998:
refs 2, 11, 18, 34, 45, 51, 72, 75, 76, and didn't spot issues with close paraphrasing or inaccuracies; I don't have access to the print sources used besides
Meredith and Sampson but don't see any issues with what I can. I would say it would be preferable to split references in some cases to make it clearer which source exactly is covering what part of the statement.
932:—It's kind of weird you give the address the people who are not the subject of the biography moved to, but we have no idea where the house that is relevant was. The new address makes much more sense in the following sentence; alternatively, I don't see why it's really necessary to mention they gave the house to Sam when it's not relevant to the following passages.
838:—this is a bit unclear I think because it's trying to sandwich together two different facts. I assume not all the children died after Evelyn was born and after the father. Might want to split up the details about them having six kids, three of whom died, and then explain the father died when she was a child.
1210:
I've checked and yes, everything that appeared in
Mandela's autobiography was also in other cited sources in this instance. The only issue I encountered was the statement that Mase came from a Xhosa family; it is implied by both Mandela's autobiography and other sources but is not stated explicitly,
997:
Sources look okay. I did a NYPL and Google Books search for the subject and found some more recent scholarship, but it appeared much of them relied on sources presented in this article, so I don't think there's much evidence anything is missing. I did a spot-check to statements attributed to current
1229:
prominent book, it will have received a lot of attention from his biographers (many of whose bios of
Mandela are prominent in their own right), historians, people who knew the couple and other relevant experts. Unless they've raised concerns with the relevant material or the book more broadly, this
198:
Smith argues that the account
Mandela provides in his autobiography overlooks his own adultery at this period by emphasising the idea that his disagreement with his wife was primarily ideological. At present, I've used the Smith quote at the end of this article to help lead onto the next paragraph,
1148:
It's true that the article does cite
Mandela's autobiography 34 times, but in 26 of those instances it is used alongside other, secondary sources. Of those seven instances where Mandela's autobiography is the only citation, four are used to cite direct quotations from Mandela. In the three other
940:
I don't think that the address house which Sam Mase took over is actually known publicly; if it were, it would definitely be worth including it. I agree with your point that the second address, 7372 Orlando West, is better mentioned in the second sentence than the first here, so have moved it.
530:. That being the case, I don't think we can continue to use this image under a URAA tag. I've replaced the tags with a non-free tag attached to a slightly different version of the image, which I have uploaded locally at Knowledge (XXG) (File:Nelson Mandela and Evelyn Mase.jpg).
1181:
In the cases where it's used alongside other sources, are those sources sufficient to verify the claims made? Eg if you removed the bio (which, to be clear, I'm not requesting), would all of that material still be appropriately cited?
305:
I can see your point here, but I'm not sure whether any of the obvious alternatives would be preferable. Something like "Life after
Mandela" would replicate the same problem. Anyone out there have any suggestions on this count?
633:: I can't find it, but I think somewhere in the MoS it's discouraged to speak of women using their first names only, as it can be regarded as demeaning. Could we make this "was attended by Nelson and Winnie Mandela, and..."?
1124:
Hi, looking at the article my first thought was that a lot of it is based on
Mandela's autobiography, a primary source. I'm happy to give a full review, but first I'd like hear your thoughts on this. According to
601:: "this action" is a bit stilted. I don't know the right legal term, but could this be changed to something like "but later withdrew the petition" or "did not go through with the legal proceedings"? Similarly
121:"Moving to Johannesburg to train as a nurse, it was there she met and married Mandela." - bit over-complex (how about something like "She met Mandela after moving to Johannesburg to train as a nurse"?)
98:
This fairly short article is about Nelson
Mandela's first wife. I got the Mandela article through the FAC process several years ago and it would be good if this article, currently a GA, could join it.
1149:
examples, Mandela's autobiography is specifying particular facts that I don't think are contentious. In addition, it might be worth noting that we also use
Mandela's autobiography as a source in the
1295:
Carabinieri seems to have been editing sporadically the past few weeks; given all the responses to those concerns I feel comfortable enough to promote, subject to my own once-over. Cheers,
1033:
As far as I can tell, the only thing we have to sort out is where the lede image was first published. I'm having a bit of trouble with that and wondering if the image should be changed.
117:
This is a very complete looking article, though as a proviso to the following comments I know nothing about this lady, and have only a broad familiarity with South
African history.
640:
This is a tricky one; I've changed it to "Winnie Madikizela-Mandela" but that does look a bit clunky and repetitive given that we already give her full name in the paragraph above.
1258:
Hard to believe a month has gone by since I last stopped by here. There's been some further commentary but not consensus to promote. I can wait another 24 hours or so to see if
906:
To be a nurse, I believe. I shall make this clearer in the text by changing the sentence to the following: "She trained as a nurse in the city's non-European hospital at
605:, in the next sentence, isn't as smooth as it could be; how about "In 1958, Mandela, who was hoping to marry Winnie Mandela, obtained an uncontested divorse from Mase"?
526:
Apologies for the delay on this. I've done some delving, and I've not been able to find any published version of this image prior to David James Smith's 2011 book
298:
I'm not fond of describing Mase's life after she and Mandela's wedding ended as merely her "Later life" - it suggests she was defined by who she was married to.
40:
1047:
If there's a verifiable free image, I would definitely swap it. Otherwise, you can just remove this one and work on finding one without the deadline of FAC.
490:
Okay, so that's a potential problem since the URAA tag partially relies on publication date. What's the earliest publication that can be confirmed?
191:"The biographer David James Smith later argued that Mandela's presentation here was "not quite the whole story"." - what does Smith say was missing?
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Unfortunately not, but if said information ever surfaces (perhaps unlikely) then it would certainly make for a worthwhile addition to the article.
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Unfortunately, that's not clear. The image appears in various biographies of Mandela, but I do not know what was its first appearance.
836:
Her father, a mineworker, died when she was a child, leaving his second wife and their six children, three of whom died in infancy.
128:
My only concern about this change is that it reverses the chronology, which might make things a little less clear for the reader.
1167:
I have removed one of the sentences that relies solely on Mandela's autobiography, which takes the overall total down to six.
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That's everything I can see. The article is in good shape and I expect to support once these minor points are addressed.
1058:
I don't think that there is a verifiable free image so I've added a local version of the same image with a non-free tag.
814:
I've added this to the urgents list to hopefully drum up some more reviews. It also needs a source review, it appears? --
718:
starting two consecutive sentences. How about joining them with a comma and making the second one "and some of them"?
612:
I've gone with "did not go through with the legal proceedings" and have made the latter change that you propose too.
689:: seems easier to say they were cousins than "related". Perhaps "they were cousins, as their mothers were sisters"?
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She trained as a nurse in the city's non-European hospital at Hillbrow, fulfilling the wishes of her late mother.
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1133:, on tertiary sources and primary sources". I'm concerned that the extent of the reliance might be too great.--
725:
I've merged the two sentences with a semi-colon and start the second part with "moreover, some blamed Winnie".
554:
File:Nelson_Mandela,_2000_(5).jpg: as per the Flickr tag this should include more specific copyright tagging.
787:. The fixes look good. I agree Winnie’s full name looks a little clunky but I don’t see a better solution.
792:
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260:
I've changed this to "may have been to avoid damaging his heroic reputation." Do you think that that works?
199:
which discusses the adultery. I you think it is just causing confusion, however, then it could be removed.
324:
I think a heading like that would be much better - Something like "post-divorce" is another possibility.
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are satisfied the criteria are met but after that we'll have to call it a day for this one. Cheers,
868:
I don't think you need the "in Johannesburg" bit since the previous paragraph ended explaining that.
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1129:: "Knowledge (XXG) articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a
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It'd be a shame to lose the only image of the article subject, but we need publishing info for
898:
What was her mother's wish? That she be a nurse, or that she work at the non-European hospital?
1281:
We now have three statements in support of promotion; let's just see what Carabinieri thinks.
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364:" Mase travelled there to meet with him, but Mandela refused to see her" - do we know why?
253:"may have been so as not to damage the heroic reputation he had at this time" - bit complex
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has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see
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should be an OK source if used carefully, which seems to have been the case here.
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I've now split this up into multiple sentences along the lines you recommend.
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I have removed this image from the template at the bottom of the article.
907:
465:
File:Mandela_e_Evelyn_1944.jpg: when and where was this first published?
217:
I'd suggest removing if it's discussed elsewhere, as this is confusing.
631:
was attended by Mandela, Winnie, and Mandela's third wife, Graça Machel
594:
I've made some copyedits; please revert anything you don't agree with.
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
687:
they were also related, with their respective mothers being sisters
403:! I appreciate you taking the time to read through the article.
866:
In 1939, Evelyn joined her brother and Sisulu in Johannesburg.
930:
When the Sisulus moved to a larger house at 7372 Orlando West
994:
to verify it is in fact PD, and right now it's missing that.
765:
Many thanks for taking the time to offer these comments,
599:
She initially filed for divorce, but withdrew this action
1153:
article, which has been FA-rated for several years now.
668:
I've changed this to "former schoolmate Walter Sisulu".
65:
696:
That's a definite improvement. I've made the change.
1211:so I have removed this statement from the article.
1072:The fair use rationale could use some elaboration.
876:A fair point. I've removed "in Johannesburg" here.
1355:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates
1083:I've expanded on it, adding additional detail.
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
382:Unfortunately the source does not state this.
1361:No further edits should be made to this page.
1334:template in place on the talk page until the
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
146:Do we know when Mase and Mandela first met?
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
1225:Given that Mandela's autobiography is a
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1196:I believe so. Let me double check.
24:
714:It would be nice to avoid having
659:a man with whom he went to school
1018:, where are we at now? Cheers,
970:Many thanks for your comments,
399:Many thanks for your thoughts,
992:File:Mandela e Evelyn 1944.jpg
661:: how about just "schoolmate"?
420:My comments are now addressed
1:
1097:Rationale looks much better.
716:some members of Mase's family
342:I'll go with "post-divorce".
1329:featured article candidates
31:featured article nomination
1378:
1348:23:25, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
1305:23:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
1291:12:54, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
1276:11:49, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
1240:22:52, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
1221:10:22, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
1206:07:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
1192:21:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
1104:18:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
1100:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
1093:07:52, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
1075:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
1050:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
1028:11:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
1005:17:14, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
1001:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
984:11:42, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
965:19:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
961:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
951:11:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
920:11:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
886:11:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
856:11:40, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
824:14:17, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
590:Comments by Mike Christie
518:19:07, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
1358:Please do not modify it.
1177:09:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
1163:09:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
1143:15:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
1079:11:49, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
1068:09:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
1054:19:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
1043:08:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
805:13:35, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
779:12:20, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
760:21:58, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
735:12:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
706:12:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
678:12:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
650:12:16, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
622:12:20, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
582:12:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
564:21:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
540:09:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
500:20:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
482:08:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
457:08:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
430:08:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
413:10:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
392:10:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
374:01:41, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
352:08:35, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
334:07:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
316:10:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
288:07:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
270:10:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
243:08:42, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
227:07:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
209:10:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
181:07:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
163:10:45, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
138:10:43, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
108:11:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
91:11:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
36:Please do not modify it.
440:Suggest adding alt text
829:Support by David Fuchs
603:did not contest this
278:I've tweaked this
233:I've removed it.
113:Support by Nick-D
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59:
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44:
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37:
32:
27:
26:
19:
1357:
1354:
1314:Closing note
1313:
1257:
1226:
1130:
1123:
1009:
957:
928:
894:
864:
834:
813:
784:
783:
741:
593:
527:
435:Image review
434:
433:
417:
416:
398:
116:
97:
80:
49:
47:
35:
28:
1264:Carabinieri
1135:Carabinieri
1120:Carabinieri
73:Evelyn Mase
1184:Nikkimaria
810:Coord note
556:Nikkimaria
510:Nikkimaria
492:Nikkimaria
1322:WP:FAC/ar
1318:candidate
1340:Ian Rose
1316:: This
1297:Ian Rose
1268:Ian Rose
1020:Ian Rose
908:Hillbrow
816:Ealdgyth
797:contribs
752:contribs
54:Ian Rose
50:promoted
801:library
785:Support
756:library
447:Added.
418:Support
1232:Nick-D
508:Ping.
422:Nick-D
401:Nick-D
366:Nick-D
326:Nick-D
280:Nick-D
219:Nick-D
173:Nick-D
58:FACBot
1260:David
1127:WP:OR
1012:David
972:David
16:<
1344:talk
1301:talk
1287:talk
1272:talk
1262:and
1236:talk
1227:very
1217:talk
1202:talk
1188:talk
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1159:talk
1139:talk
1089:talk
1064:talk
1039:talk
1024:talk
980:talk
947:talk
916:talk
882:talk
852:talk
820:talk
793:talk
775:talk
767:Mike
748:talk
731:talk
702:talk
674:talk
646:talk
618:talk
578:talk
560:talk
536:talk
514:talk
496:talk
478:talk
453:talk
426:talk
409:talk
388:talk
370:talk
348:talk
330:talk
312:talk
284:talk
266:talk
239:talk
223:talk
205:talk
177:talk
159:talk
134:talk
104:talk
87:talk
62:talk
56:via
1336:bot
1010:Hi
799:-
754:-
52:by
1346:)
1332:}}
1326:{{
1303:)
1289:)
1274:)
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1141:)
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1026:)
1014:,
982:)
974:!
958:--
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795:-
777:)
769:!
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