1800:
They have been through many lead-up assignments and several sessions with our
Knowledge Ambassadors, and have read many sources, so I can tell you with 6 years experience doing this Knowledge Article assignment, many are well qualified to be Knowledge editors, and many good new articles will result. With a class this large (98 students) there will be some who are not taking this as seriously as they ought to. I am surprised that Kevin Gorman's email today was the first I have heard of the many concerns you rightly have about what my students are doing. Thanks, Kevin, for pointing me to this discussion. SandyGeorgia, I am sorry this assignment has gotten you so upset. This is not a "bad bad bad program" and I am certainly not a "lousy professor" (I have won the highest teaching awards from both Georgia Tech (2011) and the University System of Georgia (2012)) so please let's keep this discussion civil and productive. Hundreds of my former students' articles were excellent and are now part of the corpus of neuro-related information available on Knowledge. Some were reverted or merged and that is appropriate. I am not an expert in Knowledge editing, and for the most part, delegate this responsibility to my Ambassadors (Lor Critz and Willie Baer, Georgia Tech librarians). I am open to suggestions about how to best prepare my students for this assignment, and have gotten and implemented fantastic ones from Biosthmors, an online Ambassador an excellent and experienced Knowledge editor/writer.
2560:
from the
History tabs. I emphasize using real names throughout this course because that is the standard for most academic scientific communications. The students need to get used to the idea of standing behind what they put into a permanent medium, whether online or in print. I am sorry if this is not standard (to use real names) in Knowledge. I gave all the students the option of creating an alias at the beginning of the course, if my policy troubles them. Further, no student was "forced" to do this assignment. It is an elective course. They can drop any time. There are ample opportunities for extra credit if they decide not to do one of the assignments, for whatever reason. Regarding students dropping their articles once the assignment is over, this is an inevitable consequence of an educational assignment. That said, many of my former students have continued to maintain their articles and others' as well. I have encouraged students in this class to keep improving their article and others on Knowledge after the course is over.
4672:
the citations, linked to the
Zimbabwe article, removed a whole lot of editorializing and info that was redundant to the Zimbabwe articles, and moved some portions to the correct sections. And flagged an important definition in the lead that is cited, incorrectly, to the Baker Institute (we don't need to be citing medical content to a think tank). Unless anyone else has any other business here, I'm satisfied that the cleanup is done. From this example, we do need to remind courses and students a) to stay on topic within articles, and remember that we use wikilinks for content that is already developed elsewhere, b) to follow MEDMOS section suggestions, c) to use proper medical sources for medical content, and d) to attribute editorial opinions anywhere when using think tanks and medical editorials as sources. A news editorial printed in the
4471:
familiar with the subject, many hours can go into research because the entire topic must be well-understood. The cholera article has a special interest for me because I worked on the Haiti earthquake article and am responsible for most of the updates. Haiti received enough aid money that every victim could have been given almost $ 40,000, and instead here they are with many still living in tents without clean water or sewage systems, the United
Nations still refusing to admit they are responsible for the epidemic, and the Hatians are still dying from cholera. So you can see my connection... I was going through the article to try to learn more about cholera and have reached the History section. I will be very happy to stop with my edits if Sandy is willing to make the needed edits to the new section.
3969:. I have not had time to address every student. And, adding to the resentment, these students push to add their edits just as the "rest of the world" is trying to prepare for Thanksgiving, Christmas and Hannukah. I have family here visiting. This is horribly unfair to regular editors. We're doing as much as we can. This program needs to get these courses under control so that we do have enough free time to engage the students-- I'm sure you know that no one here can say that Doc, Colin and I have not been working overtime, and that I haven't engaged as many students on talk as time has allowed. I'm sure you know that if I type any more on this topic, I am likely to pop a circuit breaker again, so Happy Thanksgiving, I have turkey to do.
1689:
on (23 September), so kudos to her. On 12 November-- before Ana
Minchew had begun to work-- two new editors from another (unregistered) course added text to the article, and when I responded rather grumpily, their professor appeared. The three students are to be commended for using talk pages, and working together: a very good outcome was achieved. The article still has some issues, but not out of line with what we find in many newly developed Knowledge articles, and it would be wonderful if they were able to finish addressing those issues before term-end, and then stay on as regular Knowledge editors to help keep that article in good shape.
4292:, and willing to wait for Kimmyfromtexas to come back after Thanksgiving, engage on talk, and finish cleanup. The problems are not so egregious that harm is done by leaving them on the page for another week. I'll give more feedback on talk after the holiday. The reason I wanted this incident re-opened is that we haven't heard from either the instructor or the student, and in the event the student doesn't return to cleanup, one of us has to do it. More importantly, it would be good to be sure the instructor is aware of the problems for future reference and in terms of next semester's course design. I will re-engage after the holiday.
968:(see the edit summary). As it happens, this was actually a big improvement of a previously pretty-shabby page, in terms of content (although there were lots of basic stylistic flaws that could easily have been corrected before moving into mainspace if anyone had been able to review it before the move, as would likely have happened, for example, at Articles for Creation). But the thought of student projects making a practice of blanking existing content in order to replace it with sandbox creations has the potential for situations that give me the chills. It seems to me that we never really intended sandboxes to be used in
3864:(hypothetical), let's assume it is. The problem with this addition was that, as it created an essay about certain aspects of cholera prevention and included that all in one section while neglecting our usual order of sections, it did mix material that belonged in other sections, was not strictly "society and culture", and should be and could be better sourced, per MEDRS. I'm not sure why we're sourcing medical material to bakerinstitute.org, but haven't looked closely at that-- it's hard to imagine there aren't journal reviews in this area. Also, as Doc James has pointed out, information was duplicated.
3202:
spite of it being pointed out in advance that there will be problems and that his students didn't understand medical sourcing and that he hasn't engaged
Wikpedia. And then I get an email claiming that these kinds of articles are the normal Knowledge model (new editor, bad content gets dealt with over time). No, 100 mostly bad essays at once is not normal, and not something we can handle with the normal model and normal ratio of established editors to new editors, working to guide and train them bit-by-bit, as they make smaller edits. You all need to be proactive. There is no such solution as
2500:) As a starter when dealing with plagiarism issues I suggest: NEVER mention who might be guilty. Quite apart from Jmh649, I fear that the rhetoric on his page shows a widespread "vigilante" attitude that makes for a profound mismatch between some ambassadors and the goal of helping students. I think it suggests the ambassador system is deeply flawed. As for plagiarism, DGG has explained here that in his experience to quietly show a student what the problem is leads to good endings nearly all the time. That is the way the guidelines read and I suggest ambassadors should follow that wisdom.
4054:, and has gone in these last two weeks from students, we cannot keep up with the articles on obscure topics and stupid new stubs and pages with few views. We have to prioritize our work to important topics that have many pageviews. You cannot take 200mg too much of Louisa May Alcott; cholera is an important topic. I'm glad Kimmy chose an article that matters, rather than creating some stupid new stub that barelyh meets notability on a topic no one cares about; for that, she gets an A. But we must prioritize and we can't get to everything: we do have to get to articles like this one.
1512:
sure that I correct them. I sincerely apologise for causing any issues. I put the articles that I wrote up for review because I wanted to make sure that what I had written was acceptable. They were accepted with a few minor edits so I thought I had a good grasp of what is required, which may not be the case. Please let me know what the next step is and what I can do to help. I have read the comments on this page and the
Alzheimer's Disease talk page, and I'm going to read up on where I went wrong. Thank you for all your time and patience.
3739:, and when you did that, it triggered a lot of scrutiny. As SandyGeorgia said, we have a medical manual of style which includes a recommended outline for how articles for diseases should be structured to maintain consistency in Knowledge. While there are always exceptions in Knowledge, everyone here expects exceptions to be thoughtfully made and articulated in light of the years of precedent and many people who have reached consensus to structure articles in this way. Please review
3119:(after a large effort by dolfrog and myself), everything that I have seen from that course needs to be reverted. If this board doesn't do something, ANI is next. We do not have time to deal with all of this-- and several dozen articles were dropped in this week, not to mention what is still to come from other courses. It looks like Jami et al are not going to be dealing with this, or not able to deal with this, and it may be time to bring in more effective dispute resolution.
3206:, after the fact, doing something right away is not the issue. Unless you think you can convince him to prod all of his essays and revert all of his primary sourced edits, since there are not and never will be enough of us to review all of his course's bad work, along with all of the other unregistered coursework that will be dropped on us during this week as term-end approaches. You will chase us out. And then I hope you all are happy with your students who never return.
5150:
deadlines and stuff was moved into mainspace prematurely, and he can't go back and look at a diff. So I'm supposed to do the work three times so he doesn't have to. Nothing whatsoever to do with normal
Knowledge functioning as it would with normal editors. I am here typing now, and will do the work on the article three times, so her professor who isn't engaged on Knowledge and who dropped 100 sandboxes that weren't ready into mainspace, won't be inconvenienced.
5663:
patchwork of the source text wording, does he remove it from WP? If it wasn't for the plagiarism, then it may be harder to argue for nuke because it just becomes a POV poorly sourced article like so many others on WP. Which brings us back to the point of the education program -- is it just to fill WP with more poorly written poorly sourced articles? I think we should expect and demand more from academia than merely "no worse than any other newbie". --
1967:, with two instances of copyvio and no pertinent material. I have pasted a portion of the student's polite response in bold above, which I just noticed (the reponse) today. (In turn because a participant here accidentally reverted an unrelated edit of mine, which I presume was a result of checking my contribution history because of my involvement with the student article! I thought perhaps they were counter-arguing, so I had to check what I'd done.)
102:
36:
4229:(and anyone else): did you realize that Doc James only reverted part of Kimmyfromtexas's work -- the last of the three diffs listed above? Doc James' edit summary refers to the version prior to that diff as "the last stable version"; are you OK with the changes prior to that? They date back to 5 November and 20 October. After the revert, Doc James made a couple more edits, one of which (
2835:
has a lousy, uninvolved professor and no place to turn when his grade is due and he doesn't know what to do. Someone here please deal with this. I am unwatched here; I came back here only to post these here. I find this whole experience horrible. Someone HERE needs to tell the professor that his grading has to happen by him getting off his arse and learning how to look at a diff.
3758:. Knowledge is not really every finished, and sometimes discussions do not end when the assignment does as this is a live and working community space. If you did not account for more time to stay around for the discussion, could you say so? We sometimes have problems trying to work with students who disappear after a class ends, and that can be discouraging for volunteers. Thanks.
2108:) page. It is clear that the number of bytes in the article (15,000–25,000) is more important than whether it is comprehensive. Also the number of references used (10) is important. This is unlikely to be relevant and in fact the better the refs the fewer may be needed. So this encourages lots of primary research refs. And are there any "Outstanding" articles at all? --
3480:
useful material, but doesn't fit the usual approach to disease articles; it's about societal considerations and is not primarily medical information at all. There have been prior discussions about the separation of this sort of information from disease articles and I'd like to hear more discussion of this point, and other comments on the material the student added.
5545:). The article is very close to its sources. Some text literally copied, others only minor changes. Much sourced to a popular science book by Oliver Sacks. This topic in epilepsy is controversial. Some researchers see this form of seizure as a clue to why people are religious; others reject this utterly. The topic also covers the issue of an epileptic personality (
3154:
since you aren't in
Atlanta right now? Anyway, I'm happy to reach out to him right away; I don't have the medical expertise that you guys do, so it would be helpful to have clear points of what to convey to him. Do we want to delete all of their articles/revert any edits to existing articles? If that's the plan of action, I will definitely relay the message.
2135:
academic professionals, and to take greater responsibility for their work. However, I can see that there's a real issue of
Knowledge hosting a process where real names get associated with criticisms that become permanently Google-able, when students were not as free as other editors to make the choice of using a user name of their own choosing.
4718:(I was there for that), Cholera in whatever country ... it makes no sense to title an article "Outbreak", when the 2008 "outbreak" is ongoing, and the article deals with the History of cholera in Zimbabwe, current policy, etc. Any consensus on moving the article? Going in to clean up some now ... I see that most of Kimmy's work was in the
4233:) readded a sentence Kimmyfromtexas had originally added. I then re-added the most recent version of the "Society and culture" section. So the only difference between Doc James version of the article and the current version is the "Society and culture" section. Before we discuss what needs to be done, can we agree that this change (
3878:, and not even linked. As a final note to the prof, please, please please have your students propose their work on talk to save us all a lot of time. This addition was not anywhere near as bad as what we see daily from student editing, but (and I regret to say) the addition of marginally correct text creates
384:
that I couldn't have written the articles myself with far less effort and time. The articles are longer, yes, and often where we once had a stub we now have text, but in no case do we really have any text of value, or if we do, it's because established editors have had to spend inordinate hours in cleanup.
5619:
salvageable content, but who is going to do it? Colin is our most knowledgeable editor on seizures, and it is Not His Job to clean up a mess like this. Nuking it, prodding it, or asking the professor to remove it is the best use of our time, since we know from experience that no one from the course
5552:
Once again this elementary class in neuroscience has attempted a subject beyond their remit and got unstuck. This is not a topic the prof can assess (even if that actually achieved anything for Knowledge -- it just seems to result in a grade). I think it is time those on the WEF review this class and
4412:
I will try to get to this today, Mike ... and the problems in the Zimbabwe article ... I think it important to detail the problems here so the instructors will have a chance to adapt their course approach. The question of why revert ... this course (and courses like it) creates more work than we can
4389:
have mentioned that there are problems with the section. Reading through it I see areas for improvement, and I am sure Sandy and Doc James can point out problems I've missed. But I'm alarmed to think that this material would be deleted. Prior to Kimmyfromtexas's work, the article contained nothing
3289:
Thanks for letting us know, Diannaa; that's one ping I can cross off my checklist. Not a problem in the grand scheme of things-- too much to get through with too many student edits, and they all dump in at the same time, just when folks are beginning holidays (same thing last November went on here),
2353:
rules state that "BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Knowledge, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, persondata, and article titles." People who want to enforce the rules ought to pay close attention to the actual rules here. Having a senior
1955:
Hello. I have followed this noticeboard with interest for some time. You see, I was often tempted to help students until I realized how pernicious this enterprise often is (I refer you to appropriate viewpoints expressed here such as the "unpaid teacher's assistant" meme; the editing of material not
1803:
My students have until the end of Nov. 27th to finish their articles, but are encouraged to continue improving them for as long as they wish. With productive and helpful comments from the Knowledge editing community, and from their class peers, you will see much improvement on their pages in the next
383:
From multiple different classes and students, I have spent most of my fall tagging, cleaning up, checking sources, fixing content, linking, copyediting, moving, patching, trying to get students to engage on talk (basically they never do), and in no case yet can I say that any article is better off or
5157:
No wonder some editors just simply won't deal with students. You engage one and then you have to feel horrible when you let them down and their grade is affected. I can't believe I am here typing this again, but here I am because I came back to post the next student mess (see next section). What is
4770:
Summary: I have spent two hours this morning in the Zimbabwe article. First I spent a little less than an hour reading, sorta checking, and copyediting the parts of the article that existed before student editing. I found the article to be in surprisingly good shape, mostly needing updates from a
4671:
article. The Society and culture section had been reverted back to Kimmy's version, so I went through it. It was almost a full duplication of the Zimbabwe article, with the same problems in the Zimbabwe article (lack of attribution), so I chopped a good portion of it, attributed what I left, fixed
3153:
has been the medical contact on this class—since Wiki Project Med has been around, we've tried to pair a medical ambassador with those classes to make sure the MEDRS and other subject-specific concerns are met. Biosthmors, I'm not sure if you had the chance to work closely with Dr. Potter this term,
2559:
The Peer Evaluations by other students in my class are there to help the students create better articles. Input from Wikipedians is also being used. After Wednesday (Nov 27, 2013), when they are supposed to be finished with this project, I will be the one grading them, by judging their contributions
2082:
have a response? I, for example, have used the word "plagiarism" on the page of one of your students, a page that includes their real name. Do you wish for the requirements of your course to have potentially lasting effects on students due to the search engine effect? While it's not my place to be a
1974:
If this student's very honest response is indicative of the student editing enterprise on Knowledge, then it is time to de-emphasize article creation, and emphasize more indirect methods of "learning from" Knowledge, as I am told is quite often just as productive for the students, and much easier on
1511:
Hi everyone. I am a second year psychology student and I started editing on Knowledge a few months ago. I did this independently and it's not part of any program that I am enrolled in, I just thought it would be a useful experience. I realise that I have made some mistakes and I will definitely make
1445:
JamesOAdams' editing doesn't follow the typical pattern of a student editing for a class assignment (he wrote numerous articles). I think he might just be an editor who is in college and has indicated so on his user page. Also, it looks like another editor accepted those articles you mention through
658:
edits suggestive of fall term and class deadlines, but not a single post from one of them on talk; result, endless cleanup hours for me and Slp1, and the article still a mess. As far as I know, we have no template we can use to query possible student edits, which look like meatpuppetry, but is most
5682:
No followup, I stubbed the article. Besides the paraphrasing/plagiarism concerns, it was poorly sourced or uncited, and (as we often see with student editing) a good deal of the content was off-topic (that is, not specific to this article, but better covered in other articles). I found one review
5662:
My biggest concern right now is plagiarism here. It looks too close to me. I'd be interested in what our plagiarism experts think. Does it pass these automatic detectors? Who is assessing these student essays while in draft to ensure they are ok? If the prof marks it and notices it is effectively a
5642:
In addition to Sacks, I found case reports, letters to the editor, and a source for which the PubMed entry indicates a followup journal letter claiming basic inaccuracies in the journal report. I suggest this article should be prodded, or reduced to a stub, depending on what Colin says can be done
3479:
article on the role of governments in preventing cholera, and the impact of political instability. I'm reading through it (and the related MEDMOS/MEDRS sections, which I'm not very familiar with) and would like other opinions. So far it looks to me as if the majority of what the student posted is
3074:
I'm sorry, but any class (instructor, assistants) who let this go from draft to mainspace should be stopped now. I don't care if the prof claims to have 6 years of experience. There is quite clearly absolutely no effective supervision or control in place with this class. So, WEF, what are you doing
2912:
I am only here updating my response to the earlier request; I don't want to be pinged here anymore, and I will handle them myself from now on. I've found my sea legs and a workable solution that is fair to me, fair to the kids, and fair to Knowledge. I think advising the students to talk to their
1822:
I have no intention of conducting Knowledge business via email, and suggest that your lack of involvement here is what led to the problems encountered by your students. Your past awards and other work are irrelevant to this discussion; your current term work is dismal, and your course approach has
1688:
For all of my complaints about student editing, I need to highlight a good outcome and commend those involved. This was an interesting case because it was revealed mid-term that two different courses were working on the article. Ana Minchew with the Georgia IT course tagged the article page early
4470:
Sandy alerted me to this discussion--thanks. IMO, the new section was a great idea, but it needs a great deal of work. I'm not sure that students and their instructors realize what a tremendous amount of time it sometimes takes to make even small edits to WP articles. Unless one is already very
3548:
However, Mike, it is incorrect to say that the new section is "about societal considerations and is not primarily medical information at all". There is a good deal of information in there that belongs in other sections (prevention, causes, history, screening), rather than Society and culture, and
2834:
This is presumably the cannabis student. We are talking about students who want to put articles in mainspace but haven't even figured out how to place a post on user talk or sign. He has no article. There is nothing I can tell him. It is not my job to ruin some kid's life and grade because he
2514:
In the hope that we can move on from what has become, in my opinion, an unproductive discussion, let me please suggest that it is, indeed, good practice to try to communicate helpfully with a class when copy-paste is discovered, before making public accusations. But that in no way changes the fact
1483:
I'm not sure what to do about it other than to ask him if he's editing as a part of class, either. There's no other real way of determining when the contribution history and edit history of sandboxes doesn't lead to other editors. I emailed him earlier, since has an email linked here, in case that
829:
Post at top of page, not bottom, and the student thinks Jbmurray moved the page, when the student is the one who moved the page. This sort of thing takes enormous amounts of time. And, the student hasn't even learned how to sign posts yet :) Do we really want to promote addition of content from
624:
passive voice. Who will do this incorporation of a blob of new sandbox text, out of place in the article? Knowledge is not a sandbox. Grades must be due this week, so plop it in and let someone else fix it. (Someone else being Dolfrog and me.) In this editor's defense, at least she tagged talk
5382:
No, Jb, I don't think we are at that level. For gosh sakes, it's the prof's fault the students are confused, and we probably shouldn't have moved it back to sandbox the first time. Where is the prof doing his/her grading? It's just that the history has already been lost once. I post this as a
4043:
If a "regular editor" posts semi-correct text but with a number of issues such that starting over is preferable to cleanup of what is there, the edit is moved to talk for refinement and discussion. The "regular editors" engage, the "new" editor learns, the text is cleaned up, what is salvageable
2268:
that say: "contact the editor responsible, point them to this guideline and ask them to add attribution. Given that attribution errors may be inadvertent, intentional plagiarism should not be presumed in the absence of strong evidence." Ambassadors are here to help students learn the rules, and I
2148:
About students evaluating one another's work, there can be some educational value in students doing it, whether on-wiki or off. However, there is no control over friends going easy on each other (or going hard on others they dislike). There is no requirement that the instructor actually use those
1799:
I am the Professor teaching Introductory Neuroscience at Georgia Tech to biology and biomedical engineering seniors. They have been working all semester on a neuro-related topic of their choice that was not represented on Knowledge or was a small stub at the beginning of the semester (Fall 2013).
1527:
Thanks, JamesOAdams. We are trying to sort out how this incident noticeboard can be used for student editing, and you are one of the first cases here. We can archive this incident, and I will work with you to evaluate and improve your content. It may take me a few days to get to it, due the US
3201:
It is wonderful that you are happy to reach out to him right away, Jami. However, you are at least a week late (if not two years, since his course has been doing this for a while, and I have been raising the red flag for over two years). He dropped about 100 essays into mainspace this week, in
3047:
Have a read of it. No you haven't stumbled onto the Daily Mail website. This is still Knowledge. The huge "Charlotte Figi" section in the middle is entirely unsourced. Perhaps to hide the fact that is is essentially taken from the CNN documentary. This article was listed on the course page while
2099:
I agree that there should be no requirement to use their real name. In fact, I say that should be discouraged considering the nature of the assignment is not a personal choice but one directed by the instructor. But it now becomes clear the students are marking each other. Yet another example of
685:. This is but one small portion of what I have spent the fall term doing. In every case, my time has been wasted and could have been better spent adding content myself. But if I don't do this work, these students will drop these essays into medical articles, and they all will end up reverted.
4784:
Besides all of the problems with that kind of editing, I am troubled that this course is at Rice University and the think tank whose opinions are now in our cholera articles (the Baker Institute) is also at Rice University. I have no problem with anyone wanting to do a hit job on Mugabe in our
3070:
Why was this subject not discussed with the prof, an outline of the topic/article produced, and the sources listed. All before anything was written. It would become clear that there is very little one can write about on Knowledge on the subject of "Cannabinoids for epilepsy" -- stub at most. It
2134:
About the required use of real names, I know this has been discussed in the past, but (not surprisingly, given the amount of pixels that have been spilled) I'm hard pressed to remember exactly where. I know that some instructors believe that the use of real names leads students to act more like
3786:
Sandy, I'm glad to see your comment that this is better than most student work. I would have started an incident report just on the basis of Biosthmors' comments -- the student was alarmed, not unnaturally, to see that description, and she contacted me to see what could be done to improve the
1873:
article, this can only demonstrate the ignorance of the university and all of its academic staff regarding any basic understanding of dyslexia. So maybe the quality of the university and it staff should be considered prior to allowing any of their students edit medical articles, as incompetent
5149:
And why would we do something like this, that I personally have never had to do for any regular editor? Oh, so their professor can tell exactly what is their work and won't have to go through diffs and won't be inconvenienced and so they can get a grade. Right! Because their professor set
5341:
In a case like this (and I don't have time to look at it myself now in any detail), in which an editor repeatedly adds non-compliant text, do you--or anyone else--think it is worth simply protecting the relevant article? I would be prepared to do that, if that were the consensus of any such
4115:, you reverted to a version of the article that has Kimmyfromtexas's "Society and culture" section, but not her final version of that section. Any objections if I return that section to her final version, as of yesterday? I'd retitle it "Society and culture", but otherwise leave it alone.
3649:
Again, this appears to be editing of medical articles by a class that has never been informed of MEDMOS or MEDRS, and since it is easier for the prof to grade material put into one section, the creation of one non-MEDMOS section for the addition of new content. The following may be helpful:
2188:
That's an interesting theory, but it would seem to imply that if I were to start editing under my real name, I could never be blocked, because the blocking admin would then have to be blocked too. Of course all admins could edit under their real names, and then we would have no more admins.
2883:, unless I'm convinced otherwise, maybe the whole class should just be blocked for disruption and violation of Knowledge policies. And trout the WMF for helping put students and us in this situation. I've tried to do my best with this class, and I'm about ready to give up per my thread at
3863:
OK, Mike, in the vein of this "incident" being instructive for professors and others not that familiar with MEDRS, there is often confusion because some sorts of text (societal, history, legal) etc might not require MEDRS sourcing. That is not universally true, by the way, but for now
1892:
on track, and that whatever past accolades have been conferred upon this course, I suggest they didn't involved knowledge medical editors. Dolfrog knew the area and research; I helped with other policy/guideline stuff; the students wrote: without all three, we'd have another failure.
5125:
It's very nice of you to respond to me (she said through clenched teeth), even though I am unwatched, I posted here as a courtesy, and I happened to see this only because I came back to post the next one. Presumably you all will contact the professor who dropped 100 sandboxes on us.
4813:
Hmm. Am a little worried by the COI possibilities here, too. Also the Cato and Baker Institutes have very decided political standpoints (very right-wing). Some balance would be necessary here, and certainly note in the main text as to who exactly is providing the opinions cited.
2077:
We are told that students are rarely if ever "forced to" edit wikipedia. Surely under no circumstance should a student, even having "freely" chosen to edit wikipedia, be differentially graded (in even the minutest way) for not publishing their name on wikipedia. This is awful. Does
5141:
I did all the work of looking up her sources, adding PMIDs, tagging the primary sources, it was moved to sandbox, the article was deleted to make way for her move back, the same crap came back to mainspace for a second time, and I had to repeat all my work again. So now, she wants
741:
I can at least understand what Koller's sickle is (and I could even fix that version myself to make it more clear, but I can't do anything about the mess currently on the page). What are we to do with text like this and who fill fix it all? The profs? The ambassadors? Not in my
4044:
eventually goes back in. With student editing, they want the text added before Thanksgiving for their grade, they don't come back to discuss on talk after term-end, and we all lose. I hope Kimmyfromtexas will stay around to see that the good parts of her work are incorporated.
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The section "Society and Culture" was added by Kimmyfromtexas (first diff above) -- of course she also subsequently changed it. All the text in that section, unless I'm misreading the diffs, was contributed by her, so there's no question of her deleting an existing compliant
2428:, which is when insiders believe they are exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else. There is an interesting point whether BLP applies to a person whose real name is unknown (but who is known to be a student in a specific class who is writing about a specific topic.)
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I don't think so! If people are involved with plagiarism and we bring it up it reflects badly on the person who has plagiarized not the one who brings it up. Who else would deal with it? Pretend it never happens? Knowledge is live publishing and people need to realize that.
2285:
You missed this big "intentional plagiarism should not be presumed in the absence of strong evidence". Which means that when there is strong evidence one can assume plagiarism. I will block any admin who blocks an editor for bring forth issues of plagiarism in good faith.
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I came over here in a good mood. Really I did. Until I realized this was the second time I've done this for this student and wonder what will be the education program's approach to this very same probem next year when Thanksgiving approaches and students are desperate.
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The BLP rule at Knowledge is ironclad and hard-liners people who are so keen to enforce the rules on undergraduates and punish them hard will themselves either follow the rules closely or they will get called out & blocked for egregious misbehavior. better read
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I can only imagine how many little and big glitches I've made, too. And by the way, I too have been getting Wikimedia errors with almost every edit for at least two days; that has meant just about every edit has to be made twice, which has been quite frustrating.
5549:) which is also highly controversial with many researchers doubting its existence. The statement "Those with temporal lobe epilepsy normally develop Geschwind syndrome, as did Dostoyevsky." is completely false and quite harmful. The article is very much not NPOV.
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This bit should be in a section on epidemiology or history "The United States, for example, used to have a severe cholera problem not unlike those of current developing countries. There were three large cholera outbreaks in the 1800s, which can be attributed to
5072:. I can certainly handle the move back to the userspace if no one objects, but someone in tune with the content ought add the relevant text to the menopause article. Once that is done, I can advise the student how to deal with the user draft. Let me know. --
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about the relationship between disease and the social and economic factors that influence the course of the disease. This is important information that was missing from the article; the student added it, with references. Why should this section be removed?
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that changed the heading name. It is correct that the poorly sourced, unattributed, off-topic content, or content that belonged in other sections, was present before Kimmy touched it. This edit is mostly copy editing (helpful). Similarly, it looks like
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sample of the problems with student edits. We moved it out of mainspace once back to sandbox once, she wanted it moved back to sandbox a second time. The prof needs to understand that published is published. And no, it's not as bad as for example the
5952:. I've emphasized MEDRS multiple times to the classroom, but it still appears that it's not being followed by the students, to be honest. I think it was back in October during a Skype meeting when Professor Potter started to begin to understand how
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Hi Sandy. I checked my browser history and I did have the user's talk page open to issue a warning at 18:27 my local time; the edit must have failed to save in one of those Wikimedia-error things I am getting so often lately. Sorry about that. --
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Independently I haven't yet even looked at the Zimbabwe article to see if it is appropriate or an essay, but here we seem to have the creation of a new section which has some elements of being an advocacy piece rather than an encyclopedic entry.
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I don't think there's a COI concern -- there's no reason to suppose a student at a university shares the goals of any particular institute based at that university. Of course I agree that balance can be an issue with sources of known ideology.
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gets a faster response. For some reason, I just seem to have gotten kicked out of my email address connected to this account, but hopefully I'll hear soon if this is a class editing so we can contact the professor and try to work with her/him.
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Will anyone be checking the rest of the Rice course articles for sourcing problems of the type I encountered in the cholera articles? Political think tank opinions and news editorials should be used appropriately, if at all, and attributed.
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As Mike mentioned, I'm on Pacific and have spent my morning catching up on this. I have spoken with the professor in the past, though less so going into this semester (As far as I'm aware, his class didn't produce any big problems last term).
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This bit is already in the section on prevention "In terms of prevention, cholera cases are much less frequent in developed countries where governments have helped to establish water sanitation practices and effective medical treatments."
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Simply not true. Referring to a plagiarist as such is much less of an issue than plagiarism. Using your real name is not a get out of jail free card when it comes to copyright infringement. Maybe we need wider input / a RfC on this point.
1706:). The time we spent here was disproportionate, and I cannot say the outcome would have been as good as it was without our involvement. Nonetheless, I do want to commend the three students for helping create quality content. Regards,
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I've taken a look at it, and it's honestly not that bad. It is a bit long-winded in spots, and it omits a fair bit of normal information (like what counts as "confusion"), but I think it's a reasonable start that could be improved
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OK, that is only a smattering of what is being dropped in from sandbox all at once, obviously there's some course deadline today, it's not possible to keep up with, or correct the amount of work from this course. Who's doing it?
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Yes. I can assure you that if I tried to blame various diseasters in Venezuela on Chavez, using the Cato Institute or the Baker Institute as a source, the text would not last a New York minute. I've chopped a lot from the main
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You may find the shocking quote above by perusing the relevant histories, as my goal is not to impugn the student, but to highlight how eminently appropriate the criticism here has been. (Are we to hear from Steve Potter again?)
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First, many of us did what we thought the WMF/WEF/whatever wanted, and now we find out that university professors can't apparently read plain English? If university professors are unable to digest the very clear information at
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is that the students are working up their content in sandboxes – good! – and then moving them into mainspace when they feel ready to do so, even if they are incorrect about the appropriateness of the move. It seems to me that
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and every medical article I have looked at from this course. Every medical article I have looked at from the Rice University course has inappropriate use of sources, or incorrect article structure, or essay-like content, or
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not mentioned? Perhaps because it completely contradicts the point of the article? Even the low-quality-evidence of "Report of a parent survey of cannabidiol-enriched cannabis use in pediatric treatment-resistant epilepsy"
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and include it in their citations so that the few of us keeping up with medical articles can check sourcing is viewed as extreme. Further, if they took that simple step, they would be less likely then to use those primary
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student evaluations to determine the course grade, and they should not use them. If, however, we have faculty who are just telling students to grade one another, having some TA compile the student evaluations, and turning
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article that belongs in the Zimababwe cholera article (assuming a Zimbabwe cholera article is even needed-- I haven't yet checked whether it is compliant or an essay, and curiously, it is not even linked in this article
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there is no consensus for what you write. When did BLP issues start applying to editors / discussions on talk pages? It is for article space (we are not generally writing biographies about ourselves and fellow editors).
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once sourcing is checked and if it is determined if the content should be merged elsewhere. Who is doing this checking and sourcing cleanup? If the students would use PMIDs, checking for primary sources would be much
671:, lengthy discussion, attempts to educate, no text will result, and no benefit will result to Knowledge because these students do not have enough knowledge to be editing Knowledge articles, and they do not stay around.
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See the section below, where I discuss the problems with citing medical content to a political think tank, while not attributing those opinions to that think tank. I see now that the Baker Institute was cited in our
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but keep this incident open until I can go through and show (per Mike Christie's request) the problems, in the hopes that her instructors will learn a) how to use medical sources, and b) to instruct their students in
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That interpretation of BLP - that we cannot highlight editing problems without a "published source" because doing so is a slur on an editor's character - is outlandish. There is no chance of it being taken seriously.
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is to be commended for generally good quality work. Now, since there were/are two courses working in there, if one of them will finish merging the two different versions (table or not, and other inconsistencies).
3705:, and thanks for helping to develop the cholera article. What you have done in the past couple of days is great - I hope that you stay around to work with the community as we respond to your proposals. Thanks also
1996:. Sourcing, citations and attribution are all handled quite differently in an academic essay. It is no wonder students get confused by Knowledge, particularly when the instructor doesn't understand the difference.
1917:, then I think you have made the case that these professors and their courses do not belong on Knowledge. If they can't understand that information, then there are cognitive issues and they shouldn't be editing.
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This course and its students do not know the minimum requirements of editing medical articles. It is still troubling that it is being assumed that asking professors to instruct their students to look up a PMID at
5890:, no PMIDS, needs to be checked for secondary vs primary sources. It is hard to imagine this content isn't covered somewhere on Knowledge, but as there are few useful wikilinks, hard to tell where to look ...
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article-- maybe he deserves it-- but they should learn about attribution of opinion on Knowledge. And there is a potential COI here, which troubles me, because I saw that a lot of the new content in the main
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Kimmy started editing, and that the Society and culture section duplicated information that belonged in Prevention/Screening or History before she started editing. Kimmy did not create those problems in the
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cleaned up this article for non-MEDRS sources and prepared it for merge. But the student needs a page to be graded by today, so continues to re-add non-compliant text. Must I clean this up a third time?
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detailed below. So we have more of a problem in the Zimbabwe article than the Cholera article, but it can probably be said that Kimmy was only doing more of what she already found present in the article.
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The following three diffs represent all of KimmyfromTexas's work; the third one includes an IP contribution that is from Rice, so is likely to be her. It also includes some reference formatting by others.
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alleging that a specific person (with a real name) is guilty of plagiarism is a blatant violation of BLP and should be immediately erased, and the editor who made the allegation is liable to censure. (the
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teachers will be informing the student editors. We can only work with student editors if they make contact with us, which is not happening, they work on their own for the most part and ignore our comments.
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Sort of a course page on Wikiversity, asking students to edit Knowledge. It would be nice to have a Knowledge course page for coordinating work and making sure they source medical content correctly.
1837:. At all. So they should not be editing Knowledge medical articles. And it's too late to "admonish" your students to stay in sandbox; more than a dozen sandboxes were dropped in yesterday. Update on
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The professor doesn't require students to add work in a specific section to make it easier to grade; I've read the grading rubric and can be definite on that point. In general students in this class
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breaches MEDRS and MEDMOS and various other guidelines that affect Featured article status. It would be helpful to know what the course, instructor, etc is so they can all be brought up to speed.
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worked. Given that the class doesn't appear to understand MEDRS, blocking students who are working with topics that fall under MEDRS isn't off the table, in my opinion, as a preventative measure.
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keep up with. I'm trying. I'll get there. Something shiny (a walled POV garden in our cannabis articles) came up while I was dealing with this course's student essay on cannabis and epilepsy.
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And prodded the article. It had copyvio, uncited original research, essay-like editorializing, non-MEDRS sources, off-topic content that belonged in other articles, and one salvageable sentence.
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advisor, school newspaper, department chair, and parents is the best solution. I'm a parent, and I wouldn't put up with this being done to my kids in a school where I paid the bill. Unwatch.
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This "incident" is nowhere near as bad as what we usually encounter with student editing, so I'm unsure an "incident" report is even needed; the issues in this article are correctable, and the
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article, which is the only success I've seen so far in the medical realm, and I will be pointing out the pros and cons of your class editing in that article (there were two groups involved).
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Again, same negligent situation, no prof on board, why am I here? I'm here because I feel horribly for the students, who are the victims of a bad professor and a bad course and a bad idea.
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5596:), so I'll go have a look (I've a good dose of years' worth of hearing what his medical peers think of his work). If the article is highly sourced to Sacks', nuking is the best option.
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I perused the list of articles in this class. One case was bothersome enough (though almost all were troubled) that I proposed it for deletion and informed the student. The article was
1304:. There was no tag to indicate student editing, there is no course identified (but the editor says in edit summary on his talk page that he is with University of Manchester), and per
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So, I'm not sure where we are now; Doc James had to fix something on Sari, but we can probably go back to Kimmy's latest version if Doc is able to fix the Sari portion from there.
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in as the grades for the course, then that's educational malpractice as far as I'm concerned, and it's exactly the kind of thing that makes me furious about my former profession. --
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No, they certainly don't "need to". Please, have some respect for your students. As we see above, other students are repeating this hogwash (not surprising, but that's an aside).
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incidents right now, that I'm not even trying to post them all. I posted this one as a sample in the "how do we determine" if it's a student and if so what to do about it sense.
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when it suits him. He says there are (unspecified) "contradictory policies" but he seems to be prone to contradiction himself: he has not read the BLP rules (4 hours ago he wrote
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using this wiki as a cheap-to-run homework marking exercise. And the marking scheme for the students seems to give 0..2 points for each of the 10 "good characteristics" on the
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If you have any comments or suggestions you would like me to pass on to the class as a whole, please email me. Here is my Course Page: Thanks for all your help and patience,
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5391:. WhatamI is willing to leave a whole lot of text that could be covered via wikilinks-- fine. I unwatched; I'll let her do the cleanup the third time. That makes me happy.
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I spent another hour and a half tagging and cleaning up this article (partial repeat of yesterday's work), and in its current status, don't see why it won't end up merged to
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article-- will leave it to others to determine if they want to chop further or if attribution is enough. I hope the instructor will learn some sourcing lessons from this.
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Jmh649 perhaps thinks he's balanced--but I worry about that. He has announced that he will be the prosecutor, judge and jury in cases he selects, and that he will defy both
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3913:(ec) Good point about marginally good edits; I'd like to come back to some of your points, though, because I'd like to get a couple more bits of information down first.
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but this is a single case. And one documented by the popular press, not the medical profession. Why was the Cochrane Epilepsy Group's review "Cannabinoids for epilepsy"
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Ongoing consequences of students trying to add content when they have only edited in sandbox, haven't engaged the project, and don't yet even know how to edit Knowledge.
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Graywash, I read your insightful comments with great interest. I wonder how many other editors might also be getting discouraged from working with student projects. --
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And, now the article is back, after multiple moves to the wrong places, with ... all of the work I did to flag primary sources gone. In other words, my time wasted.
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That is doubtlessly because they have been carefully trained, since their very first little one-paragraph essay in elementary school, that titles are supposed to use
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The student didn't dump everything in at the end of the class; the three diffs are dated 20 October, 5 November, and 26 November, and each has substantial content.
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I have now looked up the PMIDs (this instructor could save untold amounts of work if s/he would require students to add PMIDs), and flagged the dubious sourcing.
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article, but preserve the edit history in the userspace. Once the merge was completed, the userspace draft could be deleted. This is consistent with advice at
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I can see that this is a valuable learning experience for the student and may teach him more careful research habits. I can't see that Knowledge benefitted.
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Seriously, let's worry less about format issues and more about content and sourcing. Wrong assertions poorly sourced can be difficult to remedy after the fact.
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Jami, I'm reading all 'round the Wiki that AFC has a serious backlog and scanty review; I've seen numerous instances of that myself. But generally, there are
5919:-compliant sources are used. Why has this professor-- at this stage of the game-- not explained PMIDs to these students? And why is something as simple as
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folks will probably get in there fast and do it. But in case it is instructive for the professor, my comments from the article talk page are copied below.
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I use my real name. Knowledge is a rough place. This is live publishing and can get as nasty as any other academic battle in the real world / ivory tower.
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work for other editors than a clearly bad addition does, as the clearly bad one is more easily reverted, while the marginally good one takes more study.
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article. The question of how to include economic and social context has come up before so I think this is a good example to use for that discussion.
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I've looked-- another example of why we need help from the participants of this board in dealing with articles like this one. In theory, there is
3172:, but I don't think the students are being graded upon making sure the edits follow MEDRS. Also, I don't think the students understand the policy
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rule says "a reliable, published source" is needed and "Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing.")
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replaced it with a section that is actually text that belongs in numerous other sections (causes, prevention, screening, history and others), and
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suggest that ambassadors should themselves follow the rules closely --even the ones they dislike--and don't think they are above the Wiki rules.
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was transformed from being about a subtype of Alexia (acquired dyslexia) to being about developmental dyslexia which is currently covered by the
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article, which I prodded after merging one salvageable sentence. There is salvageable content here, but not enough that it can't be covered in
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On your first point, Mike, I am happy to address that. I've had this on my watchlist since Kimmy posted, and have been raising the concern at
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with it. This is a student essay; the instructor of this course needs to be instructed to no longer have his/her students work in mainspace.
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The new content is cited to think tanks (like Cato Institue and Baker Institute) and news editorials. And that was done without attribution.
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I am okay with leaving the society and culture section this person added. I also have no issue with someone moving it. IT still needs work.
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Yes hope this student stays around. Working to get cholera to GA would be important. It they could start formatting the refs with PMIDs per
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It's not allowed to say student A has plagiarized. That violates BLP rule directly and flagrantly and it also violates the guidelines under
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either ask the prof to stop or get him to significantly downsize the scope of the assignment. There are just too many things wrong here.
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Or perhaps Knowledge has a whole bunch of contradictory policies and it is about using common sense to apply them in a balanced manner.
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Thanks! I'm glad to hear all of that, and I apologize if it sounded like I was criticizing you. Good luck with your end of semester. --
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The biggest problem is the lack of willingness by the students to join wikipedia, and communicate with existing editors. Last year the
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time when the article was likely In the News. I was ready to applaud the article until I turned to the section edited by the student.
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Having commended Ana for tagging the article page early on, I do need to point out that the Georgia students simply do not understand
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Sandy, this could easily be moved back into the student's sandbox and then the appropriate text from that version merged into the
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Done, and thank you. I'm going to mark this incident as closed. Sandy, I have a request for you that I'll put on your talk page.
1415:. It is not reasonable to expect any new person to know that Knowledge's Manual of Style has chosen the less-common convention.
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just before term-end, just as regular editors are gearing up for holidays, and these students had all term to engage the project.
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I had to find the sources (which were generally incorrectly identified and linked), and I had to attribute every single source.
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Agreed (re use of wiki). As a housekeeping note, I edited my post after you posted a reply, which wasn't there when I started.
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and have no idea what Koller's sickle is. A page full of gibberish. On the other hand, if I go back before the student edits,
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is an editorial nonetheless, and the Cato Institute and Baker Institute are political think tanks, not medical organizations.
1951:"I did not know about the Plagiarism. I thought as long as you have reference you will be okay to post materials in Knowledge."
1695:. Just yesterday-- as all of the Georgia students were dropping their sandboxes into articles-- and after much discussion on
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Upon further analysis of the diffs (as Mike has repeatedly and correctly urged), I was wrong, and Kimmy's edits improved the
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just came to my attention via the notification system; it doesn't affect me, but is another example of the typical problem.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
3254:, would you mind if I merged this section to the rest of the Georgia IT section above, so it will all archive together?
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Ugh. I've deleted the redirect. If need be, the page can be recreated or (as you suggest) the material can be added to
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there are not enough of us medical editors to go around and the education program is creating more than we can deal with
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Nope, after spending two hours in the Zimbabwe article, I've seen enough and I'm done with this series. I say revert.
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and the article is still fairly incomprehensible, and likely to stay tagged indefinitely. (With the added twist that
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identifiers for her sources), and whatever portions of it are salvabeable need to be moved to the correct sections.
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I should also point out that here we had three students overseen by two well-established medical editors (myself and
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section (I realize it's trivial, but with a course that has been running this long, can the instructors not explain
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before accusing anyone of plagiarism--allegations "must be explicitly attributed to a reliable, published source".
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understood by the author; plus the students disappear when they're done anyway, so what's the point? That one's the
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Could an admin or someone who better understands the sandbox/article moving issues here please help this student?
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Since we now know it is unlikely that Kimmy will be back to maintain these articles, let's deal with this article.
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Perhaps other people will have other thoughts - are you staying with us to discuss this? You said that you made
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Well, I salvaged the one sentence that this student contributed to Knowledge and merged it to its rightful home.
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Knowledge talk:Articles for creation/The Living with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (LCOPD) questionnaire
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1634:(noting that I am a famously inefficient editor, often taking three or four edits to do what others do in one)
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AfC, so haven't they already been reviewed? Anyway, I'll ping him and ask if he's editing as a part of class.
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needs to be checked; medical sources would be preferred, and news and think tank opinion needs attribution.
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Yes, I completely agree and lets drop this dangerous business about threatening to call out students by name.
2496:--all false) and yet he promises to retaliate against any administrator who enforces the BLP rules (he said:
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Jmh649 is unfamiliar with the rules here at Knowledge when he falsely states that BLP "is for article space."
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Yes. It needs to be made very clear that it took the two of us (Dolfrog and me) working quite a bit to keep
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I have only glanced at a large new addition here and see some problems (there are others, but for a start):
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still a draft. So the prof knew it had been chosen by the student. Now perhaps Cannabidiol will be the next
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Further, it is curious that students seem to be exempt from the usual procedures in dealing with copyvio:
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would have been better than CNN. Most of the sources cited are primary research papers on rats and mice.
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has been trying to say :) :) the problems in this article were present before student editing, except:
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3642:(which will be made more difficult than necessary because Kimmyfromtexas has provided no PMIDs, that is
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has done much better work than we see from, for example, the Georgia IT class or a typical psych class.
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Education Program talk:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)/Timeline
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for medical statements (not as bad as what we usually see with student editing, but some nonetheless).
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properly just warrants a sentence in some other article, along the lines of the Cochrane conclusion.
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that might be used to expand the article, but I'm not convinced the article shouldn't be merged to
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editor call a person a plagiarist is a much worse violation than what the student may have done.
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narry a PMID in there, so I would have to look up every source to determine if primary sources or
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When did BLP issues start applying to editors / discussions on talk pages? It is for article space
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to do it all again, so it can come back a third time and I can do the same work the third time?
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article, and a revert is probably not helpful, as she mostly copyedited. It is apparent that (as
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week. I have admonished them to stay in their Sandbox until they have resolved tagged issues.
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s spread through interior waterways like the Erie Canal and routes along the Eastern Seaboard."
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moving content from sandboxes to mainspace, for the students' benefit as well as Knowledge's. --
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this way, and we may need to give some thought to recommending some feedback to student editors
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I will block any admin who blocks an editor for bring forth issues of plagiarism in good faith.
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Education Program talk:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
759:. Who is going to do that work? I've already spent more time on this article than it merits.
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do that; in fact if you look at the diffs above you'll see Kimmyfromtexas didn't do it either.
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granny here, I have to wonder why the right people aren't thinking this stuff through better.
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Five new redlinked accounts, editing the same way at the same times, reverting for each other,
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Education Program:Rice University/Poverty, Justice, Human Capabilities, Section 2 (Fall 2013)
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that it's entirely appropriate to revert suspected plagiarism as soon as it is discovered. --
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Education Program:Rice University/Poverty, Justice, Human Capabilities, Section 2 (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Rice University/Poverty, Justice, Human Capabilities, Section 2 (Fall 2013)
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in one hour. Uncited text, no PMIDs, will take a lot of work to determine if MEDRS is met.
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Once the text is cleaned up and the primary sources are removed, this is a likely merge to
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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she had not planned further work on this article, she may come back after the term ends.
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall_2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
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5036:. I'm not sure how to advise her. What she has now is content that should be merged to
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Education Program:Case Western Reserve University/ANTH 302 Darwinian Medicine (Fall 2013)
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Education Program:Case Western Reserve University/ANTH 302 Darwinian Medicine (Fall 2013)
5884:-- will end up merged if anything can be salvaged, and who is going to do that cleanup?
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3743:. In looking at this, some people are saying that all the content on Zimbabwea brings
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4237:) is the only area for discussion? Or should Doc James have reverted further back?
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2038:. The peer reviews being placed on the talk page of this class's articles include:
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What would be most helpful would be for students and profs to a) learn how to use
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about his? Both specifically this class, and in general to stop it in future? --
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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medical? Really? Did this course give these students any grounding at all in
4050:
by Doc James-- is that as much really bad text is going in to medical articles
3920:, but there was no response (which is the usual outcome when students do this).
3916:
Kimmyfromtexas did post on the talk page about her intentions for the article,
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5516:
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I invite anyone interested to scroll through my edits, one by one. These are
3747:
weight on that topic into this article, and perhaps would be better placed at
3737:
retitled the "Society and Culture" section to "Influence of Political Systems"
3526:
3511:, and essayish. In my opinion, it is unencylopedic writing, plain and simple.
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5900:(why oh why is this professor not explaining MSH), and moved to correct name
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The Quality of Life Assessment of Growth Hormone Deficiency in Adults Measure
762:
Wonderful; now we have an article redirecting to a student sandbox. Will an
5388:
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is at work on the article, so I'll deal with the Zimbabwe article for now.
3874:
so they don't end up duplicating content. Also, the Zimbabwe info here was
3448:
3168:
I've tried to do what I can with this class. That's why you see WP:MEDRS on
965:, the student completely replaced the existing page with the sandbox draft:
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surely student editing so blunter forms of dispute resolution can't be used.
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by now), flag the primary sources, copyedit the lead, and tag the article:
3939:
More in a bit; I suspect an (ec) coming up so want to get this posted....
3090:
Folks here might not now that Colin is the author of the Featured article
961:
defeats much of the intended purpose of sandbox editing. In this case, at
5990:
All of these articles still need to be addressed; will the instructors (
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it was only revealed this week that we have two different classes editing
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Yes this student added the "society and culture" section in these edits
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Before reverting the additions, I'd like to specifically ask about the
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students who are still learning the most basic basics of how to edit?
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Unknown, but user page edit summary indicates University of Manchester
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which is simply a google scholar search. This one goes nowherereally
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I haven't had time to review all of them, but with the exception of
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I'm afraid all of this editor's articles are going to need review.
2034:
Having noticed another twist, I think this assignment is downright
1994:
Knowledge:Education noticeboard/Archive3#Examples from universities
3713:
for critiquing this content. I came here because of the notice at
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Education Program:Boston College/Developmental Biology (Fall 2013)
192:
Education Program:Boston College/Developmental Biology (Fall 2013)
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is a Featured article, meaning text added there must comply with
1915:
Knowledge:Student assignments#Editing medicine and health topics
1158:
21:56 . . User account Calpoly90 (talk | contribs) was created
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problems. I am preparing to add another update, regarding the
3834:
2043:
1167:
21:55 . . User account Jaykayfit (talk | contribs) was created
1164:
21:56 . . User account Vball26 (talk | contribs) was created
96:
89:
29:
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Not student editing; I will follow up with original poster.
1161:
21:56 . . User account Khp412 (talk | contribs) was created
944:
Sandboxes: an unintended (or at least unexpected) consequence
3870:
and add PMIDs, and b) understand where to place content per
915:. Are the professor and students aware of how to apply our
3660:
Guidelines for organization of sections in medical articles
1992:
I've had the same response posted on my talk page. Look at
5364:
I've just asked SandyGeorgia on its talk page why two new
4789:
article was cited to bakerinstitute.org. The sourcing in
4080:
that would help. Have added some of the content back in.
950:
User talk:Tryptofish#Molecular Neuroscience Article Edits
3885:
As student editing goes, I think Kimmy gets an "A", but
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One student edit results in 72 edits for Dolfrog and me,
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section, the text jumps out at me as incredibly wordy,
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the other course appeared and pre-empted her work, and
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What I am finding in this article is very troubling.
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on my talk page. The student posted a section to the
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9. Used real name or has real name on User TALK page:
2050:
9. Used real name or has real name on User TALK page:
1092:
It looks like term-end student editing; I gave them {{
5620:will come back and do the hours of cleanup needed.
5592:? Absolutely not. That is right up my territory (
2562:
Steve M. Potter, PhD -- Georgia Inst. of Technology
2080:
Steve M. Potter, PhD -- Georgia Inst. of Technology
1809:
Steve M. Potter, PhD -- Georgia Inst. of Technology
4002:The link to the Baker Insitute is used frequently
3996:The refs are poorly formatted. One gives this url
3751:. I think this is a suggestion worth more thought.
3670:Knowledge:Knowledge Signpost/2008-06-30/Dispatches
952:. One of the things that seems to be happening in
5868:November 18, they all start dropping in articles,
3965:since then. What needs to be understood is that
3715:Knowledge:Education_noticeboard/Incidents#Cholera
3549:some of it does need better sourcing per MEDRS.
3242:an admin cleaned it up and no warning was issued.
1829:As to specifics, your students do not understand
5556:Who fixes this article? Can any of it be kept?
4610:just moved bad text around, but didn't add it.
4188:Reopened per Sandy's comments on the talk page.
1910:still troubled by the implications of this post.
1120:we'll see if it comes back after Thanksgiving.
5368:have been tagged as being unreliable sources.
5128:Oh, but ... I do care ... because ... oops ...
4621:that is not the case with the Zimbabwe article,
3893:, and this text should have stayed in sandbox.
678:is dropped in at term-end, it will be reverted.
5040:, so ... I don't know. Thanks, and unwatch.
622:"it can be incorporated into the table later",
1699:article, Ana added two new primary sources.
8:
2095:& roughly 11:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
1733:
5882:Primary sources, formatting problems, essay
3638:All of the new text needs to be vetted for
3579:Kimmyfromtexas removed the appropriate for
1734:Georgia Tech's IntroNeuro course discussion
1632:Contributions since students began editing,
705:Additional medical samples I have uncovered
5185:Never mind, I responded the best I could:
5111:The following discussion has been closed.
5086:
4322:So, I say it's fine to revert her changes,
4282:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
4160:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
4100:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
4036:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
3855:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
3626:used a few sources that don't comply with
2819:The following discussion has been closed.
2794:
2608:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
2464:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
2418:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
2311:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
2224:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
1401:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
5913:Another one just dropped in from sandbox,
5909:Congenital distal spinal muscular atrophy
3121:Full article listing, for ANI resolution.
2635:Article prodded, two sentences merged to
1308:, additions are best discussed on talk.
5998:) be doing cleanup once the term ends?
5794:Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)
2063:0 -Need to put your real name somewhere.
5137:already did this once for this student.
4710:First, I believe it should be moved to
4111:Glad to hear those positive comments.
1693:Knowledge's medical sourcing guidelines
501:Another potential undetermined course,
279:Another potential undetermined course,
3726:clarifying the sari filtering practice
1564:No incident here, article is stable.
1356:Ankylosing Spondylitis Quality of Life
115:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1622:version Oct 13, before student edits,
7:
5064:article. The move would delete the
4938:The following discussion is closed.
4910:Postmenopausal confusion, Georgia IT
4667:And, now I've been back through the
4513:article. I am more concerned about
3601:I was incorrect and my apologies to
2661:The following discussion is closed.
1586:The following discussion is closed.
1205:The following discussion is closed.
5158:wrong with this picture? Next ...
3782:Diffs from Kimmyfromtexas's changes
3730:developing the transmission section
1381:Students seem to really like caps.
456:, Mike Christie, JMathewson (WMF),
234:, Mike Christie, JMathewson (WMF),
3583:"Society and culture" section, and
2859:I responded the best I know how.
28:
4589:This edit sources medical content
4381:section, which is student work.
4351:copypasted the same message to me
1336:Migraine Specific Quality of Life
187:test case below, these problems:
5413:The discussion above is closed.
3312:The discussion above is closed.
1725:The discussion above is closed.
1548:The discussion above is closed.
1296:and adhere to guidelines such as
735:I can read the entire lead here,
100:
34:
4552:Followup from User:SandyGeorgia
4046:Another point-- just raised at
3833:Have listed some concerns here
3665:Our medical sourcing guidelines
2628:Help needed for another student
1831:our medical sourcing guidelines
917:our medical sourcing guidelines
18:Knowledge:Education noticeboard
5982:}}) while signing a reply, thx
5894:Central Nervous System Fatigue
5385:Cannabidiol effect on epilepsy
4917:Looks like this is in hand. --
3529:}}) while signing a reply, thx
3194:}}) while signing a reply, thx
2950:Cannabidiol effect on epilepsy
2905:}}) while signing a reply, thx
2832:This post appeared on my talk.
2698:Cannabidiol effect on epilepsy
1835:our general medical guidelines
1332:Multiple other problems here:
921:our general medical guidelines
1:
5985:10:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
5948:Thanks for raising the issue
5943:00:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
5671:23:32, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
5658:17:16, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
5635:16:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
5611:16:19, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
5406:18:55, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
5378:18:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
5356:18:10, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
5336:16:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
5310:Talk:Postmenopausal confusion
5202:11:25, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
5173:10:36, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
5105:11:25, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
5082:16:55, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
5055:15:59, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
5034:Talk:Postmenopausal confusion
4931:20:33, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4905:22:21, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4852:22:13, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4828:21:34, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4808:18:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4765:17:18, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4741:16:01, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4691:22:10, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4662:21:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4639:19:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4532:19:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4505:17:56, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4481:17:03, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
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4428:14:46, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
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4369:04:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
4344:16:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
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4255:13:23, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
4206:13:23, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
4184:18:52, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4162:18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4140:Yes would be cool with that.
4133:18:20, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4102:18:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4069:18:05, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
4038:17:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
3984:17:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
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3620:19:18, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
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3305:05:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
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3197:19:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
3164:18:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
3137:13:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
3109:05:24, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
3083:13:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
2928:11:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
2908:11:15, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
2876:10:56, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
2850:10:36, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
2813:11:30, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
2654:22:48, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
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2570:20:56, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
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2004:21:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
1985:20:15, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
1940:17:01, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
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1856:18:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
1817:17:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
1721:18:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
1637:Class1, unregistered course,
1579:22:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
1543:16:13, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
1522:15:53, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
1494:23:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
1479:18:50, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
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1377:17:12, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
1327:16:15, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
1198:16:27, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
1154:09:38, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
1135:00:37, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
1111:00:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
1094:subst:Welcome medical student
986:18:31, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
938:19:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
887:16:26, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
864:00:16, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
845:22:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
822:16:32, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
803:16:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
781:16:11, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
700:15:59, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
649:21:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
6013:15:20, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
5902:if this article even belongs
5789:18:19, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
5706:01:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
5533:There are problems with the
4948:Admin help needed by student
4875:10:26, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
4288:I'm okay with what is there
3722:updating this date reference
1557:Agraphia: we have a good one
1176:University of Manchester, AD
5575:) 13:19, November 29, 2013
4702:Zimbabwean cholera outbreak
4696:Zimbabwean cholera outbreak
4515:Zimbabwean cholera outbreak
4379:Cholera#Society and culture
3749:Zimbabwean cholera outbreak
3377:Zimbabwean cholera outbreak
3250:then removed the copyvio.
613:the same article.) Student
6028:
5291:See earlier discussion at
5133:up here on this same page?
764:admin active on this board
669:User talk:Sarmocid/sandbox
5090:never mind, I handled it
3247:I saved it to my sandbox,
2798:never mind, I handled it
1118:whole thing was reverted;
5888:Cerebral atherosclerosis
5807:Test case at the old ENB
5415:Please do not modify it.
5218:Postmenopausal confusion
5114:Please do not modify it.
5066:Postmenopausal confusion
4959:Postmenopausal confusion
4940:Please do not modify it.
4646:followup note for Kimmy.
4353:. Sandy's plan is best.
3314:Please do not modify it.
2822:Please do not modify it.
2679:Test case at the old ENB
2663:Please do not modify it.
1747:Test case at the old ENB
1727:Please do not modify it.
1604:Test case at the old ENB
1588:Please do not modify it.
1550:Please do not modify it.
1341:Asthma Life Impact Scale
1306:WP:OWN#Featured articles
1207:Please do not modify it.
746:Postmenopausal confusion
718:Test case at the old ENB
663:Unproductive discussion,
401:Test case at the old ENB
172:Test case at the old ENB
5866:I As I've always said,
4591:to the Baker Institute.
3781:
3672:explains how to search
2424:perhaps the problem is
1528:Thanksgiving holiday.
676:User talk:Lek39/sandbox
5747:La Trobe University ??
4557:Here are Kimmy's edits
3655:Our medical guidelines
3592:added material to the
2031:Thank you Tryptofish.
1841:coming this morning.
1139:Also, this is weird:
1053:: Unknown (Cal Poly?)
963:Molecular neuroscience
948:Please take a look at
908:sex-selective abortion
615:version before Dolfrog
4517:. Continued below.
4318:responded on my talk;
3756:your final submission
3571:Problematic additions
1965:Vision Rehabilitation
1867:phonological dyslexia
478:Undetermined course,
256:Undetermined course,
113:of past discussions.
5876:Sandbox to published
5767:At least 26 of them.
5755:Maybe Leighblackall?
4720:Political Influences
4716:Cholera in Venezuela
3503:When compared to an
2938:Why is this allowed?
739:to this old version,
665:nothing will result.
5847:Online volunteers:
5506:Online volunteers:
5248:Online volunteers:
4989:Online volunteers:
4776:the changes I made.
4712:Cholera in Zimbabwe
4597:(we don't do that).
3741:the usual structure
3544:User:Kimmyfromtexas
3020:Online volunteers:
2768:Online volunteers:
1781:Online volunteers:
1290:Alzheimer's disease
1222:Alzheimer's disease
683:There are many more
183:In addition to the
5547:Geschwind syndrome
4941:
4327:WP:MEDMOS#Sections
4218:Reopened; comments
3872:WP:MEDMOS#Sections
3581:WP:MEDMOS#Sections
2664:
1628:as of this writing
1589:
1208:
617:and I cleaned up.
438:, JMathewson (WMF)
424:, JMathewson (WMF)
216:, JMathewson (WMF)
202:, JMathewson (WMF)
5983:
5950:User:SandyGeorgia
5594:Tourette syndrome
5577:
5563:comment added by
5183:
5182:
4939:
3891:Louisa May Alcott
3530:
3473:this conversation
3445:Online volunteers
3195:
2906:
2881:User:SandyGeorgia
2856:
2855:
2662:
2072:
2071:
1919:Louisa May Alcott
1587:
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1063:Online volunteers
1006:Spondylolisthesis
992:Spondylolisthesis
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119:current main page
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5854:JMathewson (WMF)
5805:Refactored from
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5735:Dental therapist
5723:Dental emergency
5698:
5650:
5627:
5603:
5584:as a source for
5576:
5557:
5535:Ecstatic seizure
5528:Connor Beveridge
5513:JMathewson (WMF)
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1639:Midd Intro Neuro
1602:Refactored from
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1310:This new content
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399:Refactored from
258:Midd Intro Neuro
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5996:Professorpotter
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5842:Professorpotter
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5739:Dental hygenist
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5601:
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5501:Professorpotter
5449:
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5366:review articles
5342:discussion. --
5326:
5243:Professorpotter
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5070:WP:Userfication
5045:
4984:Professorpotter
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1664:Professorpotter
1626:version Nov 19,
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5923:not explained?
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4748:Very troubling
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3762:Blue Rasberry
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3703:Kimmyfromtexas
3678:
3677:
3676:and use PMIDs.
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3050:ketogenic diet
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5758:Leighblackall
5756:
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5727:Dental phobia
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4859:Mike Christie
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4582:Mike Christie
4579:
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4490:More below.
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4392:Mike Christie
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4117:Mike Christie
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766:please fix?
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470:Colleenfugate
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5582:Oliver Sacks
5559:— Preceding
5555:
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185:motor system
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5752:Instructor:
5711:Oral health
5316:I have now
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4433:Gandydancer
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3505:appropriate
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1643:Students:
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1431:LeadSongDog
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1273:Instructor:
742:experience.
631:Ana Minchew
563:Ahowerton93
446:DStrassmann
341:Ahowerton93
224:DStrassmann
107:This is an
5992:Imran Naim
5966:Biosthmors
5954:WP:PRIMARY
5850:Biosthmors
5838:Imran Naim
5719:Article(s)
5509:Biosthmors
5497:Imran Naim
5430:Article(s)
5251:Biosthmors
5239:Imran Naim
5074:Mike Cline
4992:Biosthmors
4980:Imran Naim
4726:by now?)
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4612:Same here.
3513:Biosthmors
3440:RobinPaige
3432:Instructor
3327:Article(s)
3178:Biosthmors
3174:WP:PRIMARY
3023:Biosthmors
3011:Imran Naim
2889:Biosthmors
2771:Biosthmors
2759:Imran Naim
2576:Tryptofish
2517:Tryptofish
2191:Tryptofish
2155:Tryptofish
2016:Tryptofish
1784:Biosthmors
1772:Imran Naim
1668:Biosthmors
1660:Imran Naim
1645:Mdreher528
1436:come howl!
1409:title case
1065:: Unknown
1057:Instructor
978:Tryptofish
450:RobinPaige
228:RobinPaige
5389:menopause
5135:Jbmurray
5062:menopause
5038:menopause
4644:I left a
4619:However,
4608:this edit
4387:Doc James
4266:Doc James
4223:Doc James
4144:Doc James
4113:Doc James
4084:Doc James
4078:WP:MEDHOW
4020:Doc James
3839:Doc James
3720:Good job
3707:Lbockhorn
2592:Doc James
2448:Doc James
2402:Doc James
2295:Doc James
2252:bobrayner
2208:Doc James
2036:unethical
1904:Further,
1680:Student:
1649:CWright93
1616:Article:
1385:Doc James
1302:WP:MEDMOS
1085:Jaykayfit
1081:Calpoly90
1059:: Unknown
870:menopause
787:menopause
757:menopause
583:Megmccabe
543:Nickig419
466:Twoods158
462:Nadhika99
458:JoyceChou
361:Megmccabe
321:Nickig419
244:Twoods158
240:Nadhika99
236:JoyceChou
151:Archive 5
143:Archive 3
138:Archive 2
132:Archive 1
22:Incidents
5763:Students
5590:WP:MEDRS
5586:anything
5573:contribs
5561:unsigned
5352:contribs
5344:jbmurray
5306:and also
5277:contribs
5264:Student:
5215:Article:
5018:contribs
5005:Student:
4956:Article:
4927:contribs
4919:jbmurray
4867:contribs
4824:contribs
4816:jbmurray
4603:the edit
4601:This is
4571:article
4400:contribs
4276:contribs
4247:contribs
4198:contribs
4176:contribs
4154:contribs
4125:contribs
4094:contribs
4030:contribs
3949:contribs
3924:section.
3876:WP:UNDUE
3849:contribs
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3509:WP:UNDUE
3490:contribs
3117:agraphia
3065:24237632
3057:22696383
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2788:Hbarton3
2694:Article:
2602:contribs
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2218:contribs
2122:Graywash
2085:Graywash
1977:Graywash
1908:, I am
1901:sources.
1890:agraphia
1871:dyslexia
1839:agraphia
1825:agraphia
1655:Class2,
1618:Agraphia
1395:contribs
1298:WP:MEDRS
1294:WP:WIAFA
1279:Student:
1218:Article:
1069:Students
919:and our
799:contribs
791:jbmurray
593:contribs
573:contribs
553:contribs
533:contribs
523:Kcvaught
513:contribs
490:contribs
371:contribs
351:contribs
331:contribs
311:contribs
301:Kcvaught
291:contribs
268:contribs
41:Archives
20: |
6004:Georgia
5934:Georgia
5905:easier.
5822:Course:
5780:Georgia
5744:Course:
5697:Georgia
5689:seizure
5649:Georgia
5626:Georgia
5602:Georgia
5524:Student
5481:Course:
5452:protect
5447:history
5397:Georgia
5327:Georgia
5223:Course:
5193:Georgia
5164:Georgia
5096:Georgia
5046:Georgia
4964:Course:
4896:Georgia
4871:library
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4835:cholera
4799:Georgia
4791:cholera
4787:cholera
4756:Georgia
4732:Georgia
4682:Georgia
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4630:Georgia
4578:cholera
4569:cholera
4561:cholera
4523:Georgia
4511:cholera
4496:Georgia
4441:Georgia
4419:Georgia
4404:library
4335:Georgia
4298:Georgia
4290:for now
4251:library
4202:library
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3975:Georgia
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2531:Rjensen
2502:Rjensen
2430:Rjensen
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2271:Rjensen
2266:WP:PLAG
2237:Rjensen
2174:Rjensen
1931:Georgia
1923:cholera
1921:is not
1876:dolfrog
1847:Georgia
1756:Course:
1712:Georgia
1704:Dolfrog
1570:Georgia
1534:Georgia
1470:Georgia
1462:so many
1368:Georgia
1318:Georgia
1275:Unknown
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1239:protect
1234:history
1189:Georgia
1145:Georgia
1126:Georgia
1102:Georgia
1073:Vball26
1023:protect
1018:history
1001:Article
929:Georgia
904:Cholera
878:Georgia
855:Georgia
836:Georgia
813:Georgia
772:Georgia
691:Georgia
640:Georgia
432:Sanetti
422:Keilana
418:Hakeleh
388:Samples
210:Sanetti
200:Keilana
196:Hakeleh
159:Various
110:archive
5976:notify
5921:WP:MSH
5898:WP:MSH
5685:PubMed
5456:delete
5293:WP:ENB
5207:Update
4885:Wrapup
4724:WP:MSH
4595:How to
4573:before
4364:(talk)
4349:Kimmy
4316:Kimmy
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2170:WP:BLP
1958:killer
1898:PubMed
1243:delete
1077:Khp412
1051:Course
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627:before
620:Sure,
503:Chs3ez
281:Chs3ez
6001:Sandy
5931:Sandy
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5777:Sandy
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5473:views
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5361:upon.
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2110:Colin
1998:Colin
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875:Sandy
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810:Sandy
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5974:pls
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5960:and
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5939:Talk
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5631:Talk
5617:some
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5569:talk
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789:. --
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