708:: Having been neutral on the initial discussion I have come round to opposing this move and believing that we should move the article back to its longstanding title, although this will need a proper RM as it is obviously not a noncontroversial move. Such a RM was recently initiated, although the proposer hoped for it to be opposed to establish a consensus for the non-hyphenated title, and was procedurally closed. I think it should be reopened as a serious proposal to revert the undiscussed, therefore improper,
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622:, full online edition. It has an entry for "non-fiction" (as noun and adjective), to which you go if you search on "nonfiction", but doesn't explicitly mention "nonfiction" even as a variant - though of the five quotes illustrating the use as a noun, the more recent two (1951 and 1995) spell it without the hyphen, as "nonfiction".
754:. Your "nonfiction,(non-fiction)" means "compare nonfiction to non minus fiction", and there are many more instances of the word "non" than both "nonfiction" and "fiction" so it looks falsely like "non-fiction" is more used when, in fact, it is not. Nominator is correct. —
962:: if any of the opposers starts an RM to get the article renamed back, this category discussion can have a procedural close pending the outcome of the RM. If none of the opposers will start an RM, the category can be renamed per the (then unchallenged) article title.
767:
Thanks for the possible correction. I've removed my syntax attempt, but not my conclusions. It confirms that this is not how we were taught in schools during my
American 1960s education. 500 years of hyphenation should not be thrown away for a few decades of American
867:
on "nonfiction". While I've given the
Guardian an annual contribution for many years and read them more often than the NYTimes or WaPo, they also recapitalize otherwise all capital agency names. So, not perfect style example. Guardian claims to use Collins, but
477:
That same Google Trends shows them equal as recently as 2004. Google Trends problem is a US sampling bias. That same Trends shows that "nonfiction" is almost entirely continental US and Alaska, while "non-fiction" is Canada and everywhere around the
1288:
So therefore, in the area specifically of government, military, industry, I do feel there is a conistent delineation of some real effectiveness. so my proposal still stands. I hope that reply is helpful, to your helpful question.
1176:
excellent question. my impression is that the vast majority of categories for governmental organizations, national symbols, national infrastructure, national industries, national activities, etc use "United States." such as eg
560:, with the parentheses you are not searching for "non-fiction", you are subtracting "fiction" from "non". So of course the usage will be dramatically greater. To further prove this, merely searching the term "non"
394:— the correct ngram syntax is overwhemingly "non-fiction" for both American English 2019 and British English 2019, all the way back to 1500 CE. Also, the closing administrator should move the main article back to
533:
787:. Nonfiction is fine in BE (and is rising in usage while non-fiction is stagnating), but non-fiction is not really fine in AE, as the Google Ngram in my comment (the one with the correct syntax) shows. —
1110:
493:
My most recent copy of NYTimes MoS is 2015, but they remove hyphens for all "non" prefixes, and explicitly for "nonprofit". Thank goodness we haven't gone down that rathole for
Knowledge (XXG).
561:
431:
also demonstates that "nonfiction" predominates. Site-specific Google searches further demonstate "nonfiction" to be the preferred format by preeminent
English-language publications such as
752:
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37:
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This is a large-scale, albeit overdue, renaming that would affect hundreds of subcategories which will likely need to be listed below. Given its scope and a decade-old consensus at
459:. The trend continues among major publishers such as Penguin Random House, HarperCollins, Hachette, Macmillan, Scholastic and booksellers such as Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
662:
in 2019, in a "bold" move after no recent discussion; given the history, this was not an uncontroversial move so should not have been done without a proper RM discussion.
1955:. A consensus has developed through a variety of AFDs that team championships are non-defining for individual players. This is particularly true for youth championships.
508:
My educated guess is that dropping hyphens in Google searches is mostly due to iPhone on-screen "keyboards" missing hyphen. Android Gboard has both hyphen and underscore.
796:
Nonfiction is not at all fine in BE. There are plenty of examples of incorrect usage of
English wherever one looks: correct English is not determined by a popular vote.
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show it being moved from "Nonfiction" to "Non-fiction" in 2006, 2010, and 2015, having been moved the other way beforehand each time. It was last moved to
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Just a question for clarification: when do we use
American and when do we use United States? I am asking because lots of categories use American.
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the rename of both the article and the category. This is an Engvar issue and the article should never have been moved. What is overdue is moving
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I agree with the sentiment, but in this case it's really fine enough, for example the
Guardian uses it over the hyphenated version (
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For consistency, if we move this category we will need to move hundreds of other categories affecting thousands of articles - see
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However, for categories for individuals, or for artistic works, the majority of such categories seem to use "American," such as
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because the article was moved today, but the other articles in the category also do not have
Tournament in the title.
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I'm not an expert on Ngram syntax, but I saw an instruction there to use parentheses rather than square brackets,
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1621:- only four philosophers in this subcategory, no other subdivisions of the category other than by year, not a
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 1#Category:Homes of United States
Founding Fathers
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There really needs to be consensus for the article first, seems like there is major disagreement still.
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822:), and they did so consciously. It's accepted in mainstream publishing as a more modern spelling. —
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renaming category, per increasingly common usage. Oppose moving article to the hyphenated form. —
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The New York Times, The
Washington Post, The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, TIME
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377:(UK). The rule is that the variant chosen at first should be retained (and used in the article).
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Next time, just tag it CSD C1, an empty category doesn't require a week-long discussion.
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 1#Category:Strikes (protest)
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577:
Thank you! οἶδας. Oops, reading on, I now see that this was already explained below. –
686:
Thanks for the research. Should be used as reverse precedent to reverse the bold move.
439:. Major literary prizes in the genre further emphasize the unhyphenated predominance:
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 1#Universal Monsters
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_April_3#Category:Nonfiction
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You are incorrect about the ngram syntax, the correct syntax is "nonfiction,"
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1858:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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shows a comparatively similar usage to your parenthetical "(non-fiction)".
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The correct formatted Ngram evidence comparing actual usage is overwhelming
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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is a junior hockey league championship and is thus non-defining and fails
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Examples by nom. of similar style for other similar pages and categories:
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The Guardian should be ashamed of itself. At least the BBC knows better:
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Reason is to simply be consistent with other similar categories such as
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Category:Women articles needing translation from Spanish Knowledge (XXG)
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Category:Women articles needing translation from Spanish Knowledge (XXG)
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while the others above refer to creative individuals and their work?
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However as some odd exceptions to the above, take a look a these.
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Nonstandard, empty, already covered under "Biography" category.
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About ENGVAR: Nonfiction is much better from the standpoint of
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and this shows in a far greater usage of the hyphenated form.
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Category:Military awards and decorations of the United States
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Consistency with the main article's name. Per its talk page—
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as long as we're discussing categories.... anybody want a
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and has plenty of Guardian examples up to 2016. Moreover,
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
1644:, it is also barely a defining characteristic (only for
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The 100 best nonfiction books of all time: the full list
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2001:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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1385:). No further edits should be made to this section.
1039:). No further edits should be made to this section.
1011:). No further edits should be made to this section.
939:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
292:). No further edits should be made to this section.
207:). No further edits should be made to this section.
81:). No further edits should be made to this section.
1648:). Do not merge, the articles are already in e.g.
449:National Book Critics Circle Award for Nonfiction
437:The New Yorker, Publishers Weekly, Kirkus Reviews
1605:Category:Ancient Indian materialist philosophers
1547:Category:Ancient Indian materialist philosophers
214:Category:Homes of United States Founding Fathers
1183:Category: Local government in the United States
712:, and revert to the long-established title of
1273:Category:Performing arts in the United States
1203:Category: Baseball teams in the United States
1191:Category: Manufacturing in the United States
1126:Category:United States Distinguished Marksman
613:as a small sample of that tree of categories.
8:
1265:Category:Arts festivals in the United States
435:and literature-focused publications such as
1650:Category:6th-century BC Indian philosophers
1131:Category:United States expeditionary medals
818:). They made the switch several years ago (
618:Also, for information, I looked this up in
344:"There is consensus for the present title."
1187:Category:Architecture in the United States
1179:Category:Firefighting in the United States
304:. An RM should be opened to discuss this.
1328:Personally I find sailor caps very daper.
1269:Category:Visual arts in the United States
18:Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion
1789:Category:Men's sports in the Philippines
1690:
1080:Category:United States military uniforms
1750:Category:Men's sport in the Philippines
1691:Category:Men's sport in the Philippines
1091:Category: United States military badges
611:Category:Non-fiction writers by century
41:
1136:Category: United States service medals
1121:Category:United States campaign medals
654:as that is the form used in its lead.
33:
1195:Category: States of the United States
441:Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction
7:
1609:Category:Ancient Indian philosophers
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1199:Category: Parks in the United States
1116:Police uniforms in the United States
1463:Looking to match the main article,
1076:Category:American military uniforms
1018:Category:American military uniforms
650:was created in 2002, presumably as
1787:Empty category and a duplicate of
1261:Category:Arts in the United States
816:Nonfiction to look out for in 2023
457:Award for Excellence in Nonfiction
445:National Book Award for Nonfiction
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1879:The result of the discussion was:
1719:The result of the discussion was:
1575:The result of the discussion was:
1420:The result of the discussion was:
1046:The result of the discussion was:
350:, a full discussion is required.
299:The result of the discussion was:
88:The result of the discussion was:
1450:Category:Paradise Jam Tournament
1392:Category:Paradise Jam Tournament
1353:To align with sister categories.
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1236:Category: American short stories
1224:Category:American businesspeople
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874:Cambridge is also "non-fiction"
865:the Guardian explicitly decided
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1910:Category:Memorial Cup winners
1851:Category:Memorial Cup winners
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469:08:57, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
453:American Library Association
416:05:25, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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321:21:17, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
185:09:22, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
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110:21:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
400:This is not a US versus UK
2018:
1216:Category: American authors
233:Category:Strikes (protest)
1248:Category: American design
1228:Category: American novels
1220:Category: American people
646:And further information:
620:Oxford English Dictionary
1990:Please do not modify it.
1861:Please do not modify it.
1833:Please do not modify it.
1701:Please do not modify it.
1673:Please do not modify it.
1557:Please do not modify it.
1529:Please do not modify it.
1402:Please do not modify it.
1374:Please do not modify it.
1240:Category: American plays
1232:Category: American films
1028:Please do not modify it.
1000:Please do not modify it.
870:Collins is "non-fiction"
281:Please do not modify it.
196:Please do not modify it.
70:Please do not modify it.
1945:Nominator's rationale:
1785:Nominator's rationale:
1616:Nominator's rationale:
1461:Nominator's rationale:
1244:Category: American art
1087:Nominator's rationale:
340:Nominator's rationale:
154:Nominator's rationale:
1454:Category:Paradise Jam
879:William Allen Simpson
771:William Allen Simpson
747:William Allen Simpson
689:William Allen Simpson
511:William Allen Simpson
496:William Allen Simpson
481:William Allen Simpson
408:William Allen Simpson
1467:which was moved per
329:Category:Non-fiction
271:Category:Non-fiction
1887:(non-admin closure)
1727:(non-admin closure)
1583:(non-admin closure)
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1054:(non-admin closure)
333:Category:Nonfiction
307:(non-admin closure)
96:(non-admin closure)
252:Universal Monsters
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426:
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397:
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372:
368:
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1905:
1881:
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1857:
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1814:
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1784:
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1721:
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1641:
1615:
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1577:
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1553:
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1525:
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1496:Marcocapelle
1487:
1465:Paradise Jam
1460:
1446:
1422:
1419:
1401:
1398:
1373:
1370:
1350:
1276:
1160:Marcocapelle
1142:
1086:
1072:
1048:
1045:
1027:
1024:
999:
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959:
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914:ibrarianship
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301:
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660:Nonfiction
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158:Numberguy6
55:January 24
43:January 25
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1969:per nom.
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