Knowledge (XXG)

:Featured article candidates/SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911)/archive1 - Knowledge (XXG)

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428:
Re. "inverted", sorry to be a dog worrying a bone but in what way was the order "reversed" -- do you mean it was cancelled by whoever gave it, overturned by someone else in authority, or simply ignored by the fleet? I'm keen not just to get the nuance right, but also to avoid "reversed" appearing in
467:
OMG, you didn't mean "order" as in "command", but "order" as in "sequence"...?! Heh, sorry but earlier you had "Scheer ordered the fleet..." and I gathered it was this order (command) that was "inverted" (or reversed or overturned, etc). Okay, let's start again but clarify: how about
738:
Parsecboy, could you please remind me whether you've had a close paraphrasing check in another FAC? I lose track, and we've seen many issues lately in MilHist articles ... not to pick on you :) Independent review is lacking, but it seems ships rarely get that.
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There's still a lot of words (order, joint operation, capture, issue) in common but I can see the argument those are all technical terms. I'd ping one of the admins because I don't know exactly what they want to address - it might have been fine as is.
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Getting a third opinion would be fine (perhaps Nikkimaria could take a look at this?) - I've always thought that paraphrasing had more to do with similar sentence structure than with word choice, but I could be wrong.
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pg. 6 (not p. 14), Gardiner, Barrett and Halpern are mostly in Google books; I didn't see anything close with the Staff, Gardiner or Barrett refs, but with Halpern Citation 46 was ok, but 47 has close-paraphrasing.
351:-- is it standard in the German Navy to say "the III Squadron" and not simply "III Squadron" (as we tend to in the Commonwealth)? If it was "3rd Squadron" the definite article would make sense but appears not. 189:. I feel this article is very close to FA quality, and any issues that are identified can be addressed during the review. Thanks in advance to all those who take the time to review this article. 185:; she was ultimately scuttled in Scapa Flow at the end of the war and later raised for scrapping. I wrote this article back in December last year; it has since passed a GA review a MILHIST 757:
I haven't had one - I took a bit of time off from FAC (and Knowledge (XXG) in general) for a couple of months, which seems to have coincided with the close paraphrasing issue coming out.
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turn to port to bring his ships closer to the British battlecruisers and the accompanying fast battleships of the 5th Battle Squadron; a minute later, the order to open fire was given.
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on reviewed criteria: 1(a), 1(d), 1(e), 2, and 4. Cool. In addition to the above, neutrality, stability, style, and detail criteria appear to be met. Cheers,
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I don't actually know - I mainly have been doing that because it sounds right in my head (i.e., if one reads III aloud as Third)
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The doubts were overcome, and on 18 September the orders for the joint operation to capture Ösel and Moon Island were issued.
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Yup, gotta love multiple meanings for the same word that aren't exactly clear from context :) I opted for the first wording.
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That's just not the style guide used by academic historians. Generally the CMS is used in history journals, etc.
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Re. "unit", that's fine, just wanted to make sure it wasn't equivalent to "ship", which would've been redundant
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Be consistent in whether or not you provide publisher locations, and if so in what cases those are wikilinked.
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On 18 September, the order was issued for a joint operation with the army to capture Ösel and Moon Islands;...
723: 267: 367:-- Was it Scheer who gave the order? Be nice to avoid the passive voice here and say that so-and-so did it. 783: 747: 419:
Re. "the III Squadron", I'm not going to make a fuss about it myself, main thing is that you're consistent
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I don't know that I can - it's pretty much all print sources, most of which I don't have easy access to.
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Does what is essentially a dictionary definition really require a citation? Would linking "go-slow" to
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The series of reversals in course and confused maneuvers disorganized the fleet and inverted the order
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I can try to review Tarrant since its over half of the citations; the 1995 version is my library.
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I believe it should be capitalized just by itself if there is no name or rank. Thanks again, Ian.
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Be consistent in how page ranges are notated. For example, why "pp. 246–7" but "pp. 231–232"?
344:-- prose generally appears to be good, and all statements appear to be cited; some points: 936: 884: 874: 793: 304: 280: 178: 904: 758: 654: 626: 573: 560: 501: 454: 406: 325: 235: 190: 157: 453:
led the line initially but afterward was located close to the rear of the formation).
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In early 1914, Friedrich der Grosse participated in additional ship and unit training.
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If you ping Nikkimaria, she may do it, but the poor dear is terribly overworked :)
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The series of reversals in course and confused maneuvers disorganized the fleet and
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It's both, but in this particular case I'd say it's been sufficiently rephrased.
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I'm not familiar with the actual issue/checking procedure, but here goes: Staff
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But I still can't get over the fact that Grosse is spelled without the Eszett ß.
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Friedrich der Grosse was assigned to the III Squadron of the High Seas Fleet
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appears to be solely Harvard referencing, which is not used by historians.
318: 486:) if that's what you mean. Don't you love the English language? Cheers, 181:
for the majority of World War I and saw heavy service, including the
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Featured article candidates/SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911)/archive1
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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No comment on the article, but TGilmour is a blocked sockpuppet.
826:
a replacement for the obsolete coastal defense ship Heimdall
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in course and confused maneuvers disorganized the fleet and
402:
Substituted "reversed" for "inverted" - is that clearer now?
446:
It's just that the order of the ships was reversed (i.e.,
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Fixed the rest. Thanks for checking these, Nikkimaria.
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rather than using the footnote make everyone happy?
207:- There are no dead links but there are two dabs. 963:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. 824:Parsecboy, citation 3 doesn't say anything about 399:Yes, Scheer gave the order - passive voice fixed. 41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates 373:-- What exactly do you mean by "inverted" here? 43:. No further edits should be made to this page. 693:Really meets the criteria. Brilliant article. 572:all images used in article are acceptably PD. 969:No further edits should be made to this page. 29:The following is an archived discussion of a 8: 931:No worries, I can see why you thought that. 828:, you probably need to cite that separately. 18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates 122: 429:the same sentence as "reversals"... ;-) 125: 115: 396:"Unit" here refers to the III Squadron 357:-- What is a "unit" in this instance? 7: 483:reversed the sequence of the ships 472:inverted the sequence of the ships 24: 555:made since I reviewed this for 425:Re. change to active voice, tks 72:SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911) 65:SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911) 258:and have nothing to add here. 254:I had reviewed the article at 1: 361:At 17:45, Scheer ordered a 342:Prose & citation review 31:featured article nomination 986: 917:Got it, sorry about that! 913:15:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 842:14:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 802:15:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC) 788:15:24, 27 June 2011 (UTC) 767:15:18, 27 June 2011 (UTC) 752:15:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC) 703:02:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC) 677:07:49, 17 June 2011 (UTC) 663:14:47, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 649:13:47, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 635:12:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 612:12:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 590:21:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC) 565:04:36, 14 June 2011 (UTC) 539:12:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 510:11:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 496:02:26, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 463:01:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 442:01:28, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 415:16:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC) 389:08:55, 11 June 2011 (UTC) 334:16:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC) 313:01:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 289:01:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 966:Please do not modify it. 941:17:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 927:16:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 893:03:33, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 879:17:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 864:16:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 733:02:55, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 432:Re. "Von", tks. Cheers, 377:made clear to von Reuter 272:13:24, 8 June 2011 (UTC) 244:03:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC) 230:23:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC) 214:20:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC) 199:17:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC) 177:was the flagship of the 166:17:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC) 36:Please do not modify it. 279:- spotchecks not done. 234:Thanks to both of you. 551:, having reviewed the 175:Friedrich der Grosse 56:23:28, 10 July 2011 549:standard disclaimer 297:Smolke or Schmolke? 850:look re: Halpern? 817:vs. Halpern p.214 585:Operation Big Bear 730: 598:What about using 261: 183:Battle of Jutland 169: 151: 150: 977: 968: 820: 816: 780: 744: 729: 724: 721: 624: 618: 586: 580: 259: 211: 154: 123: 113: 95: 48:The article was 38: 985: 984: 980: 979: 978: 976: 975: 974: 973: 964: 778: 742: 725: 718: 714: 710: 622: 616: 588: 584: 574: 209: 179:High Seas Fleet 86: 70: 68: 34: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 983: 981: 972: 971: 958: 956: 955: 954: 953: 952: 951: 950: 949: 948: 947: 946: 945: 944: 943: 901: 900: 899: 898: 897: 896: 895: 830: 821: 811: 770: 769: 736: 735: 716: 712: 688: 687: 686: 685: 684: 683: 682: 681: 680: 679: 582: 543: 523: 522: 521: 520: 519: 518: 517: 516: 515: 514: 513: 512: 477:The series of 430: 426: 423: 420: 403: 400: 397: 394: 374: 368: 358: 352: 339: 338: 337: 336: 322: 301: 298: 295: 256:A-class review 249: 248: 247: 246: 217: 216: 187:A-class review 171: 170: 156:Nominator(s): 149: 148: 147: 146: 144:External links 141: 136: 128: 127: 121: 120: 67: 62: 61: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 982: 970: 967: 961: 960: 959: 942: 938: 934: 930: 929: 928: 924: 920: 916: 915: 914: 910: 906: 902: 894: 890: 886: 882: 881: 880: 876: 872: 867: 866: 865: 861: 857: 852: 851: 849: 845: 844: 843: 839: 835: 831: 829: 827: 822: 812: 809: 805: 804: 803: 799: 795: 791: 790: 789: 785: 781: 774: 773: 772: 771: 768: 764: 760: 756: 755: 754: 753: 749: 745: 734: 731: 728: 722: 720: 707: 706: 705: 704: 700: 696: 692: 678: 674: 670: 666: 665: 664: 660: 656: 652: 651: 650: 646: 642: 638: 637: 636: 632: 628: 621: 615: 614: 613: 609: 605: 601: 597: 594: 593: 592: 591: 587: 581: 579: 578: 571: 570:Image review: 567: 566: 562: 558: 554: 550: 547:on prose per 546: 541: 540: 536: 532: 528: 511: 507: 503: 499: 498: 497: 493: 489: 485: 484: 480: 474: 473: 466: 465: 464: 460: 456: 452: 451: 445: 444: 443: 439: 435: 431: 427: 424: 421: 418: 417: 416: 412: 408: 404: 401: 398: 395: 392: 391: 390: 386: 382: 378: 375: 372: 369: 366: 364: 359: 356: 353: 350: 347: 346: 345: 343: 335: 331: 327: 323: 320: 316: 315: 314: 310: 306: 302: 299: 296: 293: 292: 291: 290: 286: 282: 278: 277:Source review 274: 273: 269: 265: 264:MisterBee1966 257: 253: 245: 241: 237: 233: 232: 231: 227: 223: 219: 218: 215: 212: 206: 203: 202: 201: 200: 196: 192: 188: 184: 180: 176: 168: 167: 163: 159: 153: 152: 145: 142: 140: 137: 135: 132: 131: 130: 129: 124: 119: 116: 114: 111: 107: 103: 99: 94: 90: 85: 81: 77: 73: 66: 63: 60: 58: 55: 51: 44: 42: 37: 32: 27: 26: 19: 965: 962: 957: 825: 823: 807: 737: 726: 711: 690: 689: 667:Understood. 600:Template:sfn 595: 576: 575: 569: 568: 561:push to talk 544: 542: 526: 524: 482: 478: 476: 471: 469: 449: 376: 370: 360: 354: 348: 341: 340: 276: 275: 251: 250: 205:DAB/EL check 204: 174: 172: 155: 139:Citation bot 69: 49: 47: 35: 28: 848:this change 808:Battleships 559:. - Dank ( 479:alterations 885:Nikkimaria 794:Nikkimaria 305:Nikkimaria 281:Nikkimaria 262:Well done 210:GamerPro64 933:Parsecboy 905:Parsecboy 871:Parsecboy 846:How does 813:Article: 759:Parsecboy 655:Parsecboy 627:Parsecboy 577:Wizardman 502:Parsecboy 455:Parsecboy 407:Parsecboy 363:two-point 326:Parsecboy 236:Parsecboy 191:Parsecboy 158:Parsecboy 695:TGilmour 669:TGilmour 641:TGilmour 604:TGilmour 531:Ian Rose 488:Ian Rose 434:Ian Rose 381:Ian Rose 319:Slowdown 222:TGilmour 134:Analysis 54:Karanacs 50:promoted 779:Georgia 743:Georgia 719:anguard 691:Support 596:Comment 557:A-class 553:changes 545:Support 527:Support 252:Support 220:Fixed. 126:Toolbox 89:protect 84:history 93:delete 777:Sandy 741:Sandy 639:Why? 450:König 110:views 102:watch 98:links 16:< 937:talk 923:talk 919:Kirk 909:talk 889:talk 875:talk 860:talk 856:Kirk 838:talk 834:Kirk 798:talk 784:Talk 763:talk 748:Talk 727:Wha? 715:ven 699:talk 673:talk 659:talk 645:talk 631:talk 608:talk 535:talk 525:(OD) 506:talk 492:talk 475:(or 459:talk 448:SMS 438:talk 411:talk 385:talk 330:talk 309:talk 285:talk 268:talk 240:talk 226:talk 195:talk 173:SMS 162:talk 106:logs 80:talk 76:edit 620:sfn 52:by 939:) 925:) 911:) 891:) 877:) 862:) 840:) 800:) 786:) 765:) 750:) 701:) 675:) 661:) 647:) 633:) 623:}} 617:{{ 610:) 602:? 563:) 537:) 508:) 494:) 461:) 440:) 413:) 387:) 332:) 311:) 287:) 270:) 242:) 228:) 197:) 164:) 108:| 104:| 100:| 96:| 91:| 87:| 82:| 78:| 59:. 33:. 935:( 921:( 907:( 887:( 873:( 858:( 836:( 796:( 782:( 761:( 746:( 717:M 713:S 697:( 671:( 657:( 643:( 629:( 606:( 533:( 504:( 490:( 457:( 436:( 409:( 383:( 328:( 307:( 283:( 266:( 238:( 224:( 193:( 160:( 112:) 74:(

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Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
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SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911)
SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911)
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Featured article candidates/SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911)/archive1
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17:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
High Seas Fleet
Battle of Jutland
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17:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
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