1380:), and am very much not impressed with the tone, depth, or professionality of the review itself - but unless there's some obvious proof I'm missing that it's user-generated-content or such, I don't think it's a clear enough call for a single admin to make.Not that that should stand in the way of salting, further deletions, blacklisting, or other enforcement as appropriate; there's been enough recreation by known sockpuppets that if your AGF-o-meter isn't already exhausted, there's something wrong with you. If an
174:
includes a requirement that the person is normally resident and working in the country, and may involve some kind of cultural knowledge test. Depending on local laws there are other ways to acquire citizenship of a country, for example by ancestry, or by investment, or even by outright bribery. Many have acquired
Maltese citizenship by investment, for example, but that doesn't make them naturalized Maltese. This merge was ill thought out, had minimal participation, and has had many unforeseen consequences.
280:
they could have commented in the discussion – probably without even noticing that the category was missing from the list. It's my regular practice to belatedly correct the gap in the nomination in such cases, if I find it when implementing the rest, so that the discussion can be found by "What links here" rather than having to go through the page history. Likewise, I would belatedly correct other errors in the list, e.g. mistyped category names, for the same reason. –
390:- to the people saying "DRV is not CFD round 2", is this catchphrase more important than improving the encyclopedia? Because a lot of people have now been defined as "naturalized" citizens of some country or other when they are nothing of the sort. This was a fairly obscure discussion that most people weren't even aware of and where valid objections were ridden over roughshod by the tyrrany of the majority.
662:" page. Consequently, a brief, referenced description of the film was added. However, this edit was reversed by Saqib in 2024 approx after 5 years, who deemed it promotional and removed the film's name without providing a clear reason. I have brought this to the attention of an administrator, along with evidence of the film's prior inclusion on the page.
566:
was deleted in 2019 following an AFD discussion. Another article on the same subject was created in 2021, and I accepted the speedy deletion request in 2024 since I found the subject matter, and sourcing too be much the much the same, even though the prose was different. Submitting for review whether
1402:
but please change to a G5 reason. I think both versions of the article wouldn't survive an AFD even without the socking as the promotional odor is strong here and the sources are weak at best. I think the two versions are different enough that G4 probably shouldn't have been used - there's a lot of
1161:
per Frank Anchor. Having the same defects isn't enough for G4, it really has to be substantially the same article--that is, without any substantive changes--for G4 to count. Anything else may well be a slam dunk at AfD, but should not properly be G4'able. G5 appears to have been discovered after the
369:
had stopped replying. I implemented the close by redirecting the merged categories, which I hope will be helpful if a subsequent CFD discussion results in consensus to undo the merge or to merge in the reverse direction. I merged the
Wikidata items in a few cases, but only where there were no other
279:
It happens quite often in bulk nominations, when many pages are tagged, that one or two of them are then overlooked when manually compiling the list in the nomination. If anyone had visited the tagged category, they would have found the CFD template there with the correct link to the nomination, so
844:
please add some Urdu references which are available in 2023 and not in 2020. Please also check 2019 Jammu & Kashmir
Airstrikes section where this film has mentioned there as per the 3 editors who were agreed earlier on that a section should be there so it would be great if the section has been
952:
Array chicha, just stick on the point and stop complaining to admins. You owe an answer that why you have removed the information only of
Mustafa and that too in mass number? Relax, physical threats? go to the nearest local police station or FIA office with all the evidence, okay? Niaz bibi seems
934:
5 references showed enough notability for Op Swift Retort and
Unicorn a user has categorically stated 4 years back that Geo News, The News International, Gulf News showing enough notability of film. Now, the film has 4 mentions in urdu language but you ignored everything and removed the name of
173:
The parent (container) category and multiple subcategories for individual countries were merged with
Category:Naturalized citizens by country. There are several ways to acquire citizenship of a country other than "naturalization", the precise definition of which varies by country but generally
1018:, the director/producer/writer of this short film, is also a journalist, he has been successful in garnering some press coverage for his short movie, however, the coverage still falls short of meeting WP:GNG and/or WP:SIGCOV. An article on same topic was created under different titles such as
192:
I'm not much of a CfD follower, but it looks like this same argument was raised in the CfD and other !voters rejected it. That is, it looks like the argument here is that consensus was clear... but incorrect on the merits. Is that right? If not, what am I missing?
1014:, the director/producer/writer of this short film. Upon reviewing the sources cited on this article, much of the coverage either falls within the WP:NEWSORGINDIA, or consists of routine/ROTM coverage lacking independent, in-depth/significant coverage. Given that
710:
of both the (film) and (short film) titles. Public log shows creation in May 2023 and deletion in July 2024. I find it difficult, though not impossible, to believe that an article would stand and presumably be edited for over a year and still be subject to G4.
1342:
G5 would have been correct and makes the rest of this largely academic, but since the deleting admin's asking for guidance, here's some.There's some minimal amount of discretion in determining what changes are substantive, but I think the last version at
667:
I question how an edit made in 2020 could suddenly be considered promotional in 2024, especially when multiple editors were aware of the film's presence and raised no concerns. It appears that Saqib may have a bias against content related to the armed
586:
I would like to offer my perspective on this matter. This film is not self-promotional or fake; it is officially associated with the
Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The film's production was authorized by the PAF, as reported by Gulf News and other news
1347:
barely squeaks by as substantive (I haven't examined the prior G4s). The prose changes really weren't: there's no new claims of substance there, so it comes down to the references. Of those, #2, 3, 5 and 6 were in the version deleted at AFD.
1052:
Fwiw, these articles has seen significant editing activity by blocked socks, suggesting it was in clear violation of WP:TOU and and there was also repeated attempts to create a BLP on DJ Kamal
Mustafa which was also deleted via AfDs
1038:. It appears most of the references currently being cited in this article were also debated in the previous AFD and none of them could satisfy the GNG. Yet they're shamelessly promoting this and their other works on pages like
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as the article creator and most significant contributors are blocked socks. No objection to any good-faith attempt to recreate this page, though I am not convinced this DRV was made in good faith.
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I believe administrators should determine whether the film deserves its own page. If not, I urge them to revert Saqib's edit and reinstate the brief description of
Operation Swift Retort on the "
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Off-topic discourse that is largely related to user conduct and falls below the standards expected at DRV. If there are significant user conduct issues, please take them (with evidence) to ANI.
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1376:, though, I don't. I'd be astounded if it made a difference at afd - I doubt the site would be considered reliable or discriminate (what with the nagging to let them "review your film" on
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927:? You said it was promo so after 4 years you woke up and listened the order of sock-puppet, isn't it? 3 editors were agreed to add short information of Operation Swift Retort on
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the same junk sources and given the rather small amount of material available, a lot of the same information and given the history of this, understandable why G4 would be used.
1058:
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Geo News, Dunya News, Gulf News are enough to show the notability while in extra it has 92 News, Daily
Pakistan, UK Film review, Urdu Point, The News International and others.
554:
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user wants to recreate this, the afd won't stand in the way, but if someone tries again within their first dozen, or hundred, or even several thousand edits like the
211:, all of whom are basically dodgy businessmen who've probably never visited the country in their life. This is a very ill thought out merge, and should be reversed.
923:? sort your personal things out of the box and not on Knowledge (XXG). You have issue every other editors, dare to explain why did you removed the information from
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like haven't thought you anything that how to behave on public forum. 24 hours you are only active on Knowledge (XXG) just to think how to oppose an opposition.
48:
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323:"People with acquired citizenship" is plainly more neutral and accurate. I also question whether consensus was fully established in the first place; the
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are both written by the film's creator, are fairly promotional, and are identical, so they don't pass the laugh tests for reliability or independence.
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These sources are not paid endorsements and do not include disclaimers. These are primary and I can provide 10 more references that are secondary.
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The previous discussions was closed after very limited involvement and without proper consideration of the issues it would created, such as
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Received a challenge to a G4-based speedy deletion basically claiming that the new article had been created with permission. The article
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page in 2020 but you removed it in 2024 just because you have some personal problem against Mustafa, does this make any sense to you?
1229:, because the originator is not a sockpuppet but a puppet master, and was blocked shortly after creating the (short film) article.
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677:" page, as it was originally added in 2020. The film is notable, official, and the only animated film produced in Pakistan in 2019.
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only applies to users who were blocked or banned at the time of article creation, not users who were about to be blocked or banned.
1073:? Furthermore, DJ Kamal has sent me multiple off-wiki physical and legal threats, with evidence available upon request via email.—
658:
In 2020, three editors suggested that while the film may not warrant its own Knowledge (XXG) page, it should be mentioned on the "
21:
1186:, and send to AFD - I don't like the overturn, and there has been a lot of misconduct, but I don't see a valid speedy deletion.
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1002:) violations under G5. However, if we disregard this aspect, this is an advertisement and PROMO article created by a blocked @
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or change the speedy deletion reason. I am now satisfied that the originator was already blocked. Striking previous !vote.
609:
There are numerous mentions of the film and the filmmaker in 17 Urdu newspapers (Roznama 92 News, Dunya News, Express, etc.)
74:– Closure endorsed as a correct reading of consensus. Per Qwerfjkl, this can be punted back to CfD at editorial discretion.
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contains four very brief sentences that add no information not in the other sources; I consider it within discretion too.
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applies here, is the encyclopedia actually better as a result of the merge? Because I think it is significantly worse.
365:: I believe I correctly found the consensus of the discussion. It had been open for 3 weeks, and the principal opposer
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https://www.roznama92news.com/efrontend/web/index.php/?station_id=1&page_id=6&is_common=&xdate=2023-10-21
411:, if that is the problem, then the correct procedure is to start a new CfD discussion, not to contest a valid close.
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348:- DRV is not CFD round 2. The result was wrong, but that is not within the scope of DRV. The close was correct.
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When the article is restored, the article and the AFD should be at least semi-protected if not ECP-protected.
463:– Deletion endorsed as a G5. Cryptic's commentary is excellent, both for this discussion but also generally.
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my application of G4 was appropriate, and as always with reviews on my deletions, I will take a
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I have left here 4-5 references, let me know doesn't this make enough evidence about the film?
256:? That wouldn't be tolerated at any other deletion venue, whether it had been tagged or not. —
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Certainly not normal, but appears to have been done by the closer, rather than a nominator.
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739:(for the version under discussion here). Access the page history for the contents.
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The version deleted at afd (since there's been g4s at the (film) title too) is
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about the underlying event; both are very plainly not substantive changes.
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The (short film) and the (film) are just different enough that this isn't
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The (short film) and the (film) are just different enough that this isn't
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off-wiki, yet the promotional/military propaganda pages are restored. --—
956:
Well anyways, admins are watching and you must have to given an answer :)
888:
I am appalled that the creator of this short films DJ Kamal Mustafa made
234:- That is how it looks to me. I don't think DRV is CFD round 2 either.
818:
Yes, it was. I am not at liberty to discuss contents of emails however.
919:
Why everyone has a problem with you or you are doing something wrong @
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Too many of the edits to the article have been by sockpuppets.
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Too many of the edits to the article have been by sockpuppets.
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The changes in the title of the article are a clear case of
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The changes in the title of the article are a clear case of
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fact, but would still appear to be an applicable criterion.
248:... ... ... Is it common at CFD to add pages to discussions
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The film has been broadcast on several television channels:
935:
Mustafa from all the Knowledge (XXG), why? personal issue?
789:, May I ask if this undeletion request was made by email?
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Also Urdu news outlets (Daily Pakistan, Urdu Point, etc.)
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The News International (Newspaper and In-step magazine)
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Category:Naturalised citizens of Saint Kitts and Nevis
735:(for the original version deleted in 2019), and
329:issue was mentioned but not clearly resolved.
8:
482:The following is an archived debate of the
93:The following is an archived debate of the
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111:Category:People with acquired citizenship
71:Category:People with acquired citizenship
1250:Speedy deletions should not be based on
1134:Adding that I oppose salting any title.
1103:
7:
1263:the extra titles in article space.
1036:clear consensus in favor of deletion
1430:of the page listed in the heading.
1345:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
1024:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
1000:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
929:2019 Jammu & Kashmir Airstrikes
925:2019 Jammu & Kashmir Airstrikes
737:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
675:2019 Jammu & Kashmir Airstrikes
660:2019 Jammu & Kashmir Airstrikes
500:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
460:Operation Swift Retort (short film)
441:of the page listed in the heading.
370:Wikipedias with both categories. –
1324:all the titles in article space.
1313:Operation Swift Retort (2019 Film)
1242:Operation Swift Retort (2019 Film)
1028:Operation Swift Retort (2019 Film)
28:
990:which was blocked in 2015, (see
986:confirms, the master account is
1426:The above is an archive of the
437:The above is an archive of the
18:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion review
1159:Overturn G4/Keep deleted as G5
994:) making these two creations (
731:OK, the pages are restored at
1:
1390:reincarnation had, too bad. —
1382:established, known-legitimate
1108:support speedy deletion as G5
1020:Operation Swift Retort (film)
996:Operation Swift Retort (film)
733:Operation Swift Retort (film)
564:Operation Swift Retort (film)
1356:is a copy of our article at
1225:This doesn't appear to be a
1102:as the two versions are not
250:after they're already closed
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1010:, to boost the profile of
890:numerous physical threats
708:Requesting temp undeletion
473:23:09, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
304:, DRV is not XFD round 2.
84:23:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
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1433:Please do not modify it.
1069:. And I'm unsure what's
489:Please do not modify it.
444:Please do not modify it.
100:Please do not modify it.
40:Deletion review archives
1032:deleted in 2019 via AFD
321:Support reversing merge
1358:Operation Swift Retort
1104:sufficiently identical
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331:WeyerStudentOfAgrippa
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1311:. See also
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1030:and finally
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845:restore too.
842:Frank Anchor
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346:Weak Endorse
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59:24 July 2024
58:
49:2024 July 25
35:2024 July 23
1100:Overturn G4
753:Thank you!
1407:Ravensfire
1071:this about
984:SPI report
646:Dunya News
409:MaxBrowne2
396:MaxBrowne2
213:MaxBrowne2
176:MaxBrowne2
1195:Stricken
820:Sjakkalle
787:Sjakkalle
741:Sjakkalle
626:Gulf News
573:Sjakkalle
372:Fayenatic
282:Fayenatic
254:like this
44:2024 July
1164:Jclemens
1090:contribs
1065:as well
988:Dj1kamal
909:contribs
824:(Check!)
808:contribs
745:(Check!)
621:Geo News
587:outlets.
577:(Check!)
571:stance.
416:Qwerfjkl
267:Jclemens
195:Jclemens
20: |
1400:Endorse
1392:Cryptic
1374:Ref #10
1289:Endorse
1034:with a
1004:Devoter
980:Endorse
779:Cryptic
668:forces.
569:neutral
555:restore
519:history
388:Comment
302:Endorse
258:Cryptic
228:Comment
190:Comment
166:restore
130:history
1144:Anchor
1120:Anchor
872:Daniel
763:Anchor
721:Anchor
465:Daniel
392:WP:IAR
367:Buidhe
306:Stifle
76:Daniel
1302:WP:G4
1220:WP:G4
1139:Frank
1115:Frank
1077:Saqib
921:Saqib
896:Saqib
795:Saqib
758:Frank
716:Frank
541:watch
534:links
380:ondon
290:ondon
152:watch
145:links
52:: -->
16:<
1413:talk
1364:and
1330:talk
1322:Salt
1269:talk
1261:Salt
1201:talk
1182:the
1168:talk
1084:talk
1067:here
1063:here
1059:here
1055:here
1048:this
1046:and
1044:this
1040:this
1006:and
998:and
992:this
964:talk
944:talk
903:talk
876:talk
854:talk
840:Hi @
802:talk
775:here
698:talk
683:talk
527:logs
511:edit
504:talk
469:talk
421:talk
400:talk
354:talk
335:talk
310:talk
271:talk
240:talk
217:talk
199:talk
180:talk
138:logs
122:edit
115:talk
80:talk
32:<
777:. —
546:XfD
544:) (
230:to
157:XfD
155:) (
22:Log
1415:)
1370:#9
1366:#8
1362:#7
1354:#4
1350:#1
1332:)
1293:G5
1291:a
1271:)
1231:G5
1227:G5
1203:)
1184:G4
1170:)
1093:)
1087:I
1061:,
1057:,
1042:,
1026:,
1022:,
966:)
946:)
912:)
906:I
878:)
856:)
811:)
805:I
791:—
700:)
692:--
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42::
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269:(
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113:(
78:(
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