties won't like it, but while, for example, ethnic Turks who gave up their Turkish passport to acquire the German one, clearly are Germans, they might still be Turkish by their social identity, and might even still be

710:

Note: IMO straight deletion is preferable to merging (see my and Dimadick's comments above), but I would prefer this to be closed as merge rather than as NC/keep as any incorrect categorization caused by a merge could be fixed by normal editing.

896:

Madagascar split from the Indian peninsula around 88 million years ago, allowing native plants and animals to evolve in relative isolation. Consequently, Madagascar is a biodiversity hotspot; over 90% of its wildlife is found nowhere else on

5955:

article a socialist at all. He is a sociologist who studies the family and the impact of work on it. Nothing in the article really says anything about his personal philosophical views. This is just far too narrow a category to be useful.

1618:

I probably wouldn't object to that (especially as we may be able to delete the by-country category at some point in future), but shouldn't that really be a separate CFD discussion (in which the by-location category is CFD-tagged)?

1004:

the South African category and remove it from the above. Taking this discussion together with the one on 22 June, there is not after all a consensus to mesh all Reformed Christians in one country together, which necessitates

6597:, and the longer name is a former name of the organization. I have brought it here rather than speedy rename in case someone wants to make a case for deletion; I'm not sure how defining this is for the member schools. 5275:

Therer has been a category intersection tool, but it's outside of Knowledge (XXG) - it's on the Tool Server, which is down some times. It's not reliable enough for us to say "If youy want an intersection, try there".

1514:

If you think we need both by-region and by-location categories (as well as, for the moment at least, by-country categories) then can you explain what the difference is between a by-location and a by-region category?

1142:

actually includes a couple of denominations, but we have an umbrella article, and the category can match that.) Also, we don't normally split up denominational membership by nationality - we don't, for example, have

5495:

Some of these articles are not about individual airlines, but about products offered by airlines. Although I created the category, C2E does not apply because it has been more than six months since this was created.

6470:-- WE have removed categorisation of universities by association-membership and should not allow it here. However, we need to check that all are in a Prep School category (unless there is a good reason why not). 4264:

My concern here is that the impact of this actual nomination wouldn't remove any ethnicity categories from actual biography articles though (your stated goal), it would just orphan all the subcategories under it.

4760:

ethnicity is not static, not definable with any certainty, and is subject to interpretation, as such it's trivial and it's ghettoizing when applied to people. Ethnicity is hopelessly vague: Take WP's article on

4442:. They belong to well established category trees which actually help in researching a topic or era. Who could possibly want to research the topic "physician" with a category which does not distinguish between 4618:

for any subjects where it is defining, but that is definitely a small minority of pages and could never possibly hope to even come close to the number of instances where it's irrelevant to one's notability.

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Agree with PanchoS, even more after this second subcategory has been added. If merged the original nomination is better, but in case of flora and fauna articles it's very common to categorize by region.

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of people. The sources are not only telling us what they feel objectively applies but also what they feel is noteworthy. If they felt that ethnicity were "trivial" wouldn't they simply not mention it?

4504:

I do not see anything contradicting my reasoning there. It states that we categorize by "standard biographical details: year of birth, year of death and nationality". Have you actually read the page?

5218:. Hence, we don't need such fine-grained stub categories (which sometimes appear to be attempting to shadow every normal category with a category for stubs) with an inevitable maintenance overhead. 3289:

as BC and AD are common usage elsewhere. Note, Jesus was a historical figure who is mention in the Talmud, but non-Messianic Jews will deny him the title of Christ or Lord, inherent in BC and AD.

6673:

being in this organization is not defining to the schools. Also, from the name it appears that the head of the school, and not the school itself, is a member, and so the naming is just plain wrong.

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The above objections sound like WP:Otherstuffexists. I know that this is not the standard, but i think that the standard is wrong per my argument above. Pushing a big boulder up the hill I know.

2052:. This gets rid of the small subcat tree while being fully correct from a classification standpoint. As for the broader question of upmerging "location", that can be handled in another nom. ~ 5037: 583: 3676:

is right about the proper format. Problem is that the other categories were also created by Native Dutch speakers or copied from these. The following examples were all constructed correctly:

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Sorry to say, but IMO that's even (a bit) worse than the original nomination. :/ IMO the whole nomination doesn't improve anything, but clearly the least disruptive merge would be the one

4376:

Not defining? This sounds like a proposal to delete every category that Knowledge (XXG) has, since nothing tends to be more defining than ethnicity. What else are these people noted for?

661:

Why do you think a continental category "covers too much"? (bearing in mind that the purpose of categories is to categorize - not to attempt to encode the map of a species distribution).

3874:, which has a stronger claim on the naming conventions than unrelated "by province in the Netherlands" categories, is particularly convincing and well-founded in typical CfD outcomes. ~ 2191:

I (and Marcocapelle - see above) would probably support such an upmerge of the by-location category, but this discussion is about the by-region category (which also has only 2 members).

5210:

per nom, but I would also go further and merge up to the France level - only editors are interested in finding stubs and they can look for articles at the intersection of (for example)

2443:

Also, they allow flexibility in navigation; some people's interest will be in a smaller area than a continent, especially in such a huge and diverse case as Asia. As for abolishing the

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We have been deleting (e.g. by upmerge) birds-by-country categories as it causes far too many categories on some pages (did you look at the CFDs linked in the nomination?) - creating

5260:

intersection, but it's the same tools) and it provides a general way to find pages on topic X that are in maintenance category Y (of which stubs are an example). I've put a link at

4070: 4066: 3720: 3716: 1338: 1080: 508: 350: 42: 37: 4873:. Those articles do not mention notable people of Chechen and Kven origin. That is because their focus is on the ethnicity, rather than notable people of that ethnicity. We do have 1107: 4303: 3934:

In English the grammatical structure permits a word order from left to right that goes from general to more specific to even more specific. This is good logic and good word order.

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In English the grammatical structure permits a word order from left to right that goes from general to more specific to even more specific. This is good logic and good word order.

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O_O didn't see that coming. Not sure whether village pump could delete this entire tree and its sub-categories, though tagging them all for one nomination would take forever.

6035:

Socialist movement rather than being – IMHO acceptable – intersections of Christian denomination with Christian Socialism. And there's a good point to carve out Mormons from

1306: 1113: 376:. Upmerging may result in exclusively African species being added to a Middle Eastern category or species which can only be found in the Sinai added to the African category. 4769:

redirects) which says in the lead: "An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on common language, ancestral, social, cultural,

3781:- Example: "Throw grandmother over the fence some flowers." Yes we can write these things either way, but I think we should bow to clarity in this. The categories should be 3063:

When relevant articles are missing from categories, it means the categories are underpopulated. And in this case "CE"/"AD" is irrelevant. We have many BC categories such as

394:

I'm not proposing any upmerge - there are only 3 species articles currently in this category that are not already in both the Middle East and Africa categories and these (

3752: 511:. It however turned out that most birds (at least all of those I just picked randomly) are now only categorized in a single, obviously unnecessarily large and unspecific 2894: 1314: 1310: 4429:

Are you kidding? That someone is a doctor, a general, a mob boss, or a writer hardly provides enough material for categorization. We could add every single quack to

5681:

This category currently contains just one article (that is in plenty of more suitable categories) and has no parent categories (so it has no navigational purpose).

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Unnecessary category (it contains just one subcategory). It's unclear what (if any) distinction there is between a by-location category and a by-region category.

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You're certainly right – we don't need cat intersection tools here. Unsure, if some birds might have already been purged, or whether I grossly slipped up. Anyway

5308: 5289: 6375:. I have brought it here rather than speedy rename in case someone wants to make a case for deletion; I'm not sure how defining this is for the member schools. 1197: 1119: 997: 6027:

says there was a first attempt of Mormon Socialism in 1831, suggesting there might have been more of it. Also, I'm not sure all of the denominations listed in

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Unnecessary category (it contains just one article). It's unclear what (if any) distinction there is between a by-location category and a by-region category.

5817: 6361: 4450:(a Korean-American physician who finances research in extending human longevity)? Their occupation is the same, the era and context are entirely different. 1929:

isn't the category being discussed here (and hence isn't CFD-tagged). I suggest you (!vote and) let this discussion complete before proposing that upmerge.

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I agree though, that a distinction between Sinai Peninsula and mainland Egypt would probably turn out unreasonably specific, and the existing categories

21: 4881:. It is not inconceivable that we could have an article on "List of Kven people". But in the absence of an article "List of Kven people" it seems that 1041: 5178: 5315:

contains over a million. And even some of these smaller maintenance categories have some for of differentiation by topic in order to assist editors (

2032:, since Central America and the Caribbean are sub-sections of North America. I'm guessing everyone can get behind this, so pinging all participants: 5105: 1279: 1275: 5264:

to show one way to generate a list of the stubs in that category. Note: There's also the tagging of article (talk) pages as stubs by wikiprojects.

3012:

Normally I wouldn't bother with the CE/AD BC/BCE stuff but, with Jewish topics, CE and BCE are consistently used in any recent scholarly articles.

6372: 5168: 4588:, ethnicity isn't a defining characteristic for everyone, but it is defining for people who belong to specific well-sourced ethnic groups such as 2775: 2766: 2757: 2601: 1072: 1032: 993: 4522:

Of course I have, or I wouldn't have linked it here. I'm specifically talking about the "Categorize by defining characteristics" part which says

4256: 1128: 3764: 3428: 3403: 3377: 3331:. I think I would also support just switching all categories to BCE in the interests of consistency. Redirects can be kept on the BC versions. 2987: 2961: 2793: 2784: 2771: 2762: 2753: 2597: 2452: 2365: 2356: 2310: 2256: 2229: 1967: 1564: 1014: 5773:. In a next step, when the two quoted articles are harmonized with each other we can also rename one of the two involved categories speedily. 17: 6183: 5809: 3314:

enables to apply this terminology (for starters) to the Judaism articles and directories but I would also support applying across the board.

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You seemed to be suggesting a policy change so I thought VP might be a good spot. In any case, you're getting plenty of feedback here. (-:

2431:

There is more than that. The regional categories are required for two reasons: (i) there are articles covering supra-national regions, e.g.

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now holds a second subcategory (which I created and populated yesterday), and more should be introduced to properly cover biota by relevant

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This should be a no brainer. Articles that are specifically about Jews should not be labeled according to Christian theological dates. -

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be in (especially where, as is the case here, the number of articles is very small) it's better to look at the article text (and any map).

2982:

Thank you for listing the categories to be renamed. I have added 12th-century, stated the target names, and tagged the category pages. –

752:... this category should have some action that requires manual changes. Once the manual work is completed, this category will be deleted. 4285: 5994: 3998: 3897: 6179: 4435: 2352: 2302: 1531: 1259: 1236: 6583: 6223:

cows in lit to cattle in lit, as the cat creator i wish to apologise for using the narrow feminine term rather then the broader one.

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by denomination. "Dutch Reformed Church" is a specific denomination, not a Christian tradition. It's like the difference between "

127: 6415:. I looked at a random 10 or so articles, none of which mentioned IAPS; so this categorisation is dependent upon extrinsic info. 5481: 5097: 2748: 2739: 2730: 2721: 2712: 2703: 2694: 2685: 2676: 2663: 2654: 2612: 2248: 2413:

It just doesn't make much sense. Why do we need the parallel categorization? I'd do away with the "By countries" one as well. ~

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structure, to insist on navigating only via the hierarchy of continents, I very much doubt that that would gain consensus. –

2444: 1288: 1214: 1153: 1089: 594: 534: 438: 206: 118: 5147: 4922:, to pick one example, would be ghettoized, if he was only categorized as a "Kven chef". But in fact he's categorized as a 469: 426: 6192: 6036: 6028: 5288:

Most maintenance categories aren't subcategorized by topics. So, for example, an editor looking for articles about France

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as per nom. I'll conduct these merges later today after consulting with another editor about how to go about the merge. ~

2856: 2847: 2838: 2829: 2820: 2811: 2802: 2436: 2298: 1271: 4023: 3037:, for example, does not. Also, it's a bit POVish to say these are "Judaism"-related as the people in the category, (e.g. 1170:

American members who lived/remained in the faith after the RCA split from the mother church in 1819, would also go under

5813: 4171: 2852: 2843: 2834: 2825: 2816: 2807: 2798: 2221: 2170: 1959: 1926: 1900: 1835: 1592: 1527: 1468: 846: 6702: 6545: 6517: 6323: 6295: 6146: 6118: 5912: 5884: 5754: 5726: 5614: 5586: 5413: 5385: 5061: 5014: 4284:- deleting the top category of a tree like this doesn't delete the whole tree. I suggest you try a smaller chunk (e.g. 4131: 4103: 3851: 3823: 3505: 3477: 2554: 2526: 1810: 1782: 1432: 1404: 1144: 978: 950: 810: 782: 546: 487: 260: 232: 78: 6188: 5835: 5659: 5101: 3990: 3609:

Did you create one of the two similar categories yourself? Wouldn't it be misleading to provide nonstandard examples?

3134: 1694: 1654: 1447:. There have been a few proposals made, but each has been met with enough opposition so the status quo will remain. -- 434: 5651: 1825:. There have been a few proposals made, but each has been met with enough opposition so the status quo will remain. 6682: 6665: 6648: 6631: 6627: 6601: 6571: 6497: 6479: 6462: 6445: 6441: 6424: 6403: 6379: 6349: 6275: 6257: 6232: 6213: 6165: 6098: 6081: 6061: 6048: 5980: 5964: 5936: 5864: 5847: 5824: 5782: 5706: 5687: 5633: 5566: 5562: 5533: 5529: 5507: 5469: 5465: 5443: 5365: 5331: 5298: 5283: 5270: 5250: 5224: 5201: 5087: 4992: 4964: 4939: 4895: 4856: 4829: 4806: 4783: 4746: 4728: 4700: 4656: 4638: 4605: 4564: 4545: 4513: 4495: 4459: 4418: 4385: 4360: 4356: 4339: 4315: 4311: 4294: 4274: 4270: 4234: 4162: 4083: 4056: 4035: 4010: 3980: 3957: 3943: 3924: 3885: 3803: 3773: 3770: 3733: 3708: 3662: 3643: 3618: 3604: 3590: 3571: 3532: 3457: 3437: 3434: 3412: 3409: 3386: 3383: 3364: 3335: 3323: 3298: 3277: 3260: 3243: 3220: 3216: 3199: 3181: 3160: 3143: 3119: 3103: 3080: 3055: 3021: 3017: 2996: 2993: 2970: 2967: 2943: 2923: 2906: 2648: 2632: 2589: 2496: 2461: 2458: 2424: 2374: 2371: 2339: 2319: 2316: 2269: 2260: 2238: 2235: 2197: 2186: 2157: 2139: 2122: 2112: 2101: 2086: 2063: 2016: 2001: 1976: 1973: 1949: 1935: 1917: 1887: 1872: 1851: 1831: 1758: 1739: 1723: 1709: 1681: 1666: 1639: 1625: 1609: 1573: 1570: 1554: 1543: 1521: 1505: 1484: 1464: 1456: 1384: 1367: 1350: 1326: 1296: 1249: 1222: 1183: 1179: 1161: 1097: 1023: 1020: 930: 905: 885: 870: 834: 760: 745: 717: 705: 688: 667: 652: 625: 603: 558: 478: 458: 412: 385: 358: 279: 212: 185: 166: 109: 4188: 297: 6678: 6493: 5960: 5126: 4071:

Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 29 § Category:Sportspeople by province in the Netherlands

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 29 § Category:Sportspeople by province in the Netherlands

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I have added an explanation of this in the discussion below, and added a header template to the category page. –

1363: 684: 6412: 6390: 5946: 5642: 4252: 2956:. I agree that they should be tagged and listed if the intention is to rename them all after this discussion. – 6644: 6458: 6397:). Schools are also in plenty of more appropriate categories that form a comprehensive categorization scheme. 6077: 5517: 5429: 5261: 5211: 4923: 4852: 4779: 4560: 3968: 3871: 3064: 2949: 2487: 2325: 1174:. I'm wondering if the American one is worth keeping for continuity there but I definitely support the others. 857: 590: 530: 526: 446: 340: 6018: 6014: 6003: 5999: 542: 288: 6661: 6475: 6228: 5860: 5702: 4960: 4918:

is not further subcategorized by profession etc, and the same holds for most other categories by ethnicity.

4835: 3939: 3658: 3586: 3372:: the category pages were not tagged until today, so this discussion needs to be left open until 11 July. – 3294: 3251:

Articles that are specifically about Jews should not be labeled according to Christian theological dates. --

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 29 § Category:People by province in the Netherlands

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 29 § Category:People by province in the Netherlands

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consistency is a good thing, but not when it leads us to impose a system from one religion onto another.

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Seems to be a rather pointless category with only two articles, one of which is to be merged per an AfD.

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tears, if stubborn PanchoS' disagreement doesn't save the category from being deleted, though. Cheers,

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You are saying that ethnicity is "trivial and it's ghettoizing when applied to people". Ethnicity can

4674:. If ethnicity and nationality fall out of line, forming a defining part of our multiple respectively 2125:

and has room for expansion. While the Caribbean in whole is often regarded part of North America, the

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The outcome of this nomination should match the one above, whether I agree with that outocme or not.

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or Uyghurs), for indigenous people forming a somewhat distinct minority (such as Native Americans).

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to this one, so it now has two sub-cats and a list. Does this make any difference to your views? –

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that does not believe in Jesus hence the choice of "BC" needs to read as "BCE" as per the article

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Most/all of the articles in this category are for species that are found elsewhere in Europe. Re

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Category:Member schools of the Society of Headmasters & Headmistresses of Independent Schools

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Category:Member schools of the Society of Headmasters & Headmistresses of Independent Schools

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the reason(s) for the person's notability; i.e., the characteristics the person is best known for

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Struck previous comment after this explanation. However, with that explanation there should be a

1292: 1218: 1157: 1093: 922: 644: 582:" - it's smaller than the continent-level categorization wanted by the relevant wikiproject (see 403: 381: 200: 181: 104: 4919: 4737:

If that's all you have to say in response, then, as Marcocapelle said, then we just disagree. --

754:" - can you clarify what changes you think should be made to the category before it is deleted. 5038:

Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2016 September 6#Category:Hong Kong pan-democrats

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This is a bit more problematic. Egypt's main area is in North Africa, but it also controls the

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delete. I have checked the contents and ensured that the articles are appropriately categorized

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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I'd be happy with that (as long as at the time of merge the contents still fit that parent).

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2013 June 14#Category:Dutch Reformed Christians

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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tag would be better than a full merge, which would still be better than keep/no consensus. --

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's

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I started this one, but the entire series from "10th-century..." and onwards, see examples:

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Yes, I see that these categories are often arranged like that, but why is that needed? E.g.

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should be removed.) We probably need another category for airline upgrade products though.

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Accreditation source is defining, industry trade groups are not. If kept, then speedy per

6420: 6394: 6267: 5972:. Although a lot of Mormon scripture has quite a socialist vibe to it, I'm not sure that " 5277: 5195: 3976: 3639: 3256: 2918: 2432: 2126: 879: 567:

in particular (combinations of) categories, but when sorting out what categories articles

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Most maintenance categories have nowhere near the number of articles that are covered by

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containers rarely hold more than two or three subcategories, so are quite superfluous. --

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There were some attempts within Mormonism at what some has been called "socialism": see

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Pretty much yes, I would. As it exists, this is what the category structure looks like:

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by someone else. It's easy to create a few bad categories, then suggest change because

3449: 3269: 3212: 2902: 2644: 2628: 5855:-- Anne of GB to match the main article would be my preference, but either would do. 4251:

I think your purpose is to start a larger conversation, which is fine. I do wonder if

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_January_17#Category:Burials_by_city

545:

categories, I don't think we may assume that they're not present in mainland Egypt (=

406:) are where the article doesn't make clear whether the bird is found in North Africa. 193:

as a practically empty category, basically useless when it can't be kept in anything.

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I wouldn't object to that, but would still prefer a merge to the by-region category.

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Knowledge (XXG):Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_May_19#Category:Insects_of_Andorra

377: 373: 194: 177: 162: 99: 2121:. I still believe that this category should stay. It is a legitimate subcategory of 6249: 6205: 6054: 6040: 6024: 6009: 5546: 5524:

were neither business class airlines nor business class products so I purged them.

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per nom. The same should be applied to all non-Christian related articles and cats.

3169: 3152: 2284: 2178: 2148: 2131: 2072: 1864: 1731: 1535: 1497: 737: 617: 550: 450: 4526:, which include one's occupations much more often than they do ethnic background. 4911:, but then you beautifully confirm what I said before: There's no ghettoization, 2010:

Note: the Sinai suggestion (in another discussion on this page) has been struck.

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True but if there would be agreement about that we may keep rodents by region.

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True but if there would be agreement about that we may keep Beetles by region.

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should be sufficent. However, if currently the species are only categorized in

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page lists other 19 Queen Annes. Anne is not exactly a rare name for royalty.

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as scholarly articles on the Israelites and Judaism uniformly use CE and BCE.

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in Jewish related articles, the terms CE/BCE are used as per what Izak wrote.

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would indicate to users that we'd like the per-region category be expanded. --

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would indicate to users that we'd like the per-region category be expanded. --

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Category:Member schools of the Independent Association of Preparatory Schools

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Category:Member schools of the Independent Association of Preparatory Schools

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and 7 of the 10 articles are about airlines not products on mixed airlines. (

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per StAnselm. Categories should be named with consistency whenever possible.

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You're right, I didn't recall the other CfDs, though I even participated in

347:(which is already in another Egypt category so doesn't need to be upmerged). 6534: