1678:: I love "He once more becomes a sadistic killer seeking to destroy the world". So buffy-like. "Buffy returns from Heaven" could possibly made stronger (is torn from, is taken out of....) "and Willow becomes addicted to magic. When Willow's girlfriend is killed by a deranged murderer, Willow descends into darkness and begins a rampage." could be "and Willow becomes addicted to magic. When her's girlfriend is killed by a deranged murderer, she descends into darkness and begins a rampage." I'd also put something, even if not specific, about love and sacrifice in the last episode, to sy that they didn't defeat all the evil and vampires in the world with a bunch of 15yo girls and Willow's magic.
1295:: A few more quick thoughts (these are no points of objection, rather questions or suggestions). Wouldn't it be more logical to list "Setting and filming locations" and "Inspirations and metaphors" in the production section, rahter than in Storylines? Also, I would consider putting the awards section either in "Cultural impact" or at least above the DVD releases; that way the prose wouldn't be disrupted by the DVD table. And one last thing, it is probably worth mentioning that the series was among
1702:: "with Riley Finn (Marc Blucas), who is initially an operative in a military ": if you're not detailing the aftermath, you might as well take out the "who is initially" part. Also, if it's a military organisation, their technology probably is too. "For example the Big Bad characters were featured for at least one season (e.g., Glorificus was a character..." That's an example in an example. Take one out.
1600:. Longer sentences make the article flow more easily. In the second part of the article, the tense isn't right. This should all be "the episode would be broken" and "the credited author would write". The whiteboard can stay the same, as it was probably always there. But the past tense in this part makes it look like it was ritual, almost mechanical, and systematic, which doesn't exist in production.
118:
important to the article (which I can't judge because I do not watch the series). If this image is being used sollely as word-illustration or if it is possible for someone to produce a free alternative, the image should go away (note that, even if there's not a free alternative available, but there's nothing that makes one impossible, the fair use claim is invalid per #1 on
364:". IMO they have been released on the world wide web and released to the eyes of the looking public. It doesn't matter whether Fox have copyrighted them, or how Fox intended the images to be used, the point of Fair Use, is that they still be fairly used if appropiate if not being done for profit (and obviously no profit is being made from the use of these 2 promo images).
1497:
I don't usually comment on the absence of commas (often it's a matter of personal style), but there are instances in this article where they're required. For example: "Several years later, Gail Berman, a
Sandollar Productions executive approached Joss Whedon". (After "executive".) And before "which":
479:
Removing any of the citations means that readers cannot easily verify information they are being told, and for all they know it could just be being made up from the heads of
Wikipedians. The footnotes are not a significant obstacle to reading the article (especially since the numbers are of a smaller
147:
I have left the school one until it's decided what to do? We have to take into account however that taking a photo of the actual school (if anyone here even has access), means that it will no longer be the fictional setting
Sunnydale High, and instead be the real-life Torrence High School - which IMO
117:
Humm, I was the one to raise the fair use image's questions and, after a big cleanup, I retracted my opposition. My judgment was based on the assumption that this image was depicting a fictional building (i.e., little chance for someone taking a picture of it and reelase it) and that its presence was
672:
They just don't strike me as an excessive number of cites, maybe it is because I am used to working on law review articles, which are way more citation-heavy than this article. In my experience, each assertion in an article should be followed by at least one citation, which generally means at least
551:
32KB. With the advent of the section editing feature and the availability of upgrades for the affected browsers, this once hard and fast rule has been softened and many articles exist which are over 32KB of total text." Though article size is no longer a binding rule, there remain stylistic reasons
504:
I would make the same argument as you in many cases. There's nothing "wrong" with the article. But the citations alone double the size of the article. Not having citations doesn't make facts unverifiable or wrong, which is why inline citations are not required. I just think you've put in too much,
654:
I believe that the number of citations are appropriate - leaving unsourced assertions is much worse than being overly careful. I am impressed with the careful work that has been done on researching this page, and strongly believe that the citatitons add to the verifiability (?) and worth of this
451:
Compared to the overall body of prose, the citations are excessive (especially as they aren't even an FA requirement). This topic does not merit 91 citations as just a few facts are of such a nature. The prose hits me like the article is barely 32kb, and then I see the citations making it 70kb. I
1005:
My main concern is neutrality, rather than notability. While I'm not familiar with the site, it seems to be a women's (feminist?) website, therefore they might have an agenda to exaggerate the influnce of the series. If the show was as influential as described, I'm sure there are some comparable
634:
If there is a general feeling that 91 cites would be ok in this case, dat's fine. I am concerned about this element of "overciting," which goes on to create a size problem. But its not something which would cause me to oppose this nom. Its a very good article - good work on the image rationales.
321:
to promote a product are ones that come in press kits or similar sources, that are meant to be used by the media. There's no reason to believe these images were intended to be used by anyone other than the copyright holder itself. If you want to use these copyrighted image under fair use, the
966:
I know that normally Google would not be used in a reference, but it is not being used to make a controversial statement, "Buffyverse" is widely used online, if we remove the Google reference, is it any better to simply include some examples of web sites at which it is used?
1534:
No, comparing a current FA with substandard articles that have been let through in the past is utterly irrelevant. The criteria and the standards of writing have risen, thankfully. Who is going to bring this one up to the required "professional" standard of writing?
1670:(italics). Are the vampires in Buffy actually "based on traditional myths, lore, and literary conventions"? Ritterary convetions mayhe, but certainly not traditional ones. They're probably the first vampires I saw that learnt martial arts when digging out. "They
393:" involved in the creation of the DVDs (and therefore the creation of the series) which includes the creation of the fictional characters. The fictional characters are a key component of the DVD contents, without the fictional characters there would be no DVDs. --
526:
You mean the size is an issue? That there is too much data taking into account the wiki-language? I read a while back that it was better to not get too big because some browsers can't deal with it. But that does not seem to be a problem anymore. Check out
618:
On a subject that generates many different opinions and in an article that makes so many statements, I feel this article should have many citations. I do think that some of the citations are too verbiose, but I don't think there are too many of them.
995:
If the AOL sample is represenative of
American internet users, then during a three month period roughly 0.7% of the internet population visits the site. Therefore it probably has a coverage comparable to some published magazines. It also has over
991:
is not hugely famous relative to a site like IMDB.. it does have fairly high traffic. It got 2485 unique hits from a sample of 365422 monitored AOL users in a three month period, therefore appeared on a list of high traffic web
1520:
Certainly valid points, but I think compared to that
English Premier League article featured a few days ago, this shines. It could use polish, but I feel certain recent featured articles have been worse. This isn't an argument
573:"For stylistic purposes, only the main body of prose (excluding links, see also, reference and footnote sections, and lists/tables) should be counted toward an article's total size, since the point is to limit the size of the
469:
The text itself is 36kb, and over 5800 words not including 'Contents' and 'Footnotes' sections, and not including images or any other wiki-language. This means there is an average of one footnote for roughly every 64 words of
911:
That's what I was looking for, thanks. Though one more sentence like "The network decided not to continue the series without Gellar" might still be a good idea, especially if there was such speculation at the time. --
1566:
Please mind that this is not opposing the nom, just advising possible ways to improve the prose. I'm sorry I wasn't there for all the peer reviews, etc., but I'm still pretty new on Wiki. This is actually my first
249:
I have read through the fair use pages a number of times and have not read anywhere that the promo images have to come from a press kit. Surely any promotional images can be clasified as promotional? The tag says:
1327:
Renamed 'Storylines' to 'Setting and storylines' to try and prevent 'Productions' becoming overly large, and also because the 'Setting' subsection greatly aids the understanding of all of the other 'Storyline'
854:
The article uses three columns for "Footnotes and references". While I have no problem reading them using a 1680 resolution, I would imagine they look pretty strange for people with lower resolutions.
1639:: "The sequence, with this music heard over images of a young cast involved in the action and turbulence of adolescence, provides a post-modern twist on the horror genre. (I don't think it bends the
643:
513:
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was not impressed with the series, for its efforts to "deluge their young viewing audiences with adult themes". Some
Christians also worried about the series positive portrayal of witchcraft."
1510:
And there's more. Can you find a word-nerd who's interested in the topic and is unfamiliar with the text? Search for good copy-editors of similar FAs. Collaboration is important, and fun.
832:
Some weak sources, especially for "Impact on television". A lot ("second 'Most
Influential SciFi Shows of the ’90s'", "Without , we wouldn’t have Charmed or Smallville") is referenced via
692:
I don't have time to look over the whole article and determine support or oppose, but I would like to comment on this matter of citing sources. Not only is citing one's sources one of the
191:
The "promotional shots" are not promotional at all. Promotional shots come from presskits. Those, come from foxhome.com website, that scrtricle forbisds the resuse of it's contents. See
452:
suggest you reduce citations as far as possible (though carefully) and bring 70kb as close to 45-50kb as possible. Also, no need to subdivide "Cultural impact" into so many sections.
1547:. Buffy is my favorite series ever (before Lost, 6fu, SITC and the Sopranos), and I never even read the article. I guess I fit the job. I'll have a look and post results around.--
235:
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144:
Moved the free photo of the actors to 'Casting' since the photo features the actors and not the characters. Garion96 are you sure this has
Marsters in it, I can't see him?
131:
OK, I have just attempted yet another reform to improve the article's use of images, there are only six images left (more than 20 images were removed during the old nom)
908:
why she decided not to sign on for an eighth season, " we started to have such a strong year this year, I thought: 'This is how I want to go out, on top, at our best.""
278:
whatever copyright restrictions might be on them they can be fairly used. There are no free alternatives to these images, and I feel they are important to the article.--
1674:
save the world"... If I remember well there's a limited number of apocalipses (or whatever plural that gets). Two? Three? I think it would be better to mention it.
1506:
The article is quite OK. Text might get better, but almost all the possible improvements are a matter of taste, and not of actual litterary compliance to standards.
339:" is the dvd-box, not the characters. So, even if these images were release to be used by the media, its current use on the article would still not be ok with the
489:
Many featured pages may not have as many as one footnote per 64 words, but IMO that does not mean that there is anything wrong with a strongly backed article. --
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623:
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1723:
I will always remember that Virgin State of Mind by K's Choice was performed in the episode
Doppelgängland. A fantastic song fit for my favorite Buffy episode.
1355:
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547:"In the past, because of some now rarely used browsers, technical considerations prompted a strong recommendation that articles be limited to a maximum of
1341:
Moved the 'Awards' section above the DVD section, since removing 'awards' from 'Series information', would leave a whole section with only one subsection.
693:
37:) and I had trouble parsing it. It also seemed to touch on a number of issues that don't appear to be problems anymore. Restarting the nomination.
17:
1314:
IMO 'Inspirations' could fit into 'Productions' or 'Storylines', but the "Metaphors" half of that subsection is more comfortable in 'Storylines'.
98:
987:: I removed the Bella reference in the opening a while back, but feel that it still deserves to be mentioned in the influences section: Although
1094:- Also removed the Bella reference , and also balanced the section out by adding some of the negative publicity about the influence of the show:
808:. 91 citations is fine (even great) for an article with almost 6000 words, and all images have detailed and justified fair use rationales. --
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size than the text), those who have no interest in verifying the information they are reading can just ignore them and read the article.
424:
253:"This is a copyrighted image that has been released by a company or organization to promote their work or product in the media, such as
849:
The first sentence in "Awards and nominations" is "Buffy has received awards and nominations." This is awkward and extremely redundant.
1494:"Buffy is aided by a Watcher who guides and trains her." I have a feeling that your intended meaning requires a comma after "Watcher".
1196:
655:
article. If
Knowledge (XXG) doesn't mind the extra size of citations, there is no reason to make this a less-well-researched article.
168:
The picture I linked to did, I changed it in the article. I don't know if the image is better but at least it has got Marsters in it.
1195:"Whedon and UPN gave some considerations to production of a spin-off series that would not require Gellar, this included a possible
50:: I reiterate my support. All my concerns have been addressed, this article is well-written, well organized, and well referenced.
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195:. I'm readding my opposition until this is dealt with. Screenshots are a more safe image choiche for displaying the characters. --
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The images in question are used as advertising material (making them promotional) - they are being used by 20th Century Fox at
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local nightclub. Also, the phrase about the house makes it seem that they all come to live together, and never one by one.
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I reiterate my opinion on this article. A great work that deserves to be featured. Thanks for letting me know about this. --
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I am willing to police the article (regularly checking and removing any further unneeded/unacceptable fair-use images) --
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That's it for today!! If no one feels like taking this down, I'll probably manage to get to it by the end of the week.--
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which is just a little less bad than putting in too little - a balanced article is what I think this should be. Cheers,
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904:"The seventh and final season was originally broadcast on UPN during 2002-2003. Sarah Michelle Gellar explained to
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I think that minor copyedits are still needed, but they appear to be ongoing and the text is in very good shape.
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Season 5 DVD-set. All fair use images are already copyrighted, but what makes them 'fair use' is the fact that
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1491:"the latest in a line of young women chosen to battle against vampires,...". Who chose her? Remove "against"?
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The article (Broadcasting section) does not discuss how or why the show ended (cancelled, mutual decision?)
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Using two columns would have been fine with me, but if you prefer this, it's alright as well. --
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The existence of the term "Buffyverse" is cited via a Google search, probably not acceptable per
700:. There's absolutely no reason — article size or anything else — to ever remove valid citations.
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238:) are tagged as promotional, but don't come from a source of promotional images (see above). --
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It could be useful to mention somewhere that the "Scoobies" take their name from Scooby-Doo.
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As before, well written and displayed article. I feel the use of images was well justified.
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1498:"The writer wrote a full script which went through a quick rewrite from the show runner."?
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could be easily replaced. You barely can read the name Sunnydale High anyway. (that is if
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75:- I know there was a whole deal of discussion previously about the fair use images, but
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did tihs myself. Gee, editing an article that well referenced is tiring for the eyes.
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784:: Excellent article deserving of acknowledgement by the Knowledge (XXG) community. --
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of prose. Even so, an edit warning is displayed when a page exceeds 32 KB of text
1655:: Is there any other nightclub than the bronze in sunnydale? If not it should be
1750:
1070:- Removed the google reference, and replaced it with the CNN ref you suggested.
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1020:: Think I've solved this but not sure? The references seem fine on my screen.
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437:-- Very notable subject, good writing, many sources, justified use of images.
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The spin-offs are discussed in more detail in the article, lower down, see
1389:, but I still think the fair use claim on the school picture is weak. See
1588:
The four last sentences of the Origins section can be coupled two by two.
673:
one footnote per sentence. These citations seem adequate, not excessive.
1006:
statements in publications like Entertainment Weekly, TV Guide, etc. --
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Used a promo photo featuring the characters in the 'Characters' section.
122:. Unfree images must be unrepeatable (as the logo, for instance). ). --
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943:"This expansion of the series encouraged online fan-use of the term '
1698:
provides ...". Last sentence: 144 episodes, minus one for Xander.)
1488:—1a. There's a lot of good in this article, so why not polish it?
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a requirement of every article according to Knowledge (XXG) policy
1754:
1002:. I can remove it if people think that's what needs to be done?
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been released by a company to promote their product in the media
1623:: "The latest in a line" is better with "one in a line", as in
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1451:- Well written article, has a lot of info. Overall worthy. --
1603:
Last sentence of "Casting" needs a citation, or must leave.
889:: Introduced some new text outlining the end of the series.
362:
released by a company to promote their product in the media
1606:
Colon, not comma, before SMG's citation in "Broadcasting".
988:
180:
Oh I see what you mean, I think that's a good choice. --
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perform (or was announced) at the bronze at some point?
1788:
The 2001-2002 Top 10 Best and Worst Shows on Network TV
1694:
creatures. "Willow is originally a bookish wallflower
34:
1199:, but nothing became of those plans. (Haberman, Lia, "
1117:"Commentators of the entertainment industry including
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I know this sounds subtle, but these images have not "
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http://www.foxhome.com/buffysplash/index_frames.html
315:by the copyright holder to advertise their product
1792:TV Bloodbath: Violence on Prime Time Broadcast TV
556:of an article should not be unreasonably long."
947:' to describe the fictional universe in which
970:Why not use the tenth hit or so, a CNN story
836:which doesn't appear to be a reliable source.
531:. I just read it, and it currently says that:
383:to illustrate the work or product in question
8:
134:Left alone the logo from the title sequence.
1356:TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Shows of All Time
1297:TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Shows of All Time
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
377:Re: Sidenote: The tag does not just say "
33:The old nomination was ridiculously long (
1690:.;) Same, Giles offers advice on how to
1647:: Nothing to do with wording, but didn't
1610:I have to leave, will finish tomorrow. --
1593:Done the same to beginning of Exec Prods.
973:? That would be a much better source. --
389:article the images are illustrating the "
1576:Here are a few things from first look:
99:Image:Buffy The Vampire Slayer cast2.jpg
1733:
204:They are promo images (used to promote
257:or a promotional photo in a press kit.
151:Left alone the screenshot with format.
1525:the nomination, just an observation.
1164:Added some more text to broadcasting:
581:, to act as a reminder that the page
7:
1358:. I added a mention in the opening.
1706:: Chronology is already traced at
822:Oppose. For the following reasons:
24:
1584:: Several years later - how many?
998:, and you can read more about it
1682:: Maybe the Watcher's Council's
1201:A Buffy-less "Buffy"? Have Faith
951:and related stories take place."
873:OK I made edits suggested above.
1798:(2002 & 2003 respectively).
1653:setting & filming locations
137:Used an image from early on in
77:Image:Sunnydale High School.jpg
411:-- Per before, great article.
282:21:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)--
83:still looks (close) the same.
1:
1811:Are Buffy and Sabrina Angels?
1663:: self-contained story which
230:- Two images in the article (
1728:01:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
1718:13:41, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
1631:: ...possible spinoff (...)
1615:17:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
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1552:17:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
1545:Introducing... The word nerd
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585:be starting to get too long"
529:Knowledge (XXG):Article size
514:01:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
494:01:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
461:00:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
398:15:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
332:tag is not the way to do it.
296:09:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
442:23:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
430:22:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
360:Depends how you interpret "
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1710:, but can be found there.
1419:, well-written article. -
1135:Parents Television Council
270:Season 1 DVD-set and the
1596:The same can be done in
1299:, ranking at No. 41. --
1133:as "influential"... The
928:: I changed the text to:
28:Buffy the Vampire Slayer
796:. Very good article. --
148:is not the same thing?
97:Just to let you know,
1708:Buffyverse Chronology
1768:'Buffyverse' Googled
1747:Entertainment Weekly
1240:Undeveloped spinoffs
906:Entertainment Weekly
381:". In full it says "
335:As a sidenote, the "
255:advertising material
208:DVDs), see below --
105:in the group photo.
81:Torrance High School
1815:Jesus-is-savior.com
379:product in question
337:product in question
1441:-- Vision Thing --
1123:Hollywood Reporter
1018:References columns
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1439:. Great article.
1409:The Wookieepedian
1354:Nice find on the
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291:Hear hear ;o) —
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1008:EnemyOfTheState
975:EnemyOfTheState
914:EnemyOfTheState
858:EnemyOfTheState
834:BellaOnline.com
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742:May I help you?
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1629:Broadcasting
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1328:subsections.
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1197:Faith series
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720:Jacobshaven3
715:
639:Rama's arrow
638:
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509:Rama's arrow
508:
456:Rama's arrow
455:
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310:". They are
307:
275:
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267:
254:
227:
205:
193:Terms of Use
138:
72:
47:
32:
1751:26 February
1643:too much).
1637:Opening seq
1129:have cited
989:Bellaonline
774:OwenBlacker
696:, but it's
293:OwenBlacker
1715:SidiLemine
1700:Supporting
1672:frequently
1649:K's choice
1625:Characters
1612:SidiLemine
1569:SidiLemine
1549:SidiLemine
945:Buffyverse
810:Buffyverse
772:per nom —
754:per nom --
422:Lexic Dark
385:". On the
313:being used
240:Abu Badali
197:Abu Badali
124:Abu Badali
1790:" & "
1743:Stake Out
1633:including
1205:E! Online
758:andrewI20
675:Riverbend
657:Riverbend
575:main body
554:main body
549:precisely
317:. Images
101:includes
63:Riverbend
52:Riverbend
1704:Spinoffs
1394:Garion96
1125:and the
702:Ryu Kaze
579:in total
552:why the
449:Comments
319:released
170:Garion96
107:Garion96
85:Garion96
1641:meaning
1598:Writing
1582:Origins
1567:FACR.--
1504:Support
1474:ontribs
1449:Support
1437:Support
1421:Mailer
1417:Support
1405:Support
1387:Support
1373:Paxomen
1293:Comment
1275:Paxomen
1244:Paxomen
1046:Paxomen
818:Support
806:Support
798:Carioca
794:Support
782:Support
770:Support
752:Support
735:Gustave
730:Support
716:Support
603:Paxomen
491:Paxomen
435:Support
409:Support
395:Paxomen
284:Paxomen
280:Paxomen
276:despite
210:Paxomen
182:Paxomen
161:Paxomen
73:Comment
48:Support
39:Raul654
35:old nom
1773:Google
1692:defeat
1661:Format
1486:Object
1455:llycat
1397:(talk)
1068:Google
992:sites.
926:Google
470:prose.
415:thanks
228:Oppose
173:(talk)
120:WP:FUC
110:(talk)
88:(talk)
1725:Xiner
1668:Buffy
1645:Music
1527:Xiner
1429:iablo
1131:Buffy
1092:Bella
985:Bella
949:Buffy
843:WP:RS
621:Xiner
439:Xiner
387:Buffy
344:promo
327:promo
272:Buffy
268:Buffy
206:Buffy
139:Buffy
16:<
1755:2003
1676:Plot
1621:Lead
1537:Tony
1512:Tony
1000:here
391:work
349:tag.
236:this
234:and
232:this
1813:",
1770:",
1745:",
1696:who
1684:job
1657:the
1580:In
1523:for
1465:alk
1371:--
1273:--
1203:",
1044:--
856:--
601:--
583:may
1794:"
1757:).
1753:,
1665:in
1627:.
1471:-
1407:.
1392:.
1242:-
1121:,
738:-
347:}}
341:{{
330:}}
324:{{
1786:"
1749:(
1741:"
1480:)
1477:C
1468:T
1462:(
1458:A
1425:D
820:.
417:/
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