Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates/The World Before the Flood/archive1

736:. Regarding how long it took to paint, there's no way of knowing as he didn't keep notes and was so pathologically shy we don't have any accounts from visitors to his studio of what he was working on. His paintings usually took three days to complete once he got started on the final version (one day inking outlines, one day painting, one day glazing and overpainting) but for his showpiece paintings could take anything up to a couple of years. ‑ 1241:: Another painting by Etty, it's discussed in the section that the image appears in. Same copyright considerations as the lead image, perhaps without the 1923 aspect as it may have been unpublished. Also, a word is missing after the "to" in "1922: transferred to from Lord Leverhulme's private collection". 696:

section. I would like to see a sentence or two about what other studies are extant or mentioned in sources (Burnage 2011b or whatever). For example, were they drawings or paintings of individual characters or groups, or other sketches of the whole composition? Do we have any idea how long he worked on it?

1404:

It would be quite tricky to source without crossing the Original Research line (although one could say something like "artists such as Titian, Poussin and Rubens had previously painted Bacchanals but all were based on scenes from Ancient Greek religion, not on Biblical themes" and allow the reader to

642:

that's the current approved format when one citation supports the comment in parentheses, and the other supports the surrounding statement. Moving the and to the immediate end of the statement they support rather than after the first succeeding punctuation mark will mean a footnote appearing before

1109:

Not easily, Etty's figure studies come up for sale fairly frequently (generally at around £5000–£10,000 apiece), but almost all his history paintings are in the hands of public institutions so comparable works rarely come on the market. Flipping through auction sites, the most comparable piece I can

1021:

Is it really accurate to say, in the caption, that Etty "reused" the figure of the seated black soldier or, in the text, that this figure had "previously appeared" in the earlier painting? The figures have similarities, but there are distinct differences in posture; one is seated, the other kneeling

1784:

I'd still consider "as of" appropriate in this particular instance, but reworded "By 1844 at the latest" which should be non-controversial. What I don't want is the give the impression that there's any significance to the 1844 date other than that's when it was catalogued—there are almost certainly

1080:

The quoted letter does not form part of "legacy", and I am uncertain whether that is indeed the best title for this section, as there is little in it that might be described as the legacy of this work. I don't gather that the painting had any lasting influence on later painters, which is generally

871:

Removed from the lead, although I think it should remain in the body text; there is some significance to the fact that it was bought by a member of the aristocracy and not northern new-money (who at the time were the main market for experimental art, as they didn't have the public-school background

593:"and the reaction of uneducated audiences to these paintings caused concern throughout the 19th century.": I have a slight preference for "and these paintings caused concern throughout the 19th century." Most readers will get what you're saying, but some won't, and a misreading would be unfortunate. 1649:

Artworks in this period were rarely given titles, so the name under which they're exhibited nowadays is generally at the whim of the curator. When mentioning artworks I generally try to use the name by which it's referred elsewhere on Knowledge (XXG) to avoid confusion (and realistically, whatever

1598:

I can't see an obvious way around it, as they're two different elements. That he explicitly tried to use models of different skin colours in his works is directly relevant, as one of the criticisms of this painting at this time was that it showed an ethnically mixed group rather than traditionally

695:

The text refers to "early versions" and the caption to "preparatory sketches", but I only noticed a mention of the study at York. Checking again from the top, I see "worked through various configurations for the characters in the painting before settling on his final design" earlier in the Subject

1765:

says: "Usually "as of" is used only in cases where an article is intended to provide the most current information available, and will need updating in the future. It should not be used for historical information that will not change." All the use I've seen on Knowledge (XXG) (and in more general

982:

I'm not sure from Genesis 6 that it was the taking of wives that so excited the wrath of God against man that he decided to destroy his creation. After all, there had been rather a lot of wife-taking in the previous chapter, which recounts the ten generations from Adam to Noah. Rather, it seems,

613:

the social class of potential audiences was taken into account when deciding whether something was appropriate for distribution.) Realistically, someone demanding a citation for "the English assume that anyone from a different background to themselves isn't to be trusted" is right up there with

1437:—again, it would be crossing the line into OR to say it in Knowledge (XXG)'s voice, but the insinuation is clearly that he was keeping the mucky stuff in the back room. I can find a source that it was on public display as of 1844, so will remove the "private" and add a note to that effect. ‑ 336:

FAC as well—I don't think any reasonable reader can misinterpret it in context given that it follows "Etty tried to replicate its success by painting nude figures", and mangled phrasing like "specialise in artwork primarily featuring people in a state of nudity" just makes it harder to

179:

All fixed. Realistically neither painting will ever go anywhere—austerity has come to an end, so the risk of local authorities having to sell off their art holdings to make ends meet has dropped considerably, but someone will no doubt complain if it doesn't include a couple of

1418:"The World Before the Flood was bought at its 1828 exhibition by The Marquess of Stafford for 500 guineas (about £39,000 in 2016 terms), to add to his private collection of nudes by Titian." - the implication of the wording seems a little unfair to his lordship, who went to 1698:

to be forced to display side-by-side (as in the case of the preliminary sketch and the finished work here); not only does it force an image width regardless of the reader's thumbnail size preference, but it breaks should any of the constituent images be resized on

1292:

For UK artworks, "publication date" is irrelevant unless the creator is anonymous; as long as the creator is known (which is the case for every image here), copyright expires 70 years after their death. The most recent creator of any image used in this article was

956:"Among the visions of the future the Archangel Michael shows to Adam, Michael shows Adam the world after..." Some awkward repetition in that construction. Suggest: "Among the visions of the future the Archangel Michael shows to Adam is the world after..." 1126:

changed hands for £50), and tend to reflect whatever the last exhibition at the Tate happened to be, and whether it's a piece Andrew Lloyd Webber needs to fill in a gap in his collection—I'd be quite reluctant to put a price on it in Knowledge (XXG)'s

901:

Agreed—per my comment to Cassianto above, I try to vary this "background bio" part slightly on each article in the awareness that someone working through this series is going to read what's essentially the same story 14 times, so glitches slip

1231:: Image of the painter, seems pertinent in the section on the background of the image. Source link is pointing to the image directly rather than a file description page, which makes it harder to trace back the information. Copyright wise 99:

divides opinion. Dismissed by John Constable as "a revel rout of Satyrs and lady bums as usual" and condemned in the press for obscenity, it also drew great praise in some quarters, and was the subject of a ludicrously effusive poem by

998:

article seems to concur with this (while I'm normally leery about taking Knowledge (XXG) articles seriously, I'd assume the key Christianity articles accurately reflect current thinking as there are so many people who'd jump on any

118:

The article uses the same reliable quality sources as those used in previous Featured Articles in the series. I added a couple of archive URLs and removed a dead URL from another ref that there wasn't an archive available for.

1599:

pale English women, while "well respected for his ability to capture flesh tones accurately" implicitly shows that this ethnic mix was intentional on his part and not just that he used a darker shade of paint than intended. ‑

994:, it does seem fairly explicit that the sequence of events is "taking wives", "bearing children", "wickedness of man is great", "And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth". Our own 1258: 1359:

I don't have the source to check; was it definitely bought by the NG? AFAIK in the 1820s the collection consisted only of John Julius Angerstein's collection, plus some paintings which had been donated by George

104:. Having spent the last century on display in Southampton, which is something of an artistic backwater, it's not particularly well known, but it's an interesting aside in the story of English religious art. ‑ 606:

Artists and connoisseurs were generally trusted to approach images of the undraped figure with contemplative composure but audiences uneducated in the intricacies of art criticism tended to be regarded with

1116:, which sold for £37,250 in 2009; were this to come on the market it could go for anything from £10,000 to £200,000 depending on who was bidding. Victorian art prices are notoriously volatile (it's not 1101:

Would it be possible, perhaps by way of a footnote, to indicate the likely present value of the painting, which I'm sure would make an interesting comparison with the lowly figures quoted in the final

745:

OK. How about changing "In early versions the right-most..." to "In the study and other preparatory sketches, the right-most..."? I think that would prevent the "what other versions?" question. --

254:

Expanded a bit on this—I try to keep this background bit as short as possible, as I'm aware that someone reading through this series is having to read essentially the same story a dozen times. ‑

1033:"; for (I hope) obvious reason this is a case where I don't consider it appropriate to use the original wording. If you consider it problematic it can be removed, as it's tangential at best 915:

Again a small quibble, but the words "nude" or "nudity" appear six times in the final paragraph, and I feel that a reduction by a couple would help the prose – for example "distribution of

1055:; I've added a note to this effect (and broken my longstanding dislike of inserting Google Books links, as this is one case where I can imagine people wanting to check for themselves). ‑ 1225:

would also apply but that's just a formality). Our policy is that we consider faithful reproductions of a out-of-copyright 2D work as out of copyright as well, so the license is correct.

1040:

You say that Etty did not give the picture a title. Can you say who gave it the title "The World Before the Flood", and when? (If I overlooked this information in the article, I'm sorry)

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successive generations became over-mighty and corrupt, so that "every imagination of the thoughts of heart was only evil continually", and God decided to wipe them out. (Gen. 6:4–7)

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Yes, that's fine—I tend to use "Legacy" as a default section heading for the "what happened afterwards" final section of articles, but I have no attachment to the term. Changed. ‑

1333:

You might mention that the Poussin was bought by the NG in March 1826, 2 years before the Etty was exhibited. Before that it was chez a banker in Cavendish Sq, but was copied by

609:

if you want chapter-and-verse. (The definition of "obscenity" in English law is based on whether it has the potential to corrupt its audience, rather than on what's depicted;

310:

On reflection, I've removed that "chalk crayons" bit altogether. It doesn't add anything, and it means this article avoids the use of Gilchrist's hagiography altogether. ‑

1673:

Secondly, is it possible to raise the image up from the subsequent section to have the image sitting alongside the reference to it? Either that, or it could sit next to

1244: 1591:

The sentence "flesh tones accurately, and for his fascination with contrasts in skin tones" feels like it's slightly repetitive and could perhaps be re-worked a little?

145:

Second paragraph: "The Athanaeum considered it ..." followed by the next sentence "Colburn's New Monthly Magazine considered it ..." replace one of the "considered it"?

1261:: Image of a painting of a painter that apparently inspired Etty to his painting. This painter lived in the 17th century so same copyright considerations apply as the 155:

Final paragraph: It states paintings remain at York Gallery and Southampton Gallery "as at 2015" - should this be "as at 2016" as they seem to still be held there?

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I have read through the article and found very few issues. All the content is nicely referenced but I'm afraid I have not checked any of the sources themselves.

1741:

F. "As of 1844" feels very wrong: surely "In 1844" or "By 1844"? ("As of" looks like it should be followed by a current date, rather than something historical)

1619:

I'm neutral either way as the meaning is identical—swapped it for "In the decade following the exhibition of Cleopatra Etty tried to replicate its success". ‑

40: 465:

Ah, I'm with you. I've changed the second occurrence to "Etty's painting", to avoid having two successive paragraphs start with "The World Before the Flood"

561:

I guess I'll add my voice asking for a slight rewording of " Etty was the first British artist to specialise in the nude". The issue is unintended humor.

1612:

Would "Following the exhibition of Cleopatra, over the next decade" be better reversed to read "Over the decade following the exhibition of Cleopatra"?

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what the word "legacy" implies. What this section really is is the painting's "later history"; whether that's a sexy enough title, I don't know.

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No, "as of" is the standard Knowledge (XXG) phrasing for "we know it was there at such-and-such a date but don't know how long before that". ‑

1732: 1703: 1666: 1623: 1603: 1582: 1555: 1509: 1496: 1477: 1459: 1441: 1409: 1386: 1364: 1319: 1301: 1286: 1197: 1177: 1167: 1150: 1131: 1092: 1059: 1003: 971: 938: 906: 876: 847: 832: 810: 767: 754: 740: 672: 647: 622: 582: 572: 545: 521: 508: 487: 437: 411: 390: 356: 314: 301: 279: 258: 241: 214: 194: 171: 108: 85: 422:"The painting shows the stages of courtship as described by Milton" -- New para, new full title. I've noticed you've done the same elsewhere. 382:

Paintings at this time didn't have titles, which were a Pre-Raphaelite invention in the late 1840s. There is no "right" and "wrong" title for

1854: 1051:

as a title. Looking through catalogues for the exhibitions at which it was shown, the earliest reference I can find to this name is at the

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To indicate that I'm using this archaic terminology because it's the term used by Milton, and that it's not in Knowledge (XXG)'s voice. ‑

1654:

means and think that "before a term" means they're a group of students celebrating the start of the academic year). I've compromised on

1642:

Firstly, I'm not sure on the naming of artworks, which can be a complicated area, but the National Gallery (who hold the piece) call it

1251:: Image part of a gallery that illustrates how it was created. Caption based on article text. Same copyright considerations as for the 1812:

That's an artefact of the mandated referencing style changing midway through the writing of this. I think I've caught them all now. ‑

247:"William Etty was born in 1787, the son of a York baker and miller. He began as an apprentice printer in Hull" -- Etty or his father? 1315: 1282: 1374: 664: 448:"The World Before the Flood is strongly influenced by A Bacchanalian Revel Before a Statue of Pan (1632–33) by Nicolas Poussin" 101: 631:"),", "),": Reference formats aren't my thing, so I won't comment other than to say I don't usually see them written this way. 1349: 862:

Lead: I'd delete "which greatly pleased Etty", not that I doubt he was pleased, but the observation doesn't seem leadworthy.

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On reflection, I've removed that altogether, as we already have Milton's text running alongside here so it's superfluous. ‑

1306:

Indeed. I was specifying that the PD-US-1923-abroad statement would not apply however, but it doesn't make any difference.

1052: 1805:

A couple of the references and bibliographic sources show pages in the xxx–xx format, while others are in xxx–xxx format.

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I'm not entirely clear what you're saying here; if it's that each time it's mentioned for the first time in a paragraph

638:

The MOS editors seem to change the preferred placement of citations more often than they change their underwear, but I

1219: 95: 72: 496:"As Milton considers" or something similar then. As I've said elsewhere, unattributed quotes are most unhelpful. 1824:

All very interesting, and I thank you for such an illuminating article: I hope these comments are of some use. –

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so isn't pure original research, and is nearer to the title the NG currently use but hopefully less confusing. ‑

375:

receive itals? If the painting was known as simply "Cleopatra" this should also feature in the parenthesis, no?

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There's no hard-and-fast rule on hyphenation in this case. Since the noun follows the adjective, it's not

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specifically concerns about the reactions of the uneducated lower classes to paintings on public display—

325:"Etty was the first British artist to specialise in the nude" -- At all other times he was fully clothed? 290:"with a few pieces of chalk crayons" -- who said this? Unattributed quotes, I find, are always unhelpful. 1829: 1771: 1211:: Image the article is about, putting it in the lead section is clearly OK. Copyright-wise, the painter 660: 610: 1658:, which is a valid translation of "Bacchanale devant une statue de Pan", has been used in at least one 1397:

It would be nice to have more emphasis on the unusualness of a Christian Bacchanal, sources permitting.

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And indeed you should. But the clarification you've made seems good enough without being too detailed.

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is a specific term of art for this type of painting, so I can't really get rid of it any further. ‑

1651: 1338: 1294: 541: 504: 407: 352: 275: 237: 1847: 1431:"It has been purchased by the Marquis of Stafford for 500 guineas. It will serve to accompany the 1869: 1473: 1419: 1307: 1274: 1193: 843: 828: 750: 203: 160: 1468:, I think this is about ready to promote so pls jump in ASAP if you have more comments. Cheers, 297:

Alexander Gilchrist—the reference seems to have been lost somewhere along the line, re-added. ‑

1717:

A. Should well respected be hyphenated (I have no idea on this, but it feels like it should be)

135:

Second paragraph: "...Archangel Michael, Michael ..."; can the immediate repetition be avoided?

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I've done some digging in the full catalogue, and there's no date given for the first use of

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has been dead for more than 100 years and thus his works are out of copyright (seems like

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Farr (writing in the 1950s) describes him as "one of the negro warriors first seen in the

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reading) would think "As of 1844" to be in error if not written in or soon after 1844. –

1846:

has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see

1530:(or the painting), so it might be worth making the connection and full name/linking him. 668: 578: 554: 536: 499: 402: 347: 270: 232: 1865: 1571:

is a newspaper? (I had to have a quick search to answer the question the name raised)

1547: 1469: 1189: 839: 824: 746: 184: 53: 1487:, although it would be nice at least to see the comment about the Poussin acted on. 1422:

to allow public access to his collection, which had many other subjects and artists.

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sources knocking about somewhere that prove it was on display earlier than that. ‑

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Other than the two versions shown here there's nothing to say about any of them;

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As with the above review, my comments are mainly in the way of small quibbles:

643:

punctuation, which I'm given to understand means the world coming to an end. ‑

1684:

be in this spot as it's more directly relevant to this particular work. Using

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who died in 1870. All these images are well and truly in the public domain. ‑

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These are all just very minor nit picks in another very interesting article.

568:

How about "the first British artist to specialise in paintings of nudes"? ‑

1650:

the National Gallery may think 99.9% of readers are not going to know what

1728:

to use a hyphen, so in the absence of any reason not to I've added one. ‑

763:

and in preliminary drawings the right-most…" which ought to address it. ‑

1341:

in 1816 (per: Wine, Humphrey, National Gallery Catalogues (new series):

1259:

File:Nicolas Poussin - Bacchanal before a Statue of Pan - WGA18284.jpg

1677:(as you have with the preliminary sketch and final version, below?) 433:

needs to be written out in full, I'd strongly disagree with that. ‑

39:

Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in

1761:

Are you sure? The guideline (and I know it's only a guideline) at

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and expectations of what Great Art was supposed to look like). ‑

1526:

You mention "Milton" without first name, link or connection to

963:

Yes, that works. This paragraph is tricky, as Adam's vision in

1188:

I think we just need the image licensing checked now. Cheers,

1265:

image. Image is discussed in a different section, seems like.

919:

material"; "portraits of unclothed males" (just suggestions).

1141:

An excellent short piece. I look forward to your responses.

894:

The words "in painting" in the second para seem unnecessary.

712:

all that has been written about the preparatory sketches is

1235:

died long enough ago that their works are out of copyright.

1158:: Happy with all responses, no further adjustments needed. 132:..."; could the second para perhaps be re-jigged slightly? 734:, on folded envelope, small sketches for this composition 553:. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank ( 1249:

File:Etty - The World Before the Flood (Southampton).jpg

1209:

File:Etty - The World Before the Flood (Southampton).jpg

967:

is of events which are in our past but in his future. ‑

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File:Hill & Adamson – William Etty at easel.jpg

838:

No further issues from my point of view. Thanks. --

1881:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. 1429:"Private" is verbatim from a contemporary source 1245:File:Etty - The World Before the Flood (York).jpg 1505:Sorry, thought I'd already added that. Added. ‑ 41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates 476:"grave" -- what do the quote marks add to this? 229:Great to see this here, reading through now... 43:. No further edits should be made to this page. 1537:Good point, have changed the first mention of 823:(assuming sensible responses to the above!) -- 806:Yes, you're right—that one slipped through. ‑ 386:, just various names by which it was known. ‑ 1887:No further edits should be made to this page. 1860:template in place on the talk page until the 29:The following is an archived discussion of a 8: 1269:I've capitalized some of the ALT text (also 446:No, that is not what I meant; for instance: 1694:is very much a last resort when two images 1637:A Bacchanalian Revel Before a Statue of Pan 1345:, 2001, National Gallery Publications Ltd, 452:A Bacchanalian Revel Before a Statue of Pan 18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates 1656:A Bacchanalian Revel Before a Term of Pan 1343:The Seventeenth Century French Paintings 1173:Thanks—sorry for the delay in replying ‑ 1110:find which has recently changed hands is 1680:No; in my view it's more important that 1022:or possibly climbing aboard the barge. 450:speaks of two paintings, this one, and 1270: 713: 605: 7: 454:. The next para then starts with: 373:The Arrival of Cleopatra in Cilicia 1644:A Bacchanalian Revel before a Term 202:- thanks for tweaking so quickly. 24: 1273:for some reason makes me laugh). 1271:Large number of semi-naked people 371:..." -- Should the shortening of 1801:References & bibliography 1178:19:42, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 1168:17:26, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 1151:22:18, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 1132:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 1093:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 1060:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 1004:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 972:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 939:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 907:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 877:16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 848:15:44, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 833:17:48, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 811:19:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 768:14:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC) 759:I've amended it to "In Etty's 755:22:49, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 741:19:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 673:16:43, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 648:19:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 623:19:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 583:19:29, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 573:19:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 546:18:07, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 522:08:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 509:21:54, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 488:19:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 438:19:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 412:21:54, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 391:19:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 357:21:54, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 315:08:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 302:19:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 280:22:00, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 259:19:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 242:17:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 215:15:21, 22 September 2016 (UTC) 195:15:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC) 172:11:10, 22 September 2016 (UTC) 109:17:10, 20 September 2016 (UTC) 86:17:10, 20 September 2016 (UTC) 1: 1405:put two and two together). ‑ 1337:in 1819 and exhibited in the 1053:1862 International Exhibition 367:"Following the exhibition of 1874:00:58, 31 October 2016 (UTC) 1834:09:38, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1817:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1790:15:54, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1776:12:28, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1753:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1733:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1704:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1667:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1624:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1604:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1583:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1567:Is it worth clarifying that 1556:10:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC) 1510:16:28, 30 October 2016 (UTC) 1497:11:49, 30 October 2016 (UTC) 1478:05:52, 30 October 2016 (UTC) 790:Please check my copyedit to 533:Up to here, more to come... 1855:featured article candidates 1460:00:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC) 1442:18:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC) 1410:18:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC) 1387:05:05, 7 October 2016 (UTC) 1365:18:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC) 1320:18:28, 5 October 2016 (UTC) 1302:17:33, 5 October 2016 (UTC) 1287:16:00, 5 October 2016 (UTC) 1198:22:11, 4 October 2016 (UTC) 114:Comments from Sagaciousphil 31:featured article nomination 1904: 1578:Added "local newspaper" ‑ 1049:The World Before the Flood 854:Comments from Brianboulton 431:The World Before the Flood 130:The World before the Flood 96:The World Before the Flood 73:The World Before the Flood 1518:Comments from the Bounder 1435:Titians of that nobleman" 64:) 00:58, 31 October 2016 1884:Please do not modify it. 1675:The Triumph of Cleopatra 990:I don't know—looking at 36:Please do not modify it. 1239:File:Etty Cleopatra.jpg 996:Genesis flood narrative 332:This was raised at the 225:Comments from Cassianto 128:Both paragraphs start " 679:Comments from Mirokado 667:are my edits. - Dank ( 93:It's fair to say that 1420:considerable trouble 1375:their basic web page 1113:A Bacchanalian Revel 1070:Reception: No issues 1652:Term (architecture) 1339:British Institution 1328:Comments by Johnbod 1295:David Octavius Hill 661:standard disclaimer 1233:Hill & Adamson 1220:PD-US-1923-abroad 456:"The painting..." 89: 81:Nominator(s): ‑ 1895: 1886: 1859: 1853: 1850:, and leave the 1693: 1687: 1224: 1218: 733: 732: 728: 723: 722: 718: 659:on prose per my 543: 539: 506: 502: 457: 449: 409: 405: 354: 350: 277: 273: 239: 235: 206: 189: 183: 163: 79: 48:The article was 38: 1903: 1902: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1891: 1882: 1857: 1851: 1691: 1685: 1660:academic source 1569:The Hull Packet 1520: 1330: 1222: 1216: 1205: 1186: 856: 730: 726: 725: 720: 716: 715: 681: 537: 535: 500: 498: 455: 447: 403: 401: 348: 346: 271: 269: 233: 231: 227: 204: 187: 181: 161: 116: 76: 34: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1901: 1899: 1890: 1889: 1877: 1876: 1864:goes through. 1822: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1807: 1806: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1793: 1792: 1779: 1778: 1756: 1755: 1743: 1742: 1738: 1737: 1736: 1735: 1719: 1718: 1711: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1689:multiple image 1671: 1670: 1669: 1635:Two points on 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1614: 1613: 1609: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1593: 1592: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1573: 1572: 1561: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1532: 1531: 1519: 1516: 1515: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1500: 1499: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1424: 1423: 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466: 460: 459: 441: 440: 424: 423: 419: 418: 417: 416: 415: 414: 394: 393: 377: 376: 364: 363: 362: 361: 360: 359: 339: 338: 327: 326: 322: 321: 320: 319: 318: 317: 305: 304: 292: 291: 287: 286: 285: 284: 283: 282: 262: 261: 249: 248: 226: 223: 222: 221: 220: 219: 218: 217: 157: 156: 147: 146: 137: 136: 133: 115: 112: 91: 90: 75: 70: 69: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1900: 1888: 1885: 1879: 1878: 1875: 1871: 1867: 1863: 1856: 1849: 1845: 1841: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1831: 1827: 1818: 1815: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1791: 1788: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1777: 1773: 1769: 1764: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1754: 1751: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1740: 1739: 1734: 1731: 1727: 1723: 1722: 1721: 1720: 1716: 1715: 1714: 1705: 1702: 1697: 1690: 1683: 1679: 1678: 1676: 1672: 1668: 1665: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1648: 1647: 1645: 1641: 1640: 1638: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1625: 1622: 1618: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1611: 1610: 1605: 1602: 1597: 1596: 1595: 1594: 1590: 1589: 1584: 1581: 1577: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1565: 1564: 1557: 1554: 1550: 1549: 1548:Paradise Lost 1544: 1540: 1539:Paradise Lost 1536: 1535: 1534: 1533: 1529: 1528:Paradise Lost 1525: 1524: 1523: 1517: 1511: 1508: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1501: 1498: 1494: 1490: 1486: 1483: 1479: 1475: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1462: 1461: 1457: 1453: 1449: 1448: 1443: 1440: 1436: 1434: 1428: 1427: 1426: 1425: 1421: 1417: 1416: 1411: 1408: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1396: 1395: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1376: 1372: 1371: 1370: 1369: 1366: 1363: 1358: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1351: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1336: 1332: 1331: 1327: 1321: 1317: 1316:contributions 1313: 1309: 1308:Jo-Jo Eumerus 1305: 1304: 1303: 1300: 1296: 1291: 1290: 1289: 1288: 1284: 1283:contributions 1280: 1276: 1275:Jo-Jo Eumerus 1272: 1264: 1260: 1257: 1254: 1250: 1246: 1243: 1240: 1237: 1234: 1230: 1227: 1221: 1214: 1210: 1207: 1206: 1202: 1200: 1199: 1195: 1191: 1183: 1179: 1176: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1165: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1152: 1148: 1144: 1133: 1130: 1125: 1124: 1119: 1115: 1114: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1100: 1099: 1094: 1091: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1072: 1069: 1068: 1061: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1039: 1038: 1032: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1013: 1012: 1005: 1002: 997: 993: 989: 988: 987: 986: 981: 980: 975: 973: 970: 966: 965:Paradise Lost 962: 961: 960: 959: 955: 954: 953: 952: 948: 947: 940: 937: 933: 929: 925: 924: 923: 922: 918: 914: 913: 908: 905: 900: 899: 898: 897: 893: 892: 891: 890: 886: 885: 878: 875: 870: 869: 868: 867: 866: 865: 861: 860: 859: 853: 849: 845: 841: 837: 836: 835: 834: 830: 826: 822: 812: 809: 805: 804: 803: 802: 801: 800: 795: 793: 792:The Athenaeum 788: 787: 785: 784: 781: 780: 769: 766: 762: 758: 757: 756: 752: 748: 744: 743: 742: 739: 735: 711: 707: 706: 705: 704: 703: 702: 697: 693: 692: 690: 689: 688:Composition: 686: 685: 684: 678: 674: 670: 666: 662: 658: 655: 654: 649: 646: 641: 637: 636: 635: 634: 630: 629: 624: 621: 617: 612: 611:up until 1959 608: 603: 599: 598: 597: 596: 592: 591: 584: 580: 576: 575: 574: 571: 567: 566: 565: 564: 560: 559: 558: 556: 552: 548: 547: 544: 542: 540: 523: 520: 516: 515: 514: 513: 510: 507: 505: 503: 495: 494: 493: 492: 489: 486: 482: 481: 480: 479: 475: 474: 464: 463: 462: 461: 453: 445: 444: 443: 442: 439: 436: 432: 428: 427: 426: 425: 421: 420: 413: 410: 408: 406: 398: 397: 396: 395: 392: 389: 385: 381: 380: 379: 378: 374: 370: 366: 365: 358: 355: 353: 351: 343: 342: 341: 340: 335: 331: 330: 329: 328: 324: 323: 316: 313: 309: 308: 307: 306: 303: 300: 296: 295: 294: 293: 289: 288: 281: 278: 276: 274: 266: 265: 264: 263: 260: 257: 253: 252: 251: 250: 246: 245: 244: 243: 240: 238: 236: 224: 216: 213: 212: 207: 205:SagaciousPhil 201: 198: 197: 196: 193: 186: 178: 177: 176: 175: 174: 173: 170: 169: 164: 162:SagaciousPhil 154: 153: 152: 151: 144: 143: 142: 141: 134: 131: 127: 126: 125: 124: 120: 113: 111: 110: 107: 103: 98: 97: 88: 87: 84: 78: 77: 74: 71: 68: 66: 63: 59: 55: 51: 44: 42: 37: 32: 27: 26: 19: 1883: 1880: 1840:Closing note 1839: 1823: 1800: 1725: 1712: 1695: 1681: 1674: 1655: 1643: 1636: 1631:Composition 1630: 1568: 1562: 1546: 1538: 1527: 1521: 1484: 1450:More later. 1432: 1360:Beaumont. ‑ 1342: 1268: 1262: 1252: 1213:William Etty 1203:Image review 1187: 1160:Brianboulton 1155: 1154: 1143:Brianboulton 1140: 1123:Flaming June 1121: 1117: 1111: 1048: 1030: 1014:Composition: 999:mistake.) ‑ 964: 916: 857: 820: 819: 791: 789: 786: 782: 709: 694: 691: 687: 682: 669:push to talk 656: 639: 601: 579:push to talk 555:push to talk 550: 549: 534: 532: 497: 451: 430: 400: 399:Ok, thanks. 383: 372: 368: 345: 334:Dawn of Love 333: 268: 230: 228: 210: 199: 167: 158: 149: 148: 139: 138: 129: 122: 121: 117: 94: 92: 80: 49: 47: 35: 28: 1826:The Bounder 1768:The Bounder 1699:Commons. ‑ 1563:Background 1543:John Milton 1120:long since 887:Background: 783:Reception: 102:John Taylor 1814:Iridescent 1787:Iridescent 1750:Iridescent 1730:Iridescent 1713:Footnotes 1701:Iridescent 1664:Iridescent 1621:Iridescent 1601:Iridescent 1580:Iridescent 1553:Iridescent 1507:Iridescent 1439:Iridescent 1407:Iridescent 1362:Iridescent 1350:185709283X 1335:Henry Bone 1299:Iridescent 1184:Coord note 1175:Iridescent 1129:Iridescent 1102:paragraph? 1090:Iridescent 1057:Iridescent 1001:Iridescent 969:Iridescent 936:Iridescent 904:Iridescent 874:Iridescent 808:Iridescent 765:Iridescent 761:oil sketch 738:Iridescent 645:Iridescent 620:Iridescent 600:The issue 570:Iridescent 519:Iridescent 485:Iridescent 435:Iridescent 388:Iridescent 312:Iridescent 299:Iridescent 256:Iridescent 192:Iridescent 106:Iridescent 83:Iridescent 1848:WP:FAC/ar 1844:candidate 1726:incorrect 1682:Cleopatra 1263:Cleopatra 1253:Cleopatra 1127:voice. ‑ 1031:Cleopatra 992:Genesis 6 710:literally 607:suspicion 538:Cassianto 501:Cassianto 404:Cassianto 384:Cleopatra 369:Cleopatra 349:Cassianto 272:Cassianto 234:Cassianto 140:Reception 1866:Ian Rose 1842:: This 1470:Ian Rose 1190:Ian Rose 949:Subject: 840:Mirokado 825:Mirokado 747:Mirokado 714:pencil 8 616:this guy 551:Comments 344:No? Ok. 54:Ian Rose 50:promoted 1763:WP:ASOF 1489:Johnbod 1485:Support 1466:Johnbod 1452:Johnbod 1433:private 1379:Johnbod 1156:Support 821:Support 657:Support 200:Support 123:Subject 1255:image. 1073:Legacy 930:work? 902:in. ‑ 150:Legacy 58:FACBot 1522:Lead 926:Does 665:These 640:think 337:read. 190:s. ‑ 16:< 1870:talk 1830:talk 1772:talk 1696:need 1551:. ‑ 1493:talk 1474:talk 1464:Hi, 1456:talk 1383:talk 1373:See 1347:ISBN 1312:talk 1279:talk 1247:and 1194:talk 1164:talk 1147:talk 1118:that 932:Nude 928:that 917:such 844:talk 829:talk 794:link 751:talk 618:. ‑ 211:Chat 185:asof 168:Chat 62:talk 56:via 1862:bot 1545:'s 1541:to 602:was 557:) 52:by 1872:) 1858:}} 1852:{{ 1832:) 1774:) 1692:}} 1686:{{ 1646:. 1639:: 1495:) 1476:) 1458:) 1385:) 1377:. 1352:). 1318:) 1314:, 1285:) 1281:, 1223:}} 1217:{{ 1196:) 1166:) 1149:) 846:) 831:) 753:) 724:×7 721:10 671:) 663:. 581:) 208:- 188:}} 182:{{ 165:- 67:. 33:. 1868:( 1828:( 1770:( 1491:( 1472:( 1454:( 1381:( 1310:( 1277:( 1192:( 1162:( 1145:( 842:( 827:( 749:( 731:5 729:⁄ 727:1 719:⁄ 717:9 458:. 60:(

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