1420:
immense mansion outside London was one of the first, and among the most influential, of
Campbell's Palladian designs." Not sure about the flowery wording here: "After the Stuart Restoration, the architectural landscape was dominated by the proponents of the more flamboyant English Baroque." So, a doublecheck that the lead is still in line with the body is needed. Another: "but its development was halted by the onset of the English Civil War" is not precisely what the body of the article says. Check flowery language in lead, eg, "to develop a new architectural style for the fledgling American Republic." I don't believe this is in the body, or cited, either: "while its inspirer is regularly cited as among the world’s most influential architects."
349:- We’ve moved from 38 citations (12 June) to 108 (and rising), and increased the number of book sources from 16 to 37. Every paragraph is now cited, I think! Where I couldn’t source a statement, e.g. Palladian adaptations to suit Northern European climates, I’ve removed it. I’ve also tried to standardise the referencing - although I may not of caught absolutely everything as I’ve been working with a referencing style that I’m not really comfortable with, far preferring {{sfn}}; added ISBNs/OCLCs, and split the footnotes from the references. While there’s certainly more that could be done, can you/the coordinators let me know if this is sufficient to take the article off the FAR list. Many thanks.
1651:"Based in Virginia, The Center for Palladian Studies in America, Inc. was founded as a non-profit in 1979 to research and promote understanding of Palladio's influence in the United States" - I'd recommend against using the organization's own materials to source it here, as a secondary source would be a better indicator of the organization being significant enough to mention here.
1963:
will be clearer than I on the horticultural difference between “flourished” and “blossomed”. I think it’s ok. It did flourish, albeit briefly, as the court architecture of James I and
Charles I. Then it died, as the pushy Baroque elbowed its way centre-stage. Then it blossomed again under Burlington.
566:
So much of Dublin was built in the 18th century that it set a
Georgian stamp on the city; however, due to poor planning and poverty, Dublin was until recently one of the few cities where fine 18th-century housing could be seen in ruinous condition. Elsewhere in Ireland, during and following the Irish
2152:
I’ve attempted to fine tune both the lead and the TFA blurb, to match the changes made to the article through what I think has been a very productive FAR. Thanks to all who contributed, and particularly to SandyGeorgia for her exceptionally detailed and helpful review. While there’s always something
1419:
a new note from me: there are some items left over in the lead that are not contained in the body of the article. The lead must summarize the article, and some of the text that has been removed from the article is still in the lead, and uncited. Please revisit the entire lead: one sample is "This
1391:
We wait for other Close without FARC (keep) declarations, or other reviews. Coords also like to hear whether involved (eg you) participants believe the article is now at standard (that is, you get to !vote). In the interim, you continue responding to any new queries (all of my stuff is done). Don't
1560:
The White House is more neoclassical than
Palladian, particularly the South façade, which closely resembles James Wyatt's 1790 design for Castle Coole, also in Ireland. Castle Coole is, in the words of the architectural commentator Gervase Jackson-Stops, "A culmination of the Palladian traditions,
221:
Seriously? If people miss that from their watchlist, who ever sees those? I certainly hadn't. Your previous post on talk there concluded "... If no one addresses the above soon, it might be submitted to WP:FAR. Is anyone willing to fix up this article? Z1720 (talk) 13:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)". You
2001:
That would probably work, although I suspect it didn't actually even come to widespread "prominence" then (I think prominence implies widespread?) ... would the wording I suggested above, at 19:31 21 July ... not work? Or at least provide a starting point for something more eloquent ... ??
1986:
Thanks for the ping. I'd rather not treat the word literally as a horticultural concept, because it isn't one. I thought hard about it, and I've been unable to capture in a single word something that would satisfy both of you. If you don't mind making it more than one word, I'll suggest:
964:
I am going to review this as if it was an FAC, although I will fix smaller concerns myself. Please note that I have no speciality in this area, so consider this a non-expert prose review. Anything that I think I can't fix, usually because I am unfamiliar with the topic, are listed below:
1144:"The most favoured among patrons was the four-volume Vitruvius Britannicus by Campbell. Campbell was both an architect and publisher. It was essentially a book containing architectural prints of British buildings, and inspired by the great architects from Vitruvius to Palladio;" -: -->
1901:, that what Jones originally introduced was widely popular, accepted, developed, and used? What eventually became widely popular developed later, as the style evolved somewhat from Palladio's original work. Perhaps recast the entire sentence to something along the lines of:
890:
Consistency? Add all, or remove all ? Why do we need "near
Charleston", when others aren't specified to cities? In Virginia and Carolina, the Palladian style is found in numerous Tidewater plantation houses, such as Stratford Hall, Westover Plantation and Drayton Hall near
2113:
I did it ... still feel that "flourished" is subtly wrong and misses Giano's earlier intent of "flowering" (grew, blossomed, died) ... we need some more declarations so the FAR Coords can wrap this up. We have only two formal declarations on the page, from Z1720 and me.
1514:
in the body, to match the mention in the lead. Palladio’s influence/reputation is mentioned, and cited, in the Legacy section. When (if?!) we finish the FAR, and the article’s stable, I’ll recheck the lead, and the TFA blurb, to make sure they are all consistent.
1897:... which began in 1642. It doesn't seem that what Jones introduced really had time to "flourish" and become fully accepted and developed; rather it died out somewhat quickly. Can we find a way to recast that thought to avoid implying, via
1145:"The most favoured among patrons was the four-volume Vitruvius Britannicus by Campbell, an architect and publisher. It contained architectural prints of British buildings, inspired by the great architects from Vitruvius to Palladio;"
1909:
I'm sure you can find a more eloquent way to address this, and we need not hold up the FAR over it, but perhaps this can be fine tuned? The original word was "flowered", implying something that briefly blossomed but quickly died.
1059:"in his hands the visual inheritance of Palladio's example became increasingly codified" in his hands feels like another idiom. Maybe, "his writing caused the visual inheritance of Palladio's example to become increasingly codified"
1584:- It's a bit tricky. Castle Coole is a transition between Palladianism and Neoclassicism, and the White House is definitely more the latter, but with elements of the former. I've tried to reword the para. to make this clearer.
942:
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I am nominating this featured article for review because there are numerous statements and paragraphs that are missing inline citations. Also, the "North
American Palladianism" section contains many one-sentence paragraphs.
1885:
These follow the great success of Jones's
Palladian designs for the Queen's House at Greenwich, the first English Palladian house, and the Banqueting House at Whitehall, the uncompleted royal palace in London of Charles
378:
Note re moving to FARC: Following KJP1's recent very impressive citation and content expansions, which I closely and happily followed, this is clearly about there. Without wanting to inhibit KJP1's parade, bravo.
2025:, but I'm pretty sure that it was considerably more than just a transient moment. The word "briefly" does limit it. I personally don't object to flowered or blossomed, or perhaps "emerged" could also work. --
1904:
English court architect Inigo Jones introduced
Palladian designs to England early in the 17th century, but his brief success, and the development of Palladianism, was halted by the onset of the English Civil
1820:
No, I won't be doing that (FARs), though I do review FACs and, you know, write stuff. Maybe you should try sticking with your FAR noms rather than heading for the hills and leaving Sandy to do all the work.
940:
I'm done; ping me when you are ready for me to revisit, and we can then expedite this up to the other FARsters (Z1720, Buidhe, and Hog Farm). Only new comments are in this section, with some stragglers at
2265:
and me, if I’m allowed a vote!, favouring Close. Is there anything we can do to wrap it up? I’m conscious it’s due on the main page next month and it would be good to know it’s ready to go. All the best.
1236:- I’ve added an OCLC to the Ruhl, good spot. However, I’m not seeing any other gaps. Are we talking of books, such as Summerson, where later editions have ISBNs, but the edition used predated them?
602:
It was called Inner City
Renewal, in the mid 60s, and again in late 70s & early 80s. They knocked all the (then tenement) houses and moved the people out to highrises in the outer suburbs. See
1218:
I skimmed through the article again and didn't notice other prose concerns. Some of the sources don't have ISBN numbers, though a Google search finds one. Should these be added to the references?
1776:
2172:
I think you'll go down in history for this one; bringing the article up to today's requirements, while still retaining Giano's spirit and voice. Exceptionally well done (kudos to Sandy also).
669:, I hope. You both right that it's not directly related to Palladianism, but it does give context to 18th-century architecture in Dublin. Have moved to a footnote, which I hope works for all.
21:
1377:- Sandy, apologies, I know you don’t like pings! Just so I’m clear, do we now wait for input from the other FAR reviewers? There’s nothing else I need to do in the interim? All the best.
284:
As you say, Hog Farm very properly notified article talk, to which section you added a month ago. But you did not update that section when you recently actually began the FAR. So, yes.
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410:
Fine man, I only meant to commend, there is abvs a lot more that could be added. Its fascinating stuff, although it get as a bit boring when you talk about the
American follies.
2153:
that can be further improved, I hope we’ve collectively done enough both to close out the FAR and allow for the article’s TFA appearance in August. And finally, thanks to
102:
1876:
Palladianism flourished briefly in England in the early 17th century, led by Inigo Jones, but its development was halted by the onset of the English Civil War.
816:
Is there no Palladianism in Canada, Mexico, or South America? That is, does this mean to say "in America", or "in the United States" or "in North America"?
270:. Typically, step 1 of an FAR does not require a notification to editor's talk pages. Is there anyone else that could have been done to make this clearer?
98:
1451:"is regularly cited as among the world’s most influential architects" - surely past tense, ie "as having been among the world’s most influential..."
44:
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Palladian designs advocated by Inigo Jones were too closely associated with the court of Charles I to survive the turmoil of the English Civil War.
1761:
Yes, without having followed all the ins and outs, I think a FARC is not needed. I wonder what plans Z1720 has for the rest of your summer, Sandy?
1708:, as none of these were really dealbreakers for me and its fairly obvious that minor improvements are going to continue even after the FAR closes.
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Johnbod, Z1720 amply carries their share of the load; we all try to pitch in for each other here at FAR, as everyone has the usual IRL issues.
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1187:- Many thanks, for these and for the review - greatly appreciated. Mainly actioned, but two queries. Can you let me know what you think.
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I don't think that it does. The issue is still highly emotive here and suspect was stuck in there...because TRUTH. Would remove claim.
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PS, if you are particularly worried (that is, travel or other commitments), you could ping the FAR Coords for an earlier look ...
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I'm genuinely unsure where to place it on the scale of "flourished" → "was a flash in the pan". I recognize the need to avoid
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If retained or rewritten, can "until recently" be defined more explictly? The source is 2005 ... through the 20th century ?
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As the lack of inline citations is the only grounds of concern, it should be a pretty simple fix. Will get on to it shortly.
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But where is that cited in the body? I'm concerned that, with all the changes in the body, the lead is no longer in sync.
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On a general note, we should only add an ISBN if that is to the version used (that is, corresponds to page numbers given).
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War of Independence and the subsequent civil war, very large numbers of country houses were abandoned to ruin or destroyed.
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suggestion, dropping the "briefly" ... Palladianism emerged in England in the early 17th century, ... need more opinions.
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I was about to question the CSHIHE source but am convinced by the defense of the source on the FAR talk. I think I'm at
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Better to review the lead sooner rather than later, else others will hesitate to declare a keep. The blurb needs work.
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worry that I don't like pings; now that I've sent their notifications to email only, they no longer make me crazy (er).
803:, "so that the Hammond-Harwood House remains the only pure and pristine example of direct modelling in modern America.
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in the lead, when it hadn't actually flourished, rather blossomed for a brief few decades before dying on the vine.
460:
is a cool (and in my experience very helpful) head and would like to get input from them. Also, of course from Nikki.
317:. The instructions do not require additional notices on the article's talk page. Nevertheless, I have added a notice
2157:, who began the article and whose writings on architectural subjects have contributed so much to Knowledge (XXG).
2099:
I think we’re in danger of getting hung up on a detail. I think flourished is fine, but if others prefer emerged…
2066:
If there wasn't any earlier Palladianism, I think that "emerged" without "briefly" would be an ideal solution. --
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That would help with adding time context (if there is a usable source), but how does it relate to Palladianism?
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I'm happy here, Z1720 has been through, and lengthy commentary, all addressed, is moved to the FAR talk page.
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Then it was superseded by the, very aggressive, Gothic Revival. Now it flourishes once more in a million
969:"Palladianism flowered briefly in England in the early 17th century," I think flowered is too much into
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article review/Palladian architecture/archive2#Comments from SandyGeorgia
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396:- Not at all! It’s good to see you and your support, here and at the article, is greatly appreciated.
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Perhaps anything removed as unsourced could be noted on the talk page, in case sources can be found.
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to let him know this looks ready for TFA, although the final FAR bookkeeping isn't yet in place.
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1563:- Is Castle Coole neoclassical or Palladian? The sentence seems to change track mid-way though.
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that can be definitively attributed to designs from I quattro libri dell'architettura are: ...
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1448:"flamboyant" is fine in this context; "flourished" also - both common terms in the literature
1871:, in trying to keep the lead in sync with the body, might we work further on the following?
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Done - by removal, it never quite fitted and I suspect was added by a drive-by editor.
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2043:(but readers may not understand the nuance that we now see), or we could use Trypto's
1987:"Palladianism briefly came to prominence in England...". (I'll keep watching here.) --
1445:"immense", "fledgling" - words are now gone, although a case could be made for immense
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Reiterate my Close without FARC, and Z1720 is also a Keep (above). Thank you KJP1!
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I added the feature article review template to the top of this article's talk page
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you should join me by nominating some FARs and reviewing some articles. ;)
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Nikkimaria usually goes through on Friday or Saturday ... not to worry.
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The only two houses in the United States from the English colonial period
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Shouldn't this have been notified to the article talk? Yes, it should.
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yet strictly neoclassical in its chaste ornament and noble austerity."
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My concerns are addressed, I have no more issues with this article.
1204:
These are my comments. Please ping when these have been reviewed.
759:. Can't find a source for "the only two" claim, so have reworded.
1002:"Reaction to Baroque set in" to clarify what the reaction was to?
43:
Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at
846:. Tweaked wording and added an independent cite from the
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Knowledge (XXG):Today's featured article/August 13, 2022
1728:- Thanks for the review and the support. Best regards.
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for all his work here. I think this can be closed now.
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apparently my previous comment wasn't formal enough.
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What a wonderful FAR collaboration. Thanks to all.
2080:
OK, if we don't hear from KJP1, I'll make that edit.
1001:"Reaction set in from the early 18th century," -: -->
572:
I'm missing how any of this relates to Palladianism.
683:Good call, now its out but in, which works for me.
1115:"but was never truly to the English taste," -: -->
2363:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
973:. Would developed or flourished be a better word?
813:An independent source should be used to cite this
264:this comment on the article talk page in May 2022
1601:- The rewording works for my simple brain. Tks.
1031:"Jefferson's Monticello residence in Virginia."?
1030:"Jefferson's own Monticello in Virginia." -: -->
1890:Those were all 1610s to 20-ish, correct? Then,
1626:I'm unconvinced of the direct relevance of fn 1
424:”American follies”! Don’t let Wetman hear you.
258:'s instructions) and the article was placed on
222:didn't think that should at least be updated??
47:. No further edits should be made to this page.
2369:No further edits should be made to this page.
2342:template in place on the talk page until the
33:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
45:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article review
1295:, wonderful and exhaustive work from KJP1.
502:Resolved issues beginning 28 June moved to
262:. I felt that I gave a second notice with
1177:. Please review and change if necessary.
203:was missed when I made this nomination?
134:Well, the last point was easily fixed!
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article review
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1126:- sort of! Again, see what you think?
1484:Its not, I was wilting flowers only.
484:All though its a clear pass from me.
7:
2039:We could go back to Giano's earlier
1777:Very Oldest unreviewed FAs looked at
1116:"but did not appeal to the English"?
531:Unresolved from the moved commentary
313:to the top of the article talk page
1798:I'll find ways to keep Sandy busy.
848:Society of Architectural Historians
2237:Support, Conform, Retain, Whatever
1293:Close without FARC (Keep featured)
103:WikiProject Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
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983:- "flourished" is indeed better.
2257:- Sandy, I think we’ve got you,
1173:I added ALT text to images per
1069:- sort of! See what you think?
810:I don't find that in the source
1933:we still have the problematic
1775:Trying to get the rest of the
1:
559:Irish Palladian architecture
1680:would be a better phrasing?
68:) 3:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
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836:22:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
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748:22:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
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679:10:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
635:14:03, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
616:13:49, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
598:22:40, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
552:09:53, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
525:19:58, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
494:00:37, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
470:15:18, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
452:13:26, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
434:11:35, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
420:10:25, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
406:10:21, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
389:09:54, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
374:19:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
359:08:39, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
331:13:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
294:13:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
280:13:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
232:13:08, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
213:12:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
180:17:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
158:11:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
144:02:00, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
129:18:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
2366:Please do not modify it.
1970:Sic transit gloria mundi
1779:; any help appreciated!
1510:I’ve added a mention of
99:WikiProject Architecture
40:Please do not modify it.
2337:featured article review
1558:Don't understand this:
35:featured article review
77:Palladian architecture
22:Palladian architecture
1678:British colonial rule
1440:have tweaked the lead
1633:Done - by removal.
243:I'm going to ping @
2261:, JohnBod, Ceoil,
1881:The article says:
1706:close without FARC
2326:removal candidate
170:, please handle.
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2322:Closing note
2321:
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2283:
2255:SandyGeorgia
2253:
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2218:Gog the Mild
2196:
2190:Gog the Mild
2151:
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1957:SandyGeorgia
1939:
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1375:SandyGeorgia
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823:
821:
801:this section
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501:
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345:
311:FAR template
117:
84:
53:
51:
39:
32:
891:Charleston.
260:WP:FARGIVEN
2348:Nikkimaria
2259:User:Z1720
2155:User:Giano
2068:Tryptofish
2027:Tryptofish
2023:WP:PEACOCK
1989:Tryptofish
1966:McMansions
1935:flourished
458:User:Z1720
168:User:Z1720
111:2022-05-30
107:2021-03-07
85:Notified:
58:Nikkimaria
2328:has been
1866:Remaining
971:MOS:IDIOM
671:User:KJP1
268:this edit
2324:: This
2041:flowered
1899:flourish
1726:Hog Farm
1710:Hog Farm
1319:Hog Farm
916:Struck,
864:Struck,
773:Struck,
697:Struck,
604:Ballymun
87:Bishonen
20: |
2306:Georgia
2287:Georgia
2241:Johnbod
2200:Georgia
2120:Georgia
2086:Georgia
2053:Georgia
2045:emerged
2008:Georgia
1943:Georgia
1916:Georgia
1841:Georgia
1823:Johnbod
1802:Johnbod
1785:Georgia
1763:Johnbod
1748:Georgia
1535:Georgia
1471:Georgia
1426:Georgia
1398:Georgia
1361:Georgia
1347:Johnbod
1329:Georgia
1301:Georgia
1256:Georgia
1175:MOS:ALT
951:Georgia
922:Georgia
870:Georgia
827:Georgia
779:Georgia
739:Georgia
703:Georgia
626:Georgia
589:Georgia
543:Georgia
516:Georgia
444:Johnbod
366:Johnbod
301:Johnbod
286:Johnbod
239:Johnbod
224:Johnbod
191:Johnbod
172:Johnbod
136:Johnbod
1687:Done.
1315:Buidhe
533:is at
307:WP:FAR
256:WP:FAR
201:WP:FAR
95:Wetman
62:FACBot
2303:Sandy
2284:Sandy
2197:Sandy
2174:Ceoil
2117:Sandy
2083:Sandy
2050:Sandy
2005:Sandy
1940:Sandy
1913:Sandy
1838:Sandy
1808:Z1720
1782:Sandy
1745:Sandy
1603:Ceoil
1582:Ceoil
1565:Ceoil
1532:Sandy
1486:Ceoil
1468:Sandy
1453:Ceoil
1423:Sandy
1395:Sandy
1358:Sandy
1351:Ceoil
1326:Sandy
1298:Sandy
1274:Z1720
1253:Sandy
1234:Z1720
1220:Z1720
1206:Z1720
1185:Z1720
948:Sandy
919:Sandy
867:Sandy
824:Sandy
776:Sandy
736:Sandy
700:Sandy
685:Ceoil
641:Ceoil
623:Sandy
608:Ceoil
586:Sandy
579:Ceoil
540:Sandy
513:Sandy
486:Ceoil
462:Ceoil
412:Ceoil
394:Ceoil
381:Ceoil
347:Z1720
323:Z1720
272:Z1720
205:Z1720
121:Z1720
16:<
2352:talk
2330:kept
2311:Talk
2292:Talk
2272:talk
2268:KJP1
2245:talk
2222:talk
2205:Talk
2178:talk
2163:talk
2159:KJP1
2125:Talk
2105:talk
2101:KJP1
2091:Talk
2072:talk
2058:Talk
2031:talk
2013:Talk
1993:talk
1978:talk
1974:KJP1
1948:Talk
1931:KJP1
1921:Talk
1905:War.
1869:KJP1
1846:Talk
1827:talk
1812:talk
1790:Talk
1767:talk
1753:Talk
1734:talk
1730:KJP1
1715:Talk
1693:talk
1689:KJP1
1664:talk
1660:KJP1
1639:talk
1635:KJP1
1607:talk
1599:KJP1
1590:talk
1586:KJP1
1569:talk
1540:Talk
1521:talk
1517:KJP1
1490:talk
1476:Talk
1457:talk
1431:Talk
1417:KJP1
1403:Talk
1383:talk
1379:KJP1
1366:Talk
1349:and
1334:Talk
1317:and
1306:Talk
1278:talk
1270:Keep
1261:Talk
1242:talk
1238:KJP1
1224:talk
1210:talk
1193:talk
1189:KJP1
1161:talk
1157:KJP1
1153:Done
1132:talk
1128:KJP1
1124:Done
1103:talk
1099:KJP1
1095:Done
1075:talk
1071:KJP1
1067:Done
1047:talk
1043:KJP1
1039:Done
1018:talk
1014:KJP1
1010:Done
989:talk
985:KJP1
981:Done
956:Talk
927:Talk
908:talk
904:KJP1
900:Done
875:Talk
856:talk
852:KJP1
844:Done
832:Talk
784:Talk
765:talk
761:KJP1
757:Done
744:Talk
708:Talk
689:talk
675:Talk
667:Done
645:talk
631:Talk
612:talk
594:Talk
548:Talk
521:Talk
490:talk
466:talk
448:talk
440:KJP1
430:talk
426:KJP1
416:talk
402:talk
398:KJP1
385:talk
370:talk
355:talk
351:KJP1
327:talk
290:talk
276:talk
228:talk
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