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:Featured article candidates/Maximian - Knowledge

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1333:
Nope, not entirely. I'm not happy with: (1) the choppiness of some sections; (2) the copy habit of telling people what you're going to say before you say it and (3) lack of clarity in places. Rather than doing a copy-edit by proxy (long lists of things to fix, which are then duly fixed), I'll give it
262:"Details regarding his parentage are limited by the vagueness of the sources. The only precise statement made in ancient sources is that Maximian's parents were shopkeepers near Sirmium." How about ""The sources are vague about Maximian's parents, saying only that they were shopkeepers near Sirmium."? 1291:
Unfortunately, I only have access to a rather limited inter-library loan service and don't have access to any journals, electronic or otherwise. That said, if you have access to anything that could improve the article, and would be willing to e-mail it to me, I would gladly work its content into the
405:
It's been corrected to "A rustic, Maximian was a man of great energy, firm aggressive character, and with a temperament that made him unlikely to rebel." by Factotem. I was aiming for a contrast between advantageous factors and disadvantageous factors, but it turned out to make the false implication
1260:
Oh, and to address the issues of the sources/accuracy, I didn't see anything glaringly wrong. While I'm not a trained ancient historian, the time frame is one of my interests, so I am at least familiar with the main subject matter. It might be a bit light on current journals, but it's very NPOV and
1179:
Maximian appointed section, first paragraph, the two sentences starting with "This suggestion has not won much support..." They might be combined to make the flow better, but I'm not sure what point the second sentence is trying to make. The however implies that there is some connection between the
775:
Fair enough. Just a couple of final comments then - in the Leisure and retirement section, the sentence "Had the date of the abdication been set at the meeting as 305, it would have given Maximian one more moment of glory as officiator over the Secular Games scheduled for 304." jars with "On May 1,
1008:
I think your correction seems to imply that his "character" was "unlikely to rebel", rather than that he his "character" made him "unlikely to rebel". I've split the sentence and changed it to "Maximian was a man of great energy and firm aggressive character. His temperament made him unlikely to
472:
I've fixed the issues you've raised. I'm afraid I don't know any copy-editors. The LOCE isn't much help either. Once, I left a petition for a copy-edit for, what, eight months before they eventually made it disappear during a bureaucratic re-shuffling. I'm entirely willing to make any necessary
1398:"Maximian's swift appointment by Diocletian as Caesar is taken by the writer Stephen Williams and historian Timothy Barnes to mean that the two men were longterm allies, that their respective roles were pre-agreed and that Maximian had probably supported Diocletian during his campaign against 1052:
The last sentence is very wordy, consider cutting some of the verbiage down. Perhaps "Lactantius records charges that Maxiamian defiled senator's daughters and that while traveling he took young virgins to satisfy his unending lust, but Lactantius' hostility towards pagans discredits his
734:
You're welcome. I've done all I can do now, and there is of course no guarantee that my CE skills are up to scratch. In terms of content, the only question I have now is whether the sources permit the addition of a legacy section, of the sort that appears in the article on Diocletian.
776:
305, Diocletian and Maximian retired together..." that starts the next para. Also in the final para., and following on from the previous comments about the succession in the talk page, Licinius still pops up ("Although he led the ceremony that proclaimed Licinius Caesar..."). --
1180:
two statements, but I'm not seeing it. It may be because there is not any evidence given for why it is clear that Diocletian expected Maximian to act with independence. Might be best to just cut the second sentence, as the following sentence says much the same thing.
1128:
Carausius section, second paragraph, second sentence is awkward, consider rewording perhaps "He would confront raiders only after their bases were plundered, with the sums recovered never being accounted for." although I'm not really happy with that phrasing
1386:
My remaining concern is that there are some places where the passive voice obfuscates the sources of certain beliefs about Maximian. Some examples (my print out is from before Roger and I copy edited things, so some of these may have been changed):
700:
I've taken it up to and including the section on Campaigns in 286 and 287, but this section is confusing - I've dropped a note on the article talk page about it. That's all I have time for now - I'll try and come back to it again tomorrow.
309:
Still wordy. How about "The ancient sources are vague about Maximian's parents and the only precise statement is that they were shopkeepers near Sirmium. Otherwise, there are only vague allusions to Illyricum as his patria..."?
306:
The sources are vague about Maximian's parentage. The only precise statement made in ancient sources is that Maximian's parents were shopkeepers near Sirmium. Otherwise, there are only vague allusions to Illyricum as his
1334:
a copy edit myself starting either this afternoon/evening or tomorrow morning. this'll probably take 24 hours or so to complete. I'm light on sources for this period though so it will style only. Fair enough? --
1205:
Joint campaign section, the fourth sentence, the phrase "Maximian made a southern entry into Germany" sounds odd and is a strange way to describe an invasion. Perhaps "Maximian invaded Germany from the
495:. Things to look for are wordiness and brevity (replace some of the countless "approximately"s with "about", "predominantly" with "mostly", hack out empty words). Here are a few more examples: 904:
for now, mainly due to wordiness and some places where I'm unsure of the meaning. I'll be happy to switch to support when these have been addressed, and some more copyediting has been done.
1027:
Same section, next sentence, perhaps "These characteristics would appeal to Dioceletian as ..." the last part of this sentence is awkward too, but can't think of a suggestion to reword it.
1548:
I haven't finished copy-editing it yet. It'll take a day or two more, I think. I'm posing questions myself as I go so it's not just a matter of shunting words around unfortunately :) --
334:
It's now: "Little is known about Maximian's parentage, and the only precise statement made in ancient sources is that his parents were shopkeepers near Sirmium.", thanks to Factotem.
1001:
Personality section, first sentence. Something seems off here, perhaps reword to "Maximian was a man of great energy, with a firm aggressive character that was unlikely to rebel."?
165:"Through his daughters Fausta and Flavia, Maximian was grandfather or great-grandfather to every reigning emperor from 337 to 363." Is this important? It's less than thirty years. 1103:
Same section, first paragraph. The tone of this paragraph is a bit over the top ("Conflict boiled", "Diocletian needed a lieutenant" etc.) Consider rewording some of this.
381:
Perhaps though I fail to see the logical connection between a country background and lack of energy, firmness and aggression. Rustics might think you're stereotyping :) --
1498:
is doing the alleging, surmising, postulating, suggesting, etc. If these sentences are recast in the active voice so as to attribute their sources, I'll happily support.
926:
Early career section, the introduction of the fact that Maximian was six years younger than Diocletian is jarring in this context. I'd consider putting it in a footnote.
110:
Too many copy issues at the moment, I'm afraid. It needs a close critical copy-edit by someone new to the text, both for style and content. Here are a few examples:
1154:
Same section and paragraph. Did Carausius eliminate the loyalists in the legions that defected or did he eliminate all the loyalists in Britain? Context is unclear.
1247:
I've hidden the above issues as they are resolved. I'd still like to see another copyedit, so leaving the oppose until Roger (who does a good job) has time.
428:"His ambitions were limited to the sphere of military action, and was unlikely to conflict with Diocletian in matters of politics." Concordance: "was" : --> 473:
changes. I'll try my best to provide a "close critical copy-edit", and I'll imagine myself as "someone new to the text". Beyond that, I have no control.
40: 1034:
I've changed it to "These characteristics made Maximian an appealing candidate for imperial office." Hoping that that doesn't introduce further issues.
1384:: I really like this. I've gone ahead and copy edited the article, although I think it was already in pretty good shape after Roger went through it. 749:
Ah, no. I don't think there's much material. Where historians discuss the long-term changes made in this period, they attribute them to Diocletian.
66:
I've been working on this article for some time now, and I think that it's now more or less up to Featured Article standard. Comments welcome.
1482:"Maximian was more aggressive in his relationship with the Senate than Constantius, and is alleged to have terrorized the istitution . . . ." 30: 17: 356:"Although a rustic, Maximian was a man of great energy and firm, aggressive character." Rather pejorative? Not all rustics are bumpkins :) 1312:
I've addressed all your concerns but the general copy-edit. Roger Davies has said he'll give the article a copy-edit sometime today.
862:
All other sources look good, and the links check out with the link checking tool. I'll try to get back later and do a fuller review.
1462:"Diocletian could not have been present at Maximian's appointment, causing some to suggest that Maximian usurped the title . . . . " 1472:"It has been surmised that the ceremonies were arranged to demonstrate Diocletian's continuing support for his faltering colleage." 1136:
How about "He would confront raiders only after their plundering had finished, and the wealth recovered was never accounted for"?
1394:"Some historians speculate that Maximian and Diocletian arranged their eventual roles before Diocletian's rise to power . . . ." 1452:"The emperors Probus and Carinus had begun work on fortifications along the so-called Saxon Shore . . . ." (So-called by whom) 1442:"It has been suggested that the rebels were not merely peasants, but combatants for Gallic political autonomy . . . ." 951:
Same section, consider "appointing him Caesar" instead of "granting him the Caesarship" it flows better to my mind.
624:
Lol! Well, at breakfast time, with the dog bouncing about, one Roman emperor looks very much like another :))) --
1408:"It has been postulated that she was born from an earlier marriage between Eutropia and Afranius Hannibalianus." 1533:. I'd like to see Roger given enough time to finish his copy edit, of course, but I'm happy with the article. 1583: 1563: 1542: 1522: 1507: 1371: 1321: 1301: 1284: 1269: 1255: 1240: 1222: 1196: 1170: 1145: 1119: 1094: 1069: 1043: 1018: 992: 967: 942: 919: 886: 870: 833: 799: 785: 758: 744: 725: 710: 695: 675: 639: 619: 605: 583: 550: 522: 482: 467: 445: 415: 396: 372: 343: 325: 296: 282: 249: 231: 206: 181: 156: 131: 104: 75: 1518: 1317: 1297: 1218: 1192: 1166: 1141: 1115: 1090: 1065: 1039: 1014: 988: 963: 938: 882: 795: 754: 721: 615: 579: 546: 518: 478: 441: 411: 368: 339: 292: 278: 245: 202: 177: 152: 127: 71: 532:
The compilers; policy of codification was radical in the decentralized traditions of Roman jurisprudence.
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From levels of around 390,000 in 285 the army was expanded to a new total of approximately 581,000.
1232:
I did some copyediting, mainly to cut down wordiness, but I'm sure there are more spots I missed.
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sound in the scholarship it is ussing, at least as far as I can tell. No fringe theories, etc.
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It looks like tomorrow morning. I have a fair number of other commitments at the moment :) --
1538: 1503: 906:
Switching to support, due to the wonderful copyedit by Roger and Dulcem. Wonderful article!
560:
Proconsuls, for example, were often both courts of first instance and recipients of appeals
491:
I know. It's a nightmare trying to find a copy-editor,. You might try an urgent request at
541:
Now: "The compilers' codifications were radical in the decentralized Roman legal system."
273:
statement; other things are said as well, as you can see further on in the paragraph.
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All issues I had have been addressed with comendable speed. Changed to support. --
1534: 1499: 215:"making him somewhat approximately six years younger than Diocletian" : --> 1418:"Some suggest that less flattering reasons were also influential . . . . " 1110:
I've toned it down, but I might have introduced some 1(a) glitches again.
976:
Same section, last sentence, Some speculate... historians? Or just gossip?
686:
I've made a start on tidying up some of the prose. Feel free to revert. --
506:"The army expanded to about 581,000 from its strength in 285 of 390,000." 57: 610:
You're reading the wrong article, Roger.;) I'll make those corrections.
1399: 39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
190:"Making him somewhat younger than Diocletian." How much younger? 563:"Proconsuls, for example, were often judges of first instance 1276:
Switched to support, after the copyedit by Dulcem and Roger.
197:
Depends on how you date it. I've put in an approximate date.
1078:
Appointment to Caesar section ... try Appointment as Caesar?
240:
It's now "and was about six years younger than Diocletian."
140:
Two "at XXX's behest" and too many "imperials" in the intro.
1568:
I've finished it now. (Please check it for my typos :) --
1402:(r. 283–285) but there is no direct evidence for this." 567:
appeal." (A proconsul is not a court, plus redundancy.)
216:"and was about six years younger than Diocletian"? -- 406:that rustics lack in energy. (Just the opposite!) 1591:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. 856:See also sections usually go before the footnotes 1328:For the avoidance of doubt, here's what I said 43:. No further edits should be made to this page. 1597:No further edits should be made to this page. 287:I've tweaked the wording here. Is it better? 269:That would be false: that is merely the only 29:The following is an archived discussion of a 8: 41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates 660:Remarkably well-cited and referenced. -- 1494:In all of these cases, I want to know 18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates 7: 363:Is it? Is this a word choice issue? 877:I've moved the "See also" section. 24: 493:WP:MHL#Requests for copy-editing 1: 790:I've made the final fixes. 31:featured article nomination 1614: 1584:19:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1564:07:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1543:09:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1523:07:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1508:06:58, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1372:23:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1349:09:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1322:19:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1302:01:13, 7 April 2008 (UTC) 1285:19:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 1270:23:36, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1256:23:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1241:14:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1223:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1197:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1171:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1146:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1120:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1095:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1070:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1060:I've taken your wording. 1044:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 1019:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 993:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 968:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 943:19:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 920:23:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 887:18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 871:15:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 834:09:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 800:09:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 786:09:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 759:23:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 745:19:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 726:18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 711:16:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 696:14:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 676:19:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 640:18:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 620:18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 606:07:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 584:18:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 551:18:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 523:18:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 483:07:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 468:06:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 446:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 416:18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 397:07:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 373:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 344:18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 326:07:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 297:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 283:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 250:23:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 232:07:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 207:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 182:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 157:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 132:07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 105:19:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC) 76:06:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 1594:Please do not modify it. 1456:Dropped the "so-called". 36:Please do not modify it. 1351: 983:Historians. So noted. 114:Typo: stablished : --> 52:01:35, 10 April 2008. 1331: 1161:His army. So noted. 1513:Attributions made. 1213:Took your wording. 716:Thank you so much! 89:Resolved issues -- 1579: 1575: 1559: 1555: 1367: 1363: 1345: 1341: 933:I've dropped it. 911:Issues resolved, 671: 667: 635: 631: 601: 597: 463: 459: 392: 388: 321: 317: 227: 223: 100: 96: 1605: 1596: 1581: 1577: 1573: 1561: 1557: 1553: 1369: 1365: 1361: 1347: 1343: 1339: 673: 669: 665: 637: 633: 629: 603: 599: 595: 465: 461: 457: 394: 390: 386: 323: 319: 315: 229: 225: 221: 102: 98: 94: 64:Self-nomination. 48:The article was 38: 1613: 1612: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1592: 1570: 1550: 1358: 1336: 1230: 1229: 922: 662: 655: 654: 626: 592: 454: 383: 312: 218: 107: 91: 61: 34: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1611: 1609: 1600: 1599: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1459: 1458: 1457: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1430:filius Augusti 1425: 1424: 1423: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1405: 1404: 1403: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1354: 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Index

Knowledge:Featured article candidates
featured article nomination
Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
Maximian
Geuiwogbil
Talk
06:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
ROGER DAVIES
19:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
ROGER DAVIES
07:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
23:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil
Talk
07:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Geuiwogbil

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