1263:(2011), Gong+Zero, HORSE The Band, Joy Division+New Order, Killing Joke, Korn, Minor Threat, Misfits, Modern English, Mudhoney, Muse, Opeth, The Offspring, Oysterhead, Pere Ubu, Primus, Popol Vuh, Porcupine Tree, Prong, Radiohead, Rage Against the Machine, Rites Of Spring, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Skinny Puppy, Slipknot, T.S.O.L., Talking Heads, The Adicts, The B-52's, The Clash, The Cramps, The Redskins, The Stooges, The Stranglers, The Sugarcubes, Tool, Tuxedomoon, U2, Wire, ... and many more.
1348:
wrote a song is slightly confusing as who constituted The Clash at a given time is not always the same and ultimately, songs are written by human beings. Albums are credited to bands/performers and it makes sense to follow that widely-used standard. It would be maniacal and unwieldy to credit every album to every performer on it. But songs are routinely described as being written by individuals or songwriting teams, even if this is not universal. —
798:. I essentially agree that this is too small to be useful, and there's little hope of expansion. In fact, the bio articles for the two individuals currently included in the category don't even provide very good evidence that they are "from" Venango. All each one says is that they were born there, and being born somewhere doesn't alone make a person "from" that place. So I'd say it's simply not needed right now.
1479:, which is something that is missing for example for U2. In other words, if readers want to know which songs by U2 were composed by U2 by exploring the categories (for the existing articles, of course) then they will miss this point, they will fail because (imho) all of those articles/songs are NOT actually correctly categorized. Happy editing! –
1397:, which is known as the "classic line-up") were credited for song-writing, music composition, production, and copyright (as Nineden Ltd.) for about all the songs written in the period from 1980 to 1982. Even if we know who really wrote the songs, Joe Strummer and Mick Jones with a few exceptions such as "
1401:", in this case, it is not correct to attribute the writing credits to each of the individual members of the group. We will make a mistake, an error if we attribute the credits of those songs to each of the members of the band into one of their related articles. Similarly, this applies to categories.
1155:
Fine. If you say there is no accurate non-primary source for credits, then so be it, especially as you argue so convincingly that Headon didn't write some songs, when the very category you are defending automatically includes Headon for everything anyway! Nor does it change that songwriter categories
1515:
as "Songs written by The Clash" is non-defining, unreferenced and a duplication of another category. I could also make further points about what people do in private cannot be verified (i.e. songwriting!) and ask you to consider the difference between primary and secondary sources which also applies
979:
already exist. I think that ASCAP's data about "Washington
Bullets" could be (is) wrong. But, the most important reason why this category (imho) can not be deleted is that if we delete this category, then seven articles will be not categorized by and under songwriting credits, unless we give credits
633:
I can see that it's in the middle of nowhere rather than within a city. We don't have 'people by village', or 'people by unincorporated community' because they would split up useful categories (eg 'by county') into tiny and useless fragments, exactly as is happening here. No-one outside
Pennsylvania
1010:
there have been different members at different times whilst this category suggests that all 10 of them wrote each song! You mentioned
Sandinista, one track from that album, Magnificent 7, according to ASCAP, is credited to to the 4 individual members from the "classic line up." If you want to split
766:
How is there any sort of contradiction here? Knowledge does not apply arbitrary size cutoffs in the sense that a place does not have to have a specific population figure to qualify for a "People from City" category; whether a place has a population of seven million or just twelve has no bearing on
715:
For what it's worth, what determines whether a "People from Foo" category should exist or not is not the place's current population in raw census data, but rather the number of
Knowledge articles that can actually be filed in it. After all, population changes over time, and Knowledge doesn't apply
1347:
and is no incumbent upon outside forces other than the standards of styling in professional
English-language publications. U2 (e.g.) are free to say that "U2" wrote a song and that is intelligible and fine (note also that they haven't had a line-up change since 1977), but saying that "The Clash"
747:
So you say "Knowledge doesn't apply arbitrary size cutoffs to its inclusion or exclusion rules" and then follow that with "I personally wouldn't create such a category for just two articles: if there were four or five, I'd say keep" - so which is it? Arbitrary cut-off or not? Categories with one
1530:
PS. And just to confirm what a ridiculous argument is going on. Nineden Ltd is a publishing/music administration company. This is confirmed by ASCAP. A search of the company files at
Companies House states that the directors are Jones and Simonon ONLY and the shareholders are Jones, Simonon and
724:
have categories for some large unincorporated communities (such as individual neighbourhoods within major metropolitan cities.) All that said, I personally wouldn't create such a category for just two articles: if there were four or five, I'd say keep, but for two I have to go with the
1182:, and 2 songs "Guns on the Roof" (1978) and "The Card Cheat" (1979) credited to Topper Headon, Mick Jones, Paul Simonon, Joe Strummer. I am sure there are other cases in which the credits of a song are attributed to a band or a group seen as a single entity, the single recipient. –
1178:, as well as all the rest of their songs at the moment are well organized and categorized here on Knowledge, while ASCAP's database shows incorrect data. There are more than 50 songs written by (and credited to) The Clash, 5 written by (and credited to) The Clash &
861:" if they were not all already in that category. I'm going to suggest a precedent here: that if a song is credited as written by a band, and is already in a category of the style "(band) songs", it does not need a category for songwriting. Let's see if that sticks.--
1266:
Even if we delete this category, sooner or later, the problem will surely reoccur in the future. Furthermore, the purpose, the scope of these categories is to categorize all articles about a song (or a composition) by song-writing/composing and NOT by royalties.
1248:: I did a little research on Knowledge, Discogs, Allmusic, and my collection of albums (vinyls and CDs), and I found that there are several bands/groups that are credited for writing the lyrics and/or composing the music. The following is an incomplete list:
916:. Songs are written by people, not by people who are then associated together in some other way. Making categories of songwriters by band member affiliation is a huge headache and not at all helpful to navigation. Previous discussions include
1297:
Response. And they will continue to be nominated for deletion as per precedent and policy like this category. BTW A number of the band names you have mentioned above have songwriter categories by songwriter, rather than marketing name.
1466:
composed the music, and the latter, the music composition, must be attributed to U2. This is more correct than attributing the music compositions to those who have not actually written them. We are not a law firm but an encyclopedia.
217:
argh, over-categorisation gone mad. Categorization is there as a navigation aid adding extra levels of categorisation does not help. trying to draw a strong distinction between a branch of something, and a particular techniques like
1075:
1067:
1041:
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1046:
1470:
One of the primary purposes of the category system, here on the
English Knowledge, is to provide links to all Knowledge articles in a hierarchy that defines the characteristic of a topic, and, in the case of
1531:
Lucinda Mellor - each holding precisely one-third of the issued capital. Limited companies CANNOT write songs, individuals do, which is pretty much why this category was nominated in the first place. --
1223:
constituted the band at that time are who are actually wrote the song. Also, I would have pointed out the Bee Gees example from above, but the nominator already did--there is a precedent against this. —
967:(May 1982), the band's traditional songwriting credits (Strummer/Jones) were replaced by a generic credit to The Clash in order for all of them to receive royalties. This is the reason why I've created
611:
Obviously you ignore the fact that boroughs in
Pennsylvania (and in some other states) aren't subdivisions of cities as you seem to think but self-governing municipalities directly below county level:
1129:" ... all these songs are wrongly credited by ASCAP to Topper Headon. I fear that ASCAP's online database has/shows incorrect data about Topper Headon and I can't figure out the rest. –
240:
42:
37:
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A Certain Ratio, Audioslave, Beastie Boys, Big Audio
Dynamite, Black Sabbath, The Boys Next Door, Butthole Surfers, Cabaret Voltaire, Can, Chickenfoot for "Alright Alright" on
1044:, while it was written by Joe Strummer, composed by Mick Jones, credited to them only, and at the time Topper Headon (Nicholas Bowen Headon) was not part of the band. About
720:
can still have such a category if it's had enough notable people living there in the past. And the place's incorporation status isn't strictly determinative, either, as we
489:
670:"No-one outside Pennsylvania would say 'I am from Venango, Pennsylvania'" Because they wouldn't be from Venango, Pennsylvania, if they were outside of it...
775:
to justify it — but it's a question of how many articles we do or don't have, not of how many people were recorded as living there in the last US Census.
729:. With, of course, the proviso that the category may be recreated in the future if and when we have a few more articles about people from Venango.
21:
368:
or some other kind. In theory I'd prefer "GUI controls" but didn't get consensus to change the mainspace articles when I tried a few months ago.
1455:
1113:
renamed and rewrote the song as "Junco
Partner", and credited it to himself and Robert Ellen), "Koka Kola", "Last Gang in Town", "Listen", "
214:
156:
1413:, many groups/bands split the music credits equally (or in the name of). The following are a couple of articles, the first published by
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as part of an established scheme of people from boroughs. The point is not the size of its population but the fact that it's a borough.
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You keep missing the point. The crucial difference between Venango and an unincorporated community is precisely the fact that Venango
1040:, which is not correct. And again, "48 Hours" a song from their 1977 debut album according to ASCAP's online database is credited to
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A scheme which allows categorisation by sub-sub-sub-national units of under 1000 people is ridiculous and should be abandoned.
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which credits Bob Dylan with drums--this is clearly fraudulent. We're not obliged to categorize by the conventions that
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says only Jones and Strummer it looks as if some confirmations are needed in respect of the accuracy of the articles. .
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so each songwriter is individually credited I would applaud your edits, but this category must go, as per precedent. --
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and as a double A-side promo single (Epic AE7 1178) flipped by "Gates of the West", "Hate and War", "I'm Not Down", "
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the matter of whether the place can have such a category or not. That's quite different from the question of whether
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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in which all revenue is shared equally; Bono and the Edge could have claimed the songwriting revenue but didn't.
1219:
Per nom--saying that a band wrote a song might be true in a sense, but is not useful for an ontological scheme.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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per nom. Category creator recently created two more categories, which I've nominated for deletion
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reports: "writer, at present, unknown", but is a traditional song that was originally written by
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is a good start towards fixing this. I would also suggest similar categories for example
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article are fine, esp. as you say there's potential for growth (ghost-town example).
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should not exist by band and the further fact that everything here is also in
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HEADON NICHOLAS BOWEN/JONES MICHAEL GEOFFREY/MELLOR JOHN/SIMONON PAUL GUSTAVE
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HEADON NICHOLAS BOWEN/JONES MICHAEL GEOFFREY/MELLOR JOHN/SIMONON PAUL GUSTAVE
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it's about the same with "All the Young Punks (New Boots and Contracts)", "
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
1110:
1062:" (this is a traditional song arranged by Strummer/Jones on their 1978's
369:
1477:, in a way that produces the expected (and correct and best) results
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In which case, the simple solution is to merge this category into
1381:: I'm not 100% sure , but The Clash (as a single entity formed by
1339:--they can credit or style or capitalize however they want. What
1462:, while in reality Bono wrote the lyrics, The Edge and probably
1074:" is correctly credited to Strummer/Jones, "Gates of the West",
175:. It is not immediatley clear why some of the subcategories of
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All the above songs, plus the seven songs catagorized within
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1555:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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About U2, I see that the song credits, for example for "
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Category:Articles on branches of mathematical analysis
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1446:"'s article, are misattributed to/categorized under:
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as part of an established scheme of people from foo.
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widgets also exist outside of software or computers.
536:– there is no established scheme for places such as
1565:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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821:). No further edits should be made to this section.
456:). No further edits should be made to this section.
432:). No further edits should be made to this section.
316:). No further edits should be made to this section.
292:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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1082:but it has never been officially released, while "
771:have enough articles about people from that place
490:Category:People from Crawford County, Pennsylvania
222:is going to create more problems than it solves.--
264:('delete' leaves the subcats without a parent).
145:There's already a category for analysis topics,
1078:was recorded during the recording sessions for
511:Wrong, as I found another in about 10 seconds.
1032:" was written and composed (and credited to)
634:would say 'I am from Venango, Pennsylvania'.
8:
1125:", "Up-Toon", "Walking the Slidewalk", and "
1460:Category:Songs written by Larry Mullen, Jr.
1409:Mainly, as in the case of Dream Theater or
1423:Calculating the credits behind songwriting
497:Only one entry, doubt there will be more.
486:Category:People from Venango, Pennsylvania
439:Category:People from Venango, Pennsylvania
211:Category:Branches of mathematical analysis
181:Category:Branches of mathematical analysis
169:Category:Branches of mathematical analysis
109:Category:Branches of mathematical analysis
60:Category:Branches of mathematical analysis
1160:, so the category is redundant, too. --
932:says the Clash wrote the song, whereas
1456:Category:Songs written by Adam Clayton
360:. Clarify that the category is about
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1430:U2 is also one of the very few bands
1474:Category:Songs written by The Clash
1176:Category:Songs written by The Clash
969:Category:Songs written by The Clash
877:Category:Songs written by The Clash
828:Category:Songs written by The Clash
18:Knowledge:Categories for discussion
1452:Category:Songs written by The Edge
1036:only, while ASCAP atributes it to
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852:The result of the discussion was:
463:The result of the discussion was:
323:The result of the discussion was:
84:The result of the discussion was:
540:with a total population of 288.
220:Category:Calculus of variations
1448:Category:Songs written by Bono
1427:The Statesman (Page 4 of 14) "
1109:as "Junker's Blues". In 1951,
1058:", "Death or Glory", "Deny", "
262:Category:Mathematical analysis
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871:04:30, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
803:04:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
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593:So 1,001 people would be OK?
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338:03:37, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
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251:12:41, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
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185:Category:Branches of geometry
171:is useful for tidying up the
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30:
1516:to your comments. Cheers. --
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1204:14:15, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
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1151:09:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
1021:12:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
1008:List of members of The Clash
1002:11:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
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739:22:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
711:22:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
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1444:Pride (In the Name of Love)
1076:GROOVY TIMES ARE HERE AGAIN
701:as per User:Occuli's point
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857:This would be "upmerge to
1047:ASCAP & Topper Headon
930:Washington Bullets (song)
179:are subcategories of it.
1558:Please do not modify it.
1513:Category:The Clash songs
1158:Category:The Clash songs
973:Category:The Clash songs
859:Category:The Clash songs
838:Please do not modify it.
814:Please do not modify it.
449:Please do not modify it.
425:Please do not modify it.
309:Please do not modify it.
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977:List of The Clash songs
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1328:My Chartreuse Opinion
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1028:: For what I know, "
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1323:The Minus 5
1180:Mikey Dread
1107:Willie Hall
1103:Sandinista!
1095:Janie Jones
1068:Garage Land
964:Combat Rock
958:Sandinista!
406:65.94.77.11
362:GUI widgets
330:Vegaswikian
95:Vegaswikian
1533:Richhoncho
1518:Richhoncho
1387:Mick Jones
1300:Richhoncho
1162:Richhoncho
1127:White Riot
1072:Garageland
1013:Richhoncho
938:Richhoncho
658:Monegasque
617:Monegasque
559:Monegasque
55:November 6
43:November 7
38:November 5
1464:Brian Eno
703:Mayumashu
1496:contribs
1335:have on
1315:Response
1284:contribs
1199:contribs
1146:contribs
1111:Bob Shad
997:contribs
466:upmerge.
389:Pichpich
260:back to
205:we have
188:Brad7777
166:Disagree
20: |
1425:" and "
1379:Comment
1317:I have
1246:Comment
1026:Comment
953:Comment
890:history
855:delete.
796:Upmerge
777:Bearcat
773:on here
752:Lugnuts
731:Bearcat
727:upmerge
699:Upmerge
674:Lugnuts
597:Lugnuts
534:Upmerge
519:Lugnuts
258:Upmerge
122:history
1458:, and
1393:, and
1333:others
1217:Delete
975:and a
914:Delete
636:Occuli
577:Occuli
542:Occuli
402:Rename
385:Rename
364:, not
358:Rename
326:Rename
266:Occuli
248:(talk)
237:Delete
203:Delete
955:: In
934:ASCAP
898:watch
894:links
243:. —
224:Salix
157:deeds
130:watch
126:links
87:Merge
46:: -->
16:<
1537:talk
1522:talk
1491:talk
1304:talk
1279:talk
1194:talk
1166:talk
1141:talk
1097:", "
1091:(EP)
1066:), "
1017:talk
992:talk
971:. A
942:talk
924:and
920:and
902:logs
886:talk
882:edit
867:talk
781:talk
758:talk
735:talk
718:zero
707:talk
680:talk
662:talk
640:talk
621:talk
603:talk
581:talk
563:talk
555:Keep
546:talk
525:talk
513:Keep
474:talk
410:talk
393:talk
374:talk
334:talk
270:talk
241:here
228:talk
213:and
192:talk
134:logs
118:talk
114:edit
99:talk
35:<
1483:joe
1440:".
1325:'s
1271:joe
1221:Who
1186:joe
1133:joe
984:joe
503:•
488:to
370:Pnm
348:to
230:):
209:,
89:to
22:Log
1539:)
1524:)
1494:•
1454:,
1450:,
1411:U2
1389:,
1385:,
1364:☯
1345:us
1341:we
1306:)
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1282:•
1239:☯
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1362:M
1360:☺
1358:C
1356:☮
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1352:❤
1321:/
1302:(
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1276:(
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1267:–
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1233:C
1231:☮
1229:T
1227:❤
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