1209:: I'm inclined to promote this, but wondered if there was any response to either Ruth's or Ian's compromise suggestions? Given that this is a MoS issue (and I don't think we want any more disputes between FA and MoS if we can avoid it!) I just want to exhaust every avenue before we invoke IAR (which is what we would effectively be doing here, although I have no problem if that is the consensus). I also notice that there is no alt text for the images, and while it is not an outright requirement, I am very much of the view that FAs should follow best practice.
106:. The previous two were both in York; this one is a long way further south and slightly further east. Sadly neglected in the early 21st century, it has since been restored to its full glory. Although not a large memorial dominating its surroundings, it's nonetheless quite an impressive one in my opinion. It was unveiled by a disabled ex-serviceman; that the committee had no trouble finding a wounded soldier for the duty speaks to the profound effect the First World War had on Norwich, which of course is a microcosm of Britain as whole.
928:, I still think that "on the Stone itself" should be lower case - the "Stone of Remembrance" is a proper noun, but "the stone" isn't - for comparison, one would say "in Norwich Castle", but "in the castle". MOS:INSTITUTIONS, part of WP:Capital, would seem to prefer "the guildhall"/"the city hall" or "the Norwich Guildhall"/"the Norwich City Hall"... I don't have a strong opinion on the inscription issue, btw.
1402:: As I mentioned above, I am going to promote this, although I am aware it is probably a technical breach of MoS. However, other than the one oppose, reviewers do not seem too concerned so I think this is justified. For what it's worth, I don't have any firm opinion either way. Any further discussion could take place on the talk page.
879:
allcaps on the memorial itself, and they're quoted in allcaps in every single one of the sources (some inline like I've done, some as a blockquote). Personally I think it would be silly to make
Knowledge the sole exception, and sticking to the sources is a higher priority—the MoS is, after all, supposed to be a
1132:
we commented above. A lot of us did. He's using the source, and this is what the source says. He left no instructions on what kinds of caps he opposes--the caps for the inscription, or the caps for the names of buildings. The caps guideline says "common sense and occasional exceptions may apply."
277:
I think this is worthwhile as cenotaph isn't necessarily a widely understood term and
Norwich's doesn't resemble Lutyens' other cenotaphs (which tend to be raised high on pylons, and many people think the pylon itself is the cenotaph). It's actually the reason I had the link there rather than on the
1149:
Recusing from coord duties to comment on this point (I may also be able to go through the whole article this weekend), following MOS is indeed part of the FAC criteria, but MOS is, as Harry and Ruth suggest, a guideline that may occasionally be honoured in the breach. In this case I would not be
878:
Market Place is indeed the street name. RBL cap the "t" but I've de-capped it anyway, likewise memorial garden. City Hall is a proper noun (it's the name of the building), as are Stone of
Remembrance and Guildhall. But I think John's issue is with the inscriptions. Still, the inscriptions are in
1014:
I respect your oppose but obviously I disagree with it. The MoS is guidance, not scripture, as it says itself. It would be impossible to write a style guide for every set of circumstances and every article. In this case I'm following the style used by the sources and I
1169:-- lightly copyedited now; not an overly detailed article but I didn't notice any obvious omissions; structure seems logical; happy to take Nikki's image review and Ealdgyth's source review as read; my only suggestion is the one above re. inscriptions. Cheers,
780:
Withers was selected at random from among the city's ex-servicemen who were natives of
Norwich, had enlisted prior to the implementation of conscription in 1916, had served overseas, and had been permanently disabled as a result of their
949:
I think if a building is named the
Guildhall, it should be in cap. If it's called Fort Knox, our Guildhall, that would be incorrect. Go to the guildhall building, and turn left, not caps. Go to the Guildhall and turn left. yes.
1150:
opposing over the allcaps inscriptions, but I would offer a suggestion/compromise, namely to make the caps small (and without quote marks), which has been employed for inscriptions on some FA-level coin articles. Cheers,
1242:: Sorry to be late to the party, I was just browsing. There are a couple of references in the article to Norwich being a town which is incorrect. Norwich is a city. I think before promotion this should be corrected.
962:
I don't have strong feelings about Stone, so I've decapped it. I believe a strict reading of the MoS would disallow the use of allcaps for the inscription, but the MoS is a guide (the tag at the top says
783:
I think I understand it. He was selected from a pool of the exservicemen who had all been natives had enlisted prior to conscription, and had...yadayada....? I had to read it several times though.
1000:
Just to clarify, my oppose still stands. I tried to see how this could be a valid exception to the MoS but it just isn't. MoS says not to do the ALLCAPS thing and MoS compliance is a FA criterion. --
1137:, and all the sources referring to the inscriptions use all caps. I'm wondering if we could put the inscription in all caps in a box and refer to it in the text? Would that be a work around?
1088:
1051:; I reviewed at A Class and was impressed by the piece then. A further reading, with the FA criteria in mind, confirms that for me this fulfils the FA requirements. All the best,
1272:"City" and "town" are often used interchangeably, but I know it's a point of pride for many places so I've changed the couple of instances of Norwich being referred to as a town.
902:
To be pedantic Market Place is not the street name, it is the name of the square in which the market is located. It is a proper noun though, as is
Guildhall, City Hall etc
193:
I know
Norwich quite well, and I'm pleased to see this article here. I made a very minor edit to insert what appeared to be a missing word, otherwise all looks good
40:
491:
I can add "the city" if you think it would help, but I wanted to keep the county town link to make clear the relationship between
Norfolk and Norwich.
449:- I have a real problem with the way 'initially' is used on Knowledge, though more on music articles than in this instance. 'Originally', or 'at first'
925:
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Have only ready half the article so far, but cenotaphs are in my area of interest, if you have more. Flambeaux is my new favourite word.
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967:) and I believe this is a small and reasonable exception where following the sources is preferable to following the letter of the MoS.
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Nice work on the caps, and I take your point on the inscriptions. What did you think about my other point on the currency conversion?
1116:
has opposed on an MoS issue, I'd like to hear a few thoughts from other reviewers on this, if we can't find any other way around it.
1079:
136:
104:
for those following along at home, this number six, and about halfway through the
English memorials with FA potential
305:
Never heard of a flambeaux before, link pls. Also, it is how it sounds, no need to say "at either end can burn gas
108:
This is a relatively short but comprehensive article, and as ever, all feedback is gratefully received. Thank you,
1299:
Tks Harry; actually this is the format I was thinking of, as used for inscriptions in the coin FAs I referred to:
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Not sure what else we can say about this. As the editor says, the inscriptions themselves are in all caps,
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Approximately 33,000 men served overseas with the
Norfolks, though many more joined other regiments
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Sorry to have kept you hanging around; is there anything else we need before wrapping this up?
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Well, Whitehall's the street and the Cenotaph is in the middle of it so "on" seems appropriate.
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Sorry, I don't follow. You're suggesting "the city of Norwhich, the..."? Or something else?
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has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see
946:
do say not to capitalize it. And since the opposer left no instructions, what can we do?
864:
NB "Market Place" is presumably the proper street name, as opposed to "a market place".
646:
It's just called "Whitehall" (I know, that's Londoners for you!); Does linking it help?
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at the same time all were granted listed building status or had their listing renewed
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back. Hope ou don't mind. Other than that I'm happy with your edits. Thanks again,
816:
moscap violations? are you referring to the caps of the on the inscription? ....?
604:- In rather than on? maybe in Whitehall, London, though yes that's an Americanism.
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first mention. I'm open to better ways of doing this if you can think of any.
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Technically, it's a flambeau (flambeaux is plural); but WP is crap on this.
150:
707:
from me. This a very fine, worthy and interesting article. Well done Harry.
632:
Ok. But can you say Whitehall street or road, as I assumed it was an area.
325:
942:
Re inscription, if it is similar to proclamations, the instructions
409:! Happy to talk some more about cenotaphs and flambeaux if you want.
270:- remove the cenotaph clarifier - mentioned and linked already above
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
965:
best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply
845:* "The Royal British Legion " should be "the Royal British Legion";
567:
Thousands of war memorials were built across Britain after the war.
342:
Can you rephrase so the two years are not placed so close together.
329:
1303:. It uses the "small" parameter rather than "smallcaps". Cheers,
387:
I have spot checked 4 refs; (9, 17, 18, 21). All ok, no issues.
1185:
Noting that I've seen this and I'll be back later in the week.
581:
In the aftermath of the war and its unprecedented casualties
102:
The next in my series on war memorials by Sir Edwin Lutyens
154:
65:
852:* " between the new City Hall and the castle." : -->
553:. Norfolk men presumably, rather than men in general
1329:okay, so are we all in agreement now? :) cheers,
574:
Sorry, not sure what you're suggesting here either.
703:I'm running out of things to say, a good sign, so
1458:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1256:Apologies for the delay in getting back to this.
1223:Just checking in on how far we've got with this?
135:. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting.
1264:I can't see a problem with small caps, so done.
883:and no guide can cover every possible scenario.
474:Say "the city (or town) of Norwich" rather than
384:These are trivial points you are free to ignore.
253:- comma or punctuation of some sort needed (imo)
229:I'll support this shortly. Few small things....
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1464:No further edits should be made to this page.
1437:template in place on the talk page until the
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
848:* " Its place in the Memorial garden " : -->
236:Lead: Would prefer abandoned to "abortive".
41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
1017:don't think the article would be improved
926:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Capital letters
842:I'm going to guess that the issues are
309:" - works from burning gas or sumfink.
1091:shows no sign of copyright violation.
849:" Its place in the memorial garden ";
340:and the City Hall in 1938. In 2004...
328:(s.) is a dab. The best we've got is
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
7:
1019:by following the letter of the MoS.
1362:
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729:Thanks very much! If cenotaphs are
656:
602:the Cenotaph on Whitehall in London
501:
419:
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92:
530:Norwich is not a town, but a city
24:
1096:Otherwise everything looks good.
139:are my edits. Well done. - Dank (
800:the total cost was £2,700 (1927)
856:* "(on the Stone itself)" : -->
251:Norwich's war dead and by 1926
1135:as if they were a proclamation
1:
332:, which I linked in the body.
243:Makes no odds to me, so done.
176:Sure, not a problem. - Dank (
828:I don't get it either. Wot.
798:per MOSCAP violations. Also
447:which was initially deployed
215:are appropriately licensed.
1432:featured article candidates
689:These are very picky, yes.
359:- I don't understand this.
31:featured article nomination
1481:
1061:07:20, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
996:14:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
982:18:01, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
958:15:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
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898:12:48, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
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838:05:33, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
824:02:08, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
812:16:55, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
791:16:40, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
778:question on this sentence
756:00:08, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
721:23:51, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
699:23:31, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
675:00:50, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
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145:01:14, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
123:00:44, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
97:00:44, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
1375:I'm happy... :-) Cheers,
1363:Penny for your thoughts?
1291:Penny for your thoughts?
1196:Penny for your thoughts?
1030:Penny for your thoughts?
978:Penny for your thoughts?
894:Penny for your thoughts?
752:Penny for your thoughts?
665:A link perfectly solves.
657:Penny for your thoughts?
502:Penny for your thoughts?
420:Penny for your thoughts?
168:Penny for your thoughts?
119:Penny for your thoughts?
93:Penny for your thoughts?
1461:Please do not modify it.
1451:18:49, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
1412:18:48, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
1385:12:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
1367:21:31, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
1337:18:18, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
1313:23:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
1295:18:56, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
1252:14:57, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
1233:18:17, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
1219:21:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
1200:22:07, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
1179:03:24, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
1160:23:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
1145:21:02, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
1126:20:38, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
912:14:44, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
860:* "the Guildhall " : -->
775:almost ready to support.
583:is fine on 2nd reading.
540:14:44, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
476:Norwich, the county town
460:Norwich, the county town
268:an empty tomb (cenotaph)
36:Please do not modify it.
1105:13:57, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
1034:15:55, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
1010:06:32, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
320:(pl.) is a redirect to
322:New Orleans Mardi Gras
285:Fine with either or.
64:) 18:49, 31 May 2017
73:Norwich War Memorial
1110:Coordinator comment
733:thing, you'll like
133:standard disclaimer
1085:Sources look good.
1301:OUR GLORIOUS DEAD
405:Thanks very much
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1400:Closing comment
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462:- The city of?
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98:
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81:Nominator(s):
78:
77:
74:
71:
68:
66:
63:
59:
55:
51:
44:
42:
37:
32:
27:
26:
19:
1460:
1457:
1417:Closing note
1416:
1399:
1355:
1352:okay, done.
1283:
1239:
1206:
1188:
1166:
1134:
1109:
1076:
1065:
1048:
1022:
970:
964:
886:
880:
861:"guildhall".
795:
768:
766:
744:
704:
649:
601:
580:
550:
494:
475:
459:
446:
412:
356:
339:
306:
267:
250:
212:
202:
195:
190:
178:push to talk
160:
141:push to talk
128:
111:
107:
85:
80:
49:
47:
35:
28:
1356:HJ Mitchell
1284:HJ Mitchell
1189:HJ Mitchell
1053:The Bounder
1023:HJ Mitchell
971:HJ Mitchell
887:HJ Mitchell
745:HJ Mitchell
735:what I have
650:HJ Mitchell
495:HJ Mitchell
413:HJ Mitchell
203:talk to me?
161:HJ Mitchell
112:HJ Mitchell
86:HJ Mitchell
1331:auntieruth
1139:auntieruth
952:auntieruth
818:auntieruth
785:auntieruth
217:Nikkimaria
1443:Sarastro1
1425:WP:FAC/ar
1421:candidate
1404:Sarastro1
1276:Sarastro1
1225:Sarastro1
1211:Sarastro1
1118:Sarastro1
737:in store
318:flambeaux
196:Jimfbleak
54:Sarastro1
1419:: This
1377:Ian Rose
1348:Ian Rose
1305:Ian Rose
1260:Ian Rose
1171:Ian Rose
1152:Ian Rose
1098:Ealdgyth
1080:contribs
1070:Ealdgyth
930:Hchc2009
866:Hchc2009
857:"stone";
769:comments
767:Support
326:flambeau
153:! I put
50:promoted
1240:Comment
1207:Comment
1167:Support
1049:Support
781:service
705:Support
560:Indeed.
191:Support
149:Thanks
129:Support
1334:(talk)
1142:(talk)
955:(talk)
821:(talk)
796:Oppose
788:(talk)
213:Images
58:FACBot
1112:: As
1068:from
881:guide
830:Ceoil
713:Ceoil
691:Ceoil
667:Ceoil
634:Ceoil
585:Ceoil
514:Ceoil
479:Ceoil
454:Done.
434:Ceoil
407:Ceoil
389:Ceoil
377:Gone.
361:Ceoil
330:torch
287:Ceoil
260:Done.
137:These
16:<
1447:talk
1408:talk
1381:talk
1309:talk
1248:talk
1229:talk
1215:talk
1175:talk
1156:talk
1122:talk
1114:John
1102:Talk
1074:talk
1057:talk
1006:talk
1002:John
992:talk
988:John
944:here
934:talk
908:talk
870:talk
834:talk
808:talk
804:John
739:next
731:your
717:talk
695:talk
671:talk
638:talk
589:talk
579:Ok.
536:talk
518:talk
483:talk
438:talk
393:talk
365:talk
349:Yep.
291:talk
221:talk
155:this
62:talk
56:via
1439:bot
151:Dan
52:by
1449:)
1435:}}
1429:{{
1410:)
1383:)
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1177:)
1158:)
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367:)
324:,
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199:-
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67:.
33:.
1445:(
1406:(
1379:(
1350::
1346:@
1307:(
1278::
1274:@
1270::
1266:@
1262::
1258:@
1246:(
1227:(
1213:(
1173:(
1154:(
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391:(
363:(
289:(
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60:(
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