1431:, in the sense that we can't trust that what they print is true. What I'm arguing is that they are a niche publication, with a very narrow focus, and as such, they are not a good indicator of the notability of a topic. My earlier comment on this topic went off on a bit of a tangent, I've struck that part. The narrower the scope of a publication (be that geography, or subject matter), the less significance we should confer on their publishing something. PCGamer is clearly a publication with a very narrow scope. They are likely to publish something on pretty much anything that happens in the gaming world. That doesn't make it notable in my book. A media outlet which focuses on sports in general (say, ESPN, or Sports Illustrated), is more selective in what they publish, so I afford greater weight to them as a source when it comes to judging notability. And, a general-interest outlet with global scope (say, The New York Times, or the BBC), by nature of their broader scope, will be even more selective. So, I give them even more weight. In this particular case, the sources are mostly (yes, I know, not exclusively) very narrow-focused outlets, and not ones that I would weigh very highly when it comes to judging notability. And, yes, it's a judgement call. There's no fixed list of things, from which if you can check off enough boxes, the notability indicator lights up. --
2110:- I can see we mostly all agree on these few points: the first AFD correctly concluded with deletion, and the first DRV correctly ended with consensus to userfy. So far so good. Prisencolin then improved it with new sources, moved it back to Draftspace and submitted it. Then it was declined at AfC, and a few hours later, approved at AfC with minor changes since the decline and moved to mainspace, where it was AfD'ed again. Prisencolin suggested moving it back to draftspace saying he wasn't done improving it to meet the concerns of the first AfC decline, and there seemed to be general agreement (included from Prisencolin) that the second AfC review was approved without enough regard for the concerns of AFD1 nor the first AfC decline. I thus thought the best course of action was to move it back to draftspace where it
1127:, that is the point exactly, there does not need to be new sources when the current sources already pass GNG. I think we can all agree this passes. Review the sources I listed. They have labeled him having a "multi-million dollar" influence on the LoL community and is the leader of one of the largest League teams. Applying common sense suggests meeting GNG is unquestionable. If you have issues with the sources discussed please compare them to a player you consider notable, show me what kind of sources you are looking for if repeated coverage on ESPN does not suffice. As of right now, every endorse is a
905:
claimed that the team’s new owner, Christopher “MonteCristo” Mykles, had an under-the-table deal to give former owner Chris Badawi, who was permanently banned from owning an LCS team a year prior, a stake in the team if his indefinite ban was lifted. Riot also alleged the team created an “unsafe environment” for players and that the team “deliberately misled” Riot about a corporate relationship with
Challenger side Team Dragon Knights (TDK) pertaining to a player trade the teams made late in the Spring season.
1495:. OK, it was already deleted three times, and I can understand some editors are becoming increasely annoyed by this topic resurfacing again and again, but AfDs are not the terminus and Knowledge is not a bureaucracy. Enough RS which were not analyzed in previous AfD discussions have been provided. As long as most of them are reliable and significant, the proper place to discuss them is a new AfD, and there is no reason to prevent the recreation of the article with a different/improved sourcing.
97:
the AfDs did not comment on the new souces, there does not seem to be a clear consensus on them with arguments being raised in either direction (Too "niche"? Reliable enough? Too much like an opinion column? Or too dependent on it? Respected magazine?) and the numbers don't help. At the end of the DRV, a number of users opined to allow recreation on the basis of these new sources and optionally a third AfD to definitively settle whether the new sources support an article under
824:. I am not comfortable that the most recent AfD resulted in a fair and representative outcome. It was speedily closed in less than 24 hrs, and was clearly dominated by participants in the previous DRV brought there by Sandstein's ping (which I realize was not his intention), who mainly commented on their frustration with the article's deletion-process history rather than on the substantive question of notability. I don't mean to suggest that
639:- this DRV does nothing but re-argue the AfD. Nothing has changed since the last AfD. The purpose of DRV is not to keep re-re-re-re-arguing AfDs in the hope of finally ending up with a sufficiently inclusionist audience. Looking forward to seeing you re-argue the AfD a third time next week after this article is userfied, restored to mainspace unchanged, and correctly G4'd. That stratagem worked last time, over my objections.
853:, yes every close against this was wrong, if we based arguments on consensus based arguments this should be closed as no consensus. The three rejections at AfC were wrong, yes this is all possible, and the idea to maintain incorrect closure is ... well, obviously wrong. This subject has received significant coverage from independent reliable sources, far beyond what is required for WP:GNG
970:, I don't know what is. Later, the person is revealed to have abused sockpuppet accounts, ClubJustin seizes the opportunity to delete this page and several others as well that he wasn't able to before, and presumably voting solely on the basis of its association with sockpuppetry and without even considering the sources. Furthermore, it should be noted that he also voted only after
1470:
subject specific over general coverage - see how your NYT fares against a MEDRS source then), all the gay publications that cover the LGBT area and so on. We are not talking 'Paperclips
Monthly' here. Its one of the oldest and independant gaming magazines still in print. You might as well exclude EDGE as well. I am starting to think this really is a case of 'IDONTLIKEIT'.
1001:- Consensus at both AFDs were to delete, To a point I think the 2nd AFD was closed a tad early however leaving it open would only of gotten more delete !votes anyway, Personally I think this (and the draft) ought to be deleted and everyone just focus on improving the project instead of rebringing everyone to DRV over and over again and arguing it all to death. –
2131:, it's all the same to me. I won't specifically comment on the merits of whether I think it is ready for mainspace or not because I see all the regular DRV closers have commented and have a feeling I might be asked to close this DRV2 (unless y'all think my previous closures make me WP:INVOLVED, but I personally don't consider myself involved editorially).
1450:
sources. Sources describe the subject as influencing "millions of dollars of future revenue and sponsorship opportunities" and "team owner" of the leading eSports team, Renegades. The team was subjected to "the largest disciplinary action in esports history", this is all highly indicative of notability.
2024:
Actually yes. You need to demonstrate that a source is not reliable when consensus has already decided it is. The usual place for this is opened a discussion at the RS noticeboard to see if consensus has changed. As you have spectacularly failed to demonstrate the new sources are not reliable, there
1552:
a ticket to a new AfD, then what we would actually be doing is creating an incentive to add new sources to an article at the rate of one or two at a time; because that lets you repeat the discussion until it works out in your favour. (Prisencolin is an established editor with a history of following
1042:
The field of eSports is patently a minefield which, despite my best efforts, doesn't seem to be close to being solved. Everything that goes to AFD winds up being a no consensus or a contentious deletion that ends up being brought to deletion review. I see no reason that this should be overturned and
737:
employees. So, with an average of 2.5 employees (which includes everybody from the CEO down to whoever restocks the office coffee pot) per property, how much editorial judgement do you think they're applying? The answer is, pretty much none. They search the internet for anything that's related to
527:
I'm saying that the espn article was about those two things, MontrCristo's own documents and video would be a primary source, so not to be considered for notability purposes. The Espn article has the look and feel of an op-ed, but it's not posted in a dedicated op-ed section and its also written by
454:
three times in the past few days, on what basis are we supposed to overturn that? Oh, I guess all the AfC reviewers were just wrong too? I also reject the concept of The Daily Dot as a source on which we base notability. It's hardly better than a blog. It didn't even exist 5 years ago. On their
329:
The AFC editors have commented on the article's supposed lack of notability. However the sources that are on the page right now should be enough to pass GNG. I guess they're just rejecting the draft by default only because the article itself is not a whole lot different from the AFD'd version, and I
96:
and potentially a new AfD, given that new sources have been brought up and the reviews of the AfC submission questioned on the claim that the declines were predicated on the AfDs for prior versions of the article rather than the merits of the draft. Many commenters who endorsed the prior closures of
81:
There are a few conclusions to take from this. First, that the article was DRV'ed so soon after the previous deletion reviews and AfD discussions may not have been the best idea judging from the tone of some of the replies. Sometimes waiting a bit before rehashing a many-times discussed subject is a
2092:
of deciding whether this content has sufficient independent reliable sourcing to merit and article, and instead evaluate only the arguments made for or against the existence of sufficient sourcing to merit a
Knowledge article. Really, people, this is not rocket science: our rules do not exist in a
1767:
The second delete vote cited "only mentioned in passing" as the reason for deletion. Now, at least in light of recently published sources this would be invalid, however even with sources published as of May 14, but not in the article at the time, it should've passed GNG. No one seemed to comment on
1723:
From reading the decline templates on the draft I would say they are competant enough to operate the process, I wouldnt say they are applying the GNG particularly well. As there are multiple independant reliable sources on the draft, to decline it explicitly for lacking those indicates they believe
1449:
is unreliable because they only publish topics notable in the field of medicine. PCGamer is an expert in the field of gaming and computer software, the publication is subject to editorial review as are all reliable sources. This source certainly qualifies. Regardless, there are still ESPN and Yahoo
1243:
to your first mentioning of IDONTLIKEIT. And even disregarding the chronological impossibility of your scenario, assuming bad faith on you still wouldn't be a good reason for citing IDONTLIKEIT. Have you read that essay? Its !voting on deletion or keeping an article based on someone's liking or not
760:
and has been around 24 years publishing 13 magazines each year. From what I can tell, it's one of the oldest and most respected magazines in the field. It's owner is the 6th largest media company in the UK (according to our article on it). It is clearly a reliable source and has been used as such
2039:
I'd phrase it a bit differently. None of our processes are inviolable--there is generally a clear way to get something reconsidered. For deletion, you go to DRV. For a judgement on a reliable source, you go back to RSN. The discussion at RSN about the Daily Dot wasn't great, so I've no problem
1961:
New sources do not represent a significant change in notability with which to overturn previous decisions (Daily Dot? come on.) DRV should be used when there is a problem with the previous close or when significant new notability is present, backed as always by significant coverage in independent
1192:
You're missing the point of what I was saying. Again, you're free to say "The consensus was read wrong at AFD" if that's how you feel. But you literally cannot make the additional connection that the editors who disagree with you are using IDONTLIKEIT as their stance. They're objectively not using
978:
The concensus themselves are not as unamimous as some editors here are making them seem. The first afd had four delete votes to one keep, now the sockpuppet user
Knowledge masterr made a statement for the articles inclusion, but did not explicitly say "keep". I believe this was just due to lack of
1684:
On the one hand, I wouldn't describe Chris
Troutman or Bradv as "very new editors". I think they're experienced and credible content editors who're well-qualified to operate the AfC process. You're right to say that it's an optional process unless the title's been salted, but the same is true of
1469:
That is possibly the *stupidest* argument I have ever seen at AFD. 'Gaming' is not a 'niche' subject any more than 'sport' is. If you want to exclude reliable sources because they cover a specific subject, then literally every MEDRS compliant source would need to be excluded (an area which favors
983:
also makes a similar non-voting statement, but in the other direction, I will assume that with his years on WP that this is what he actually intended. Thus the first Afd can be read as actually 2 keeps to 4, hardly unanimous. The second Afd has an additional keep vote. With the two Afds combined,
1074:
No, that's how AFD works. This isn't "AFD 2". Its to comment on whether or not the prior closes were legit or not. There was a clear consensus at AFD, and it was rejected three times in a row, mere days ago, at AFC. That's a pretty strong cosensus against this article's status in the mainspace.
904:
The largest disciplinary action in esports history forced
Renegades to sell its League of Legends franchise earlier this year, and nearly three months later the aggrieved parties are telling their side of the story. Renegades was forced to sell its position in the LCS on May 8 after Riot Games
878:
On May 8, Riot Games permanently banned one of the top professional League of
Legends teams in North America, Renegades, in one of the harshest punishments ever levied on an esports team. The move potentially cost the team and its two leaders, Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles and Chris Badawi,
1144:
Citing a clear consensus at AFD and 3 separate AFC reviews is about as far away from IDONTLIKEIT as it gets. You're free to have and defend your own opinions on this, but please don't do such a terrible job at summarizing others. I really don't see how you could propose such a irreconcilable
1023:(multiple reliable sources covering the topic in depth) and we've got two new sources in the last two weeks which is typically plenty of reason to relist at AfD, Is there a reason DRV should be making the call about the new sources rather than AfD? That's not unheard of, but it is unusual.
800:
The PC Gamer article, written by Shaun
Prescott, call it a "rehash" of the ESPN article but it summarize the main points of the ESPN article in a concise and objective way and should a valid piece of journalism in its own right. Besides, we have no guidelines that say this kind of writing is
483:
I'm also seeking deletion review for the following purpose. "if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page", as much as disputing the afd. There was an op ed in espn about the Riot ban on MonteCristo's team and MonteCristo's
281:. A recent version of the draft was accepted by a AFC review who is well versed in Knowledge guidelines, however it was moved back to draftspace, and not because of the AFD concensus but because I had requested it because I didn't want to have too many AFDs to deal with at the same time. --
719:
I don't consider PCGamer to be a useful source. They are a niche publication that focuses on a very narrow topic. They print anything and everything that's related to that topic. In the case of the specific article cited, it's not even original; it's a rehash of what ESPN published:
984:
there might be said to be 3 keeps to 8 deletes, and if we were to strike the inadvertently canvassed votes we may even find that this is 3 keeps to 5 deletes. Bottom line is, there might have been a concensus to delete both times, but it wasn't as clear as its being made out to be.--
1651:
new editors there and a strong desire not to override AfD results (which is reasonable IMO). Finally, it's an optional process that's not really intended to hold any weight--it's more advice as far as I can tell. Useful, but not relevant to deletion policy IMO. At least I don't
1507:
Consensus can change; but editors are not normally permitted to keep asking the same question again and again until they get the answer they want. This doesn't read like a consensus to overturn; and a reasonable period of time should be allowed to pass before the next DRV or AfD
89:. There is little support for the notion that the AfD closes were improper in any way and plenty of support for their conclusions. There are some suggestions that the AfDs were influenced by the discovery of sockpuppetry in the first, and by the effects of the DRV in the second.
1271:, but rather, the strength and validity of the arguments. Except for RoySmith, all you have yet to advance a legitimate argument about why this article should not be in mainspace, other than just pointing towards previous rejections and deletion discussions.--
2118:
history, and not based on its merits, which do not seem to have been properly evaluted after
Prisencolin's work on the draft. And seeing from the many voices here that opine that the new sources are sufficient to pass GNG (despite opposition), it seems
1544:
Ugh. I know what you mean, and this is not a simple decision. On the one hand, Wikipedians should be responsive to new sources. But on the other hand, our discussion processes have to have an end: there must be some way to reach a reasonably stable
1740:
They probably also rejected the draft as an affirmation of the previous Afd semi-concensus, which only happened a week or so before. From this perspective I can understand why they did this, but it would've been nice that they'd indicated this more
1266:
As far as the number of editors who have either rejected this article in Afd or Afc goes, you are completely correct to say there is concensus for deletion. However, what we are trying to say is that concensus does not come from numbers alone, per
2087:
I argued for restoration above, but I am saddened by the process-focus expressed by many otherwise good, content-focused editors above. I encourage the closing admin to disregard all the arguments, no matter which way they lean, regarding the
1209:
I can when they accuse me of being disruptive or bad faith as you did. Read again how you came off when you this isn't DRVPURPOSE and later said "lieu of your own bad faith assumptions". I said nothing about bad faith merely that based on the
1854:
This topic has been found not notable at AfD, and the request does not identify on account of which new information, not available at the time of the AfD, this determination should be reconsidered. So this does just look like forum-shopping.
514:
I'm not sure how to parse your sentence. Did you mean that the op-ed was about MonteCristo's publication of a response video, or are you saying that MonteCristo's publication of a response video is a distinct source from the ESPN op-ed? --
1884:. That the DRV nomination statement didn't make that as clear as it should isn't a reason to not restore the article and send it to AfD (where all the sources can be discussed as a group). Also, the draft article is pretty clearly meeting
756:
appears to be one of the most respected magazines in the field. According to our article, it's got a couple of dozen staff writers, a handful of which have
Knowledge articles themselves. It's listed as a reliable source for video games
2011:
So, if I understand you right, it's OK to continually rehash the fate of this article, ad infinitum, but five years ago, four people spent three days discussing a source, and their opinion is now inviolable gospel for all time? --
101:. And while DRV does usually assess whether the decision-making of prior deletion discussions was sound, it can also review whether there is enough material to reverse the outcome of a prior discussion. Thus, I shall close this as
828:
was violated or anything of that nature, but all the same I think it's fair to say that the larger community was not given adequate opportunity to weigh in on the question of whether or not the latest version of the article meets
1193:
that as their reason. Pointing out three consecutive rejections at AFC is in no way arguing in favor of IDONTLIKEIT. There is literally no way to draw that connection without projecting your own ideas into the mindset of others.
974:
had pointed this out in a comment. If not for being created by a sock, the first Afd probably would've resulted in no concensus. I'm making some presumptions here, but perhaps ClubJustin wants to explain his actions more clearly
2040:
with saying that a new discussion might lead to a different outcome. But I don't think it reasonable to expect a claim that it's not reliable to hold much water without opening up a discussion at RSN and seeing how that fares.
1932:
It looks as though there are new sources, but I can't bring myself to care enough about this silly topic (by which I mean professional sports in general, not only this variant) to read them and to determine their significance.
1407:. Anyone seriously arguing PC Gamer is not a reliable source on gaming clearly has a flawed understanding of what reliable sources are. I would also point out that AFC is not a mandatory process and can be ignored completely.
962:(who indicates that he is now inactive), had tagged several articles created by the user for G4 speedy deletion, even commenting on one of them "Since when are LOL players notable? in that case we should make one for b4nny. (
82:
better way to go around. That the topic of e-sports and their notability is contentious - there is a longish discussion at the Village Pump about making a specific notability guideline for them - probably also didn't help.
1724:
the sources used are either not independant or not reliable. Perhaps they could be persuaded to give further reasoning. How PCGamer, Polygon, ESPN and the DailyDot are neither independant or not reliable I have no clue.
925:. Espn does not cover run of the mill players, there is a prejudice against the subject. Editors should reevaluate the scope of eSports. This is certainly not a niche community anymore and hasn't been for a long time.
833:
or not. (To me, it seems that there is a credible argument that it does meet GNG, and that it is well within the grey area where an AfD might go either way). A new AfD should be allowed to run for the full seven days.
1833:
looks perfectly OK to me GNG-wise. Even from my geriatric perspective, the concerns above about "niche" look pretty out of touch to me. I'd rather be worn out with repeated requests for recreation than for deletion.
1177:). Therefore if you think the sources are insufficient you must prove they are not reliable or independent. Hard to do given the sources I provided. And yes to say he is non-notable when he is clearly, is bad faith.
296:
Im confused, it looks like the draft was rejected 3 times in the last 3 days at AFC, as recently as today. It looks like there's already quite the agreement that this article is not ready for main space still.
1547:
In this particular case I weigh the second limb heavier than the first. There have been so many discussions, in such quick succession, that I'm leery of another. My thinking is that if a fresh source were
1912:
All sources have been present please read the discussion. These sources have not been analyzed those favoring declining recreation, so far analysis of sources favors inclusion and passes our GN guidelines.
1602:
was speedly/IAR closed. Was there a DRV or some other AfDs? If not, we've only really had one AfD that ran to completion. If that's right, this DRV doesn't seem overly problematic, especially if there
1772:
of "fails W:P:GNG". As for the second AFD, in retrospect I think it was actually a bad idea on my part to request an early close, and that having this DRV close as "list to afd" would rectify this. --
1061:
Those endorse should include a reason why these sources provided do not pass WP:GNG. The sources provided suggest allow recreation as a viable close. These sources also nullify prior AfD discussions.
1607:
new good sources (all in the last 2 weeks in fact, so no drip-feeding). I'll admit I don't give the AfC stuff any weight and maybe that's the issue people are seeing? Am I missing something here?
1557:
drip-feeding sources in this way, and I'm sure the idea hasn't even occurred to him! But DRV values consistent decisions and what we do for Prisencolin we would likely be asked to do for others.)—
1043:
I would suggest that, if these topics keep coming to DRV, my attempts to establish guidelines for inclusion for these topics might actually be worth a wider look, as right now it's a free-for-all.
1214:
and the article state, it is an acceptable start class article. This is DRVPURPOSE as an act of good faith why don't you review the sources instead of previous discussion. I am using this DRV to
1670:
It is also weirdly counter to how (in my experience) AFC works out, usually articles with far less reliable/GNG-compatible sources make it through AFC, so in this case it seems odd it did not.
1986:
PC Gamer has long been considered a reliable source and is one of the two new sources. And even if you don't like the Daily Dot as the outher source, the RS notice board has accepted it. (
2114:
since DRV1, and FPP the mainspace title to avoid another AfC reviewer approving it "too hastily" without reviewing all the voiced concerns. Then the article was repeatedly declined at AfC
1091:
Yes actually it is see WP:DRVPURPOSE, we can either question the close or determine whether or not recreation is allowed. Sources have been presented what are the issues with the sources?
1768:
my unintentional canvassing suspicions for the third voter, but I will repeat my observation that this may have been the case. Also, the voter offers no reason for deletion other than a
1443:
Scope of coverage and reliability are unrelated. Expert sources are certainly reliable and independent, suggesting a source focusing within a field as unreliable is the same as saying
2069:, which is very much a RS, brought up since the last AfD, which wasn't a full one anyway, should be enough to allow recreation, or at the very least, a relist with a clean AfD. ----
551:
547:
450:, unanimous to delete. So we're being asked to overturn that? On the basis of, what? That everybody who didn't agree with you was wrong? And, if it's been rejected at
194:
468:
1530:
Even though there are two sources (both fully on the topic of the article, both in RSes) since the last AfD? It's not normally time that matters here but sources.
1161:
Surprised to see an administrator say this. Knowledge is based on arguments focusing on policy. Consensus is determined by arguments not voting. If 50 editors say
330:
believe the AFD result to be in error. Nevertheless there is a bit more additional content and sources from recent events that have been added in the mean time.--
1104:
Any of the new sources were added to the drafts that were rejected at AFC as recently as August 2nd though. Are there any new sources as of these last 2 days?
1145:
conclusion to other people's stances like that unless you were literally disregarding everything they said in lieu of your own bad faith assumptions on them.
738:
any of their properties, give it a once-over to avoid copyright issues, and push it out to the site, where it's fodder for the advertising syndication engines
256:
48:
34:
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that it might be ready for mainspace; at the very least, it is worthy of serious discussion. Whether it ends up being recreated and AFD3'ed immediately
722:
a new ESPN report provides some background and context from the banned team's point of view. It's a lengthy report, but here are some of the key points.
182:
43:
1693:
legitimately overrule AfC in a matter like this. You've got to weigh an AfC decline like one !vote at an AfD, rather than like a failed AfD. But on
701:
as they always should be. Our inclusion guidelines are about sources on the subject of the article, not editors and our history with the article.
922:
364:
918:
382:
779:
512:... (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact.
678:
We really don't want people bringing back articles over-and-over again without change. So has there been more sources since the two AfDs?
74:– Alright, this is the first time I've closed a long and complex discussion, so I may have made a mistake. In this case, please complain at
776:
203:
1786:
OK, I see good points on both sides here. No word in bold from me; I'll be over there trying to extract the fence post from my buttocks.—
801:
impermissible as a reliable source. Finally, do you honestly think they only have around 2 employees working on their main news website?--
554:
and both discussions seemed to conclude that Daily Dot is reliable, but were about a particular writer who isn't involved with eSports. --
1445:
784:. PC gaming heavily beats both in terms of number of participants and total hours played. If this is niche, so is golf and tennis.
2075:
244:
117:
39:
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1714:
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1521:
528:
the staf, strange. Besides, even if op-eds aren't permissible as statements of fact, its still permissible to prove notability.--
105:
to settle the notability/"do the (new) sources support notability" question - questions that are typically decided at AfD anyway.
1330:
per Roy Smith. He already explained why the sources are not valid, so there is no reason for other editors to list them again.
1993:
has accepted as reliable. Even with just the PCGamer one, that's enough for a relist, and the two may well be enough to meet
1239:
I accused you of bad faith assumptions. Re-read our conversation. The reason I mentioned bad faith assumptions was actually
1580:
It's not just the new sources that exist now. We're also arguing that the first AfD shouldn't have been a delete at all.--
21:
775:
Followup to this: PC games (the subject said to be niche) make up about $ 27 billion dollars in sales per year right now
686:
was also written in the last two weeks. That may not be enough to overturn the AfD (though I'd claim it's close) but it
1877:
683:
373:
265:
914:
858:
355:
370:
1962:
reliable sources. It's not a place to reargue the same crap over and over in hopes of getting it through somehow.
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887:
679:
348:
2162:
352:
278:
132:
93:
17:
1987:
1595:
659:
In case this got buried in the text below, there have been several new sources published since the second AFD.--
1880:
was also written in the last two weeks. Those two articles, by themselves, have a reasonable claim of meeting
967:
568:
For disclosure, I've also posted another thread asking about the Daily Dot over at the noticeboard right now.--
273:
Subject's role as the owner of a recently banned team, combined with previous events, should be enough to pass
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152:
367:
2030:
1729:
1675:
1475:
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over some random mottos is pushing it a little. It has been discussed at the reliable sources notice board,
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and discovered that first, it's from an opinion column, and second, it's taken horribly out of context. --
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365:
http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/23/11294624/league-of-legends-mid-season-invitational-casters-boycott-fair-pay
113:
75:
383:
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/25/top-league-legends-commentators-publicly-criticise-riot-games-pay/
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1199:
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1110:
1081:
947:
782:
626:
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per RoySmith. There was near unanimous consensus at AFD, and has since been rejected 3 times in 3 days at
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951:
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I'm simply not getting why these eSports folks are getting so much hassle. The sourcing is fine, GNG is
148:
1777:
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This subject further received extensive coverage in this Daily Dot article of which he is the main focus
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Yes, but others (me for example) have identified material that wasn't available at the time of the AfD
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If this is endorsed, we'll probably be back here in a week anyway if previous behaviour is any guide.
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463:. Well, yeah, that's exactly the problem. I kind of got excited by the quote from the NY Times,
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I want to point out an anomalous situation that may have directly influenced the afd. On May 16,
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vacuum nor for their own sake, they exist to help us make the most awesome encyclopedia around.
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Just to be sure, is this an endorse vote? Because you didn't explicitly say so in boldface.--
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more than met. Can someone who's opposed please explain to me what the perceived problem is?
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experience with the system and that he would have fully intended to do so. Interestingly,
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where the result was pretty clearly delete. It was then moved back into mainspace and
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It's generally one person making a call. And in my limited experience there are some
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http://www.pcgamer.com/new-details-emerge-on-banned-league-of-legends-team-renegades/
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without the older sources. And again, those two are just from the last two weeks!
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http://www.gamezone.com/news/montecristo-becomes-coach-of-clg-league-of-legends-team
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PCGamer is one of the many properties in the Future PLC portfolio. According to
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http://espn.go.com/esports/story/_/id/15054618/why-monte-doa-papasmithy-need-riot
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notable and provides multiple reliable independent sources the correct close is
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http://www.dailydot.com/esports/renegades-montecristo-thoughts-riot-ban-ruling/
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http://www.dailydot.com/esports/counter-logic-gaming-montecristo-coach-leaves/
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/wme-img-acquires-gaming-agency-765712
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Endorse, but allow recreation from the previous draft with subsequent AfD
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missing something. What's wrong with AfC? Why does it get no weight?—
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or whether this DRV2 turns out to end up with sufficient consensus to
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the processes quite scrupulously in this matter. I'm sure that he's
1989:). So we've got one source that is certainly reliable and one that
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millions of dollars of future revenue and sponsorship opportunities.
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The third bit is the toughest - whether to allow the main paging of
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articles are valid sources that prove this articles notability.--
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is solely about the subject and written in the last two weeks.
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DRV, isn't it? But on the other hand, I take your point that it
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The Daily Dot surfaces stories that no one else is talking about
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a portfolio of over 200 print titles, apps, websites and events
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is solely about the subject and was written in the last week.
446:. I'm also confused. The AfD was, with the sole exception of
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http://www.dailydot.com/esports/misfits-renegades-montecristo/
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That doesn't make any sense - you started citing IDONTLIKEIT
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with a specific note that !votes based on the history of the
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article by Jacob Wolf are all unreliable. This still leaves
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something passing AfC would mean it can't be sent to AfD.
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Let's just for a minute that Roy is correct in saying that
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Overturn or relist at AFD taking into account new sources
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quite a few AfC declines in quick succession. Hmmmm.—
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with a note to judge the article and not its history
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I'm starting to think I'm missing something. I saw
620:. This isn't a second AFD (or a fourth AFC review.)
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It was accepted once at AFC, just for the record.--
1689:one person making the call and that therefore DRV
859:"Renegades, Riot and the danger of absolute power"
484:publication of a response video and documents. --
2108:Non-partisan comment from DRV1 & AFD2 closer
1493:Allow recreation/ eventually relist at a new AfD
888:"Renegades' MonteCristo responds to Riot ruling"
1456:can you clarify your objection to the sources?
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131:The following is an archived debate of the
966:pro player)". If this isn't indicative of
752:I don't know much about video gaming, but
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85:Second, the original AfD closure(s) are
465:The Daily Dot did the Internet a favor.
542:I thinking criticizing the quality of
398:, this is more than enough to pass.--
344:Here are the sources in the article:
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2165:of the page listed in the heading.
1446:The New England Journal of Medicine
1427:I'm not arguing that they're not a
347:Almost entirely about MonteCristo:
2065:. New sources, including ESPN and
378:MonteCristo mentioned in passing:
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394:Under our current description of
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2129:approve the AfC draft outright
781:, Tennis at under $ 6 billion
360:MonteCristo is major subject:
1:
886:Lingle, Samuel (2016-07-29).
690:enough to send back to AfD.
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1726:Only in death does duty end
1672:Only in death does duty end
1472:Only in death does duty end
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913:Additional sources include
778:. Golf is at $ 70 billion
277:now. Draft can be found at
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761:here for years and years.
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2025:is not much more to say.
857:Jacob Wolf (2016-07-26).
279:Draft:Christopher Mykkles
94:Draft:Christopher Mykkles
18:Knowledge:Deletion review
2168:Please do not modify it.
1550:always and automatically
138:Please do not modify it.
40:Deletion review archives
1819:Allow move to mainspace
467:, until I tracked down
76:User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus
2116:based on the AFD1/AFD2
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