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people have at least heard of it. For this article I consulted both the first full-length book written about the battle as well as the most recent research available plus lots of what was written in between. It amazed me to see how much of what I learned in school was inaccurate or POV. Please put aside any preconceptions you might have of what happened and enjoy this comprehensive overview of what actually occurred. Much thanks to
1329:, but one from which all Mexicans had been driven out in December 1835. (Britannica, for example, begins its narrative in 1835 and it can then proceed in a linear fashion.) In a lead the author has to mention the pivotal event first and this creates a bit of a dilemma, if they are also trying to be sensitive to the needs of unversed readers. I've mentioned some of these things in the detailed comments,
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The main text (post-lead) is nicely done. It has enough details to keep us on our toes and the narrative flows nicely. However, the lead will likely be confusing to readers unfamiliar with the history. One reason for this, of course, is that San
Antonio, in March 1836, was in an unsettled time (no
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Of all the articles I have worked on, I am most proud of this one. I originally intended to complete the article by April 2008, but the sheer amount of research necessary pushed the date out just a bit ;) The Battle of the Alamo is probably the most famous event in Texas history, and I suspect most
1460:
The list of defenders article needs much, much work. I started on it ages ago and got distracted. I am intending at some point to attempt to bring that to featured list quality, but not any time soon. In response to your post, though, I scanned the list just now, and I suspect that at most there
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Thanks, Fowler, I'll work my way through your prose suggestions soon. The McArdle collection is PD (he died before 1923). I saw that drawing, but I thought it was pretty messy (I can't read most of the handwriting) and didn't know if it would help. Let me think about whether I can create a custom
1529:
The list of defenders is linked from the template; it is shown as "Defenders" in the left column; a few of the more notable people are listed to the right. The list is not complete or entirely accurate at this point. As you mention, several of the survivors have been omitted, and I believe that
931:
Good question. Santa Anna was a general who became president and, while in office, led the army against Texas. I've added the date of the revocation of the
Constitution to put that in better context, but I'm not sure how to clarify Santa Anna's roles better. I could add a footnote mentioning his
1424:
also includes links to a dozen biographies for more prominent Alamo participants. There are most likely a few more individuals for which a separate biography is warranted and these should be identified (say on the list's talk page). It's also quite possible that some members of the list
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Most
Americans, however, are more familiar with the myths spread by many of the film and television adaptations, including the 1955 miniseries Walt Disney's Davy Crockett: King of the Wild Frontier and John Wayne's 1960 film The Alamo. - If you going to lave this in it need a cite
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have an article even though the list has no link to it. I know that this FAC is really about the Battle of the Alamo article but the list is so closely tied to it that we should make sure it also meets basic quality standards. For the same reason, it makes sense to verify that
1340:. Not sure, though, if it is old enough to be uploaded as PD-US-1923. The author McArdle (gifted the collection in 1927), but the sketch was very probably done much earlier. It has the Long Barracks, the Low Barracks, and the palisades clearly marked. Regards,
915:- was he a General or was he the President of Mexico? Or both? When did he storm the Alamo or mess with the constitution (dates?) it looks like first he was the president and messed with the constitution, and then he was the general who stormed the Alamo...
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lacks what I see as the essence or gist of that image, which is the feeling of low walls in a shallow valley overlooked by rolling hills. That essence isn't described (and isn't really needed) in the adjacent text; could you please add it to the alt
1055:
There was one additional man who may or may not have escaped (that's mentioned briefly in casualties). That's how the sources get to 260. The other fact is cited in the body of the article, but I can cite it in the lead as well.
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so wordy. At 3388 characters it seems to long by simple measure and seeing redundant use of a phrase like "On Santa Ana's orders"" and other overly verbose uses, I can't help but think the lead could be cut down 5-10% fairly
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Wordiness is one of my flaws; thank you for calling me on it. I've trimmed the lead by about 15%. I could possibly trim a little more, but I'm hesitant to do so unless you (or others) feel it is not focused enough as is.
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Thanks again, it looks good now. (For me, writing alt text was a bit like riding a bicycle: there was an initial learning curve that was intimidating, but now that I'm over the hump it usually goes pretty smoothly.)
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others who died during the battle are also omitted. There has been a lot of relatively recent research on who was actually at the Alamo, and I haven't finished reading enough of it to go back to this article.
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Thank you, Modernist. Tony, I don't usually edit on the weekends (beginning Friday afternoon), and it often takes me all day Monday to catch up on my watchlist. I promise I wasn't ignoring you!
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what's in the caption. Could you please reword/remove the following proper names from the alt text: "Long
Barracks"; and "Mexican" and "Texian" in the phrase "dead Mexican and Texian soldiers".
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who is included in the category but not in the list. It's a tricky situation since he apparently left the battle but he might need to be added to the list. The same sort of problem applies to
1420:, I (and others) have created numerous redirects to that list. Many individuals listed on the Find-A-Grave website are Alamo defenders who seem to be otherwise non-notable. That being said
1469:- more research is needed). As far as I know, the template is as comprehensive as it should be - I chose the most well-known individuals to list, not all who have individual articles.
393:"Cannon" is both plural and singular. Modernist pointed out a few instances in the text where "cannons" had been inserted and I've removed those so that the article is consistent.
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I am not familiar with the rules about structures, so I will bow to your wisdom. If you think any (or all) of these images are inappropriately licensed I'll take them out.
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1503:. I also found three slightly problematic cases but since I have no expertise on the subject I'll leave you to decide how to resolve them. One interesting case is
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of three episodes of the miniseries. The miniseries debuted in 1954, though the episode "Davy
Crockett at the Alamo" did air in February 1955 (according to
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for their very helpful comments in the
October peer review. This is a long article, so thank you in advance to all reviewers who make their way through it.
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I suspect is old enough to have its copyright expired (if it ever qualifies for one in the first place), but a confirmation of its date would be handy.
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another source, from the
American Film Institute. According to the AFI and the Disney book, the miniseries itself is simply called "Davy Crockett".
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The confusion is compounded in the second sentence of the lead. Perhaps you should say: Following a twelve-day siege, Mexican troops under
General
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The numbers in the info box don't add up with 2 survivors from a strength of 182–260 we have 182–257 killed ? should the casualties be 180–258 ?
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Thanks for the review - I am still learning how to write alt text and it is much harder than it seems. I've made the updates you requested.
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I have no more information on the first image than what is on the image display page (and I assumed since it was on
Commons it was okay).
389:"Mexican forces had left behind 19 cannon, including an 18-pounder, which Jameson installed along the walls." - cannons should be plural.
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Of is only redundant if the entirety of the Texas republic is considered
Mexican border region. Otherwise it is necessary.--
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My previous edits weren't totally correct, so I made a few adjustments. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
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I changed the article back to your preferred wording, so that it is referencing the miniseries. Thanks for catching that!
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on the article's talk page. Changing to support. Congratulations on writing an informative and enjoyable article.
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Please keep in mind that FAC isn't a vote, and generally rationales are expected to accompany votes. Thanks, –
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302:"In the Mexican border region Texas," seems awkward. Should region be followed by a comma or the word "of"?
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I added President of Mexico to the lead, and thanks for adding the 1835 date. I'm still reading the rest...
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I removed the "of" because it is unnecessary. "Mexican" and "border region" are both used as adjectives.
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Fair enough. My only concern was to make sure that the list was accurate: the rest can wait of course.
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1320:("Provisional support" just means that I haven't read the entire article yet, but like what I've read.)
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I just compared the bluelinks on the list with the contents of the category and added the category to
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I've implemented many of Fowler's suggestions, as noted on the article talk page and his talk page.
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Ok. (By the way, none of the above should be taken as an opposition to FA status for the article)
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previous military service? Do you have a better suggestion on how to make it clearer? Thanks!
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I linked to wiktionary. Spike means drive something in the hole so that the gun can't fire.
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Could we also have a higher resolution map or plan of Alamo? There is one hi-res one at the
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Small note. As part of the FAC, I suggest double-checking the accuracy and completeness of
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I've nominated the first image for deletion; the other two would appear to be fine due to
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are two individuals who don't have their own articles and may justify them (one of those
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You've hit the nail on the head - Texas as a whole was considered a border province.
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It looks so good, I am likely to support, but have not gotten past the LEAD yet.--
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Generally speaking alt text should not contain proper names as they cannot be
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Looks like I edit conflicted and didn't realize it. This has been readded.
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by a non-expert who's looking only at the image, and anyway they're just
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I've uploaded a new version and added the source information. Thank you.
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San Antonio 067.jpg - this urn was built after 1939; I am not sure when.
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Talk:Battle_of_the_Alamo#F.26f.27s_detailed_FAC_comments_on_the_text
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
1098:, on the other hand, may not be. When was the memorial erected?
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who appears in the category but not in the list. As for
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Featured article candidates/Battle of the Alamo/archive1
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Thanks, Stifle. I've replaced the lead image for now.
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967:(modern-day San Antonio, Texas). - without the bold...
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since there has been no response to my tweaks below.--
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diagram based on that (images are not my strength).
1103:I haven't checked alt text, only copyright status.
1565:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
536:Is "his famous knife" explained or linked above?
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1571:No further edits should be made to this page.
1333:, I've just left on the article's talk page.
557:"In July 1936" should be followed by a comma.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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1493:would be a meaningful addition for readers.
591:Did you miss this comment the first time?--
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
1418:Knowledge (XXG):Find-A-Grave famous people
157:All fine. A shining example to all, boss.
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1325:pun intended). It was formally still in
1224:Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier
1485:As for the template, I think a link to
1126:The Alamo Memorial was erected in 1939.
837:File:Fall-of-the-alamo-gentilz 1844.jpg
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181:(not a full image review; sorry):
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813:Alt text is very good (thanks!).
1338:Texas State Legislature Web Site
1221:I just wanted to point out that
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407:I learned something today.--
1444:are accurate and complete.
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1096:File:AlamoMemorial-5478.jpg
959:launched an assault on the
953:Antonio López de Santa Anna
913:Antonio López de Santa Anna
31:featured article nomination
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911:I'm a little confused by
1568:Please do not modify it.
1497:George Washington Cottle
1491:Category:Alamo defenders
1432:Category:Alamo defenders
1090:File:San Antonio 067.JPG
36:Please do not modify it.
1487:List of Alamo defenders
1422:List of Alamo defenders
1414:List of Alamo defenders
957:the president of Mexico
483:Has this been undone.--
183:File:FalloftheAlamo.jpg
1467:William Ward (soldier)
56:23:54, 3 October 2009
1008:, looks good to me...
1084:File:Alamo texas.jpg
965:San Antonio de Béxar
829:is missing alt text.
826:File:Alamo texas.jpg
155:Sources, links, dabs
1439:Battle of the Alamo
1416:. While working on
1313:Provisional support
787:. It's about time!
662:-Issues resolved.--
65:Battle of the Alamo
1374:remaining comments
1372:I've now added my
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1379:Fowler&fowler
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1509:Juan Seguín
1035:Jim Sweeney
728:Why is the
1505:Moses Rose
1159:PD-Pre1978
949:Suggestion
752:WP:CHICAGO
681:WP:CHICAGO
610:WP:CHICAGO
578:WP:CHICAGO
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426:WP:CHICAGO
353:WP:CHICAGO
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1010:Modernist
987:Modernist
969:Modernist
917:Modernist
890:Eubulides
861:Eubulides
852:repeating
791:Vasyatka1
733:easily.--
542:Modernist
450:Modernist
308:Modernist
1546:Pichpich
1532:Karanacs
1517:Pichpich
1471:Karanacs
1446:Pichpich
1394:Karanacs
1360:Karanacs
1294:Zagalejo
1280:Karanacs
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909:Question
875:Karanacs
848:verified
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108:Analysis
75:Karanacs
50:promoted
1427:already
1315:Support
1025:Comment
1006:Support
807:Comment
785:Support
756:WP:LOTM
730:WP:LEAD
726:Comment
696:Support
685:WP:LOTM
660:Support
614:WP:LOTM
582:WP:LOTM
540:Done...
506:WP:LOTM
448:Done...
430:WP:LOTM
357:WP:LOTM
306:Done...
292:WP:LOTM
244:WP:LOTM
179:Comment
100:Toolbox
1489:or to
1384:«Talk»
1348:«Talk»
1256:Here's
1194:Stifle
1166:Stifle
1105:Stifle
266:Oppose
841:text?
16:<
1550:talk
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160:RB88
146:talk
136:and
79:talk
1298:^^^
1264:^^^
1243:^^^
1237:).
963:in
748:bio
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