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:Featured article candidates/White-bellied Sea Eagle/archive1 - Knowledge

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2060:@Ucucha and Carcharoth - I have reworked into three paras (1) australian indigenous beliefs (2) those beliefs elsewhere (3) more modern material. There is a nice covering phrase in the thesis for Australian beliefs, but none for elsewhere. I mean, it would be great if someone had pointed out its loud call had been written about in several folk tales (the Malay, Indian and Nissan stories), but none exists so I can't do the OR and tie it together. Have also tried looking for more extra-Australian material but without much success... :( 1471:
some attempts had been made to address this after the GA nomination, so possibly more still is needed here to avoid undue focus on Australia). Hopefully there is something on the aspects of sea-eagles in general, even if not this one, in the mythologies other than those in Australia (I've looked, but it seems a keyword to differentiate between sea eagles in the mythologies of the subcontinent and sea eagles in the mythologies of North American Indians is needed).
1448:(of the cultural aspects section), following the changes discussed below. Will leave others to review the rest of the article, which looks fine to me in terms of copyediting and readability, but is getting closer scrutiny from others as regards the content (and has been looked at by WikiProject Birds editors in any case). Apologies for not having time to review the whole article. 1498:
of the EagleCam, the park it is in is one of Sydney's biggest and most notable parks, and one has to also remember that very few ornithological items ever make the news, they are generally deemed not notable enough. This one did, and this camera has been a fixture there for over three years now, so I figured that was pretty significant for a bird-related story.
1971:"A study of the species in Jervis Bay showed increases in the numbers of immature and subadult birds in autumn, although it was unclear whether these were locally-fledged or (as was considered more likely) an influx of young birds born and raised elsewhere in Australia"—why is this not under "Breeding", together with the information about the breeding season? 1112:"A review of average egg-shell thickness between 1947 and 1993 to evaluate the impact of the pesticide DDT on egg breakage found that the shells of White-bellied Sea Eagle eggs had thinned by 6%, which was not thought likely to result in more breakage overall although individual clutches would have been more affected." Too much info stuffed in here awkwardly. 1475:
context is needed, as it is not immediately obvious that you are going from a nest observed in Australia in 2010 and 2011 to an observation tower built much earlier (presumably) as the magnate in question died in 1964 - the obvious question that the article leaves unanswered is when this tower was built.
1164:
I reworded it to, "This average level of thinning was not thought likely to result in significantly more breakage overall, however individual clutches that had been even thinner might have broken. ". The idea is that statistically 6% won't result in more breakage, but that the 6% is an average, hence
2139:
done first, one of the repeated ones is actually how they ask to be referenced on the bottom of the department web page, tweaked the other department one (note that state and federal gov'ts are different entities), the "Manly Sea Eagles Official Site" is the work= parameter of the cite web template,
1467:
That focus on Australia struck me as strange, given that the range is given earlier in the lead as including the coasts of India and Sri Lanka (and parts of the Malay Archipelago), and I wondered whether there was stuff about cultural influences outside Australia in the main body of the article that
1497:
Agree with alot of this - one of the frustrating things about cultural material is the piecemeal nature of the information available. Regarding the tower in Malaysia, I couldn't find a building date from that source, but will have a look to see if I can find that elsewhere. Regarding the notability
260:
Gone through all extra sources apart one about a record of it eating a prickly toadfish which I can't get fulltext of. Given its consumption of a wide variety of prey, I don't think it is essential but would be nice to add if I can get. But you might want to delay revising your support until I deal
1482:(the bit about the EagleCam attracting 'statewide attention' in particular seems aimed at Australian readers), but would be a logical endpoint for the article if the Malay magnate sentence were given a year and moved to the third paragraph of this section (the one including the Malaysia material). 1570:(see link at bottom), it was 1 February 1980 (you probably also want to add a link from this bird article to that article). Similarly, when did this bird become the emblem of the Malaysian state of Selangor? When did this bird become the emblem of the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles rugby league team? 1565:
and search for 'Loke') gives a year of 1949 for the observations made from that tower. I also looked at some of the other cultural stuff, and it might seem less piecemeal and more encyclopedic if you give more of the history. For example, when was the 10,000 Singapore dollar banknote issued? From
1470:
I then started to read the 'Cultural significance' section more closely, and that struck me as a bit of a scattered collection of facts with no unifying narrative and an undue emphasis on Australia (possibly due to existing bias in the available sources - I noted this before I realised above that
1474:
One (specific) comment: the sentence on the Malay magnate seems to have been placed where it is to go with the other "nest" sentence, but the general structure of the section appear to be geographical, so it might make more sense grouped with the other "Malay" sentences. Failing that, some date
2051:
Like Carcharoth, I think the "Cultural significance" section is rather piecemeal. Do we need all those names, for example? It obviously has names in the area where it occurs (the interwikis will give you a few more), but we don't normally list those except when they are otherwise relevant. The
1462:
I enjoyed reading an earlier bird FAC that I commented on, so thought I'd read through this one and see what my initial impressions were. My first thoughts are that the zoology parts of the article are excellent and very informative. The concern I had was from the final sentence of the lead:
2092:
Ok, I have removed the ones which were just isolated "the name of the bird is X" ones - I left the gulbi one as it is in Colebee as well, ditto Mak Mak. Listing Kuna-ngarrk-ngarrk helps show the Umbrawarra Gorge Nature Park (which is not far from where the Mak Mak are) is from a distinct
2161:
You don't need to fill in both |publisher= and |work=, and I think the latter is rarely needed in cite web. There are a few more like this; the ref to Birds Australia apparently has |publisher=Birds Australia|work=Birds Australia website; that's not helping anyone.
183:
collaboration for April 2011, which I have carried on with till here. It got an exhausive GA review by J Milburn, and I feel it is within striking distance of FA status and believe I can deal with any queries promptly. It is a wikicup nomination. Have at it,
1760:"The talons, bill, and eyes are dark as in all Gondwanan sea eagles"—I couldn't find this in the cited reference (Wink et al., 1996). I'm not sure the word "Gondwanan" is a good choice here, since those eagles probably evolved long after the breakup of 1144:
I tweaked the wording a bit, please check. Still having trouble with this sentence:" "This was not thought likely to result in more breakage overall although individual clutches would have been more affected." ... needs something, I don't know what
1077:"They are relatively abundant in Hong Kong, where the population increased from 39 to 57 birds between 2002 and 2009." I don't understand how about 50 birds can be considered relatively abundant compared to a global population of 10-100 thousand? 2334:: I believe the lead is sufficiently well-written, and it appears to contain material from each of the major sections (a refreshing change of pace indeed!). However, there are a few questions that I think should be answered in the lead: 1980:
I was intending on some notes on territoriality and seasonal movements in the beginning bit because it is focussing on outside breeding season more than the breeding season itself....it leaves a very small behaviour section if I move it
2215:
I left it in as I couldn't find the information elsewhere....and upon thinking about it there may be a good reason why it isn't elsewhere (i.e. not quite accurate), and then I realised much of it is in next sentence, so deleted
1558: 117: 1520:
Damn - no dates on google anywhere - I moved it so all Malay material together. I'll see what else I can find and recalibrate lead as summary of salient points of section with appropriate weighting. Give me a bit of
2367:
Aargh indeed -- I know the frustration. If you happen to stumble upon a source for this fact, it would be a great addition, but we obviously can't invent facts, so don't fret over it too much. --
723:
I found several recent articles (post-2002) from a Web of Knowledge search that weren't used in this article. Will post these to the article talk page so as not to take up too much room here.
230:. As well as dealing with the many niggles I raised in the GAC, Cas has managed to expand the article so that it does not feel so Australia-centric. I have nothing further to add. 1884:"The White-bellied Sea Eagle is generally sedentary and territorial, although it may travel long distances. They have been reported travelling upriver to hunt for flying foxes ( 1267:"The community held localities around Booderee National Park to be connected with it." I cannot parse this sentence easily… "held" is synonymous here with "considered", correct? 349:
gah! you're right! that book was added before I began buffing the article, and the only inline ref was lacking a page number, and I didn't use it anyway, so (belatedly) removed.
2093:
source/story/people etc. The other four help flesh out the people/locales talking about the Sea Eagle and are good for flow. If I removed all them it'd sound more listy again.
1121:
It's easy to forget that many people aren't familiar with DDT - I added an intro sentence, and split a long sentence. Do you think that helps enough or shall I revisit?
2028:
in Oz. Is a rewording sufficient (as both categories are linked on the national page), or do you think I should also link both original rulings on the wikipedia page?
2130:, refs. 26 and 33 repeat the name of the department (and are otherwise inconsistent), ref. 68 shouldn't have "Manly Sea Eagles Official Site" italicized, etcetera. 1546: 2250:
I'm a member of the Bird Project, and I've made a number of minor edits to this article. Unsurprisingly, I can't find much wrong with it, so just two comments
1465:"The White-bellied Sea Eagle is revered by indigenous people in many parts of Australia and the Solomon Islands, and is the subject of various folk tales." 88: 83: 1926:"(including one record of seizing the last species when unsuccessful in obtaining its prey)"—sounds awkward; probably better put it in a separate sentence 92: 40: 796:"It is opportunistic, and also consumes carrion and a wide variety of animals." Why "also"? Doesn't the first part of the sentence imply the second? 75: 1721:
in the "Taxonomy" section. Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive terms, but it's better to be consistent, and "species pair" redirects to
1409:
PS: The cite doi template has been recording page ranges from start page, fixed them now. Some articles are only single page short notes though.
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I'm going to withdraw my support for now, as Sasata raises a very valid point about the possibility of including a number of other sources.
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The map shows this species occurring in the Solomon Islands (the country), where the article says Sanford's Sea Eagle occurs.
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reworded to "Both these species have at least some dark colouration in their tails" - age bit is redundant on second reading.
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yep. reworded to "Opportunistic, it consumes carrion and a wide variety of animals." - wasn't too keen on the "and" actually
2345:
aaargh - even though it is blindingly obvious that it is an apex predator, finding a source which say just that is elusive
1640: 2007:"The White-bellied Sea Eagle is listed as marine and migratory"—what is the relevance of the "marine and migratory" part? 975:
link Java, Captain Cook, specific name, genetic divergence, mitochondrial (DNA), New Guinea, molecular, allozyme, plumage
79: 180: 2025: 1478:
In general, some of the stuff mentioned in the 'Cultural significance' section also comes across as trivial and/or
1086:
HK is really tiny (~1000 sq. km), the range of this critter is huge - Australian and southern Asian coastline.
1329:
there are five instances of "known as" in two paragraphs of "Cultural significance", perhaps reword a couple
71: 64: 1197:
link habitat destruction, Murray River, Threatened Species Protection Act 1995, Darwin (Northern Territory)
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agree - just added a note on immature plumage but hard to figure out the next-most important fact to add.
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Aboriginal tribe that uses the same name for itself and for the eagle is quite interesting, for example.
1545:
I found the Sanger (1995) reference while looking as well. A similar story is related in one of those
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Some refs need to be formatted: for example, current ref. 9 (to Baldwin 2010) should probably use
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My concerns have been dealt with, and I think the article complies with the FAC criteria.
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How about changing the subheading "Cited texts" to the more accurate "Cited literature"?
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Perhaps indicate that 1980 is not the original publication date for Liddell & Scott
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Aaah, that's why there is that paler blue circle - adjusted map caption accordingly
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appears (frustratingly) to be a template problem - not sure what's going on there.
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I noticed that several multi-paged journal articles only give the first page #
473:
Consistency of publisher location required (Kennedy v. Liddell & Scott)
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some might have thinned more (and broken). Tricky point to get across...
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
2024:
categories under those tow pages which make it a protected species
1897:
Damn, something's gone awry there and a reference has dropped out.
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might also help (it also mentions the story). It is also mentioned
1468:
should be included in the lead (the answer seems to be 'probably').
1586:
Will get to it. Got most, but yet to realign lead and body of text
2204:
http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/birds/Haliaeetus_leucogaster.htm
2273:"Description" veers from singular in para 1 to plural in para 2 1955:
Unclear now whether the prey was the eagle's or the gannet's.
2302:
Should "coot" be bolded since it refers to a single species?
940:
two "first described" in the first two sentences of Taxonomy
118:
Featured article candidates/White-bellied Sea Eagle/archive1
1364:
why is "Kuna-ngarrk-ngarrk" capitalized but not "nairanaa"?
308:
Grewal citation should be standardised for multiple authors
526:
FN 8: can omit university name from the italicized portion
1232:"… is listed as vulnerable" elsewhere this is capitalized 143: 105: 101: 97: 57: 831:
why link India and Australia, but not Tasmania? (lead)
407:
Correct format of citation 6 (Schreiber & Weitzel)
905:
lead seems a touch thin for the length of the article
207:
is unproblematic, though a link to the base image of
2337:
Are there any critters that prey upon this critter?
1590:
Tolkien never described Gwaihir as white did he...?
1282:I changed to "considered", revert if you disagree. 2456:In any case, thanks for the good work thus far! -- 1888:)"—is this really accurately cited to Tarr (1962)? 1635:is in Papua New Guinea, not in the country of the 2472:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. 743:all processed/checked apart from one I can't get. 1557:. There are also some hits on Google Books (see 43:. No further edits should be made to this page. 2424:How long have people known about this critter? 2478:No further edits should be made to this page. 1547:Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society 505:Otherwise sources & citations look fine. 415:took me a while to figure that one...done now 29:The following is an archived discussion of a 8: 2082:Thanks. Still, do we need all those names? 1652:agree - just removed any locality from lead 1561:). The Illustrated London News report (see 440:Consistency required Retrieved v. retrieved 1764:; why not use "Southern Hemisphere" or so? 633:Be consistent in how volumes are notated. 122: 41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates 1713:Sanford's and White-bellied are called a 2016:I have reworded it a little - it is the 1808:..fixed now. nuts to my speed-reading... 1794:Thanks. Also, is the reference correct? 559:Debus entry should include page numbers 125: 115: 1725:, which I don't think is appropriate. 949:trimmed and join so sequence is clear 211:, if there is one, would be helpful. 209:File:Haliaeetus leucogaster distr.png 18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates 7: 1568:Singapore Bird Series currency notes 1773:Ok, latter is plainer English too. 261:with more bits and pieces below... 24: 2206:a high-quality reliable source? 1804:duh! I shoulda realised - dark 288:. The article's looking great. 2140:reduced it to "Official Site". 1588:. See answer below to Ucucha. 1010:"dark-head" no hyphen required 341:No citations to del Hoyo et al 1: 1641:Solomon Islands (archipelago) 2172:ok, work parameters removed. 2398:added stats of larger size. 592:Dove or Dove Publications? 31:featured article nomination 2495: 520:Additional source comments 2467:03:04, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 2450:03:48, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 2415:03:48, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 2378:14:30, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 2363:03:48, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1580:21:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 1537:08:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 1514:05:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 1492:01:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 1440:01:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 781:20:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 734:22:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 717:22:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 697:09:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 671:22:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 643:13:24, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 625:08:51, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 584:09:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 551:09:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 515:12:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 498:08:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 465:09:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 432:09:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 399:08:47, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 366:08:42, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 333:08:40, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 298:20:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 255:09:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC) 240:11:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 221:11:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 200:02:04, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 172:02:04, 28 June 2011 (UTC) 2475:Please do not modify it. 2389:How big is this critter? 2325:14:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2296:14:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2265:14:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2243:03:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 2233:12:23, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 2189:13:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2167:13:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2157:12:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 2087:13:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 2077:13:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1998:08:29, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1960:13:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 1951:08:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1918:08:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1874:08:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1824:14:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 1799:13:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 1790:08:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1751:08:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1704:13:35, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1669:13:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 1623:22:36, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1607:00:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 1458:11:02, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 1426:13:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1401:22:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1375:00:41, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1355:22:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1316:06:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1292:03:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1258:22:31, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1223:22:31, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1182:20:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1155:03:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1138:22:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1103:22:11, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1068:22:11, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1001:21:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 966:22:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 931:21:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 896:12:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 857:12:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 822:12:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 760:14:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC) 649:Two more source comments 278:08:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 36:Please do not modify it. 1858:sloppiness, fixed now. 1639:. It's arguably in the 600:? Check for consistency 72:White-bellied Sea Eagle 65:White-bellied Sea Eagle 2248:Support, COI, comments 1899:I'll update once found 1844:Grey-headed Fish Eagle 1584:Aha. thanks for that. 868:Indigenous Australians 1901:. Found it and added. 1430:General comments by 522:after edit conflict 56:03:42, 14 July 2011 866:link indigenous to 179:Hi all, this was a 1840:Wedge-tailed Eagle 1717:in the lead and a 680:sounds good. done. 2279:duly singularised 1734:superspecies done 1591: 1384:capped second one 1299:works fine for me 705:Literature review 181:Wikiproject Birds 175: 151: 150: 2486: 2477: 2262: 2255: 2129: 2123: 1589: 1241:oops. got it now 303:Sources comments 154: 123: 113: 95: 48:The article was 38: 2494: 2493: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2473: 2260: 2253: 2127: 2121: 1934:duly split now. 1856:cos I hate them 1723:cryptic species 1637:Solomon Islands 1446:Partial support 86: 70: 68: 34: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2492: 2490: 2481: 2480: 2455: 2454: 2453: 2452: 2427: 2426: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2417: 2392: 2391: 2385: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2339: 2338: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2304: 2303: 2299: 2298: 2275: 2274: 2268: 2267: 2238: 2237: 2236: 2235: 2209: 2208: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 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Index

Knowledge:Featured article candidates
featured article nomination
Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
Karanacs

White-bellied Sea Eagle
White-bellied Sea Eagle
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Featured article candidates/White-bellied Sea Eagle/archive1
Analysis
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External links
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Wikiproject Birds
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File:Haliaeetus leucogaster distr.png

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