Knowledge (XXG)

:Closing discussions - Knowledge (XXG)

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466:, those based on personal opinion only, those that are logically fallacious, and those that show no understanding of the matter of issue. If the discussion shows that some people think one policy is controlling, and some another, the closer is expected to close by judging which view has the predominant number of responsible Wikipedians supporting it, not personally select which is the better policy. The closer is not expected to decide the issue, just to judge the result of the debate, and is expected to know policy sufficiently to know what arguments are to be excluded as irrelevant. If the consensus of reasonable arguments is opposite to the closer's view, they are expected to decide according to the consensus. The closer is not to be a judge of the issue, but rather of the argument. 364:: Some processes, especially deletion-oriented pages, have a specified minimum length, typically of 7 full days. Other processes, especially Requests for Comments (RfCs), have typical lengths but no mandatory minimum. It is unusual for anyone to request a formal closure by an uninvolved editor unless the discussion has been open for at least one week. Similarly, if the discussion stopped, and editors have already assessed the consensus and moved on with their work, then there may be no need to formally close the discussion unless the process (e.g., 380:: If additional comments, even weeks or months later, might be helpful, then don't close the conversation. Most conversations do not need to be closed. On the other hand, when further responses are likely to result in little more than wasting everyone's time by repeating the same widely held view, then it should be closed sooner rather than later. In between, wait to see whether enough information and analysis has been presented to make the outcome (including an outcome that editors do not agree) clear. 158:
then everyone who reads the page has an opportunity to either leave the page as it is or change it. Editors begin discussions to resolve disagreements that cannot be easily resolved through the normal wiki-editing process. Many community discussions and decisions happen on project pages that are specifically designed for that purpose. If discussions involve several individuals, the discourse can become lengthy and the results hard to determine. After a while, it is time to
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discussion on the talk page. An uninvolved party might come up with a creative solution that addresses the concerns raised in the discussion. If it is a good solution, nothing needs to happen. There will be nothing more that is said, and everyone moves on. When this is the case, it often helps to leave a comment that the issue was resolved and perhaps link the edit that resolved the issue. On some pages, such as
81: 43: 1139:}} to start a review (refer to instructions in that template). In your reasoning, you should give a concrete description of how you believe the close was an inappropriate or unreasonable distillation of the discussion. You are more likely to succeed in your AN request if you focus on 1. an "underlying policy/guideline" and 2. "strength of argument". (See 818:
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515:, are not negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus. A closer must determine whether any article violates policy, and where it is very unlikely that an article on the topic can exist without breaching policy, it must be respected above individual opinions. 197:
Many informal discussions do not need closing. Often, consensus is reached in the discussion and the outcome is obvious. Disagreements in articles are often solved by further edits. For example, two or more individuals may disagree about how a section of text in an article is written and start a
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This page offers guidance on how and when discussions should be closed. There are no policies that directly dictate how to close a discussion. These information documents the customary practices that have evolved at Knowledge (XXG) in the years since it was started. These customs are grounded in
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is when the discussion is moved into an archive area. This is usually done automatically by a bot, when no new comments have been added for a defined length of time. Most discussions go into Talk page archives with no need for a summary. However, sometimes an active issue will be archived while
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is Knowledge (XXG)'s fundamental model for editorial decision-making. Policies and guidelines document communal consensus rather than creating it. Consensus is typically reached as a natural and inherent product of the wiki-editing process; generally someone makes a change to a page content, and
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This format is designed specifically for closes involving written analysis or conclusions of the discussion. Either this format or the former is acceptable for closes involving analysis (which chosen is at the closers discretion), but this format should not be used for closes involving no
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If you write only "There was no consensus", then editors may be confused about whether you meant that no general agreement was reached or if you were trying to find a gentle way to indicate that an idea was rejected. They may also disagree later about what, exactly, wasn't agreed to.
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Closing a discussion means putting a box around it for the purpose of discouraging further contributions to that discussion. Please do not close a discussion if you believe that further contributions (rather than starting a fresh discussion on the same subject) would be appropriate.
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editor may close most of them – not just admins. Generally, if you want to request closure by an uninvolved administrator, it's expected that the discussion will have already been open at least a week, and that the subject is particularly contentious or the outcome is unclear.
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All discussion closures are subject to review. Usually, reviews are initiated because someone disputes the outcome stated by the closing editor (e.g., a summary statement that some editors find confusing or incorrect), rather than the decision to discourage further discussion.
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Consensus is not determined by counting heads or counting votes, nor is it determined by the closer's own views about what action or outcome is most appropriate. The closer is there to judge the consensus of the community, after discarding irrelevant arguments: those that
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In uncontentious circumstances, even an involved editor may close a discussion. For example, if you propose something, and it's obvious to you that nobody agrees with you, then you can close the discussion, even though you're obviously an "involved"
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required to consult the closer of a deletion discussion (or the deleting admin for a speedy deletion) before starting a deletion review. However doing so is good practice, and can often save time and effort for all concerned. Notifying the closer is
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is to copy-paste the discussion back onto the original page and delete the discussion from the Talk archive. The discussion may then be summarized as normal. This enures that the summary of the discussion's outcome will be visible to the editors
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template is used to note that an issue has been resolved. The template is added to the beginning of the section, with notes that indicate what action was taken. This helps shorten the reading needed to scan the page. Similarly, the
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Sometimes, it is helpful for an editor to provide a summary statement of the outcome, if any, when closing the discussion. This optional statement may include both points of consensus and points that are not yet resolved.
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discussed how to appeal closures and whether an administrator can summarily overturn a non-administrator's closure. The consensus was that closures should not be reverted solely because the closer was not an
374:: The more contentious the subject, the longer this may take. Two signs of achieving this state are the same editors repeating themselves, and the rate of other editors joining the conversation is slowing. 1170: 1084:
if an early closure is followed by multiple editors asking that it be reopened for further discussion, or a single editor has brought forth a compelling new perspective to the already closed discussion.
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If you believe that it is necessary to make an explicit statement about whether consensus was reached, it may be helpful to consider three broad categories for summarizing the result of a discussion:
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If consensus remains unclear, if the issue is a contentious one, or if there are wiki-wide implications, a request for a neutral and uninvolved editor to formally close a discussion may be made at
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Depending on the type of discussion, a review will take place at one of several review boards, and distinct criteria are used for each board. In general, deletions are discussed at
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discourages people from continuing to post comments, while leaving the discussion on the page, so that editors can read it. This may be accomplished by placing templates such as
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documents the outcome of the discussion (e.g. "The result was to keep the page"). Outside of the various deletion processes, most discussions are neither closed nor summarized.
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When a discussion involves many people and the outcome is not clear, it may be necessary to formally close the discussion. This is always the case in discussions at
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Remember that most contentious discussions benefit from a formal closing statement, and that closers undertake to assess consensus to the best of their abilities.
717:{{Archive top |status = withdrawn |result = I've decided my idea needs some work. Thanks to everyone for the advice. ~~~~ }} {{lorem ipsum}} {{Archive bottom}} 223:
template may be used to indicate that a dispute about an important issue has not found its solution, inviting more people to weigh in their ideas and opinions.
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In closing, they applied policy X. I believe that policy Y should have been taken more into account / policy X never intended to apply to issues such as this.
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around a discussion. In addition to formal closes that analyze the consensus of a discussion, discussions may also be closed where someone, usually an
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937: 873:. Specific instructions about each case are described in the subsections below. Any editor may participate in a discussion reviewing a close. 546:. Please ensure that any request there seeking a close is neutrally worded, and do not use that board to continue the discussion in question. 231: 1042:
if the closer was not made aware of significant additional information not discussed in the RM, and the RM should be reopened and relisted.
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for uncontroversial undeletions, such as undeleting a very old article where substantial new sources have subsequently arisen. Use
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Many closures are also based upon Knowledge (XXG) policy. As noted above, arguments that contradict policy are discounted.
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because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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if significant additional information or context was left out of the discussion and the closer was not aware of it.
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instead. (If any editor objects to the undeletion, then it is considered controversial and this forum may be used.)
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if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
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process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a
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to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed);
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that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
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was close or even favored an outcome opposite the closure, if the closure was made on the basis of
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The closed discussion can also be collapsed to save space. This is achieved by using the templates
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Closures will rarely be changed by the closing editor, but can be challenged in a closure review:
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if the discussion was undertaken under modified procedural rules that the closer was not aware of.
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templates (although some particular types of discussion, such as those which concern whether to
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to ask for permission to write a new version of a page which was deleted, unless it has been
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template may be a better option or informing all parties about the possibility of requesting
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waiting for an uninvolved editor to write a summary statement. The recommended procedure at
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if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.
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to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
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After discussing the matter with the closing editor, you may request review at the
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if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
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Closures will rarely be changed by either the closing editor or a closure review:
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to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to
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Closures will often be changed by the closing editor without a closure review:
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Knowledge (XXG) core policies, which requires that articles and information be
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I've decided my idea needs some work. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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if you believe the closure was not a reasonable summation of the discussion
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I've decided my idea needs some work. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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if an editor believes the closer did not follow the spirit and intent of
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Knowledge (XXG):Deletion guidelines for administrators § Rough consensus
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For other procedures, whether formal RfCs or less formal ones such as
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Users who try to subvert consensus by appealing to other venues than
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for guidance on actually determining consensus and writing closes.
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Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Closure review archive
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Most discussions don't need closure at all, but when they do, any
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a page, have their own specialized templates). For example:
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to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
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The discussion was withdrawn by the person who started it.
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For reviewing a closure of a page move discussions, the
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Knowledge (XXG):Consensus#No consensus after discussion
27:"WP:CLOSE" redirects here. For close paraphrasing, see 884:
For reviewing a closure of a deletion discussion, the
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When further contributions are unlikely to be helpful
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
1095:if the closing editor may have become inextricably 1099:through previous experience in the conflict area. 642:The closed discussion will then look like this: 1227:Some common causes for rapid closure include: 1179:, for ongoing discussions and current requests 701:– performing such a closure is referred to as 1247:Stopping disruptive or misguided discussions 795:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 391:Knowledge (XXG):Advice on closing discussions 187:Knowledge (XXG):Advice on closing discussions 8: 1009:Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise 368:) requires formal closure for other reasons. 1267:Knowledge (XXG):Guide to deletion § Closure 962:to challenge an article's deletion via the 414:. Consensus can be most easily defined as 255:; see that page for criteria to consider. 395:Knowledge (XXG):Discussions for discussion 200:Knowledge (XXG):Administrators noticeboard 232:Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion 938:renominated after a reasonable timeframe 102:Knowledge (XXG)'s policies or guidelines 1276: 1274: 1220: 995:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for undeletion 985:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for undeletion 972:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for undeletion 476:No consensus for or against (something) 1148: 1145:The issue the closer was to decide was 1144: 366:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 228:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 896:if someone believes the closer of a 786:The following discussion is closed. 746:The following discussion is closed. 650:The following discussion is closed. 463:flatly contradict established policy 193:Which discussions need to be closed 162:so that the community can move on. 29:Knowledge (XXG):Close paraphrasing 25: 1335:Knowledge (XXG) information pages 1237:or otherwise in the wrong place. 1193:Knowledge (XXG):Non-admin closure 1183:Knowledge (XXG):Guide to deletion 473:Consensus in favor of (something) 865:, and other closures (including 822:The discussion above is closed. 759:The discussion above is closed. 663:The discussion above is closed. 544:Knowledge (XXG):Closure requests 525:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion process 79: 73:Knowledge (XXG) information page 41: 33:Knowledge (XXG):Closure requests 31:. For requesting a closure, see 1203:Knowledge (XXG):Snowball clause 1039:in closing this requested move. 585:To close a discussion, use the 251:It may be useful to close some 1233:Stopping discussions that are 18:Knowledge (XXG):Closure review 1: 1122:if the complaint is that the 892:Deletion review may be used: 479:Consensus against (something) 410:Many closures are based upon 372:When the discussion is stable 1235:happening in multiple places 1188:Knowledge (XXG):Just drop it 385:How to determine the outcome 1133:Administrators' noticeboard 1117:compelling reason otherwise 1068:Administrators' Noticeboard 809:17:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC) 779:which will look like this: 739:17:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC) 720:which will look like this: 550:Marking a closed discussion 65:Proposed since August 2024. 48:It has been suggested that 1356: 1340:Knowledge (XXG) discussion 1051: 1048:Challenging other closures 1002:protected against creation 834: 573: 555: 522: 433: 403: 388: 341: 117: 26: 1177:Knowledge (XXG):Dashboard 1031:Move review may be used: 915:or is otherwise disputed; 861:, moves are discussed at 768:Additional summary format 406:Knowledge (XXG):Consensus 338:When to close discussions 185:Closers may wish to read 168:Knowledge (XXG) etiquette 1137:subst:RfC closure review 911:was done outside of the 824:Please do not modify it. 789:Please do not modify it. 761:Please do not modify it. 748:Please do not modify it. 665:Please do not modify it. 652:Please do not modify it. 615: 503:, and be written from a 421:The desired standard is 362:Not too soon or too late 1198:Knowledge (XXG):Not now 968:history-only undeletion 928:Deletion review should 166:the core principles of 1208:Knowledge (XXG):Voting 1124:closer is not an admin 880:Challenging a deletion 618:==Discussion heading== 1013:will not be restored. 831:Challenging a closure 686:hidden archive bottom 505:neutral point of view 253:Requests for comments 987:for these requests); 867:requests for comment 259:Closing vs archiving 180:maintaining civility 160:close the discussion 98:encyclopedic article 1315:request for comment 1157:should be aware of 898:deletion discussion 869:) are discussed at 629:Discussion text... 327:WP:PREMATUREARCHIVE 172:assuming good faith 1147:(describe issue). 1019:Challenging a move 1011:prohibited content 859:WP:Deletion review 749: 676:hidden archive top 653: 645:Discussion heading 538:Requesting a close 176:creating consensus 1254: 1244: 1141:WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS 1027:process is used. 964:proposed deletion 888:process is used. 845:WP:CLOSECHALLENGE 747: 709:Writing a summary 651: 519:Closure procedure 509:violate copyright 501:original research 301:Closed rfc bottom 152: 151: 71: 70: 67: 58:into this page. ( 16:(Redirected from 1347: 1319: 1311: 1305: 1299: 1293: 1289: 1283: 1278: 1269: 1264: 1258: 1248: 1238: 1225: 900:interpreted the 847: 791: 700: 694: 690: 684: 680: 674: 638: 635: 632: 628: 625: 622: 619: 604: 598: 594: 588: 568: 465: 464: 453: 446: 354: 305: 299: 295: 289: 285: 279: 275: 269: 243: 237: 222: 216: 211: 205: 144: 137: 130: 90:information page 83: 82: 76: 63: 45: 44: 38: 21: 1355: 1354: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1312: 1308: 1303:this discussion 1300: 1296: 1290: 1286: 1279: 1272: 1265: 1261: 1226: 1222: 1217: 1167: 1129: 1056: 1050: 1045: 1021: 1016: 945:this discussion 909:speedy deletion 886:Deletion review 882: 851: 850: 843: 839: 833: 828: 827: 816: 787: 777: 773:summarization. 770: 765: 764: 752: 743: 742: 741: 726: 718: 711: 698: 692: 688: 682: 678: 672: 669: 668: 656: 646: 640: 639: 636: 633: 630: 626: 623: 620: 617: 602: 596: 592: 586: 579: 576:WP:TALKOFFTOPIC 572: 571: 564: 560: 552: 540: 527: 521: 490: 462: 461: 457: 456: 449: 442: 438: 423:rough consensus 408: 402: 397: 387: 358: 357: 350: 346: 340: 303: 297: 293: 287: 283: 277: 273: 267: 261: 241: 235: 220: 214: 209: 203: 195: 148: 147: 140: 133: 126: 122: 114: 113: 80: 74: 42: 36: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 1353: 1351: 1343: 1342: 1337: 1327: 1326: 1321: 1320: 1318:administrator. 1306: 1294: 1284: 1270: 1259: 1257: 1256: 1245: 1231: 1219: 1218: 1216: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1205: 1200: 1195: 1190: 1185: 1180: 1174: 1166: 1163: 1128: 1127: 1120: 1101: 1100: 1093: 1086: 1085: 1082: 1079: 1072: 1049: 1046: 1044: 1043: 1040: 1029: 1020: 1017: 1006: 1005: 998: 991: 988: 981: 978: 975: 970:(please go to 960: 953: 941: 926: 925: 922: 919: 916: 905: 890: 881: 878: 863:WP:Move review 849: 848: 840: 835: 832: 829: 821: 815: 814: 813: 812: 811: 782: 781: 775: 769: 766: 758: 753: 744: 728: 727: 724: 723: 722: 716: 710: 707: 662: 657: 648: 647: 644: 634:archive bottom 616: 600:archive bottom 570: 569: 561: 556: 551: 548: 539: 536: 520: 517: 499:, avoid being 489: 486: 481: 480: 477: 474: 455: 454: 447: 439: 434: 425:, not perfect 401: 398: 386: 383: 382: 381: 375: 369: 356: 355: 347: 342: 339: 336: 291:Closed rfc top 281:Archive bottom 260: 257: 194: 191: 150: 149: 146: 145: 138: 131: 123: 118: 115: 95: 94: 86: 84: 72: 69: 68: 46: 24: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1352: 1341: 1338: 1336: 1333: 1332: 1330: 1316: 1310: 1307: 1304: 1298: 1295: 1288: 1285: 1282: 1277: 1275: 1271: 1268: 1263: 1260: 1252: 1246: 1242: 1236: 1232: 1229: 1228: 1224: 1221: 1214: 1209: 1206: 1204: 1201: 1199: 1196: 1194: 1191: 1189: 1186: 1184: 1181: 1178: 1175: 1172: 1169: 1168: 1164: 1162: 1160: 1156: 1151: 1150: 1146: 1142: 1138: 1134: 1125: 1121: 1118: 1114: 1110: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1098: 1094: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1083: 1080: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1071: 1069: 1065: 1061: 1055: 1047: 1041: 1038: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1028: 1026: 1018: 1015: 1014: 1012: 1003: 999: 996: 992: 989: 986: 982: 979: 976: 973: 969: 965: 961: 958: 955:to point out 954: 950: 947:an editor is 946: 942: 939: 935: 934: 933: 931: 923: 920: 917: 914: 910: 906: 903: 899: 895: 894: 893: 889: 887: 879: 877: 874: 872: 868: 864: 860: 855: 846: 842: 841: 838: 830: 825: 820: 810: 806: 802: 798: 797: 796: 793: 790: 784: 783: 780: 774: 767: 762: 757: 751: 740: 736: 732: 721: 715: 708: 706: 704: 697: 687: 677: 666: 661: 655: 643: 614: 612: 608: 601: 591: 583: 577: 567: 563: 562: 559: 554: 549: 547: 545: 537: 535: 532: 526: 518: 516: 514: 510: 506: 502: 498: 493: 487: 485: 478: 475: 472: 471: 470: 467: 452: 448: 445: 441: 440: 437: 432: 430: 428: 424: 419: 417: 413: 407: 399: 396: 392: 384: 379: 376: 373: 370: 367: 363: 360: 359: 353: 349: 348: 345: 337: 335: 333: 328: 323: 322: 317: 315: 311: 309: 308:administrator 302: 292: 282: 272: 265: 258: 256: 254: 249: 247: 240: 233: 229: 224: 219: 208: 201: 192: 190: 188: 183: 181: 177: 173: 169: 163: 161: 156: 143: 139: 136: 132: 129: 125: 124: 121: 116: 111: 107: 103: 100:, nor one of 99: 96:It is not an 93: 91: 85: 78: 77: 66: 61: 57: 53: 52: 47: 40: 39: 34: 30: 19: 1309: 1297: 1287: 1262: 1223: 1159:WP:FORUMSHOP 1152: 1130: 1102: 1087: 1073: 1057: 1054:WP:FORUMSHOP 1030: 1022: 1008: 1007: 967: 948: 929: 927: 904:incorrectly; 891: 883: 875: 856: 852: 823: 817: 801:User:Example 794: 788: 785: 778: 771: 760: 754: 745: 731:User:Example 719: 712: 702: 670: 664: 658: 649: 641: 584: 580: 553: 541: 530: 528: 494: 491: 482: 468: 458: 431: 420: 415: 409: 389:Main pages: 377: 371: 361: 352:WP:WHENCLOSE 320: 318: 313: 312: 263: 262: 250: 225: 196: 184: 164: 159: 153: 87: 64: 49: 1025:Move review 974:for these); 957:other pages 624:archive top 590:archive top 334:that page. 314:Summarizing 271:Archive top 88:This is an 1329:Categories 1215:References 1052:See also: 952:required.) 566:WP:HATTING 531:uninvolved 523:See also: 513:defamatory 497:verifiable 451:WP:DISCARD 404:See also: 239:unresolved 218:unresolved 1064:splitting 932:be used: 902:consensus 725:WITHDRAWN 436:Shortcuts 427:consensus 416:agreement 412:consensus 400:Consensus 321:Archiving 246:mediation 155:Consensus 120:Shortcuts 106:consensus 1165:See also 1097:involved 913:criteria 837:Shortcut 558:Shortcut 344:Shortcut 332:watching 207:resolved 170:such as 128:WP:CLOSE 1292:editor. 1251:example 1241:example 1107:if the 1060:merging 1037:WP:RMCI 703:hatting 264:Closing 230:(AfD), 110:vetting 60:Discuss 1113:policy 611:rename 607:delete 511:or be 488:Policy 444:WP:NHC 202:, the 178:, and 142:WP:DCL 135:WP:CLD 56:merged 1155:WP:AN 907:if a 871:WP:AN 1301:See 1109:poll 805:talk 735:talk 681:and 595:and 393:and 296:and 276:and 108:and 1062:or 949:not 930:not 807:) 737:) 696:hat 609:or 286:or 54:be 1331:: 1313:A 1273:^ 1243:). 1161:. 940:); 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Index

Knowledge (XXG):Closure review
Knowledge (XXG):Close paraphrasing
Knowledge (XXG):Closure requests
Knowledge (XXG):Consensus#No consensus after discussion
merged
Discuss
information page
encyclopedic article
Knowledge (XXG)'s policies or guidelines
consensus
vetting
Shortcuts
WP:CLOSE
WP:CLD
WP:DCL
Consensus
Knowledge (XXG) etiquette
assuming good faith
creating consensus
maintaining civility
Knowledge (XXG):Advice on closing discussions
Knowledge (XXG):Administrators noticeboard
resolved
unresolved
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion
unresolved
mediation
Requests for comments
Archive top

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