Knowledge:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 17

2241:, I agree, if there are other categories, like "Alien characters in video games" or "Animal characters in video games" they could be improved upon too by being specific. As it stands now those categories are deceptively named. If the main thrust of the current category is supposed to be video game characters, then a better name fo rit might be "Category:Video game robot characters" or "Video game characters who are robot", putting the emphasis on video game character, not robots. As it is right now, look in the category "Film characters" and you will see a lot of characters who did not ORIGINATE in films, like Donatello of the TMNT (a comic book originating character). He only exists there because he has appeared in films, not because he originated there. Some categories have "originating" in their description and others do not. This is inconsistent. Having a more specific name for the category, or opening them up to any character appearing in the medium would be a solution. 1054:(Reply to Py0alb after edit conflict). Basically, yes, but I'd see it more as a hierarchy, so that the season categories are subcategories of the year categories: in the case of England, they'd be a subcategory of just a single year category, but in New Zealand and elsewhere, they'd be shown as subcategories of two year categories. If an article records an event that happens inside a specific cricket season in that country, then the season category is the rightr place to put it; if an article records an event that happens outside that country's specific cricket season but in a particular year, then the year category is the right one. Because we're not meant to put articles into both subcategories and parent categories, there wouldn't be overlap. It's merely that the "lower level" season categories have, in the case of England, just one parent, whereas in the rest of the world where seasons overlap two years these subordinate categories would have two parent year categories. 1245:. I've removed Hugo's additional delete votes and replaced them with comments in case a closing admin doesn't notice his multiple voting. We have four keeps against one merge and two deletes. Clearly the category means things related to NZ cricket in the calendar year but especially the activities of the national team. The domestic season is part of the calendar year only and, as it takes place in two calendar years, needs separate coverage. Dweller's original point summed it all up very well and the discussion since then has been largely superfluous. Definitely a keep (per my earlier vote). ---- 2620:

buildings. In Europe, a local radio station is a rarity in a small town, and in the UK and Ireland a community newspaper is also a rarity. But a town which has none of those things may still have produced half-a-dozen notable people, which is enough for a category. Categories exist to facilitate navigation between articles, and if enough articles exist for one category of an approved type, then we should have it; but that's a separate issue to the question of whether enough articles exist for another category of an approved type. --

2338:- The problem is NOT that we need more categories, the problem is this category misnamed and misleading. The category is called "Robot characters in video games", there are robot characters, who are in video games, and they are NOT allowed into this category... What sort of sense is there in that? If your argument is that this category should be limited to "video game characters", then don't call it "robot characters...", perhaps "Video game character robots" or "video game robots"? Then it would be properly descriptive. 2912: 1178:(and note that Hugo999 has not only nominated this cat for deletion but has subsequently voted twice more for deletion.... please). This category (and those like them) are relevant to "cricket played by the country of New Zealand", not "cricket played in the country of New Zealand". Per Dweller, this is an obvious keep. (And Hugo999, voting "delete" for a fourth time won't help....) 1081:-- Cricket in temperate countries is a summer sport. The season straddles the change in year. Accordingly, the categories should be 2009-10. The analogy with English cricket is a false one. The correct analogy is with northern hemisphere winter nsports, such as Football or Rugby, where we have recently got rid of annual categories in favour of season ones. 2300:(same editor, same "problems", same day). Oh, and video game categories are actually not being spammed, unlike the comics and film ones (where even many of video game characters are spammed, but it's going one way - maybe I'll create one for vg characters who make licensed appearances in other media though, as often they actually make it pretty big, as with 2224:. So either the current state should be understood as convention, that categorization by medium is only applicable for characters originating in that medium, or this nomination will need to be expanded to include a few dozen additional categories. It does not sense to rename just this one and leave the others.- 3144:

as an appropriate defining characteristic of the individuals so recognized for the highest level of achievement in collegiate basketball in the United States. The existence of a list is irrelevant; There's a reason that we don't just get rid of every category with a corresponding lists, and that's as

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The current category name would suggest that the category is for robot character who merely appear in video games, but the description says it's only for characters who come from video games. There are dozens are robot characters who appear in video games on wikipedia, but do not originate in a video

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transgender, so even if separate splitouts for "individual quadrant culture in individual city" were actually warranted (which they're really not; those Liverpool and London categories should both be upmerged to the existing "LGBT culture in..." parents), these two topics still wouldn't belong in the

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is listed under two English cricket seasons, being in the southern hemisphere summer which spans two seasons. New Zealand tours of England can similarly be listed under one or two New Zealand cricket seasons as appropriate without an extra “by-year” layer for New Zealand cricket. And you want to list

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U.S. college basketball is a huge deal (dwarfing the vast majority of pro sports leagues elsewhere in the world, I'd imagine.) Getting named to its H of F would seem to represent pretty much its highest honor, for lifetime achievement. As with the Pac-12 HofF, I don't see why it wouldn't easily meet

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which are naturally before the 2011–12 Scottish association football playing season starts. And to take the first article I picked at random on an English football club season (Fulham) the article refers to the 2009–10 season but starts with a tour of Australia in July 2009 and finishes with English

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does two jobs. It covers articles that deal with English cricket in the 2010 English season; and it covers articles that deal with English cricket between 1 January 2010 and 31 December 2010. This double function works only for England, because only in England among major Test-playing nations is the

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Deleting this category will mean that all articles relating to the New Zealand cricket team playing away from home will not appear in a New Zealand cricket category. So this summer's tour of England will appear in the England season category, but not in the (now deleted) 2013 in New Zealand cricket.

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Bearcat's reply is based on lots of assumptions. First, even if all those things exist on the ground, they won't necessarily have separate Knowledge articles. Secondly, whether those things exist at all depends a lot on the area; a new industrial town may have many notable residents, but no notable

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per nom. Although it's not an official requirement as such, I think it's generally a very good practice to not subcategorize them by individual town or city until the town or city actually has its own eponymous category to also parent the "People from..." subcategory. Until that's true, people from

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All of such vg characteers categories on Knowledge are constructed this way, excluding boss characters only (out of tens ategories). And this is how it should be with comic characters as well ("This is a category for all fictional characters that originated in comics.") and all their sub-categories

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argued, this an orientalist framing and has no place here IMHO. We can simply categorize these articles by the continent they are from, as we do for Europe/North America. From a quick perusal, Asia/Oceania/South America should do the trick for all of the articles currently in this category. I'm not

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You misunderstand. Of course the Ashes series in 2010-11 doesn't appear in an English cricket season category, because it didn't take place in an English cricket season. It took place in an Australian cricket season and the two do not overlap. Any international series properly belongs in one season

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What Dweller appears to be seeking in this case is two separate annual categories for New Zealand cricket, one running by calendar year and one by domestic cricket season. If the aim to separate domestic cricket from international competitions, then the categories should be renamed to reflect this;

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the event — however, categories are not supposed to be used to create image galleries in the first place, and for that matter every single one of the photographs in question is also tagged as a candidate to be transferred to Commons, meaning they will most likely eventually be deleted from en: and

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Just weighing in as the apparent creator of this category (man, I don't even remember it) - this was the solution to some age old problem that likely doesn't exist anymore in anyone's active memory. By all means, improve it. I'm half-tempted to close the debate as a split, but I'd have to remember

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I'm happy that it should mean "things related to NZ cricket in 2009". The point is that there are some "things" that relate to NZ cricket that didn't take place within the defined time limits of the New Zealand cricket seasons (2008-09 and 2009-10) and that therefore can't go in the cricket season

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Hang on, didn't you vote "Delete" earlier? Not sure about the propriety of voting twice... In any case, your attempt to correlate cricket with football now seems to rely on redefining cricket seasons into a 12-month period: I'm not sure it's Knowledge's place to do that when the convention in the

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So for every major cricket nation, there should be one category that covers the domestic season, and another for everything that happened in the calendar year. In every country except England, these will overlap. So NZ cricket season 2009-2010 overlaps with NZ cricket 2010, which overlaps with NZ

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The current titles apparently reflect the terminology used within cricket circles, where cricket fans presumably know that there is an implicit "domestic" in the title. However, Knowledge is written for a general audience rather than a specialist readership of cricket fans, so so extra clarity is

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is silly. The two decisions should be made separately, based slely on whether there are enough articles in either category to justify its existence. It's quite possible for a small town to have no notable buildings or sports teams or whatever to justify a town category, but still to have enough

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Graysville is a real place that is still recognized. The category is a valid classification and it is reasonable to expect that it could grow. The entries in the county category are people who are identifiable by county, but cannot be pinned to a specific named place, plus one person who is

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The only dffierences is that for video games, the categories are actively being watched by me, while comics characters are not really watched by anyone, and are spammed with the characters from all kind the other media who just appeared in comics at some point And it's not even about their

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Hmm. Adding "domestic" introduces a different element of ambiguity, since "domestic cricket" will tend to refer to competitions below the level of international (Test, ODI, T20I) cricket, whereas the cricket that takes place in a particular season is of all kinds. Specifically it's the NZ

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category (the one relating to the country it took place in) and one or two "year in cricket" categories for each of the teams that participated. One if the series was completed in a single year, two if the tour straddled Dec/Jan, as is common for the southern hemisphere.

2653:. There are three people listed in the category, and no reason to think it won't grow larger. It's an inherently valid category, and it's not doing any harm. I agree with BrownHairedGirl regarding the silliness of Bearcat's suggestion, but I also went ahead and created 1039:

Precisely. Sorry, I appreciate that these issues may be a little arcane for non cricket followers, especially the way that for most (but not every) countries each season encompasses two calendar years and that teams play away from home outside of their domestic season.

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We don't normally categorise articles by the form of their title - for one thing if an article is renamed to a synonym the category is no longer correct. This is also a sort of self-ref to the encyclopedia. Perhaps this should be an admin/hidden category.

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having at least two or three listed historic properties and a sports team and a local community newspaper and at least one local radio station, and possibly even two or three other notable historic events on top of that, to support an eponymous category.

761:. These categories have about 4 articles each so do not need merging to “years in New Zealand sport”. Year or season categories for a sport can contain both international tours by the national team and tours to the country by overseas teams. The article 925:

This will make it impossible for researchers to use the Categories to find matches played by NZ teams without having to trawl the relevant Categories for each and every other cricket playing country. That's a nonsense and goes against the whole point of

2786:). The category Surgery journals contains 44 articles (45 if this one is included), which does not seem to be excessive (and if that number should somehow appear to be too large, there would be more logical subcats, such a "Plastic surgery journals"). 489:

I gave English cricket as a good example, because it's simpler to understand. It doesn't just work for international cricket. It would apply equally, for example, for New Zealand domestic teams performing in invitational 20:20 competitions overseas.

968:, but with a proviso. I rather agree with both sides here, and I think that's because in my view the difficulty may well lie elsewhere. The basic problem seems to me not to be the apparently overlapping New Zealand categories: it is that 213:

per nominator. The category can be recreated in the future if and when Knowledge actually does have a reasonable number of articles to file in it — but we do not need or want individual "People from Town" categories which only have

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If the sport seasons categories for all sports are restricted to the playing season either say October-March or April-September as proposed above, this would not include items like player transfers before the season begins; eg

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Thanks for clarifying your intent, Bearcat. Regarding Pineville, although it is very small, it's a county seat and the only town in a fairly large area, so it can be expected to be the locus of multiple article topics.

2263:"Film characters" is another category that is being spammed, just like comics characters. But it's not on my watch so persoally I don't care. I might start removing when I see it, though. (Also, as for TMNT characters: 1687: 3062: 3527:

deal in the U.S. Getting named to its H of F would seem to represent pretty much its highest honor, for lifetime achievement. This is a select group of individuals and I don't see why it wouldn't easily meet

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already exists and this category was added alongside that one rather than replacing it. The other issue is that the two articles that are in this category are not male-exclusive topics — rather, they're gay

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I agree it's confusing, but the categories under review shouldn't just contain articles about the New Zealand season, but also the performance of the various New Zealand teams who travel the world each year

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says "cricket seasons are the times of the year when cricket is played". As above, the NZ cricket team plays cricket all year round; it has a 12-month season. If you want a category to refer only to the

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per nominator as classic performer by performance. I'm sure it's an honor to perform at the festival, but with "more than 23,000" participants in 40+ years, it could hardly be considered defining.

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Three people is not enough to jsutify a category like this, especially when the place has under 5,000 people. The county category is also no where near needing splitting, so upmerging makes sense.

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a reasonable number of articles to file in them (a minimum of between five and ten is a good rule of thumb), and should not be kept on the basis of how reasonable it is or isn't to expect that it

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has a plain English meaning of "topics relating to cricket in New Zealand in the 2009-10 period". If it is intended to refer only to domestic fixtures, then the name should make that clear. --

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The New Zealand cricket team plays cricket at any time of the year, by touring. If the category is intended to refer only to the domestic cricket season, its name should reflect that fact.

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Currently, all matches played in NZ are in the relevant season Cats and all matches involving NZ teams are in the year Cats. This is not a pointless duplication, but an aid to research. --

667:. We don't require explanation of terminology in category names for people who aren't familiar with it, which is lucky, or some of the scientific categories would have ridiculous names. -- 1792: 3960:. While having been a performer at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival may be a notable fact about a performer, it is not defining for them and therefore not suitable for categorization. 1365: 1563:

two existing cats are continental categories, this is more standard to classify articles based on their overall region of origin. The other cat has also been nominated for renaming.

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Not every place that exists necessarily needs its own separate "People from..." category; CFD has a longstanding consensus that separate categories by individual town or city should

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I've changed to neutral per Johnpacklambert. While Pac-12 is a big deal, is a regional grouping and the national collegiate HoF nominated above would clearly be the highest honour.

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says that categories and overlapping lists can coexist. A cited advantage of categories is "Good for exploratory browsing of Knowledge." There is a vast existing parent category in

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says that categories and overlapping lists can coexist. A cited advantage of categories is "Good for exploratory browsing of Knowledge." There is a vast existing parent category in

3420: 797:, but could be included in the next NZ season as well if it went into July. And New Zealand international tours to Australia and South Africa will fall within one season eg both 42: 37: 1413:

the categorization of South America as "non-Western" is questionable at best. A higher percentage of the population of Uruguay is of European descent than of the United States.

2221: 3497:. It makes sense that readers should be able to browse and explore inductees of this hall of fame also, which is a notable honor and has it's own standalone list that meets 3356: 3173:. It makes sense that readers should be able to browse and explore inductees of this hall of fame also, which is a notable honor and has it's own standalone list that meets 399:

As I said the few articles in this three categories would not be orphaned because they are already in the appropriate NZ "cricket season" category (actually except for

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in New Zealand lasts from approx October to approx March. You are proposing to delete the "year" categories and leave only the "season" ones. That will mean that

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is topics relating to NZ cricket globally in the calendar year, which is wider than the scope of one season. Both concepts are needed by the cricket project. ----

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is "things related to NZ cricket in 2009". If it has the narrower scope suggested by the Rambling Man, then its name should reflect that narrower scope. --

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is that award categories are reserved for only a small number of exceptionally significant awards. This may be the highest hall of fame honor which a

2209: 2921: 2834: 2170: 757:. I still think per my nomination that we should delete and upmerge any not already in the appropriate season category to the appropriate season eg 621:

Yes, the current name is entirely unambiguous. It refers to the cricket season in New Zealand for that period. How do you make that any clearer?

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I really do wish that editors would check this sort of thing before blindly proposing a deletion which would orphan a set of pages.</sigh: -->

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should contain links to articles about events (and other things) that took place in a (real) cricket season, in New Zealand, in 2009-10.

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there is no appropriate NZ categorisation for matches played by NZ teams anywhere in the world in the months April to September inclusive

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cricket team that plays all year round; lots of other NZ cricket teams, notable and non-notable, only play during the NZ cricket season.

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So, taking a non English cricket example, which New Zealand season category would you place the (fairly randomly chosen article)

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that categories, lists and navigation boxes are intended to complement each other, not to exist in competition with each other.

2220:. The only examples I could find where "originating in" is specified in the name are several Disney-related subcategories, e.g. 1942:

category for an individual event; its only two entries already crosslink to each other in body text anyway, thus also violating

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There are at least three other journals that fit into this category, and I am considering creating articles for them as well. —

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award categories are supposed to be extremely limited. Being honored by a sub-national league does not meet that requirement.

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categories, but which are still relevant to NZ cricket. Of which a tour by the national cricket team elsewhere is an example.

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would fit there, and it would parallel the existing cricket season categories for other parts of the world. But a broader

979: 361:. The nominator is right that these categs are superfluous, but they should be upmerged rather than deleted. For example, 3194:

This is the highest hall of fame honor a college player can get as far as their accomplishments at the university level.

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So rather than delete the New Zealand categories, I’m inclined to split the English one which is the true anomaly here.

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refers to a series that took place in Australia, outside of the English cricket season, yet it rightly appears in both

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this is overcategorization. Plus, if the article gets moved, the cats are suddenly broken? That doesn't make sense. --

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What I’m unclear about is whether having this double function is desirable. If there was a new category called

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The principle that character categories refer to characters introduced in the medium is widespread throughout

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grow enough to warrant a category, then it can be recreated — but we don't keep categories just because they

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I'm the creator. Wasn't aware of WP:OC#AWARD at the time. I'm sure I just mimicked another category like

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introduction, they are just mainly from this kind of media, they're just video game characters. See also:

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doesn't fit those criteria: it didn't take place in New Zealand or in the New Zealand cricket season.

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all international events involving New Zealand in the “by-year” category even though events like the

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league games in May 2010. The first “pre-season friendly” game in England is also in July 2009. See

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If it's going to make you happy then "video game robot characters" it may be. There's even already

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sport has been otherwise for more than 150 years. There's a basic point here: a category called

853:: English cricket seasons in the northern hemisphere summer fall into one calendar year but the 331:; so does not need a “by year” category as well. The items are already in the season categories 4049:

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I stand corrected: there are more such journals than I thought. I withdraw the nomination. --

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for Sonic the Hedgehog, maybe cats like "Video game characters in television series" etc). --

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but not in either of the possible 2013 New Zealand season articles. For example, the article

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Current naming is clear, consistent and simple. I can't imagine how it could be improved. --

159: 1946:. The only other content that was ever in this category at all was a series of photographs 990:

is still needed to cover articles about English cricket events outside the domestic season.

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Now there are six entries, and that's without the other entries that need to be created:

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as the games are played during the Australian cricket season. The logic for a category

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quite sure what holds them together otherwise, other than this notion of "otherness".

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It's totally unambiguous, specifically, in its name, referring to the concept of a "

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Pineville is quite small, as cities go. I think the county article is sufficient.

327:

Cricket in New Zealand is a summer sport with each season spanning two years, see

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delete eponymous Category:Pacific-12 Conference Men's Basketball Hall of Honor

2780:, there seems to be only one other journal that would fit into this category ( 1136:

as bi-year seasons should run from July to June, here July 2009 to June 2010.

3501:. Delete the eponymous category, however, which in hindsight has no purpose.— 3483:

Keep Category:Pacific-12 Conference Men's Basketball Hall of Honor inductees

1099:

in? That entire tour took place outside of any New Zealand cricket season. --

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