Knowledge

:Deletion review/Log/2009 May 2 - Knowledge

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1041:
with it except some self-appointed editors have inserted themselves as authorities. This even resulted in an RfC because I had posted a link to a TfD discussion, the result?, TfDs are now offcially under ARS as well. And DrVs have always been as it is an article that can be improved to satisfy the original concerns of the AfD. As to why we don't do more? Well lately it's been a non-stop barrage of accusations of canvassing from the same editors who have routinely lobbed that against us for a very long time, with little to no evidence whatsoever that we are in fact a vote-stacking group a of inclusionists. Several of the deletionists in our ranks are quite insulted by that as well as those, like myself who aren't particularly embracing either camp. My hunch s most of us are somewhere in the middle and don't need the drama. If you have any constructive suggestion feel free to ping my talkpage as ARS has been turned into a battleground by our detractors.
2968:
a singleton writer being listed under both composer and lyricist? 3 Some less notable person than JM is known for one lyric and one composion only? Furthermore, a category is a navigation tool, not a definition of who wrote what, so anybody interested in songs that JM is involved with will go to the article and discover exactly what his contribution was. If you applied the logic that BRG is using you would have separate, say the Lennon/McCatney category into "songs written by Lennon, but credited to Lennon/McCartney", ditto, McCartney. Please note : If a songwriter is purely a lyricist or a composer I see no problem categorizing accordingly, nor putting something into the JM category to establish he is principally a lyricist who also composed music. --
2661:
AfD closed properly and is there extending circumstances that proose a better outcome. Please aside all the ARS generalized accusations, we each act according to our own interests and if there is any coordination to parrot each other I'm utterly unaware of it but also believe it to be just as ill-concieved as coordinated efforts to remove content that is encyclopedic. Thanks for the many visual cues and loaded phraseology but I'll continue to assume good faith that all are here to improve the project. If you wish to dole out shame there are plenty of more appropriate websites to do so.
2948:'s comment that "While there are many music aficionados who would appreciate the nuances of splitting a single artists songs based on what component they created, there are many more amateurs who would only be baffled as they navigated through categories trying to understand why a song they associate with Johnny Mercer isn't listed under songs written by but is instead in songs with music by" there only needs to be a cross-reference such as was done in 380:. When a deletion discussion has roughly the same number of people supporting and opposing deletion, the administrator closing the debate should take into account when determining the result the strength of arguments, and whether either side had the force of a Knowledge policy or guideline behind it. That was exactly what happened here, although the basic delete closure without an explanation of this might have been a suboptimal choice. 1778:, and lo and behold lots of ARS members turn up and vote "overturn". I am quite aware that many ARS members aren't voting machines and that a lot do good work to rescue saveable articles (including yourself). However, a number more do little else but vote Keep on rescue AfDs. ARS should be able to co-ordinate the good work that it does without becoming a votestacking forum - something which many people believe it is already. 2698:. I think editors arguing here about the borders of purely or largely etymological articles would do well to read that AfD and DRV. I still think it is a fair argument to say that we do not do articles like "Red cunt hair" (which is a very different article than "Hair (unit of measurement)") largely on the basis of WP:NOT regardless of sources noting the existence of the phrase. 518:- clearly worth keeping and far away from being a dictionary entry. Topic has a long enough history and the article was well written and had good sources. Why was this deleted in the first place? Both discussions ended very close and were within weeks. Do we repeat AfDs until an admin can be found who's willing to delete the article? -- 3493:- Nominator hit it on the head. The policy on CSD says that if its gone through an AFD, unless a new Copyright infringement is discovered, then an article cannot be speedied. The AFD didn't have much in the way of comments, granted, but it was held open for plenty of time, with no delete votes other than the AFD's nominator. 3108:
and discuss the merits there, not here, or in a more general forum. The closer said: "If wider consensus is to split all of the "written by" categories out into "lyrics by" and "music by", this can be reversed. That, however, is a very large undertaking and will require more input than this". As for
2967:
Not only did I nominate the merge, but encouraged BRG to bring the matter here for further discussion. I also notified BRB on his talkpage and at Wikisongs. Whereas I agree with BRG's comments regarding JM and writers of that era, what happens when 1. WP can't verify who wrote what? 2. What's to stop
2578:
Word articles which fall somewhere inbetween a dictionary definition stub and a lengthy well-written and well sourced article are treated in an entirely random and haphazard fashion, and might be kept and expanded, rewritten into something different, redirected, deleted, or who knows what else, based
1505:
with no prejudice to relisting for further input. There clearly wasn't a consensus to delete. If it had been me closing, I would have closed as "no consensus" just to be safe since it's actually borderline "keep" that could fall to "delete" with just one additional reasonably sane opinions as to why.
775:
members have rescued many many items and will continue to improve Knowledge in this manner. Jumping on editors for stepping out of form seems likely over-reacting. If closers on AfD and DrV can't adequately weight the many facets of a discussion that is a different issue that ARS has no control over.
2715:
the best venue to have a reasonable talk about that issue (given that emotions about the contingent outcome of the article will get in the way). I also can agree that rescue is appropriate (though just barely). Lastly, the relevance of the rescue template to the article at DRV is another issue and
2495:
sets of unrelated page histories, your redirect included, at that title. So the history merging administrator will have to perform a selective undeletion of just the history that actually went into forming the page as it stands in the draft. If it's the route chosen, give me a nudge and I'll merge
1397:
well sourced at all, despite all the claims by the people who wanted it kept and refused to explain their claim. Listing quotations of a term being used does not establish the merit of the term any more than every other word in the language. What you're doing is listing the vote rationales devoid of
1342:
to no consensus. (disclosure: I recommended Keep in the AfD) After taking some time to distill the arguments in the disucssion, I see a clear "no consensus". There were more "keep" arguments than "delete" arguments (12 to 10). The keepers basically said "it's notable and it's already more than a
774:
tag and point to the DrV - which in turn points to the AfD. Potential rescuers would need to take in all the salient stated deficiencies and see if the article was indeed rescueable. I find the toxic approach of labelling all the work of the rescue project as canvassing uncivil and unproductive. Our
748:
It seems, as a personal observation, that any AfD involving an article "tagged for rescue" has lately become filled with ARS members voting "keep" with little or no reference to guidelines or policy. Whether or not this is the explicit purpose of ARS, bringing unreasoned "keep" votes to AfDs appears
1040:
I'm not sure anyone has ever suggest vote-stacking or canvassing was OK? And ARS, IMHO, has indeed taken steps to address the perceptions of some editors such as yourself, who only see ARS as inclusionists or something. And when someone visits our talkpage with less than neutral posts we would deal
994:
Outdent. If we needed to call them anything besides volunteers you could use editors, fellow human beings, Wikipedians, etc. Anything else seems to present your POV and a bad faith assumption. Closers look at the merits of !votes not the volume of noise to signal. We know there are AfD participants
928:
I think all projects go through some soul-searching and that's not a bad thing, I appreciate any constructive suggestions and also invite you and anyone else to make solid suggestion to my talkpage and I will suss them out one by one. If we were the Article Mercy Angel Squad putting articles out of
2660:
We actually do have many articles on words. and this can be one of them. As for can it be something else, possibly but I don't have a strong opinion or interest in doing battle on the matter. This issue for AfD is can this be a good article and what is the path to it. For DrV the issue is was the
1957:
How would canvasing affect things? The majority of people said Keep, so would object to being simply ignored, and thus would choose to overturn this decision. You have some editors, mostly administrators it seems, who watch this page and seem to Endorse the actions of any other administrator, no
858:
The point is the same ARS has not and does not endorse canvassing despite several editors insisting so despite lack of any evidence. Could this user posted a more neutral post, certainly, is it fair to slander an entire project based on this - not so much. As usual, the over-reaction to perceived
763:
More accusations of canvassing of ARS yet DRV is in fact one area in which we can help. In this case I don't see what we can do without actually being able to work on the article but making blanket accusations against the whole project seems less than productive. If the article did exist we would
3163:
to the conclusion of this DRV. It was just my opinion about what should be done once the DRV was closed. I suggest the new CfD discussion be closed pending the outcome here, since having 2 ongoing processes for the same thing is confusing. Sorry if my comments were misinterpreted in this regard.
2644:
and article development expressed in the AFD discussions, and the userspace draft immediately at hand. You may well have put thought into your reply, but the end product was a poor one that was contrary to policy, when a good one was right there staring you in the face, supplied on a platter by
2374:
Should you be discussing that here, or in the AFD? If you are going to discuss it, then you need to allow everyone to see what the original page was. And this is suppose to be about following the consensus of those participating, not ignoring them and doing what you want instead, otherwise the
1355:
1 Keep per WP:NOTDIC 1 Keep Sourced, WP is not censored 1 Keep Sourced, notable 3 Delete arguments: Delete Article is ridiculous, WP:DICDEF, Not notable 1 Delete WP:DICDEF 6 Delete
1269:
And the delete arguments were IDONTLIKEIT. of the two, well sourced is much nearer to policy. I was undecided myself, & therefore didn't comment at the afd, But looking at it there was no consensus. There's no way to judge what the closer may have based the close on, as he has never said.
2120:
Shame on the people who either didn't read the policy that they were happily pointing to, or didn't put it into practice. Shame on the self-styled ARS "members" who aren't actually article rescuers, for your efforts generating so much palaver that you wholly obscured the work that was done by
1717:
is really canvassing (I'd rather say it's a friendly notice), it does not counteract our goal here, i.e. to determine consensus based on arguments. Your approach would allow any editor to disrupt any AFD/DRV process by simply posting a notice at WT:ARS or similar, thus allowing them to get any
1706:
per DGG and LinguistAtLarge. Both demonstrate that, once the ILIKEIT and IDONTLIKEIT !votes are discounted, the main arguments were about whether this article was really only a dictionary entry or did have further encyclopedic value. There were good arguments for both sides but none was really
1077:
I appreciate your insight and agree as above that maybe this isn't the best venue. My concern was to address the oft-repeated accusation that I feel should be addressed directly and I've done that. There are some valid concerns and i believe they can be addressed systematically without causing
1016:
That doesn't mean it is ok to votestack. Just the opposite. Adding noise doesn't make it easier to just remove the noise again. It makes it harder for any closing admin to properly read consensus for a discussion. I have every confidence in our AfD closers, but we shouldn't set them up for
3195:
Whoa, ease up, tiger. "Votes" in DRVs are typically taken as opinions about what the closing administrator should direct, not what we should all drop and do right away. I didn't think it was necessary to specify "at the close of the DRV", just as the other commenters did not. I did previously
914:. Even framing things using those terms is automatically divisive and puts the focus on editors instead of articles. You probably don't share my impression of what has been happening lately. It wasn't my intention to start a discussion or get into specifics here, just to share my observation. 2936:
I think a "Songs written by X" category is appropriate, with either "Songs with music by X" or "Songs with lyrics by X" used where appropriate for any where he wrote only one or the other. And for someone like Frank Loesser, who was a major lyricist but also wroth both lyrics and music for a
1618:
I'm not entirely sure that would be useful; once canvassing has taken place it is impossible to withdraw, with the result that a future DRV would be just as tainted as this one. The community may wish to consider how long it is willing to put up with what is becoming a recurring problem.
2620:
Pointing out our oldest policy to you is in no way part of any "problem", except perhaps if you then ignore that policy and continue to suggest that we should run counter to it. If anything is actually the problem, it is the lack of willingness on those who sport the ARS badges to
1392:
You've done just the opposite. This is as far from "an objective analysis of the merit of the arguments" as you can get; it's a list of votes, without the arguments. For example, notability was not something at issue but suitability for an encyclopedia. And this article was
1021:
guys at ARS the most fervent enforcers of this? Why aren't you on the lookout for anything that even gives a hint that your project is becoming (even partially) a tool to stack votes at AfD and now DRV (A DRV I might add, for an article which was nominated because it was
704:
a mechanism for voting in a certain manner at AfD and DRV would probably lead to an MfD for the project. However, canvassing is clearly indicated here, as many Keep voters on the original AfD were ARS members, and thus likely to vote Overturn here (as you can see below).
1343:
DICDEF". The deleters basically said "it's a non-notable DICDEF or I don't like it". Neither side really supported their arguments with evidence, other than the references already in the article. Thus, instead of a "keep", it should be lowered to "no consensus". Data:
1541:
Did the closing editor simply take one look at the title, and dismiss it as nonsense, or did they take the time to read the arguments from both sides? Also, those who wish to endorse this, have you actually read through the AFD? What delete argument convinced you?
974:. (Tagging an article for rescue doesn't mean that rescue actually happens. And the converse is true, too. Rescue happens even when no tagging occurs.) You won't find any silly bloc voting at either its subsequent deletion review or its second AFD discussion. 905:
Benjiboi, I don't doubt that the ARS wikiproject members have good intentions and do good work. I think perhaps the idea of improving articles and hereby preventing them from being deleted may have been co-opted by some members into an ideological battle between
449:
This probably belongs on a list somewhere, so ideally a merge would have occurred instead. But target isn't clear. As Stifle indicated, the closer ideally would have provided an explanation (and again, ideally, mentioned a willingness to merge given a target).
2036:, despite the fact that they've rescued several articles, both at AFD and Proposed Deletion. This is the nub of the problem. We have people calling themselves rescuers who actually are not, since they don't do article work. And we have people who actually 1127:
If my actions are classed as canvassing, then I sincerely apologise. It was suggested to me that I inform ARS of the DRV, and the idea that this could be construed as canvassing honestly never occurred to me; all I can do is to plead ignorance/stupidity.
2897:
In fact, I did not know the change was up for consideration, as I received a notice on my talk page on the 18th, but did not happen to be editing on Knowledge from the 18th until after the discussion had closed. So I was unable to put forth my arguments.
685:
Nonsense - ARS' remit is to provide sources and cleanup articles that are at AfD. It is specifically *not* a vote-gathering exercise. It is sad to see the cynical impression that some have garnered of the ARS so quickly confirmed by one of its members.
2986:
The cases of "What's to stop a singleton writer being listed under both composer and lyricist?" and "Some less notable person than JM is known for one lyric and one composion only" is covered by what I said earlier: "Where a songwriter primarily wrote
3109:
the particular instance: here was only one support of the original proposal; the nom himself , after introducing the nom by saying "I consider this a very contentious nomination," said "Not adverse to this suggestion" to an alternate proposal.
1290:
arguments. They were "Hey, we've been through this previously and decided to create a separate project for dictionary definitions" arguments. Have one citation, have sixteen: a dictionary definition is a dictionary definition. If only this were
2051:, but the net effect that it has had on AFD and on Deletion Review is to wholly obscure two things: the article was rescued, and (as can be seen from the efforts of yet another article rescuer in order to answer the question posed below) was 210:: The debate fell clearly within admin discretion and it's important we maintain our core principles, esp. project scope. Additionally, the arguments from the delete side were much stronger. I see no reason to dig up the buried horse. -- 2403:"... you need to allow everyone to see what the original page was." Err, I linked to the current draft. And, the ultimate goal of any discussion anywhere on the project should be to improve Knowledge. Ignore the page title. :-) -- 1736:
So if I'd posted a notice of this DRV to all the editors that !voted Delete on the AfD, that would be a friendly notice as well? Given that a very high percentage of the Keep !voters on the AfD were ARS members? I think not.
3222:
is the upstart. BRG's views are in accordance with mine on this (that 'written by' means or should mean both music and lyrics) but certainly the whole area is littered with difficulties (eg co-writers, often 5 or 6 of them).
3238:
Deletion Review is to be used where someone is unable to resolve the issue in discussion with the administrator (or other editor) in question. This should be attempted first – courteously invite the admin to take a second
2040:
article rescuers, with fairly long lists of rescues that they can point to, who aren't ARS "members". The problem here is that the self-styled "members" have been canvassing and stuffing non-existent ballots, whilst the
2610:"usages in popular culture" was not the correct path, and policy tells you that. As to what this article has the potential to be: It has the potential to be what was outlined in the very first AFD discussion, which is 2260:
is two paragraphs which consist entirely of an extended dictionary definition. So my question is: what's the next paragraph? What do the people voting "overturn" here propose to add here? How does this article grow?
1062:
I don't see ARS as all inclusionists. I see it as dramatically more inclusionist than it was when I joined in April of last year, certainly. I don't think that this conversation will really get us anywhere.
2845: 1748:
You're assuming - seemingly in bad faith - that ARS is the Borg and think, act, vote alike. Instead each is responsible for their own actions just like everywhere else. If a similar note were posted to
465:
Striking !vote. I'm annoyed with the ARS issues and the canvassing claims that keep getting thrown around in poor faith here and elsewhere. Finally L at Large shows this was probably no consensus.
859:
canvassing has done far more disruption than the original post ever did. It's also a leap of bad faith that the DRV closer isn't able to fairly close a discussion and apply due weight appropriately.
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I'm happy w/ the merge option suggested above. I still think the deletion decision was a reasonable interpretation of DICDEF, but there is some friction over the borders of that policy to be sure.
2276:
It's a language or "word" article. Some logical growth would be Etymology, History, Notable usages in literature, Usages in popular culture. It really depends on what sources provide to work with.
2074:, collectively, taken (even the nominator in the second AFD discussion was persuaded by it, once it was pointed out to xem); and the action of (selectively, see below) history merging the draft at 1474:) there, whilst many of the Keeps are vague armwaving that somewhow it isn't a dicdef or it's notable purely because there are lots of sources (at least six votes say something along those lines). 3455:
should have gone to AFD. And judging from the first AFD, there were multiple claims of importance (winning awards, reaching the International Championship of High School A Cappella semifinals) so
1718:
discussion speedy closed, which cannot be the result we want to have. I think we should just ignore this posting (for which Chzz even apologized above) and concentrate on the AFD at hand. Regards
734:
If ARS has a remit limited to providing sources and cleaning up articles that are at AfD, why was there a notification regarding this DRV? From my perspective, it certainly looks like canvassing.
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As such, clearly the action taken by the closing administrator, of deleting the article, was the wrong one; clearly following the path pointed out in the first AFD discussion is the action that
663:
in much the same way. In both cases, one should not take the attempts to pervert something into something else that it is not, by a battleground-seeking minority, as evidence that it actually
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of renaming and refactoring articles to fix them. Read the rationales as they stand, in the light of the very policy that they cite, and clearly the correct course of action is in fact
2143:
and put the article back on the path that was outlined for it two months ago — a path that is fully in accord with deletion policy and the policies pointed to in both AFD discussions.
2913:
Putting songs like "Autumn Leaves" and "Moon River" in a category of "Songs written by Johnny Mercer" minimizes the roles of the other partners in the team that created these songs.
995:
on both ends of a deletion/inclusion continuum who make rather empty comments. I think in general our closers can suss out those issues in the best interests of the overall project.
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Personally I would've gone for some merge/redirect with the unit of measurement article, but there's nothing wrong with this close. Those arguing above that Delete !votes are
227:- I personally would have closed it as no consensus, but I trust the closing admin's judgment. Also, the arguments to delete the article were stronger than those to keep. – 3156: 2625:, accompanied by vague counter-to-policy handwaving along the lines of "We can just grow a dictionary article, with etymology and quotations." when pressed for how they 246:- competently closed by weighing arguments instead of counting votes. Given the delete arguments were stronger than the keep arguments, a delete result was a good call. 2815: 2133:
discussion into a discussion of ARS and away from a discussion of whether our content and deletion policies were correctly applied for this article. You know where
1377:
Note: I am not arguing "delete" or "keep" here. I'm arguing that an objective analysis of the merit of the arguments clearly points to a "no consensus" closure. —
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on the personality of the editor who finds it, the particular group of editors who wander into the article's AfD page, or perhaps the phase of the moon that day.
1198:
I don't feel that there was consensus to delete the article. I also feel like they were just taking stabs at the apple only a few weeks after the first AFD.--
3389: 720:. Absolutely unacceptable behavior. In cases like this we really should simply close the discussion altogether, but I suppose that'll just stir up drama. -- 2811: 2760: 2417:
Doh! I thought that was a page it was merged to. Nevermind, should've been paying more attention. There are clearly a lot of references to the article.
1356:
Article is nonsense/ridiculous 1 Delete Article is ridiculous + WP:DICDEF 1 Delete Not notable 1
3476:- Having been kept in an afd, less than five months ago no less, and had claims of notability, there was not proper criteria for speedy deletion. -- 3258:
are the one that closed the discussion. Therefore, you are the one that I should "courteously invite ... to take a second look." Have you done so? --
2636:
Even now, as you point out some people's lack of adherence to policy (which is all that that essay's complaint, as quoted, really boils down to), you
2033: 3424:"If a page has survived a prior deletion discussion, it may not be speedily deleted, except in the case of newly discovered copyright infringements." 844:
is a guideline, not a policy. Not sure how that makes a difference here, though; it was still wholly unacceptable to canvass for "overturn" votes. --
78:. The original AfD was within the discretionary range and it's clear the closing admin based their decision on the strength of the arguments made. – 48: 34: 3142: 2875: 2603: 2298: 2102: 804:, which could created regardless of the outcome of the AfD if new content was added. There is a lot ARS could be doing instead of vote stacking. 659:
No, it isn't. There have been some persistent attempts by one or two editors to pervert it into such. But there were also attempts to pervert
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categories for one songwriter: "Songs written by X," "Songs with music by X," and "Songs with lyrics by X." While I would think this to be the
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I wouldn't assume all responding editors were vote-stacking at all. We are compelled to assume that all are here to improve Knowledge.
280:- Correct policy weighted close. There were a lot of ilikeit keeps, but not much that addressed the reasons why the AfD was begun. -- 3377: 1351:
1 Keep Already more than a WP:DICDEF 4 Keep Sourced, repetetive nomination 1 Keep + move to
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situations where an important piece of information is unknown. (In at least one case I managed to be able to make a good guess; see
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for GFDL compliance (see above for some of the editors who got this article to where it stands today and whose history attribution
2618:. Indeed, the current draft is an existence proof. You'll find that it's about a verifiable unit of measurement known as a hair. 1958:
matter what it is. Seriously, have those who said Endorse here, ever once said Overturn? Seems like you have an automatic bias.
880:
What else would you like a group of users all coming from the same place and then voting the same (with one exception) be called?
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You're again assuming bad faith that ARS members have stated some opinion that all articles, or at least all article tagged with
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Bjweeks made a perfectly reasonable call. I would prefer if AfDs were scheduled a bit more than five weeks apart, though with
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Knock it off, ARS has never and still doesn't advocate violating policies. Please desist in suggestion so which does violate
176: 3033:, which is a shame because you are probably correct in your assumptions and your good faith is not in dispute in any way. -- 2991:
I think a 'Songs written by X' category is appropriate." The first is a different issue, and it certainly is of a kind with
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failure. Point is, using ARS for votestacking is wrong and it brings up a question I've had for a while now. Why aren't
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That's added to the difficulty, alas! Should this draft be placed into article space, it has to be history merged with
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either music or lyrics there should be two categories: "Songs with music by X" and "Songs with lyrics by X," with the
1866:- agreed, moving the draft into article space would be ok. Someone could open a new AfD, but it wouldn't be a speedy. 3196:
apologise if my comments led to a misunderstanding, though. If you want to close the CfD you started, you can do so.
2711:
to this article. I can agree w/ Benjiboi that the discussion isn't perfectly germane to the DRV. This is decidedly
1398:
their reasoning, to make it look like the two sides were equally cogent in their arguments, when it wasn't the case.
2113:. The boldfaced words should be ignored in favour of the policies cited in the rationales, and what those policies 2032:
done by the self-styled rescuers in the second. Ironically, neither LinguistAtLarge nor Phil Bridger are listed as
1411:
All I have done is condense the arguments so the discussion can be analyzed at a glance. The closing admin probably
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You accusing other editors of voting in a biased manner certainly cheered me up on a dull, wet, Wednesday morning!
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Apparently, other editors would've given a great deal less weight to Smerdis of Tlon's argument than I would have!—
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Then close the new CfD discussion. My understanding of your comment was that you thought a CfD discussion was
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With regard to the last point in your penultimate paragraph, that's a matter I raised on the DRV talk page.—
2028:
did some rescue work in the first AFD discussion. Despite the canvassing and the tagging, there was little
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good close - arguments by those favouring deletion were obviously stronger than those favouring retention.
489: 385: 578:. The project has been approved to assess the viability of content for the project and vote accordingly.-- 1947: 1204: 1155: 801: 584: 236: 3539:
as clear process error. I have a reasonable confidence the deleting admin would acknowledge it as such.
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per Stifle (moved from "Overturn" because even though I feel the closure was in error, I agree that the
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their misery it likely would have similar concerns along another bent axis so I appreciate the insight.
610:"The project has been approved to assess the viability of content for the project and vote accordingly." 362: 268: 125: 3347: 2690:
I think there is some discussion to be had about DICDEF and its limits. We do articles on words, the
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for the moment. It's a remotely plausible search term, and those shouldn't be redlinks on Knowledge.—
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an article. And this problem is compounded by AFD and Deletion Review discussion canvassing that
1252:. The keep arguments generally seemed to be "but it's well sourced", ignoring the basic argument. 3528: 3481: 3310: 3129: 2880:
Knowledge:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 April 18#Category:Songs with lyrics by Johnny Mercer
2662: 2582: 2277: 2059:, by the time of the second AFD discussion. The actions pointed out in the first AFD discussion 1888: 1775: 1754: 1714: 1675: 1641: 1601: 1079: 1042: 996: 930: 860: 820: 776: 485: 402: 2932:
where, a person wrote both being put into both categories. Where a songwriter primarily wrote
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I think the correct procedure would have been to relist or reopen. I approached the deleting
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Well, dismissing my thoughtful reply and experienced with this type of article response with
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Actually, it's not a next paragraph, by the looks of things. It's a preceding paragraph. ☺
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on April 18. With very little discussion, the rename was approved, effective April 24. (See
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policy, so happily pointed to by the people opining to delete in the second AFD discussion,
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way of handling this, I would accept the idea that for people like Johnny Mercer who wrote
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Answered? We need the closing administrator to explain their reasoning for their action.
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The correct finding was "no consensus." "IDONTLIKEIT" arguments should have been ignored.
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posted an opinion in favor of the change; one other said "put it on hold" and one wrote
357:, notavote. Deletion had the arguements, keeping had the numbers. I don't like numbers. 3460: 3438: 2909:
music. Mercer wrote both for only one or two songs; he was by far known primarily as a
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and we don't do dictionary articles. Expanding the prior article with etymology or
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via ARS, and I cannot see the deleted article to judge the merits of the arguments.
1790: 1713:!voting a certain way but on their arguments. Even if one were to think posting at 1489: 1423:
consensus based on the arguments and supporting evidence given in the discussion. —
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discussion has been started. I didn't mean to suggest that this should be started
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Do you have any evidence to back up your fairly severe accusation of bad faith? -
2256:
A lot of people are claiming that this article has merit in an encyclopedia. The
2016:
has, possibly unknowingly, identified the nub of the problem here. This article
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than a DRV. If you had meant "once the DRV was closed," perhaps you should have
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where it could be improved. Half the votes were for the article to be moved to
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Blatant and wholly inappropriate canvassing by the person who brought this to
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shouldn't be handled under the broader issue of relevance to dicdef articles.
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to no consensus. I don't see much of a clear leaning in either direction. --
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You've not observed enough data to form a correct conclusion. For example:
401:. I believe the arguments for deletion outweighed the arguments against it. 187: 2701:
It is also fair, in my opinion, to have discussions about the relevance of
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We do have articles on words and this has the potential to be a good one.
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have been working on the articles and not bothering with the silly badges.
3541: 3259: 3245:) Was this done? It could have saved all of you a lot of typing... -- 3182: 3111: 3084: 3004: 2953: 1272: 74:– A contentious DRV for a contentious AfD. However, I am closing this as 3079:
is necessary, a case for that may exist; but that needs to be discussed
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I'm not sure yet what the best venue is or what the best course is.
2315:
Aren't those all typical things you find in an dictionary entry? -
1233:- The delete arguments were much stronger than the keep arguments. 1789:
You've unknowingly identified the nub of the problem. See below.
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unless it's a copyvio, it should not have been A7'd per policy.
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No, let's be pragmatic about this. Chzz advertises this AfD at
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stronger, so the correct outcome would have been "no consensus".
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The question posed in this section is now answered, I think.
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but they do not appear to have been active since the 25th.
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will be voted for keep when I know that's not true at all.
3309:. Unanimous agreement that a procedural error occurred. – 3067:
of the team are known to have written lyrics or music to
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are missing the point that at least there's a rationale (
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To me, "Songs written by X" implies songs where X wrote
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consensus process and AFD discussion become pointless.
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exactly the way pointed out in the first AFD discussion
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of songs, yet another treatment might be appropriate.
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not the boldfaced words that prefixed those rationales
819:. I'll look to what can be done about userspace work. 3218:
dates from 2005 so this is not a new venture; indeed
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Properly closed, no problems. Should remain deleted.
184:
No clear consensus, so should have defaulted to keep
2117:, and have said all along for about eight years now. 1488:
Within the discretion of the closing administrator.
1026:, rather than because it lacked sources or polish)? 3059:Check the words there again. What was stated there 3025:Unfortunately your solution to Ricochet fails both 2491:needs to be retained). Unfortunately, we now have 1674:You want me to cite my own experience? Duly noted. 1600:this DRV as irretrievably tainted by canvassing at 1347:Keep arguments: Keep Sourced, notable, move to 796:The article has been in user space for over a week 3243:Knowledge:Deletion_review#What_is_this_page_for.3F 2576:is part of the problem - from a relevant essay - 749:to be what happens when that rescue tag goes on. 700:I suggest you re-think that. Indicating that ARS 3426:. Whilst the discussion was rather short and a 2633:. Shame on the supposed rescuers who did that! 2645:several editors, across two AFD discussions. 661:Talk:Deletionism and inclusionism in Knowledge 620:. It is not an article inclusion thinktank. - 298:. That should've been a no consensus outcome. 1915:canvassing has invalidated this discussion).— 1110:no consensus outcome would have been correct. 891:I'd rather you knocked off the disingenuity. 8: 2999:, where I've tried to make it clear that it 3326:The following is an archived debate of the 2890:it. This does not appear to be a consensus 2874:This category was proposed for renaming to 2812:Category:Songs with lyrics by Johnny Mercer 2794:The following is an archived debate of the 2761:Category:Songs with lyrics by Johnny Mercer 1604:, with liberty to relist in a week or two. 574:about content under deletion review is not 104:The following is an archived debate of the 3294: 2753: 618:WP:ARS#What the Rescue template is not for 263:- I see no consensus to delete from that. 63: 2602:Rubbish. It's not part of any problem. 2034:Knowledge:Article Rescue Squadron/Members 2950:Category:Songs with lyrics by Tom Lehrer 2623:actually work on rescue in this instance 3143:Category:Songs written by Johnny Mercer 2876:Category:Songs written by Johnny Mercer 2638:totally fail to address the rescue work 2103:Knowledge:Knowledge is not a dictionary 614:WP:ARS#So ARS wants to keep everything? 3420:Knowledge:Criteria for speedy deletion 2135:Knowledge talk:Article Rescue Squadron 2090:be taken. The route was shown, by an 2049:Knowledge talk:Article Rescue Squadron 1846:to mainspace would be a-ok with me. - 1415:even look at the article. They should 553:Knowledge talk:Article Rescue Squadron 2916:Some persons have objected to having 7: 2694:example of a marginal article being 2228:User:Chzz/Hair (unit of measurement) 2076:User:Chzz/Hair (unit of measurement) 2047:This is a problem for addressing on 1938:Agree to speedy close, per Stifle. – 1844:User:Chzz/Hair (unit of measurement) 612:No, it hasn't. You may want to read 3564:of the page listed in the heading. 3283:of the page listed in the heading. 3003:a guess, but with good reason.) -- 2742:of the page listed in the heading. 484:good close, no procedural problems. 2556:read what the question actually is 1842:On the other hand, an IAR move of 1150:Specifically, it was suggested by 28: 2297:No, it isn't — or shouldn't be. 3128:There was no clear consensus. - 3071:While you might make a case for 1711:not rely on the number of people 3560:The above is an archive of the 3279:The above is an archive of the 2738:The above is an archive of the 1078:disruption and that is my aim. 3459:really didn't apply anyway. -- 3406:The article was deleted under 2642:their ideas for further rescue 2485:Special:Undelete/Red cunt hair 2107:itself includes an explanation 2080:Special:Undelete/red cunt hair 1751:Knowledge:WikiProject Deletion 547:: Note that this DRV has been 1: 3254:Kbdank71, it looks as though 2604:Knowledge is not a dictionary 2574:Knowledge is not a dictionary 2299:Knowledge is not a dictionary 3418:discussion in January. From 3414:in March having survived an 3220:Category:Songs by songwriter 2612:not an article about a word 397:– Proper admin closure per 3587: 3216:Category:Songs by lyricist 3075:, if you wish to say that 2640:of the original rescuers, 2252:What's the next paragraph? 2232:Hair (unit of measurement) 2226:The existence of proof at 2084:Hair (unit of measurement) 1704:Overturn to "No consensus" 1353:Hair (unit of measurement) 1349:Hair (unit of measurement) 964:Biblical definition of God 2096:Knowledge:deletion policy 2086:, is the one that should 1024:outside the project scope 970:) was not tagged, but it 18:Knowledge:Deletion review 3567:Please do not modify it. 3333:Please do not modify it. 3286:Please do not modify it. 3077:deleting the conclusion' 3063:verifiable, namely that 2801:Please do not modify it. 2745:Please do not modify it. 2631:eclipsed the rescue work 2616:not a dictionary article 2065:did not involve deletion 1818:it is not as important. 1267:Overturn to no consensus 111:Please do not modify it. 95:15:45, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 40:Deletion review archives 3551:16:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3532:16:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3520:13:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3503:01:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3486:21:42, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 3469:18:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 3447:18:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 3317:17:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3268:16:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 3250:17:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 3233:11:03, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 3201:11:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 3191:11:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 3169:03:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 3151:01:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 3136:17:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3121:16:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3093:01:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 3043:06:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 3013:22:59, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 2978:20:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 2962:19:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 2785:17:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 2729:20:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 2678:22:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2655:22:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2598:18:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2568:16:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2554:Yes, answered. Please 2550:15:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2522:12:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2506:12:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2479:09:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2441:03:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2413:03:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2399:03:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2368:02:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2352:01:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2336:02:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2311:01:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2293:01:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2271:00:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2244:22:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2222:18:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2199:12:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2181:15:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2153:12:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 2123:actual article rescuers 2082:, and then renaming to 2007:09:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1993:06:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1982:03:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1950:23:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1934:22:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1904:22:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1876:22:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 1859:22:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 1835:21:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1799:12:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1785:06:10, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1770:00:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1744:17:11, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1732:17:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1691:18:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1670:08:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1657:00:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1626:17:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1614:13:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1591:12:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1566:10:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1534:09:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1498:07:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1481:06:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1459:04:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1434:22:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1407:00:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1388:03:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1370:03:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1335:23:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1305:23:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1282:23:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1262:22:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1244:22:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1226:21:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1189:08:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1146:08:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1120:21:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1095:10:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 1073:00:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 1058:20:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1036:19:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1012:01:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 984:01:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 946:10:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 924:01:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 901:09:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 887:00:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 876:00:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 854:00:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 836:00:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 811:23:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 792:22:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 759:13:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 744:21:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 730:21:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 712:21:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 696:21:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 677:01:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 655:08:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 641:21:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 606:21:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 566:20:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 540:20:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 511:20:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 494:12:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 475:22:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 460:00:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 435:18:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 406:16:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 390:13:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 373:10:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 346:22:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 319:08:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 290:08:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 273:01:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 256:23:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 239:22:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 220:22:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 202:22:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 3330:of the article above. 3146:and have at it there. 3069:specified other songs. 2798:of the article above. 2092:actual article rescuer 802:Hair (unit of measure) 108:of the article above. 2061:could have been taken 1887:per LinguistAtLarge. 1295:somewhere.... ;-) -- 817:our civility policies 2078:with the history at 1850:(formerly Eldereft) 1826:(formerly Eldereft) 916:Delicious carbuncle 751:Delicious carbuncle 327:Struck, see below.— 3065:particular members 2764:– Relist on CfD – 2608:cargo-cult written 2127:the article itself 2030:actual rescue work 521:Avant-garde a clue 3574: 3573: 3293: 3292: 2930:very small number 2752: 2751: 2456:redirected it to 2334: 2220: 1997:Yes, many times. 1857: 1833: 1821: 1589: 1224: 1187: 1144: 885: 809: 639: 604: 523: 200: 76:deletion endorsed 3578: 3569: 3401: 3396: 3387: 3373: 3365: 3357: 3335: 3295: 3288: 3175:more appropriate 2894:of the change. 2869: 2864: 2855: 2841: 2833: 2825: 2803: 2781: 2776: 2771: 2754: 2747: 2710: 2704: 2674: 2668: 2594: 2588: 2546: 2543: 2540: 2537: 2534: 2531: 2476: 2466: 2458:Figure of speech 2437: 2434: 2431: 2428: 2425: 2422: 2395: 2392: 2389: 2386: 2383: 2380: 2324: 2322: 2289: 2283: 2218: 2214: 2212: 2178: 2168: 2072:should have been 1978: 1975: 1972: 1969: 1966: 1963: 1943: 1931: 1921: 1900: 1894: 1851: 1827: 1819: 1766: 1760: 1728: 1723: 1687: 1681: 1653: 1647: 1639: 1633: 1579: 1577: 1562: 1559: 1556: 1553: 1550: 1547: 1522: 1331: 1326: 1321: 1240: 1239: 1202: 1177: 1175: 1143: 1141: 1135: 1129: 1091: 1085: 1054: 1048: 1008: 1002: 942: 936: 884: 872: 866: 832: 826: 808: 788: 782: 773: 767: 629: 627: 582: 534: 529: 519: 432: 422: 343: 333: 316: 306: 232: 208:Endorse deletion 199: 197: 191: 185: 179: 174: 165: 151: 143: 135: 113: 92: 82: 64: 53: 33: 3586: 3585: 3581: 3580: 3579: 3577: 3576: 3575: 3565: 3562:deletion review 3428:non-admin close 3397: 3395: 3392: 3383: 3382: 3376: 3369: 3368: 3361: 3360: 3353: 3352: 3331: 3328:deletion review 3284: 3281:deletion review 3198:Good Ol’factory 3166:Good Ol’factory 3148:Good Ol’factory 2997:Ricochet (song) 2884:Only one person 2865: 2863: 2860: 2851: 2850: 2844: 2837: 2836: 2829: 2828: 2821: 2820: 2799: 2796:deletion review 2779: 2774: 2769: 2743: 2740:deletion review 2708: 2702: 2672: 2666: 2592: 2586: 2544: 2541: 2538: 2535: 2532: 2529: 2496:the histories. 2489:most definitely 2475: 2472: 2462: 2435: 2432: 2429: 2426: 2423: 2420: 2393: 2390: 2387: 2384: 2381: 2378: 2318: 2287: 2281: 2216: 2208: 2177: 2174: 2164: 2043:actual rescuers 2022:LinguistAtLarge 1976: 1973: 1970: 1967: 1964: 1961: 1941: 1930: 1927: 1917: 1898: 1892: 1764: 1758: 1726: 1721: 1685: 1679: 1651: 1645: 1637: 1631: 1573: 1560: 1557: 1554: 1551: 1548: 1545: 1532: 1520: 1426:LinguistAtLarge 1380:LinguistAtLarge 1362:LinguistAtLarge 1357: 1329: 1324: 1319: 1237: 1235: 1171: 1139: 1133: 1130: 1089: 1083: 1052: 1046: 1006: 1000: 940: 934: 908:"inclusionists" 870: 864: 830: 824: 786: 780: 771: 765: 623: 532: 527: 431: 428: 418: 342: 339: 329: 315: 312: 302: 230: 195: 189: 186: 175: 173: 170: 161: 160: 154: 147: 146: 139: 138: 131: 130: 109: 106:deletion review 90: 80: 62: 55: 54: 51: 46: 37: 31: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 3584: 3582: 3572: 3571: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3534: 3522: 3505: 3488: 3471: 3404: 3403: 3393: 3380: 3374: 3366: 3358: 3350: 3338: 3337: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3291: 3290: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3235: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3141:Just nominate 3138: 3123: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3096: 3095: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3018: 3017: 3016: 3015: 2981: 2980: 2872: 2871: 2861: 2848: 2842: 2834: 2826: 2818: 2806: 2805: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2787: 2750: 2749: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2717: 2699: 2688: 2687: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2683: 2682: 2681: 2680: 2658: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2473: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2372: 2371: 2370: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2313: 2254: 2253: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2246: 2201: 2186: 2185: 2184: 2183: 2175: 2157: 2156: 2055:rescuable, in 2011: 2010: 2009: 1995: 1952: 1936: 1928: 1906: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1879: 1878: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1801: 1708: 1701: 1700: 1699: 1698: 1697: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1536: 1525: 1500: 1483: 1468:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 1461: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1337: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1264: 1247: 1228: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1122: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 992: 991: 990: 989: 988: 987: 986: 968:AfD discussion 960: 959: 958: 957: 956: 955: 954: 953: 952: 951: 950: 949: 948: 912:"deletionists" 903: 889: 746: 732: 714: 698: 683: 682: 681: 680: 679: 611: 542: 513: 496: 479: 478: 477: 442: 441: 440: 439: 438: 437: 429: 409: 408: 392: 375: 351: 350: 349: 348: 340: 322: 321: 313: 292: 275: 258: 241: 222: 182: 181: 171: 158: 152: 144: 136: 128: 116: 115: 100: 99: 98: 97: 61: 56: 47: 38: 30: 29: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3583: 3570: 3568: 3563: 3558: 3557: 3552: 3548: 3544: 3543: 3538: 3537:snow overturn 3535: 3533: 3530: 3526: 3523: 3521: 3517: 3513: 3509: 3506: 3504: 3500: 3496: 3492: 3489: 3487: 3483: 3479: 3475: 3472: 3470: 3466: 3462: 3458: 3454: 3451: 3450: 3449: 3448: 3444: 3440: 3436: 3433: 3429: 3425: 3421: 3417: 3413: 3409: 3408:speedy delete 3400: 3391: 3386: 3379: 3372: 3364: 3356: 3349: 3345: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3336: 3334: 3329: 3324: 3323: 3318: 3315: 3312: 3308: 3304: 3303: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3296: 3289: 3287: 3282: 3277: 3276: 3269: 3265: 3261: 3257: 3253: 3252: 3251: 3248: 3244: 3240: 3236: 3234: 3230: 3226: 3221: 3217: 3213: 3210: 3202: 3199: 3194: 3193: 3192: 3188: 3184: 3180: 3176: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3167: 3162: 3158: 3154: 3153: 3152: 3149: 3145: 3144: 3139: 3137: 3134: 3131: 3127: 3124: 3122: 3118: 3114: 3113: 3107: 3104: 3103: 3094: 3090: 3086: 3082: 3078: 3074: 3070: 3066: 3062: 3058: 3057: 3056: 3055: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3044: 3040: 3036: 3032: 3028: 3024: 3023: 3022: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3014: 3010: 3006: 3002: 2998: 2994: 2990: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2979: 2975: 2971: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2959: 2955: 2951: 2947: 2942: 2940: 2935: 2931: 2927: 2923: 2922:most accurate 2919: 2914: 2912: 2908: 2904: 2899: 2895: 2893: 2889: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2868: 2859: 2854: 2847: 2840: 2832: 2824: 2817: 2813: 2810: 2809: 2808: 2807: 2804: 2802: 2797: 2792: 2791: 2786: 2782: 2777: 2772: 2767: 2763: 2762: 2758: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2748: 2746: 2741: 2736: 2735: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2714: 2707: 2700: 2697: 2693: 2689: 2679: 2676: 2675: 2669: 2659: 2657: 2656: 2652: 2648: 2643: 2639: 2634: 2632: 2628: 2624: 2617: 2613: 2609: 2605: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2596: 2595: 2589: 2580: 2575: 2571: 2570: 2569: 2565: 2561: 2557: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2548: 2547: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2507: 2503: 2499: 2494: 2490: 2486: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2477: 2469: 2467: 2465: 2459: 2455: 2451: 2448: 2442: 2439: 2438: 2416: 2415: 2414: 2410: 2406: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2397: 2396: 2373: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2358: 2355: 2354: 2353: 2349: 2345: 2341: 2337: 2332: 2328: 2323: 2321: 2314: 2312: 2308: 2304: 2300: 2296: 2295: 2294: 2291: 2290: 2284: 2275: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2268: 2264: 2259: 2258:current draft 2251: 2250: 2245: 2241: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2219: 2213: 2211: 2205: 2202: 2200: 2196: 2192: 2188: 2187: 2182: 2179: 2171: 2169: 2167: 2161: 2160: 2159: 2158: 2155: 2154: 2150: 2146: 2142: 2138: 2136: 2132: 2128: 2124: 2118: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2104: 2099: 2097: 2093: 2089: 2085: 2081: 2077: 2073: 2068: 2066: 2062: 2058: 2054: 2050: 2044: 2039: 2035: 2031: 2027: 2023: 2019: 2015: 2012: 2008: 2004: 2000: 1996: 1994: 1991: 1990: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1980: 1979: 1956: 1953: 1951: 1948: 1945: 1944: 1937: 1935: 1932: 1924: 1922: 1920: 1914: 1910: 1907: 1905: 1902: 1901: 1895: 1886: 1883: 1877: 1873: 1869: 1865: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1855: 1849: 1845: 1841: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1831: 1825: 1817: 1813: 1810: 1800: 1796: 1792: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1783: 1782: 1777: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1768: 1767: 1761: 1752: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1742: 1741: 1735: 1734: 1733: 1730: 1729: 1724: 1716: 1712: 1705: 1702: 1692: 1689: 1688: 1682: 1673: 1672: 1671: 1667: 1663: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1655: 1654: 1648: 1636: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1624: 1623: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1611: 1607: 1603: 1599: 1596: 1592: 1587: 1583: 1578: 1576: 1569: 1568: 1567: 1564: 1563: 1540: 1537: 1535: 1531: 1529: 1524: 1519: 1517: 1513: 1509: 1504: 1501: 1499: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1484: 1482: 1479: 1478: 1473: 1469: 1465: 1462: 1460: 1456: 1452: 1448: 1445: 1444: 1435: 1432: 1431: 1427: 1422: 1418: 1414: 1410: 1409: 1408: 1405: 1401: 1396: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1386: 1385: 1381: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1373: 1372: 1371: 1368: 1367: 1363: 1354: 1350: 1341: 1338: 1336: 1332: 1327: 1322: 1317: 1313: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1298: 1294: 1289: 1286:They weren't 1285: 1284: 1283: 1279: 1275: 1274: 1268: 1265: 1263: 1259: 1255: 1251: 1248: 1246: 1245: 1241: 1232: 1229: 1227: 1222: 1218: 1214: 1210: 1206: 1201: 1197: 1194: 1190: 1185: 1181: 1176: 1174: 1167: 1163: 1160: 1157: 1153: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1142: 1137: 1136: 1126: 1123: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1109: 1106: 1096: 1093: 1092: 1086: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1056: 1055: 1049: 1039: 1038: 1037: 1033: 1029: 1025: 1020: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1010: 1009: 1003: 993: 985: 981: 977: 973: 969: 965: 961: 947: 944: 943: 937: 927: 926: 925: 921: 917: 913: 909: 904: 902: 898: 894: 890: 888: 883: 879: 878: 877: 874: 873: 867: 857: 856: 855: 851: 847: 843: 840:That's true. 839: 838: 837: 834: 833: 827: 818: 814: 813: 812: 807: 803: 799: 795: 794: 793: 790: 789: 783: 770: 762: 761: 760: 756: 752: 747: 745: 741: 737: 733: 731: 727: 723: 719: 715: 713: 710: 709: 703: 699: 697: 693: 689: 684: 678: 674: 670: 666: 662: 658: 657: 656: 652: 648: 644: 643: 642: 637: 633: 628: 626: 619: 615: 609: 608: 607: 602: 598: 594: 590: 586: 581: 577: 576:WP:CANVASSing 573: 569: 568: 567: 564: 563: 558: 554: 550: 546: 543: 541: 538: 537: 535: 530: 522: 517: 514: 512: 508: 504: 500: 497: 495: 491: 487: 486:Bali ultimate 483: 480: 476: 472: 468: 464: 463: 462: 461: 457: 453: 448: 444: 443: 436: 433: 425: 423: 421: 415: 414: 413: 412: 411: 410: 407: 404: 400: 396: 393: 391: 387: 383: 379: 376: 374: 370: 367: 364: 360: 356: 353: 352: 347: 344: 336: 334: 332: 326: 325: 324: 323: 320: 317: 309: 307: 305: 299: 297: 293: 291: 287: 283: 279: 276: 274: 270: 266: 262: 259: 257: 253: 249: 245: 242: 240: 237: 234: 233: 226: 223: 221: 217: 213: 209: 206: 205: 204: 203: 198: 193: 192: 178: 169: 164: 157: 150: 142: 134: 127: 123: 122:Red cunt hair 120: 119: 118: 117: 114: 112: 107: 102: 101: 96: 93: 88: 87: 83: 77: 73: 72: 71:Red cunt hair 68: 67: 66: 65: 60: 57: 50: 45: 41: 36: 23: 19: 3566: 3559: 3540: 3536: 3524: 3507: 3490: 3473: 3452: 3423: 3405: 3344:The Newtones 3332: 3325: 3306: 3302:The Newtones 3300: 3285: 3278: 3255: 3237: 3211: 3178: 3174: 3160: 3140: 3125: 3110: 3105: 3080: 3076: 3068: 3064: 3060: 3000: 2992: 2988: 2943: 2938: 2933: 2929: 2925: 2921: 2917: 2915: 2910: 2906: 2902: 2900: 2896: 2891: 2887: 2883: 2873: 2800: 2793: 2759: 2744: 2737: 2712: 2691: 2670: 2664: 2641: 2637: 2635: 2630: 2627:would rescue 2626: 2622: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2590: 2584: 2577: 2573: 2555: 2528: 2492: 2488: 2463: 2449: 2419: 2377: 2319: 2285: 2279: 2255: 2209: 2203: 2165: 2140: 2139: 2130: 2126: 2122: 2119: 2115:actually say 2114: 2110: 2106: 2101:Indeed, the 2100: 2091: 2087: 2071: 2069: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2052: 2046: 2042: 2037: 2029: 2026:Phil Bridger 2017: 1988: 1960: 1954: 1942:Juliancolton 1939: 1918: 1909:Speedy close 1908: 1896: 1890: 1884: 1863: 1839: 1816:no consensus 1815: 1811: 1780: 1762: 1756: 1739: 1719: 1710: 1703: 1683: 1677: 1649: 1643: 1621: 1598:Speedy close 1597: 1574: 1544: 1538: 1526: 1523: 1515: 1511: 1507: 1502: 1485: 1476: 1463: 1446: 1424: 1420: 1416: 1412: 1394: 1378: 1360: 1358: 1339: 1311: 1271: 1266: 1249: 1242: 1230: 1200:TonyTheTiger 1195: 1172: 1158: 1152:TonyTheTiger 1132: 1124: 1107: 1087: 1081: 1050: 1044: 1018: 1004: 998: 971: 938: 932: 911: 907: 868: 862: 828: 822: 784: 778: 707: 701: 664: 624: 580:TonyTheTiger 561: 544: 525: 520: 515: 498: 481: 447:weak endorse 446: 445: 419: 394: 377: 365: 354: 330: 303: 295: 294: 282:Clay Collier 277: 260: 243: 231:Juliancolton 228: 224: 207: 188: 183: 110: 103: 85: 75: 69: 58: 3495:Umbralcorax 3155:I see that 2944:To satisfy 1913:inadvertent 1288:IDONTLIKEIT 972:was rescued 645:Yes it is. 359:Usrnme h8er 265:Umbralcorax 3410:criterion 3081:elsewhere. 3035:Richhoncho 2970:Richhoncho 2464:S Marshall 2166:S Marshall 2020:rescued. 2014:Black Kite 1989:Black Kite 1919:S Marshall 1868:PhilKnight 1781:Black Kite 1740:Black Kite 1622:Black Kite 1477:Black Kite 1217:WP:CHICAGO 842:WP:CANVASS 764:apply the 736:PhilKnight 708:Black Kite 597:WP:CHICAGO 570:Notifying 562:Black Kite 420:S Marshall 331:S Marshall 304:S Marshall 248:PhilKnight 59:2 May 2009 49:2009 May 3 35:2009 May 1 3461:Chiliad22 3457:WP:CSD#A7 3439:Guest9999 3435:last week 3181:that. -- 3157:a new CfD 2926:primarily 2911:lyricist. 2405:MZMcBride 2317:A Man In 2263:MZMcBride 1572:A Man In 1472:WP:DICDEF 1421:implement 1417:interpret 1413:shouldn't 1297:MZMcBride 1254:Quantpole 1170:A Man In 846:MZMcBride 722:MZMcBride 688:Fritzpoll 622:A Man In 549:canvassed 503:Fritzpoll 399:guideline 212:MZMcBride 3529:MuZemike 3525:Overturn 3508:Overturn 3491:Overturn 3478:Oakshade 3474:Overturn 3453:Overturn 3307:Overturn 3247:Kbdank71 2946:Alansohn 2892:in favor 2452:: I've 2331:past ops 2327:conspire 2141:Undelete 1885:Overturn 1586:past ops 1582:conspire 1539:Overturn 1528:wuz here 1503:Overturn 1447:Overturn 1340:Overturn 1312:Overturn 1293:codified 1196:Overturn 1184:past ops 1180:conspire 1162:contribs 1108:Overturn 636:past ops 632:conspire 516:Overturn 403:MuZemike 369:contribs 296:Overturn 261:Overturn 44:2009 May 20:‎ | 3399:restore 3363:history 2905:lyrics 2888:against 2867:restore 2831:history 2766:King of 2721:Protonk 2696:Nucular 2647:Uncle G 2560:Uncle G 2514:Uncle G 2498:Uncle G 2360:Uncle G 2344:Uncle G 2303:Uncle G 2236:Uncle G 2204:Endorse 2191:Protonk 2145:Uncle G 2053:further 1955:Comment 1864:Comment 1840:Comment 1812:Endorse 1791:Uncle G 1490:Protonk 1486:Endorse 1464:Endorse 1400:Dominic 1316:King of 1250:Endorse 1231:Endorse 1221:WP:LOTM 1125:Comment 1065:Protonk 1028:Protonk 976:Uncle G 669:Uncle G 601:WP:LOTM 545:Comment 499:Endorse 482:Endorse 395:Endorse 378:Endorse 355:Endorse 278:Endorse 244:Endorse 225:Endorse 177:restore 141:history 3512:Stifle 3241:(from 3225:Occuli 3212:Relist 3126:Relist 3106:Relist 2706:rescue 2614:, and 2454:boldly 2357:thusly 2210:Verbal 2063:, and 1999:Stifle 1776:WT:ARS 1715:WT:ARS 1662:Stifle 1635:rescue 1606:Stifle 1602:WT:ARS 1451:Edison 1238:Yeller 893:Stifle 769:rescue 647:Stifle 572:WP:ARS 557:(diff) 382:Stifle 3432:admin 3385:watch 3378:links 3239:look. 3161:prior 3073:WP:OR 3031:WP:OR 2993:other 2989:both, 2952:. -- 2934:both, 2918:three 2853:watch 2846:links 2545:Focus 2493:three 2436:Focus 2394:Focus 2320:Bl♟ck 1977:Focus 1854:cont. 1830:cont. 1575:Bl♟ck 1561:Focus 1173:Bl♟ck 1134:Chzz 625:Bl♟ck 533:Chord 467:Hobit 452:Hobit 190:Chzz 163:watch 156:links 52:: --> 16:< 3547:talk 3516:talk 3499:talk 3482:talk 3465:talk 3443:talk 3371:logs 3355:edit 3348:talk 3264:talk 3229:talk 3187:talk 3179:said 3117:talk 3089:talk 3039:talk 3029:and 3027:WP:V 3009:talk 2974:talk 2958:talk 2903:both 2839:logs 2823:edit 2816:talk 2725:talk 2692:best 2665:Banj 2651:talk 2585:Banj 2564:talk 2518:talk 2502:talk 2474:Cont 2450:Note 2409:talk 2364:talk 2348:talk 2307:talk 2280:Banj 2267:talk 2240:talk 2217:chat 2195:talk 2176:Cont 2149:talk 2131:this 2024:and 2003:talk 1929:Cont 1891:Banj 1872:talk 1795:talk 1757:Banj 1678:Banj 1666:talk 1644:Banj 1610:talk 1514:LLST 1494:talk 1455:talk 1430:Talk 1419:and 1384:Talk 1366:Talk 1301:talk 1278:talk 1258:talk 1168:. - 1166:here 1156:talk 1116:talk 1112:Ikip 1082:Banj 1069:talk 1045:Banj 1032:talk 999:Banj 980:talk 933:Banj 920:talk 910:and 897:talk 863:Banj 850:talk 823:Banj 798:here 779:Banj 755:talk 740:talk 726:talk 692:talk 673:talk 651:talk 616:and 528:hexa 507:talk 490:talk 471:talk 456:talk 430:Cont 386:talk 363:talk 341:Cont 314:Cont 286:talk 269:talk 252:talk 216:talk 149:logs 133:edit 126:talk 32:< 3542:DGG 3416:AfD 3390:XfD 3388:) ( 3311:Mgm 3260:BRG 3256:you 3183:BRG 3130:Mgm 3112:DGG 3085:BRG 3083:-- 3061:was 3005:BRG 2954:BRG 2939:lot 2907:and 2882:.) 2858:XfD 2856:) ( 2713:not 2663:-- 2583:-- 2278:-- 2137:is. 2125:on 2088:now 2038:are 2018:was 1889:-- 1848:2/0 1824:2/0 1755:-- 1727:Why 1676:-- 1642:-- 1395:not 1273:DGG 1213:bio 1080:-- 1043:-- 1019:you 997:-- 931:-- 861:-- 821:-- 777:-- 718:DRV 593:bio 551:at 168:XfD 166:) ( 91:Man 22:Log 3549:) 3518:) 3501:) 3484:) 3467:) 3445:) 3422:: 3412:A7 3305:– 3266:) 3231:) 3214:– 3189:) 3119:) 3091:) 3041:) 3011:) 3001:is 2976:) 2960:) 2783:♠ 2727:) 2709:}} 2703:{{ 2673:oi 2653:) 2593:oi 2566:) 2558:. 2520:) 2504:) 2411:) 2366:) 2350:) 2329:- 2309:) 2301:. 2288:oi 2269:) 2261:-- 2242:) 2197:) 2151:) 2005:) 1946:| 1899:oi 1874:) 1822:- 1797:) 1765:oi 1722:So 1686:oi 1668:) 1652:oi 1638:}} 1632:{{ 1612:) 1584:- 1496:) 1457:) 1428:• 1382:• 1364:• 1333:♠ 1303:) 1280:) 1260:) 1236:Ol 1223:) 1182:- 1164:) 1140:► 1118:) 1090:oi 1071:) 1053:oi 1034:) 1007:oi 982:) 941:oi 922:) 899:) 882:BJ 871:oi 852:) 831:oi 806:BJ 787:oi 772:}} 766:{{ 757:) 742:) 728:) 702:is 694:) 675:) 665:is 653:) 634:- 603:) 559:. 555:- 509:) 492:) 473:) 458:) 388:) 371:) 288:) 271:) 254:) 235:| 218:) 196:► 81:TN 42:: 3545:( 3514:( 3497:( 3480:( 3463:( 3441:( 3402:) 3394:| 3381:| 3375:| 3367:| 3359:| 3351:| 3346:( 3313:| 3262:( 3227:( 3185:( 3132:| 3115:( 3087:( 3037:( 3007:( 2972:( 2956:( 2870:) 2862:| 2849:| 2843:| 2835:| 2827:| 2819:| 2814:( 2780:♣ 2775:♦ 2770:♥ 2723:( 2671:b 2667:e 2649:( 2591:b 2587:e 2562:( 2542:m 2539:a 2536:e 2533:r 2530:D 2516:( 2500:( 2470:/ 2433:m 2430:a 2427:e 2424:r 2421:D 2407:( 2391:m 2388:a 2385:e 2382:r 2379:D 2362:( 2346:( 2333:) 2325:( 2305:( 2286:b 2282:e 2265:( 2238:( 2193:( 2172:/ 2147:( 2098:. 2067:. 2001:( 1974:m 1971:a 1968:e 1965:r 1962:D 1925:/ 1897:b 1893:e 1870:( 1856:) 1852:( 1832:) 1828:( 1793:( 1763:b 1759:e 1684:b 1680:e 1664:( 1650:b 1646:e 1608:( 1588:) 1580:( 1558:m 1555:a 1552:e 1549:r 1546:D 1530:@ 1521:▼ 1518:R 1516:✰ 1512:A 1508:- 1492:( 1453:( 1404:t 1402:· 1359:— 1330:♣ 1325:♦ 1320:♥ 1299:( 1276:( 1256:( 1219:/ 1215:/ 1211:/ 1209:c 1207:/ 1205:t 1203:( 1186:) 1178:( 1159:· 1154:( 1114:( 1088:b 1084:e 1067:( 1051:b 1047:e 1030:( 1005:b 1001:e 978:( 966:( 939:b 935:e 918:( 895:( 869:b 865:e 848:( 829:b 825:e 785:b 781:e 753:( 738:( 724:( 690:( 671:( 649:( 638:) 630:( 599:/ 595:/ 591:/ 589:c 587:/ 585:t 583:( 524:- 505:( 488:( 469:( 454:( 426:/ 384:( 366:· 361:( 337:/ 310:/ 300:— 284:( 267:( 250:( 214:( 180:) 172:| 159:| 153:| 145:| 137:| 129:| 124:( 86:X

Index

Knowledge:Deletion review
Log
2009 May 1
Deletion review archives
2009 May
2009 May 3
2 May 2009
Red cunt hair
TN
X
Man
15:45, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
deletion review
Red cunt hair
talk
edit
history
logs
links
watch
XfD
restore
 Chzz 
 ► 
22:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
MZMcBride
talk
22:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Juliancolton

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