Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2010 January 19

2208:... but I disagree on the appropriateness of the category. I understand Peter's concern, and used to argue similar positions, but I have come round to the view that the wikipedia category system is not a precise taxonomy, but rather a navigational tool which necessarily makes some compromises with taxonomical perfection to allow easy navigation. In this case, I don't actually think the problem is all that great: it's a category which is accurate for time period it describes, but doesn't claim to cover all aspects of the articles within it. I don't see this as being different from other categories with a limited time-frame applied to articles with a longer time-span. -- 1986:. Endashes in category names look better, but are a pain-in-the-arse to type, for both readers and editors. They work in article names, where we use hard redirects, but since hard redirects are not yet used in categories it's silly to include a character which isn't marked on any keyboard I have ever used. (The multi-key special techniques for entering such characters vary between operating systems, even if anyone can be bothered to remember them). -- 2043:. Since the confederacy only exist from 1861-1865, the disambiguator appears superfluous. I think I can infer why it was added: the purpose of the category seems to be to separate off the articles and categories on the 11 states from the other articles and sub-categories of ]. However, this seems to me to be an unsatisfactory way of doing things. If it really is necessary to use a sub-category such as this, why not follow the example of 2175:-- Categories need to be in a format that can easily be added to articles, but most keyboards do not provide an em-dash. If changed articles are liable to be miscategorised with the en-dash. I know we prefer an em-dash in article titles, but the en-dash version will usually also exist as a redirect. Category redirects do not function the same way, and are a problem to some one who has to patrol them to keep them empty. 3180: 173:, the main parent, attempts to this point to split out the contents have centered on the type of hotel chain rather then where the chain operates or is based. Starting to split out these companies by where they are based would not be an aid to navigation. Consider this a test case for the two other related categories. If kept, it should probably be renamed to 1172:

mistakes. But back to the primary topic. Redirects are not an "assessment quality" nor are they articles. So they shouldn't be pigeonholed into something that they are not. If all you are going to say is, "it's the standard", than you need to make an argument as to why the "standard" scheme is better than the alternative. —

3101:

In the light of the discussion, this didn't need a CFD, I now realise, just creation of a sub-category in the existing category and editorial discretion to move from parent to subcat. The university libraries have been moved to the subcats, so there's nothing left to discuss. Would somebody care to

1709:

I think it makes very little sense to nom a category for deletion, and say simultaneously that it is underpopulated and that it might become too large. If it does grow as it ought, it can be subdivided, as any other category, by any of several possible criteria. (I agree with BHG that decade does not

1304:

For the record, the maintainers of WPBM have stated that they are also not particularly fond of the current assessment/quality category naming scheme, and would support on principle a proposal to correct/update it. I have had such a proposal drafted for half a year now (but have never taken the time

1286:

I seem to recall that there was a consensus established that Wikiproject based categories were required to have "WikiProject" as part of their category name, to make them distinct from encyclopedic categories, and separate from other sorts of maintenance categories. Did WPBANNERMETA crew override or

3453:

Actually, we recently changed it for the plays category. The standard is now "Plays by ...". It was a big job, though. It would be nice if we could at least gradually start to change these, especially the sculpture and paintings ones. (We could leave out the music ones.) In my opinion, these should

3061:

I've created the OU category, but will hold off transfer for now as (1) there's no rush (2) there's not unanimity on whether the Oxford parent category should stay or go, and I don't want to be accused of "bouncing" the decision (3) if the nominated category goes, then a bot will do the job for me!

2306:

Should Kentucky and Missouri be included in that category, or perhaps in a separate one? Both had Confederate governments, both elected members to both houses of the Confederate Congress, each had a star on the Confederate flag, etc. They both maintained pro-Union governments as well, obviously.

1266:

reasoning: These are related to specific wikiprojects, the current naming scheme used by WPBANNERMETA doesn't make an ounce of sense, it doesn't indicate that it is related to wikiprojects at all, but to a general subject, which many of the pages being categorized don't fit under, since wikiproject

1117:

I don't see how the naming schemes of other wikiprojects for non-assessment categories really matters here. Thoughtless consistency does not improve Knowledge (XXG), especially when that "standard " is a rather dumb, ambiguous, and arbitrary to begin with. The fact that it was created and enforced

422:

Interesting. I didn t expect there to be an article (my presumptiveness). According to eurohockey.net, the WP article contents would seem to be correct, but incomplete. There seems to have been two incarnations of a club by this (exact) name, one from the 1920s to the 1956 (although it was named

1171:

It's pretty clear that the naming scheme you are advocating was not actually thought-out and in hindsight was pretty dumb. However, most editors have decided to let sleeping dog lie. But since a couple of editors want to enforce the scheme, perhaps it's time to wake up those dogs and correct the

1148:

Describing something you disagree with as "thoughtless" and "dumb" doesn't help anyone. You may disagree with the category name, but the reason for using that one is that it fits the same format as the other by-quality categories. As to how this consistency was reached, that isn't particularly

893:

used was actually clearer than the one implemented by the template. In fact, they admitted that they didn't put much though into the naming scheme. However, since they didn't realize their mistake after hundreds of project banners were switched to using that scheme, but they didn't think it was

1676:

Even if split as above, many of the categories will still be too big to be useful. One solution is to split them by decades creating for example "1960s bowlers from Pakistan" ... but sportspeople's careers don't fit neatly into decades, so most players would end up in two or more by-decades

802:

And frankly, a wikiproject should have discretion over the naming schemes of its project categories. If someone want to change the project's naming scheme, than they should take it up with the wikiproject instead. However, this CfD is an end run around that discussion. And citing that other

1778:. I'm starting to think that division of people by century is a tad arbitrary when it comes to things like this. I'm not clear with what navigational purpose such a scheme would serve. I could understand if they were holding subcategories for decades or years, but obviously they can't. 777:

Because redirects are not a quality assessment class (FA, FL, GA, A, B, C, Start, Sub). Redirects are a type of page that are outside of assessment, much like disambiguation, templates, files, and ect. It is also consistant with the naming scheme of other project categories, such as

1023:. Consistency is generally given a high priority at CFD for category names, and while Farix has reasons for opposing it, none of them seems strong enough to break the convention. (Editors may wish to review the convention, bit that's another matter). It's also notable that at 196:. There are some large multinational hotel chains which are suitably divided by type, but it seems to me that there are also a lot of smaller hotel chains which operate only in one country. It seems to me to make sense to have by-country categories for these (e.g. 3526:

I volunteer to do the sculptures one. However, it may not happen immediately after this is closed, because I'm going to be away for a little while in the coming weeks. I will make it a priority for when I am around, though. There are not too many in

2468:

not the en-dash hassle again. I repeat for the nth time that copy and paste is the obvious way to replicate an en-dash; and that there are far worse than en-dashes in category names (pick any category involving Turkish football). I would prefer

1818:- I don't see how it is useful to have a category containing (say) an English cricketer who played from 1885 to 1901 and a Zimbabwean cricketer who played from 1999 to 2007 and moreover I don't see how any subcat scheme can remedy the problem. 2981:

and used to house the Oxfordshire Archives as well (which is notable in my view), so may be worth including. It would be nice to keep the city-level library categories for Oxford(/Cambridge), as discussed above. I would be happy to do an

1214:

Consistency for the take of consistency, especially when you won't even defend the problems with the consistency you are arguing for, is an extremely poor argument. But it is already consistent with the other WP-AM categories.

3503:

If there is a consensus not to do this rename, then we will need to rename the other sub-categories of ]. Is anyone volunteering to do a group CFR nomination for the lot? If so, I'll withdraw my support for this renaming.

1267:

coverage differs from the name that they chose to name themselves, sometimes significantly. Further, redirects, categories, templates, articles, portals, etc, are all pages. (usually the WPP covers a broader topic area)

3430:

Unfortunately, this ambiguous naming format is the convention of all the creative works categories: "foo books", "foo albums", "foo songs", "foo paintings", etc. I don't like it, but it would be huge job to change it.

866:, which should work correctly, but I rathered that there is little use in having a duplicate category. But yes, your mentioning the other WP:ANIME categories makes me wonder if this is rename is really worthwhile... 227: 2491:

Don't mind what we rename it to provided we drop the year range without the endash. I don't have specific knowledge of the affected articles' content to have a preferred new name from those mentioned above.

3021:

You seem to be right there, although the Tyndale House website confuses matters by having a ".cam.ac.uk" address! I'm happy to have OU/CU libraries in new sub-cats leaving the existing ones as parents.

1192:

No, consistency is more important than perfection. By all means start a discussion to change to change the convention, but it the meantime it's more important to keep the categories conistent. --

848:

currently lists the redirects as incomplete (I know, I could probably file a bug report, but it made more sense if the naming was also consistent). Furthermore, the TOC navigation templates (

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Part of my reason for nominating this was the current form is somewhat ambiguous. Is it sculpture by or of the artist? If this passes, then we still need to address the subcategories in

3082:

the idea of retaining a city cat in each case with a subcat for the Universities. (I would be surprised if Oxford does not have a notable non-University library. Croydon seems to have 5.)

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When you attempt to change a perfectly reasonable category name to one that, in many ways, is downright silly all for the sake of "conformity", than you should expect some pushback. —

426:. Eurohockey.net does not list any HC Milano Saima per se and the players listed on the HC Milano Saima players WP category page played for HC Milano according to Eurohockey.net 1673:

splitting them further either requires creating a huge collection of triple or quadruple intersections such "20th century bowlers from India". That will be a maintenance nightmare

626:

Move proposed as the abovementioned category is used as an "quality assessment" category but does not currently fall within the standard naming scheme, breaking templates such as

2515: 2470: 2333: 2149:, and all other subcategories use that form. The category should follow the key article and parent category, and be consistent with other related subcategories of that parent. 2138: 1924: 3115:

Thanks anyway for all your hard work: it looks like several mis-categorizations got fixed on the way and it's reminded me how many bits of the Bodleian I have yet to visit. -

1149:

relevant: what matters is that the convention for such category names gas been stable for a long time, and I am not aware of any demand to change it (other than from you). --

1024: 818: 755:, and is maintained by the project (WPBannerMeta was created due to projects not updating their templates (i.e. when C-class was enrolled), yet the Anime banner was updated 2266:

I agree, the speedy criterion does not appear to have consensus, at least in this discussion (I thought I might be the only objector here, but it seems not). Discuss it at

1027:, there was no evidence of any consensus at that wikiproject non-standard category names: AFAICS, Fanix was the only editor arguing in favour of the non-standard scheme. -- 795: 2267: 3036: 2855: 2821: 2312: 1053:

consistent with other WikiProject Anime project categories. And as I said before, the "convention" that was "enforced" on other wikiproject without discussions at all. (

791: 2336:, per Grutness and 70.29.211.9. On a related note, I guess it was naive to believe that the endash–hyphen debate would be over when we agreed on speedy criterion #7 in 680:

should depopulate automatically over the course of a few days as the template is purged, at which point the category can be speedily deleted as empty. I suggest asking

1072: 859: 599: 985: 783: 2895: 2809: 1068: 981: 863: 799: 677: 595: 2944:: Why not create "Libraries of the University of Oxford" as a subcategory of "Libraries in Oxford" instead? It might be useful to retain the city category, qv. 779: 3220: 2015:. Whether the en-dash, a hypen, or some squiggly line is used, the "...of America" and capitalisation of "States" should still be part of the category name. 1839:). Clearly, if fully populated, the 20th and 21st century categories would become too large to be meaningful. However, I am not certain that this applies to 423:'Inter Milan' during the 1950s, as the WP article page says) and another from the mid 1980s till 2008. The Milano club now is called Hockey Milano Rossoblu 3413: 275: 1095:

It may be consistent with WikiProject Anime project categories, but it's not consistent with the hundreds of other wikipedia categories for redirects. --

787: 3212: 21: 2850:: This would seem entirely reasonable; it is something I have thought about before now, but have not acted upon myself. However, this also applies to 1843:, which is unlikely to become too conjested and, if populated, may be a useful historical tool. If retained, it should become a direct subcategory of 1661: 759:

C-class was announced (but after it was approved). Its display is also more customizable (In terms of CSS) as WPBannerMeta, uses better wording, etc.

858:, etc) does not offer links to redirect class if the standard naming is not followed (Or is that intended?). I originally considered only populating 1306: 3203: 1682:

I can't see any way of making these categories work, and it seems best to delete them now before someone goes to a lot of work populating them. --

404:

states that the team folded in the mid-1950s, which seems to be at odds with the bios of the players in the category. Is this team name correct?

2146: 2040: 817:, we were assured by WPBannerMeta's developers that we would not be forced to use the meta template or change the project's category scheme. ( 17: 3516: 3443: 3385: 2930: 2409: 2282: 2220: 2115: 2063: 1998: 1746: 1694: 1204: 1161: 1107: 1039: 716: 216: 3547:

per nominator. If anybody wants it the other way around, thay should tag all those categories, but until such times this remains a sspeedy.

2126: 2093: 2044: 670: 644: 914:. I'm perfectly willing to let sleeping dogs lie so long as Wikiprojects can use alternative cat schemes for non-assessment categories. — 1328: 1288: 1268: 1253: 2308: 1664:. Whatever the merits of these categories in other parts of the category tree, it's a bad idea with cricket, for a number of reasons: 278:

because it has 16 members, and even that I personally do not see as sufficient reason to keep it, in view of the first two arguments.

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to match the structure of the parent category. Anyone displeased with that structure can make a broader nomination to change it.

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and other templates can be fixed at the templates by allowing the default categories to be override, just like it was fixed at

1710:

seem sensible for exactly the reason she gives) This is the sort of articles that people are very likely to want to browse.

1623: 1596: 1526: 2036: 1955: 1951: 1226: 1183: 1139: 1086: 999: 958: 925: 832: 465: 452: 158: 96: 1631: 1579: 1553: 1509: 1483: 1448: 1059:) And I do think it is absurd to categorize non-articles into a category that claims that they are articles. Redirects are 666:

for consistency. However, this sort of category should be populated only by the categories generated through the template

448: 201: 3528: 3343: 2915: 2142: 2012: 174: 1614: 1413: 133: 2949: 2911: 2899: 2805: 2669: 3572: 3556: 3535: 3521: 3498: 3481: 3458: 3448: 3425: 3407: 3390: 3355: 3316: 3292: 3268: 3252: 3197: 3166: 3142: 3124: 3110: 3091: 3070: 3056: 3030: 3016: 2995: 2969: 2935: 2884: 2871: 2840: 2797: 2779: 2755: 2739: 2722: 2701: 2674: 2604: 2585: 2561: 2545: 2531: 2502: 2482: 2457: 2426: 2414: 2384: 2370: 2349: 2324: 2301: 2287: 2261: 2248: 2225: 2196: 2161: 2120: 2085: 2068: 2027: 2003: 1976: 1943: 1910: 1886: 1870: 1856: 1827: 1807: 1782: 1770: 1751: 1721: 1699: 1561: 1491: 1456: 1398: 1376: 1352: 1336: 1296: 1276: 1261: 1230: 1209: 1187: 1166: 1143: 1112: 1090: 1044: 1003: 975: 962: 942: 929: 874: 836: 767: 740: 721: 658: 616: 583: 555: 531: 515: 492: 470: 435: 413: 390: 355: 327: 303: 287: 263: 239: 221: 186: 116: 74: 2957: 1840: 1544: 1474: 1439: 2953: 1421: 1404: 505: 141: 124: 91: 3331: 2713:. Also biosciences interdisciplinary research is nowadays a very sucessfull field that helps to combat diseases.-- 369: 274:

1. They contain only 1-2 articles. 2. There is no such category tree as Hotel chains per country. 3. We only have

3512: 3439: 3381: 3243:. Empty category. Seems like any appropriate images should be on Commons and the category should be there too. 3004: 2926: 2405: 2278: 2216: 2111: 2059: 1994: 1742: 1690: 1200: 1157: 1103: 1035: 803:

wikiprojects are use a different naming scheme, when most of them where forced without discussion, has created a

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

3267:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

3141:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

2914:

would simply be a container category. That would be useful if it was part of a series of such categories, but

2754:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

2560:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

1885:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

1351:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

530:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

302:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a

3291: