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dozens in a parish/district. I would appreciate guidance about whether plain black text can be used instead of red links? I feel they all need to be included for the list to be comprehensive, but I've never seen any discussion about whether all scheduled monuments are inherently notable and therefore should have articles, however many of these would be stubs as the only source is the
English Heritage listing as they have never been explored in any detail. A sample statement from a scheduling document " The bowl barrow 110m south west of Spittle Pond Cottages survives well and will contain archaeological remains and environmental evidence relating to the monument and the landscape in which it was constructed." - so we know it exists however it is the potential for archeological evidence which means it is scheduled. For many of the
903:
links to the red links you create and if the red links you create are unlikely search terms (first is objective, second is purely subjective, granted) then it's probably a black link for me. Just to be clear, I won't oppose the nomination whichever way you go, but it's certainly worth a centralised discussion I suppose, for the listed buildings and monuments that have no articles yet have no chance of ever being found because of the obscurity of their official names....
527:"Stoke sub Hamdon Priory was formed in 1304 as a chantry college rather than a priory." I found this - and the full entry below - confusing. It says below secular college, but neither word is used in the usual modern sense. Looking at the EH entry, secular means priests in the community as opposed to monks in a monastery, and college in this case means a group of secular priests attached to a chantry chapel. A clearer explanation would be helpful.
219:, but I'm not sure which column are you seeing as skinny? If its the "Notes" column it is wide on my screen (I use large monitors). The width of the columns is not set & (I presume) autoformatted depending on your monitor. When I started this set of lists I was asked to add in the notes column, rather than make the reader go to the article for more info.—
571:"Bruton Abbey was originally founded as a Benedictine priory by Algar, Earl of Cornwall in about 1005." This is dubious. Pastscape says: "According to Leland, it was formerly a Benedictine Monastery founded circa 1005, but there is no mention of such in the Domesday Survey." Algar, Earl of Cornwall does not sound like an early 11C title.
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Yes I do on those too but they're not so bad because a lot of the summaries are shorter. This stands out more as more of the entries have longer summaries. 20% set I think would really look better if you're going to have more than a couple with some sentences, especially as a lot of readers will have
333:
880:
I will continue to look at the red links and try to ensure that they point to something which would be used for a wp article however, where they are something like "Bowl barrow 110 m south west of
Spittle Pond Cottages" it is difficult as the article needs to include "bowl barrow" and there may be
652:
may have held (or claimed) other titles & could possibly be the person concerned. There may also be some confusion based on: "The Laud
Chronicle (E) — 1048 "And then Odda was appointed earl over Devon, and over Somerset, and over Dorset, and over Cornwall; and Aelfgar, earl Leofric's son, was
921:
I have made some into black links (mostly obscure barrows) where I don't think they would meet notability. In other cases (particularly deserted medieval villages and roman house earthworks) I have added something to the village article & directed the link from the title to that article. I'm
902:
Hi Rod, thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't have a clear answer. I understand that there's an inherent notability to those items in the list without an article, and I understand that you're using the "official" titles of the items, but it seems to me that, at a first guess, if nothing
926:
and will do a few others where they are clearly notable enough to have their own article (still red on the list). There have been previous discussions about listed buildings & the consensus seemed to be that Grade I & Grade II* are definately notable in their own right because of their
117:
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have an image. If they're notable enough for images they should have an article. There's really no excuse for a list like this to have so few linked articles. It's also unlikely that the names you've given to the redlinked articles will be those we would
1222:
Incidentally, nice to see a practical approach to some of the monuments, I don't suppose that even many inclusionists would agree that we need an article about a "A bowl barrow approximately 16 metres (52 ft) in diameter and 3 metres (9.8 ft) high."
716:"Bowl barrow known as `Wimble Toot'" Shown as Bronze Age even though latest research suggests it is Norman. "The interpretation of the site's original purpose has changed over time." This sentence is superfluous. Repetition of "originally".
1306:
goes through. As to the proposed discussion on the contents, which was mooted earlier today, I suggest the FLC page would be a good place to go in the first instance, with notifications in the appropriate projects. Cheers -
361:
Looks like there is no real solution to this one at the moment, not really a sticking point for the promotion of this list. May be worth discussing this on a wider forum to see if anyone has any ideas how to improve things.
88:
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about the advantages of red links, but would welcome further discussion or guidance here as several of the other list of scheduled monuments I am working on have even higher proportions of red links.—
75:
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says "About the year 1005 a monastery was founded here by Algar, Earl of
Cornwall, for monks of the Benedictine order, which was subsequently converted into a Dominican priory by William do Mohun."
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Forcing the width at 20% would make the column narrower on my setup, where it currently occupies about 25% of the width of the table. In any case, I don't think this a a FL issue.
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etc all we have is dimensions and this would not make a full article. Does the fact that a photograph has been taken of the site increase its notability? I was interested in the
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mentions Earl Ælfgar in association with manors in
Somerset. I think it is verifiable in its current form, but would welcome further comment. One last thought is that
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to see if others with interests in the same areas see them all as inherently notable, simply because
English Heritage has advised the minister to scheduled them.—
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Hamdon Hill camp. I think it should be made clear that the evidence of mesolithic and neolithic occupation pre-dates the camp and has nothing to do with it.
473:"Muchelney Abbey, which was founded in the 7th or 8th century," The source says 762. In the full entry below you have date as 12-16C, and 7C in the text.
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547:"Cary Castle was built either by Walter of Douai or by his son Robert." Perhaps worth saying around 1100 - presumably it was definitely pre-Anarchy.
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recognised historical or architectural interest - Grade II to be dealt with on an individual basis. I will start a discussion on the talk page of
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is very unlikely as he died in 1061 and with the life expectancy then he can hardly have been old enough to found an abbey in 1005. It could be
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The mentions of Algar all seem to be 19C sources, including BH online. I doubt whether the earldom of
Cornwall existed before the Conquest and
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as I'm not aware of any other discussion forum for list layout issues - the MOS & tables guidance don't seem to help as far as I can see.—
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948:"The most recent monuments include the Round House, a village lock-up in Castle Cary dating from 1779." seems like an incomplete sentence...
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17:
1244:. There is at least one inconsistent date in the refs, so it may be worth just checking to make sure they are all formatted correctly. –
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who was ealdorman of the western provinces (south-west
England) from 1005, but there is no source for this. According to Pastscape at
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814:
Thanks again for spotting these. Further advice or discussion on the
Muchelney Abbey and Bruton Abbey issues would be helpful.—
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template, which gives you the non-breaking spaces for free (I think) and will allow non-Imperial unit readers to understand.
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I think this is because of a foundation around 762, however the surviving buildings are largely 15th century (according to
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says thought to be founded 762 and remains of 8C church have been found. I think you can say 8C - definitely not 7th.
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which has 3 supports & I used the same here. Would you like to look at the ones I'm currently adding notes to (
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I can find lots more sources for Algar of
Cornwal - although it appears there may be some debate about his title.
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On my monitor the notes column has a new line for every two or three words, making it look stretched vertically.♦
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the 1005 date is from Leland, who is 16th century. I would cite Pastscape and say 12C but possibly pre-Conquest.
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352:) where I'm adding notes but they don't yet show. I'd appreciate some further guidance on the best way forward.—
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says "ALGER Earl of Cornwall, AD 1046 founded the abbey of Bruton. There seem to have been several people named
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says the same. You could say may have existed before the Conquest, but I don't think anything more definite.
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Knowledge (XXG):Featured list candidates/List of Scheduled Monuments in Bath and North East Somerset/archive1
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We could try setting the width of the column (perhaps 20%) but can you tell me if you get the same effect on
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this is the next in the series (the third of seven), using the same format. As with the others it includes
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Concerned that, what, 49 of the 69 items don't have an article, particularly when some of those actually
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Revised & I've put the date as Bronze Age or Norman as I think the jury is still out on this one.—
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I have the same as Dr. Blofeld and also have to scroll table right/left as too wide as it stands.
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I have reorded this (and shortened it in the light of the column width discussion above).—
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I was asked to add the notes column & did this (& it passed FL). I did the same on
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given the earldom which Harold had had." I don't really know where else to go with this.—
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Setting the column width doesn't seem to make any difference - this may be because of
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Minor point on ref 3 the "retrieved" needs capitalising as per other references.
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I've standardised on hillfort for consistency as bot seem equally acceptable.—
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Featured list candidates/List of Scheduled Monuments in South Somerset/archive1
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C of "Norman Conquest" appears to be no longer capitalised by Knowledge (XXG).
198:. Looks very good but does the column with the info in have to be so skinny?♦
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I've revised as you suggested. Help with ensuring the actual article at
1288:, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see
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I found one of these & fixed - are there any others I can't see?—
1086:".5 metres" dunno, but I usually expect a leading 0 here in Brit Eng.
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in the 10th & 11th centuries & other variations on the name.
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I've fixed a few using a script. Are there any others I've missed?—
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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Removed (and I will do it on the other 6 where I have used this).—
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I've added "late 11th or early 12th century" as that is what the
453:"current legislation" - this is recentism, which is frowned on.
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to more recent times, including photographs where available.—
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Hillfort 475m south of Howley Farm. Repetition of univallate.
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Op-ed in Signpost - Red links, blue links, and erythrophobia
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The final item "Village Cross" is out of alphabetical order.
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says - I don't there is any better evidence for the date.—
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List of Scheduled Monuments in Bath and North East Somerset
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List of Scheduled Monuments in Bath and North East Somerset
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Use non-breaking spaces between values and their units.
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1106:"earthworks within the" consistency: "Earthworks..."
666:The sources for Algar are all very old and not RS.
1324:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1154:OK I didn't know that had changed, now revised.—
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1330:No further edits should be made to this page.
1302:template in place on the talk page until the
378:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured list candidates
72:List of Scheduled Monuments in South Somerset
65:List of Scheduled Monuments in South Somerset
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured list candidates
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
1003:Again I hope I've caught all of these now.—
695:reflects the sources would be appreciated.—
593:has it founded in 1142, which is strange as
350:List of Scheduled Monuments in West Somerset
249:List of Scheduled Monuments in Taunton Deane
174:List of Scheduled Monuments in Taunton Deane
595:this one (also from British History online)
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796:Another first rate list. A few nit-picks.
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1046:"`Wimble Toot'" non-matching apostrophes.
972:Our article capitalises Monasteries for
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346:List of Scheduled Monuments in Sedgemoor
342:List of Scheduled Monuments in Sedgemoor
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured list candidates
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376:Agreed. Shall I start a discussion at
1167:"motte and bailey" needs hyphenation.
1016:(Ballands Castle) Consider using the
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510:Revised to "probably" 8th century.—
276:Template:EH listed building header
24:
974:Dissolution of the Monasteries
1:
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983:Hope I've caught these now.—
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224:21:06, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
207:20:54, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
261:smaller screens or phones.♦
189:17:26, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
161:17:26, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
1317:21:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
1266:09:11, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
1254:22:53, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
1233:21:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
1217:20:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
857:20:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
440:11:43, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
385:21:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
372:21:09, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
168:Following the promotion of
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1066:"hillfort" or "hill fort"?
278:. Asking for help there.—
1327:Please do not modify it.
1297:featured list candidates
172:to FL and nomination of
36:Please do not modify it.
31:featured list nomination
847:Resolved comments from
646:This recent book (2011)
431:Looks good to me now.♦
668:Ælfgar, Earl of Mercia
650:Ælfgar, Earl of Mercia
56:21:20, 4 January 2015
1174:Hopefully all done.—
922:currently working on
634:This book (from 1769)
332:I'm now confused. On
1207:an excellent list.
1126:"a six pipe" -: -->
581:has Algar, as does
178:scheduled monuments
929:Scheduled monument
672:Æthelmær the Stout
597:does have Algar.—
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905:The Rambling Man
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417:Thanks. Fixed.—
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829:. A fine list.
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1278:Closing note
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1127:"a six-pipe"
883:bowl barrows
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831:Dudley Miles
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693:Bruton Abbey
679:Dudley Miles
642:Gazeter 1868
616:Dudley Miles
587:this website
494:Dudley Miles
489:Pastcape at
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306:Andy's edits
302:Talk to Andy
293:Andy Mabbett
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139:Citation bot
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957:Duck decoys
579:This source
435:Dr. Blofeld
265:Dr. Blofeld
234:Dr. Blofeld
202:Dr. Blofeld
1053:Revised.—
763:Revised.—
743:Revised.—
215:I've done
1290:WP:FLC/ar
1284:has been
1282:candidate
583:this book
247:&/or
182:Neolithic
180:from the
1309:SchroCat
1286:promoted
1280:: This
1246:SchroCat
1093:Added.—
864:Comments
783:Moved.—
591:This one
448:Comments
134:Analysis
54:SchroCat
50:promoted
1242:Comment
1205:Support
1134:Done.—
1021:convert
873:use....
827:Support
429:Support
401:Keith D
364:Keith D
320:Keith D
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
638:Ælfgar
348:&
93:delete
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1313:talk
1250:talk
1229:talk
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76:edit
1304:bot
1263:Rod
1176:Rod
1156:Rod
1136:Rod
1115:Rod
1095:Rod
1075:Rod
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1035:Rod
1005:Rod
985:Rod
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959:.—
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512:Rod
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382:Rod
354:Rod
300:);
280:Rod
253:Rod
251:?—
221:Rod
186:Rod
158:Rod
52:by
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