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where I live. It was wrong for me to be accused of doing something that is frowned on and that might be the case with others especially in a college situation. I respect everyones opinions here and you are all entitled to interpret things how you want and since I contributed a lot of informatinon to this article you may think I am biased but I really wholeheartedly believe that enough evidence was provided to show that the article should be kept. I also think it is important to note that it shouldnt matter how many people on each side are voting but that if the article really meets a criteria than it should be kept even if it was outvoted because that is the right thing to do. I worked very hard on adding content to this article to to try to write it to be fair and neutral and I looked up the guidelines many times and it cleary says in the
Entertainer section that if you have a big fan base or cult following that you pass the criteria for an entertainer to be included so I am asking you to please keep the article. Thank you.
1791:. In accordance with the guidelines for inclusion of an entertainer, for Ian Erix in this case it would apply to him as television personality for his role in the "Journey Of A Rock Star" series, the guidelines say that an article qualifies if the entertainer has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following. This is listed as criteria #2 under the Entertainer heading above. Since an interactive contest was run on MySpace for the TV Series, Journey Of A Rock Star, in which Ian Erix starred, thousands of people submitted themselves to take part in the series and meet Ian Erix. This wil be evidenced by the source links I am providing below. As per such, Erix has attracted a large fan base and/or cult following who are still fans/followers of him today. This can be evidenced by the fact that he has 202,784 fans on his Bebo page and 115,710 fans on his MySpace page. This is just another way to prove that the article on Erix should be allowed to stay on Knowledge (XXG). Here are some links for reference:
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verfiable source. All Music Guide wrote a short summary on the subjects career. Just because there summary was a short paragraph, does not make it any less valid. As far as verifying the chart, it has been said before and I will reiterate. According to all sources the charts are in Europe and Asia. Places like Japan, China, Russia etc. where they don't speak english and they don't write with english characters from our alphabet. Therefore a search in
English search engines will not be of much help and I don't speak other languages so I wouldnt know how to find this info from foreign countries. In regard to haveing hundreds of thousands of fans on social networks this goes to proving that the subject has a large amount of fans or a cult following. You are right, this is not at an alternative criteria for a musicans notability but it absolutly an accepted criteria under
2102:]. I don't know why you are referring to Journey Of A Rock Star as a "self produced" show, it is a legitimate program that has been particpated in by many people as evidenced by the sources sited. It has also been established that Erix was moved out of the emerging artist section on MTV UK and he is currently in their regular artist database. This was discussed and agreed upon in a previous post. Nevetheless, yes, I am arguing that based on the fact that he has over 250,000 fans across his social network sites, 10 million views of his pages etc. that you absolutely would have to agree that he has a sizeable fan base or at least a cult following and since he fits the criteria as a voice actor for his video game and television personality for his TV projects, I think he should qualify under the
1341:. It also says that if an musicians music charts in any country than he/she meet the criteria. Again, according to All Music Guide and MTV, Erix has charted in foreign countries. This evidenced is being overlooked and therfore Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines are not being folllowed. WP:VERIFY says that "The threshold for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) is verifiability, not truth; that is, whether readers can check that material in Knowledge (XXG) has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true". Regardless of what anyones personal views are or how many friends somebody may have asked to post on a topic, there is enough evidence and reliable sources to prove that Erix meets the criteria of Knowledge (XXG).
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administrative decisions and the latter is generally reserved for criminal cases. Essentially, beyond reasonable doubt is an extremely rigorous test that seems disproportionate to the matter in hand. I say this as a avowed champion of
Knowledge (XXG)'s free content ethos and from having absolutely no tolerance for rights misuse on wikipedia.. Assigning license tags in a dispute over copyright is a matter that equates to a civil/adminstrative case. Therefore the appropriate burden of proof is the balance of probabilities. Neither checkusers nor arbitration requires a case to be proved to beyond reasonable doubt so requiring it for a case like this is entirely disproportionate.
1506:- (Full disclosure: I was a participant at the AFD, and !voted delete) Deletion review is not AFD round 2. It is to determine if the closure of the AFD was done in accordance with procedure and properly reflected concensus. Aside from the Bebo chart, all of the sources presented above were already presented in AFD discussion, and were deemed to be insufficient to meet notability by experienced editors. The AFD closure result of "Delete" properly reflects consensus and as such, there is no procedural reason to overturn the decision. With respect to the new information about "charting" on Bebo, it is not a significant music chart. --
1570:. It lists good online sources accepted by Knowledge (XXG) as meeting their established criteria for musical artists. Ian Erix is listed as a songwriter and performer in two of these resources. The All Music Guide and ASCAP ACE Title Search. This should be enough to matter of factly qualify the article as it has met the Knowledge (XXG) criteria. How can editors go against the published guidelines and criteria established in Knowledge (XXG) and deem them unsuffient when the mood strikes. You are throwing the rule book out the window by doing that.
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Guide is even signed by their Author. There is no evidence that their short statements about Ian Erix are anything but factual. And
Knowledge (XXG) articles need only reflect what has already been published by verifiable independant sources. Knowledge (XXG) trusts and accepts MTV and ALl Music Guide as sources in almost every single wiki article about a musical act. But in this instance they are not trustworthy? That is a double standard and completely biased and unfair.
1661:? It is entirely unrelated to this discussion. Please stop pasting in material from other pages and discussions. Those who argued delete, had all looked for further sources per that section and found nothing that established notability. You may disagree with that, but simply re-stating the guidelines over and over, with your own (wrong, in my view) interpretation of them, isn't going to accomplish anything but turn this discussion into a wall of repetitive text.
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prominent representative of the pop punk/emo/scene music and fashion subculture, as reflected by his chart position here. I don't know how to create a direct link to the chart, but to view it yourself you can click the link below, scroll down to the
Samsung Bebo Music Chart and choose "View Top 100". Then you must choose the tab that says "By Genre - Make sure to select "Pop Punk" from the pull down menu.
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260:. Make sure it is referenced properly to independent reliable sources which establish its notability and that it contains not even a hint of advertising or promotion. Then come back here to ask for a review of your draft and its transferral to article space. If you have any connection whatsoever to this company or its staff, you should also declare it openly. I'd also suggest asking editors at
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self-produced "reality show" which he has uploaded to YouTube? And you are documenting this claim to a cult following and large fan base solely via Erix's blog, MySpace and Bebo pages? Apart from the multiple single-purpose new accounts which have shown up here to parrot this argument, you'll be hard pressed to find an experienced editor who would agree.
1212:, criteria #7 states that a musical artist may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria: 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Knowledge (XXG) standards, including verifiability.
1870:, that is not meant to be stretched to cover pop artists IMO, and even if it were, we still have no verifiable proof that any song penned by this person has ever charted anywhere at any time. allmusic.com attempts to be an aggregator of every piece of music and musician possible; having an entry there doesn't amount to much either.
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artist are the top 13 in the genre, where Erix is #1. This is all just a side note though. The fact that All Music Guide and MTV have published about Erix and verified that his music has charted in the Top 10 of foreign countries cannot be argued and therefore the decision to delete his article should be overturned.
1866:- The consensus was read correctly at the AfD, no problems there. The attempts, both at the AfD and here, to make this person satisfy the musician notability guidelines simply fall short. Having fans on social networking sites does not count towards the wikipedia's notability guidelines, I'm sorry. As for
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as being verifable and good trusted sources back up the merit of the subject who the article is aobut. A link to written information published by MTV UK about the subject has also been cited above several times. This, at very least, brings the count to 3 independant sources. It doesnt make sense to
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a reliable source. Their "charts" are compiled by the number of recent clicks (however defined) on the artist's profile. Erix came "first" with 41 clicks in a small sub-genre of 13 artists. In the overall ranking, that was place 110. Note also that of the five "keep" !votes in the AfD, four were from
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Based on this ticket - which isn't a release by the way but a request for information - and the discussion I'd say on the balance of probabilities that the image was most likely the 1911 edition and therefore PD. I don't quite get why we are expected to prove these things to beyond reasonable doubt.
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Yes, I was blocked for a day but it was in error as I did not do anything wrong. I do understand how the
Entertainer guidelines apply and Ian Erix qualifies in a few ways. As a voice actor since he is playing and voicing a character in an upcoming video game, there were source links to this in the
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I can understand some of the arguments on both sides here but I think ultimately the article meets the
Entertainer guidelines because this guy does undeniably have a fan base and he is an entertainment personality with music and tv projects. So under the Entertainment guidelines of having a big fan
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A 2-sentence blurb on Erix's MTV profile, and a four sentence one on
Allmusic, both of which merely repeat his own publicity releases do not begin to meet this requirement. And they certainly don't verify his chart "success". The fact that no one, including you, can provide the name of the national
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is in absoultely no position to matter of factly state where their information is from or what it was based on and to belittle their statements on Erix or question their journalism by suggesting they copy publicity blurbs. They are both independant music authorties and the information on All Music
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Warner is a major label and publisher and Erix is listed on their roster in
Scandinavia. Erix has written "Confessions Of A Killer" and the album from which it was taken, and according to All Music Guide, it has been notable in foreign countries. All Music Guide is listed as a most reputable source
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is abusing their editing power in the use of speedy deletion. I would appreciate it if an administrator could please look into this issue and let me know what they think. I find it a bit absurd that a prominent
Canadian Jewish artist cannot be added to a list of Canadian Jewish artists when there
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I don't think anyone should just endorse based on the sock/ip matter. I don't really understand how it works and to be honest and give full disclosure I got accused of sock puppets or something like that but I really only posted as myself legitimately, but I have a shared IP that many people use
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Since Ian Erix is #1 in the genre of Pop Punk as reflected by The Samsung Bebo Music Charts, and he has over 200,000 registered fans on his page, I think a solid argument can be made that he meets criteria #7. FYI, Bebo is quite popular with youth in UK, Australia and New Zealand where Erix is a
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1. Have an email from the site host of the pic in question (new info). 2. Close was done without really adressing the key issues (was hard to get a candid statement as to what exact objects were, also unclear if objectors had seen screens in question). It's unfortunate, but I feel AFD and the
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I previously argued that the All Music Guide and MTV articles were sufficient to qualify the article under musician guidelines and I stand by that although some editors may choose to disagree. However, I would also like to point out that the new argument stating that the article qualifies under
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applies to Actors, voice actors, comedians, opinion makers, models, and television personalities, not to musicians. Are you now arguing that Erix is primarily notable as a TV personality not a musician? This is presumably based on him having a video in the MTV "emerging artists" section and his
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The new information was just that, new, and it does speak to the fact that Erix is a prominent representative of a certain subgenre in the Bebo community. Anyone on that site knows that the clicks they refer to are by the thousand, so the 41 clicks this week represents 41,000 clicks and the 13
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I am new to this website, but I have spent a significant amount of time reviewing the pages on notability, deletion, and editing. I am having an extremely hard time adding a prominent Jewish Canadian artist to this Wiki page: Norman Leibovitch. I have included sources which state that he is:
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Seeing as we've got a RS saying the image is free, I'm not seeing the need for deletion. But given the nature of the dispute and my own lack of knowledge on the topic, I think asking for a new discussion at PUF is the best way forward so that those who understand free images can get involved.
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The community simply cannot deem somethinng insufficent when it goes directly against Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines and Criteria. Any consensus to delete goes against the printed Knowledge (XXG) Guidlines which this article has met. The paragraph below titled "Resources" was taken directly from
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The AFD consensus was unjust and completley ignored Knowledge (XXG) Guidlelines. Reliable sources have been repeatedly listed and there is no reason to go against standard wikipedia protocol and ignore published sources like All Music Guide and MTV. Read the statments above it explains this
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Ian Erix article should be kept based on the above listed merits. All Music Guide is a reliable source. No question. MTV is also an independant reliable source. I agree with the closing arguments from the AFD page which members may have overlooked. There is no valid reason to ignore these
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MTV does not just have a 2 sentence blurb. There is an MTV NEWS interveiw with the subject that is published to their website. That is a published "work". They also have published live performances of the subject and those can be deemed creative works which are published by an independant
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a deletion review is not the place to re-state over and over again what was argued unsuccessfully at the AfD. The MTV and Allmusic sources were basically very brief variations on the artists' own publicity blurbs and were clearly based on them. Both had vague assertions about hit singles, no
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The burden of proof isn't in dispute, what is in dispute if the strength of the required test. There are generally two legal standards of proof(in the UK at least where I am from) - the balance of probabilities and beyond reasonable doubt. The former is generally the test for civil and/or
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I have stuck through "Overturn and Undelete Articles". You have already !voted "Keep" in your first comment here. One !vote per editor—the rest are "comments". Please do not keep repeating your vote. This is the second time your multiple !votes have had to be struck through.
1892:. So at the very least if you won't agree about my other assertments, which I think have been sufficiently proven, you absoleutly cannot deny this fact and the deletion could be overturned on the grounds that the subject qualifes under the guidelines for entertainers.
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AfD closure and recent A7. Both are fairly clear-cut cases. Lanie, I echo the suggestion that you write a draft before attempting to create this again, so that you are more likely to receive feedback on it before it is nominated for deletion again. Cheers.
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continues to delete my entry based on lack of references or article. While there is currently no Knowledge (XXG) article on Norman Leibovitch, there are plenty of other names on that list which also have no articles, as well as NO REFERENCES. I believe that
1682:. This AFD was done properly. The correct procedures were followed throughout the process. The reasoning for deleting the article was sound. The subject, even with the new evidence given above, clearly does not meet the notability requirements at
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were cited as sources for this musical artist. I have contacted the adminstrator and he/she suggested a deletion review. I believe his/her decision to delete should be overturned and that the page should be restored and kept. Thank you.
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Please note this is just new information but regardless of this particular chart, I still feel the article meets enough other criteria to be kept on other merits, even without this new info. Thank you very much for your consideration.
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reads: "The threshold for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) is verifiability, not truth; that is, whether readers can check that material in Knowledge (XXG) has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is
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clearly. It is my contention therefore that the closure was not done properly because the evidence was not weighed properly. Consensus should not be based on how many votes were tallied for each side. It should be about facts.
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In addition to all the previous arguments I have setforth and still stand by, I would also like to point out another way that I have recently discoverd that qualifies the Ian Erix article to be included in Knowledge (XXG) as per
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original article. And yes, he is also a television personality, having appeared in Journey Of A Rock Star but also other shows. Here is a link to him appearing in Rockumentary, a television show about him moving to Japan.
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information as to what chart, where, when, what place the song achieved. The MTV blurb didn't even mention a particular song. Note that evidence of simply having been published, even with an established company, does not
1481:(Note: You may have to log in to the Warner Bros. website to view the roster as their content is protected, however, the information is public and it is free to log-in and see Ian Erix on their roster here:
706::The discussions closure I endorse, however provided this new OTRS - if it gives enough information to verify it's source than undelete. To Spartaz and Stifle - the reason to "prove these things" is in the
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I believe the closer interpreted the debate incorrectly and the last post in the AFD discussion clearly proved that the article was suffiently sourced under Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines. Links to
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this is highly indicative. As for using fan/viewing numbers on a subject's social network sites and YouTube to assert notability, I've never known that to succeed at an AfD. Such figures are
1450:, Ian Erix has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition. His writing and subsequent major label publishing of the songs can be verified at this link
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1773:- I believe that no editor should have the right to dismiss well respected published sources and there is no evidence to prove that MTV and ALL Music Guide reported anything incorrectly.
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close. There were no procedural irregularities. The consensus amongst uninvolved editors was delete per no evidence in reliable independent sources of passing any of the crteria at
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MTV This was evidenced in the debate and ufairly overlooked. As per Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines, if 2 indepandant sources publish about a musician than he/she meets the criteria
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like have gotten contentious so that people are not really freely sharing info and discussion. 3. Also (sorry, this one is a bit processy), should have been at PUF, not FFD.
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I have struck through your "overturn" !vote in this comment. You have already said that in your previous comment. You only !vote once. Anything else is a comment.
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Canadian, Jewish, an Artist, and was prominent prior to his death in 2002. This seems to be the qualifications for adding someone to a list such as this.
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411:– Undelete. The new evidence seems to be heavily in favor of PD as Spartaz notes, so I am not relisting; however, anyone can do so if they wish. –
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Information about Erix and his accomplishments in the music industry is published on All Music Guide and MTV, both reliable and verifable sources.
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create a new article when and if there are independent references from reliable sources which clearly attest to notability. See my comment above.
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for the reasons I listed at the original review, and based on whatever new information about said image has been gleamed from the email.
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It has just come to my attention that Ian Erix is currently #1 on The Samsung Bebo Music Charts. Under the guidelines found at
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is quite valid. I do not think Erix's fanbase can be disputed by anyone and therefore I think the article must be kept.
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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I will provide external verifiable references to reinstate the article, as it was AfD for the lack of these.
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How can you say that? The article clearly meets the criteria setforth under the guidelines of
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Keep - This disucssion can quite simply be summed up by following the Wikipeida Guidelines.
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It was rather more than just getting "accused of sockpuppets". You were blocked after
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I agree that the article at the very least clearly meets criteria for inclusion under
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are sufficient sources to show that he meets the criteria for the page. Thank you.
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may turn something up. For material that has captured the attention of academics, a
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771:– No deletion or XfD close to review. Talk about it on the article's talk page. –
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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First and most importantly, please note the first paragaph taken from
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Note: I was one of the editors !voting "delete" in the original AfD.
248:? Note that this subject has also been speedily deleted recently as
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Therefore, I submit that the following two sources, All Music Guide
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As listed in the Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines for songwriters here:
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one of the alternative criteria for a musician's notability.
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base or cult following we must allow his page to be kept.
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Correct call and please keep the flash mob off this page.
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re-listed for review here. So what are you talking about?
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sources. See copy of last AFD post below which explains:
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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of a similar project for help and advice on your draft.
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in terms of sales, airtime or even downloads. Nor is
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Deletion review/Log/2011 March 2
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due to sock/IP flood; raises a big red flag for me.
1605:utilities are invaluable. When looking in depth, a
199:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
1428:] , should be sufficent enough to justify a Keep.
1331:http://www.allmusic.com/artist/ian-erix-p741443
244:be overturned? Or are you asking about the two
1613:may work. An experienced editor also provides
1744:make a song notable, and it certainly is not
1018:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
242:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Queplix
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1220:http://www.bebo.com/Bands.jsp?MID=3258098047
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1483:] Krties (talk) 00:59, 9 March 2011'
1335:http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/ian-erix
638:That seems the wrong standard to me.
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2002:echo what jennifersbodie said!
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604:Sent, attention your user name.
385:The above is an archive of the
240:: Are you asking that the 2006
18:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion review
2126:Overturn and Undelete Articles
583:The email should be sent into
219:This nomination was listed at
1:
2075:this sockpuppet investigation
1008:on the part of others and to
712:Knowledge (XXG):Verifiability
664:Agreed, makes perfect sense.
1653:Why have you pasted in here
250:Queplix Virtual Data Manager
618:It's in the OTRS system at
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1797:] 115,710 fans on MySpace
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1700:04:52, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
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943:01:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
891:Talk:List of Canadian Jews
882:02:16, 9 March 2011 (EST)
734:17:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
724:12:24, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
657:14:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
643:04:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
627:04:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
547:undelete and relist at PUF
432:07:27, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
376:00:13, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
356:08:43, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
333:08:43, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
297:07:52, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
84:10:53, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
1826:"has been the subject of
1800:] - 202,784 Fans on Bebo
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579:14:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
560:12:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
541:10:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
340:Endorse original deletion
274:20:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
233:12:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
209:12:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
183:01:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
2183:Please do not modify it.
1611:search on Google scholar
959:Please do not modify it.
919:Please do not modify it.
799:Please do not modify it.
752:Please do not modify it.
448:Please do not modify it.
392:Please do not modify it.
100:Please do not modify it.
40:Deletion review archives
1258:single purpose accounts
1050:; accounts blocked for
1020:single-purpose accounts
990:policies and guidelines
938:– Deletion endorsed. –
893:, not deletion review.
683:) 07:51, 13 March 2011
620:Ticket:2011030910014184
74:– Deletion endorsed. –
1651:Comment re "Resources"
1599:ASCAP ACE Title Search
647:I agree with Spartaz.
2077:. Be that as it may,
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1993:few or no other edits
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1718:ignore these facts.
1603:BMI Repertoire Search
810:List of Canadian Jews
768:List of Canadian Jews
697:few or no other edits
311:few or no other edits
262:WikiProject Computing
2027:outside this topic.
1995:outside this topic.
1956:outside this topic.
1333:All Music Guide and
699:outside this topic.
313:outside this topic.
1575:For Reference from
1002:by counting votes.
981:not a majority vote
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796:of the page above.
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59:9 March 2011
58:
35:2011 March 8
2023:) has made
1991:) has made
1952:) has made
1942:174.252.4.6
1929:174.252.4.6
1868:WP:COMPOSER
1832:non-trivial
1688:WP:Creative
1659:WP:MUSICBIO
1448:WP:COMPOSER
1339:WP:MUSICBIO
1245:WP:MUSICBIO
1210:WP:MUSICBIO
1154:—Preceding
940:Chick Bowen
710:section of
695:) has made
309:) has made
283:—Preceding
1426:] and MTV
986:discussion
624:Courcelles
44:2011 March
1581:Resources
1466:WP:VERIFY
1408:WP:VERIFY
1042:canvassed
1036:canvassed
995:consensus
875:117Avenue
870:117Avenue
76:T. Canens
2097:Response
2000:Undelete
1989:contribs
1963:Undelete
1950:contribs
1921:Undelete
1828:multiple
1746:de facto
1742:de facto
1715:WP:Music
1711:WP:Music
1684:WP:Music
1592:Allmusic
1577:WP:MUSIC
1568:WP:MUSIC
1362:contribs
1350:unsigned
1156:unsigned
1151:Overturn
1087:Ian Erix
1074:username
1068:{{subst:
1062:username
1056:{{subst:
1046:username
1040:{{subst:
1030:username
1024:{{subst:
935:Ian Erix
880:Zkamel86
774:lifebaka
681:contribs
669:unsigned
662:Undelete
565:Undelete
367:lifebaka
285:unsigned
281:Relist
192:Relisted
175:Lanie318
20: |
2130:Comment
2049:Comment
2032:Endorse
1911:Spartaz
1907:Endorse
1885:Comment
1767:Comment
1707:Comment
1692:4meter4
1615:a guide
1590:or the
1563:Comment
1523:Comment
1504:Endorse
1241:Endorse
1142:restore
1106:history
1038:users:
859:restore
829:history
731:Spartaz
704:Comment
640:Spartaz
520:restore
505:article
478:history
413:King of
361:Endorse
252:and as
238:Comment
166:restore
130:history
111:Queplix
71:Queplix
2139:Kuelar
2036:Stifle
1839:verify
1720:Kuelar
1619:Kuelar
1585:Freedb
1491:Kuelar
1411:true".
895:Cunard
649:Stifle
588:Stifle
571:Gyrobo
279:Relist
225:Cunard
201:Cunard
2071:Reply
1822:Reply
1737:Reply
1657:from
1541:Reply
1128:watch
1121:links
1016:Note:
851:watch
844:links
552:Hobit
500:watch
493:links
152:watch
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