1437:
content that actively changed in the style of a magazine - the evidence being some portals were set up with content under headings like "October 2007." I'd argue the current function of portals has changed: portals now highlight good and featured content in a particular topic area, along with providing an alternative way of navigating the content within that topic area. I was disappointed when a particular portal was deleted several months ago because it was very well done and highlighted all of the work that had been put in to a relatively narrow section of the encyclopaedia. It hadn't been maintained in years, but it hadn't broken, and nothing really needed to be maintained. I also sympathise with the "kangaroo court" argument - since we aren't arguing within any guidelines here, there's no "statutes" we can fall back on, so instead of simplifying the argument (I think all we really need to be discussing is: does the topic have enough good/featured content (featured GA/FAs, associated WikiProject(s)), and, perhaps, will someone update the content when a new good/featured article is added?) we get drawn into long tangents based on personal interpretations of which nonexistent rules apply.
1299:
spent most of this year devoting their energies to opposing the deletion first of TTH's tsunami of portalspam, and then of almost-unviewed, abandoned junk portals. So there are no consensus-based guidelines for portals in general and the apathy at the WikiProject means that there is no reason toe expect a consensus to be developed there.
52:. While the mid-stream bundling of these two MFDs made it infinitely more difficult to gauge overall consensus, there is still a reasonably clear consensus that these two portals cover a relatively narrow topic, and had been practically abandoned prior to the MFD, serving incorrect information to readers for years.
445:, like an article is, since they are for navigation instead. It is therefore improper to use rationales meant for keeping articles to argue that this failed navigation device should be kept. There is no reason to think that hoped-for improvements and long-term maintenance will ever materialize anyway,
882:
was ten years ago, in 2009, so it's misleading to cite that as current. The review itself is worth examining; like all FP reviews, it's devoid of any structured assessment against a checklist of criteria, and it's mostly about formatting. Every GA review I have been through has been massively more
1479:
But to the rest of SF's post, it seems to be advocating the view that a selection of articles made a decade ago is fine. It's actually very rare for an topic areas's coverage no to have changed substantially over a decade, and I don't see the point of a selection made before all that development.
1706:
can be explained for several reasons. First, portals contain no gold or silver. Second, the images are partially clothed, neither properly nude nor fully dressed, and clothed (including partially clothed) statues cannot be disfigured in the usual manners (for male and female statues). Besides,
1408:
I am just interested in whether there is a group of people who have volunteered to do the work on an ongoing basis. They may indicate that by a making a commitment somewhere, or just by doing the work on a sustained basis … but either way there is no compulsion. We just need some sound reason to
1298:
As to what material changes would help, I could give you my own personal views on that, but they would only be my personal view. There are no consensus guidelines on what portals should contain, and instead of making proposals for RFC now what portals should contain, the portal enthusiasts have
1682:
These
Portals are therefore “rationally abandoned” by editors, WProject editors, and readers (and even vandals), in favour of superior WP alternatives. Because of this, these Portals are unlikely to recover from that situation, and “band-aid” solutions based on nostalgia for what this redundant
1561:
Your comparison with AFD is misplaced, because articles are content, but this is not an article. It is a portal, which is a type of navigational devoice. No content will be lost if this portal is deleted. That's why this discussion doesn't operate like AFD, just like CFD and TFD and RFD don't
1436:
The issue with that argument is it's self-executing. If a portal had active maintainers, the portal either wouldn't be nominated for deletion or would be kept at MfD. The nature of "maintenance" has changed considerably from when portals were introduced, when it was foreseen portals would have
791:
and the link-preview and navbox features of that article mean zero value is added by this portal. The fact it had many errors when not being scrutinized at MfD, errors pointed out by the nominator, suggest that more such errors will crop up down the road. There is no policy or guideline which
457:
a consensus to keep all portals. Content forks are worthless, since they go out of date, preserve old and inferior versions of article content, add pointlessly to the maintenance burden, and are vandalism magnets; therefore they should not be saved. I support replacement of links rather than
1768:. These long abandoned portals are both complete crud and the abysmal state for many years is hard evidence that neither topic is broad enough to attract readers or maintainers. These failed navigation devices are just a distraction from focusing on content (which exists only in articles).
1086:
may be a broad topic, but it's clear that no one wants to maintain a portal on it. It's clear that the tide has turned against the necessity for portals in
Knowledge (XXG) unless someone is willing to keep them active and functional, and there is no evidence that this is being done.
804:
a consensus to keep all portals. Content forks are worthless, since they go out of date, preserve old and inferior versions of article content, add pointlessly to the maintenance burden, and are vandalism magnets; therefore they should not be saved. I suggest replacement of links to
796:, like an article is, since they are for navigation instead. It is therefore improper to use rationales meant for keeping articles to argue that this failed navigation device should be kept. Simple assertions that the topic is broad enough are entirely subjective; rather, that it is
1670:
a. For content, both Main
Articles give a far better, larger/comprehensive (both Main Articles are extensive), structured read (with mouseovers), that are actively monitored and heavily edited (the NBA Main Article has had to be protected, but vandals completely ignore the NBA
264:
123:
1251:
I fixed the errors indentified in the NBA portal nomination. I am willing to help enhance things, but I do not see clear guidelines on what remains deficient. While the input from all has been sincere, honestly, the discussion has had the feel of a kangaroo court.
1285:, and the only post-2010 hits are notices of deletion discussions. Portals need multiple maintainers to avoid key man syndrome, and WikiProject support is the best way of achieving that, but it's not available here. So I see no basis for sustaining the portal.
390:, basketball is a great topic for a portal, focused enough but with a wide selection of articles. The problems with Selected articles about BLPs need to be fixed, but that can be easily done by automated transclusion, and if someone fixes them, this
1386:
Re: NOTCOMPULSORY, you and others have stated the need for maintainers, which seemed (to me) like sign ups were needed here now to avoid deletion. I'm not a portal deletion discussion regular, so perhaps that's par for the course.
117:
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No policy- or guideline-based arguments to delete. It also doesn't seem common sense/IAR to delete to this non-portal regular. An essay which organizes the deletion thoughts would perhaps be a helpful reference to
1554:
you have taken my words out of context. Pages don't usually get nominated for deletion unless there is a perceived problem, and they don't get deleted unless there is consensus to deleted. That is true of all
1009:
Originated 2008 by sporadic editor who last edited April 2019. Articles content-forked between 2009 and 2011. No material updates since 2011; some edits through 2017, and a few cosmetic edits Sep 2019.
1200:
that has a maintainer and a maintenance plan and does not use content-forked subpages (which rot). Neither has a large number of articles. Neither is being maintained or is about to be maintained.
1412:
It have seen this sort of response a few times before, and I am always surprised by it. I don't see how some editors translate "there needs to be regular maintainers" into "you must do the work". --
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per nominator, per the delete votes above, and per the fact that there is no good reason to keep such a portal as this. Low page views (26 per day in the last 3 months, compared to 4,483 for
149:
1558:
You then tried to apply general comment about the operation of XFDs to the applicability of one particular deletion rationale. That's a different issues, and a misapplication of my words.
731:
Errors have been addressed. "Four never-updated entries" is a red herring, unless there is something out-of-date. This portal is on my watchlist, and I've removed vandalism in the past,
1274:
141:
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My intent (as a portal novice) was to put the various perspectives into proper context, not to manipulate. Your latest comments regarding content and navigation were helpful. Alas,
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per nominator and per the fact that there is no good reason to keep such a portal as this. Relatively low page views (56 per day in the last 3 months, compared with 4,043 for
1052:- The above are some measurements and notes on these two basketball portals. Since they were nominated at the same time and there is cross-discussion, I have bundled them.
1531:
An article should be assessed based on whether it has a realistic potential for expansion, not how frequently it has been edited to date. Remember that there is no deadline.
1683:
technology was once meant to be, will be wasted effort as these
Portals will need to be deleted one way or another to avoid obvious longer-term content forking issues.
1476:
I am glad that SF agrees that a portal needs an associated WikiProject, because many of the portals coming to MFD have no WikiProject which takes any interest in them.
1358:
As to policies and guidelines, that's what I am used to as well. But sadly the broad consensus-building processes required to create them have never been a forte of
1677:
c. Finally, for a directory of topic FA/GA articles, the WikiProject
Basketball and WikiProject National Basketball Association have a full non-POV’ed directories.
1674:
b. For navigation, the detailed
Navboxes on the two Main Articles are also far better, and by being transcluded to many articles, are also kept more up to date.
449:
if promised or done at the last minute just to stave off deletion. Simple assertions that the topic is broad enough are entirely subjective; rather, that it is
202:
1663:. Their complete abandonment, for years now, provide good case studies of why WP Portals are technologically redundant to other superior WP options/tools.
499:
Neglected portal. Page was kept at MfD in 2011 where one very myopic editor claimed "maintenance is never required, but optional like articles." Eleven
883:
thorough that that supposed "Featured" status review. So I wouldn't have given much weight to that FP review even when it happened ten years ago. --
441:
and the condition it is in mean zero value is added by such a portal. There is no policy or guideline which suggests this portal should exist. Portals
1306:. The principle that portals need an active team of maintainers and ongoing WikiProject support is well-established, in many hundreds of MFDs. --
94:
1217:
both, per nominator and per
Crossroads. Nobody wats to maintain ether portals, and see no sign of interest from the respective WikiProjects. -
583:
remove the backlinks? I have an AWB setup which allows me to easily replace them with links to the next most specific portal(s) (in this case
316:
remove the backlinks? I have an AWB setup which allows me to easily replace them with links to the next most specific portal(s) (in this case
1576:
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becomes unconditional. (BLPs and other articles that easily go out of date need to use automation or require a lot of attention otherwise). —
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1069:- By the way, the percent figure, which is misplaced but is not very important, is the ratio of portal page views to article page views.
17:
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It's like saying that museum or art gallery can set up its displays the day it opens its door and keep the same displays for ever.
1105:
This statement on the NBA portal (perhaps on the
Basketball one too) is inaccurate. The portal is composed of multiple subpages.
374:: the portal was never completed, it's easier to start from scratch. For the little I know about basketball, with three items at
145:
1175:
per lack of maintenance and low page views. No point in keeping portals in which neither readers nor editors are interested in.
785:
1273:
the narrow scope (a single sport in one country) can't be fixed by editing. Nor can the near-total lack of interest from the
800:
broad enough is demonstrated by the lack of pageviews and maintenance. The community's consensus not to delete all portals is
453:
broad enough is demonstrated by the lack of pageviews and maintenance. The community's consensus not to delete all portals is
1731:: Last sentence is sublime, however, probably not appropriate to have such wit (regardless of its skill level) here? Thanks.
1533:
As I stated earlier, I'm not a portal deletion discussion regular. Right or wrong, however, this is not operating like AfDs.—
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list minutiae about the team's history, but nothing about winning five division titles and a championship over six years.
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1469:. That's a really weird argument. It's basically "if there's no problem, the page won't be deleted". That applies to
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left the Miami Heat in 2013 to coach that same team. He then left the Heat this year to coach the
Michigan Wolverines.
1129:- Updates to DYKs are not material updates. DYKs are not a material feature of portals, just a device for providing
205:
article is ostensibly GA class, but fails to explain that the rivalry has been dead for six years. So does the entry.
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This discussion began on 15 Oct, but Portal:National
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believe that the portal will be maintained on an ongoing basis, and that it won't be dependent on one individual.
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If a portal had active maintainers, the portal either wouldn't be nominated for deletion or would be kept at MfD
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Basketball is a topic which is broad enough to sustain a portal, and the problems can be easily remedied.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below.
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Fair enough, there's plenty of content here, valid sub-portal from Basketball, willing to change to
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Keep Portal:Basketball also (I already !voted keep on Portal:NBA before that mid-process bundling)
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we get drawn into long tangents based on personal interpretations of which nonexistent rules apply
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bundling these nominations into one nomination, since they are being discussed at the same time.
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809:(not Portal:Basketball, given its MfD) rather than redirection, to avoid surprising our readers.
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association (2nd nomination)
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process was discontinued in March 2017, a year after its last review, so all we have now is
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No material updates since 2011; some edits through 2017, and a few cosmetic edits Sep 2019.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's
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If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a candidate for AfD.
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Originator inactive since 2009. Last maintenance (as of 16Oct19) appears to be 2014.
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1487:, very few portals even try to do that. They are overwhelmingly just showcases. --
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1518:: That's not correct. Article maintainers are generally not expected in AfDs. Per
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the portal already manages to give a biased view of the topic. Actively harmful.
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Seven entries created in September 2011. Four never updated. One minor edit in
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Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association (2nd nomination)
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providing an alternative way of navigating the content within that topic area
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unlike other truly neglected portals that get deleted. This portal gets it's
655:. Please also reassess based on the latest copyedits here at NBA. Regards.—
1703:
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his already out-of-date entry was apparently carelessly copy-pasted from
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retired from basketball in 2016 and now coaches the San Antonio Spurs
187:. Three created in December 2013. Three created in March/May 2014.
714:
I've copyedited to address the errors mentioned in the nomination.—
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Per nom and my expanded reasons in the bundled nomination below.
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Per nom and my expanded reasons in the bundled nomination below.
1473:
XFD discussion, and it's a description of a system working well.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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third, the images are two-dimensional, and his minions are not
1158:
is merged into it? Otherwise both portals should be deleted.
651:
The basketball portal is also being nominated for deletion at
118:
Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association
1355:. I see no suggestion in this discussion of any compulsion.
507:
Four never-updated entries created in November/December 2008
575:. I don't want in any way to prejudge the outcome ... but
308:. I don't want in any way to prejudge the outcome ... but
1702:: The lack of attention to the portal by the minions of
1331:
I'm sorry that you describe this MFD as a kangaroo court.
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Basketball
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seemed to sum up the general portal situation best:
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you close this discussion as delete, please can you
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basketball is a big enough subject to have a portal.
312:
you close this discussion as delete, please can you
1107:
Portal:National Basketball Association/Did you know
870:Bagumba, that's not a very helpful comparator. The
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1797:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1333:I'm used to policies and guidelines, as well as
458:redirection, to avoid surprising our readers.
1337:as far as requiring users to sign up. Shrug.—
217:retired from professional basketball in 2011
8:
1192:both, in the absence of a portal maintaine,
183:created in December 2013. Six never-updated
1275:WikiProject National Basketball Association
792:suggests this portal should exist. Portals
1302:I'm sorry that you describe this MFD as a
880:WP:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Opera
620:(though the merge may be only technical.)
495:National Basketball Association nomination
175:Neglected portal. Shameless copy-paste of
587:), without creating duplicate entries. --
320:), without creating duplicate entries. --
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1614:you have taken my words out of context.
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion
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1351:I dunno what prompted that mention of
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846:Portal:National Basketball Association
554:have won six division titles, not four
203:Duke–Michigan men's basketball rivalry
137:Portal:National Basketball Association
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1249:Nobody wats to maintain ether portals
7:
1109:has had activity (by me) since 2012.
767:popular enough subject for a portal.
48:The result of the discussion was:
1279:for "Portal:Basketball Association"
746:, and twice as much as the generic
1277:: searched its talk archives both
376:Portal:Basketball/Selected picture
24:
1150:- Is someone willing to maintain
547:was renamed "Moda Center" in 2013
231:has owned an NBA team since 2010
991:National Basketball Association
786:National Basketball Association
114:All prior XfDs for this page:
1:
1759:per the nom, Crossroads and @
844:I don't get the claims about
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740:Portal:Association football
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1787:Please do not modify it.
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32:Please do not modify it.
738:, which is on par with
263:from the since-deleted
552:Portland Trail Blazers
841:averages 1,252 views.
573:Note to closing admin
306:Note to closing admin
171:Basketball nomination
1729:User:Robert McClenon
1562:operate like AFD. --
179:. Six never-updated
1700:User:Britishfinance
1529:suggests for AfDs,
878:featured portals.
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281:And apparently now
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955:Basketball Portals
932:Bundling Statement
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1300:
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1131:general trivia
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744:Portal:Cricket
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342:
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283:restored again
239:
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539:Dirk Nowitzki
537:
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531:
530:
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517:
516:February 2014
513:
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185:selected bios
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51:
44:
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38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1802:
1786:
1784:
1770:Newshunter12
1756:
1660:
1640:
1513:
1470:
1449:
1441:
1214:
1193:
1189:
1172:
1147:
1126:
1099:
1089:
1083:
1066:
1049:
935:
913:
875:
828:Portal:Opera
813:-Crossroads-
812:
811:
801:
797:
793:
781:
764:
742:, more than
728:
711:
693:
685:
678:
652:
632:
624:
612:
611:
580:
576:
572:
557:
512:January 2013
498:
476:
462:-Crossroads-
461:
460:
454:
450:
446:
442:
431:
414:
395:
391:
387:
371:
359:
351:
344:
313:
309:
305:
257:
240:
218:
209:Juwan Howard
174:
49:
47:
31:
28:
1709:iconoclasts
1661:Delete both
1644:outsiders.—
1527:WP:NOEFFORT
1173:Delete both
1028:Jan19-Jun19
1000:Jan19-Jun19
545:Rose Garden
55:‑Scottywong
1765:HairedGirl
1568:HairedGirl
1493:HairedGirl
1418:HairedGirl
1368:HairedGirl
1312:HairedGirl
1223:HairedGirl
1034:Basketball
1019:Basketball
1006:Basketball
889:HairedGirl
769:Catfurball
593:HairedGirl
533:Steve Nash
520:March 2016
436:Basketball
419:Catfurball
326:HairedGirl
235:Tim Duncan
223:Portal:NBA
177:Portal:NBA
1791:talk page
1624:Regards.—
1520:WP:BEFORE
1360:WP:WPPORT
1252:Regards.—
1196:to a new
518:, one in
514:, one in
37:talk page
1793:or in a
1704:Genseric
1671:Portal).
1577:contribs
1502:contribs
1427:contribs
1377:contribs
1321:contribs
1232:contribs
1148:Question
986:Percent
980:Comments
974:Articles
971:Baseline
898:contribs
837:, while
602:contribs
335:contribs
215:Yao Ming
39:or in a
1646:Bagumba
1626:Bagumba
1550:Bagumba
1535:Bagumba
1465:writes
1404:Bagumba
1389:Bagumba
1339:Bagumba
1269:Bagumba
1254:Bagumba
1127:Comment
1114:Bagumba
1067:Comment
1050:Comment
850:Bagumba
752:Bagumba
716:Bagumba
712:Comment
657:Bagumba
287:Bagumba
269:Bagumba
225:in 2014
150:history
91:history
1757:Delete
1573:(talk)
1498:(talk)
1483:As to
1423:(talk)
1373:(talk)
1317:(talk)
1228:(talk)
1215:Delete
1190:Delete
1177:SD0001
1084:Delete
1042:0.40%
1014:0.83%
938:boldly
914:Delete
894:(talk)
876:former
782:Delete
598:(talk)
527:Errors
477:Delete
432:Delete
372:Delete
331:(talk)
191:Errors
50:delete
1763:Brown
1566:Brown
1555:XFDs.
1491:Brown
1416:Brown
1366:Brown
1310:Brown
1221:Brown
983:Notes
962:Title
936:I am
887:Brown
839:Opera
591:Brown
397:Kusma
324:Brown
158:watch
154:links
99:watch
95:links
60:|Â Â ||
16:<
1774:talk
1737:talk
1717:talk
1689:talk
1650:talk
1630:talk
1539:talk
1393:talk
1362:. --
1343:talk
1281:and
1258:talk
1206:talk
1181:talk
1164:talk
1139:talk
1118:talk
1075:talk
1058:talk
1025:6028
997:7574
977:Type
946:talk
922:talk
854:talk
830:, a
819:talk
773:talk
765:Keep
756:talk
729:Keep
720:talk
679:Keep
661:talk
563:talk
550:The
485:talk
468:talk
447:even
423:talk
415:Keep
392:keep
380:Nemo
345:Keep
291:talk
273:talk
246:talk
162:logs
146:talk
142:edit
103:logs
87:talk
83:edit
1711:.
1575:• (
1514:any
1500:• (
1471:any
1425:• (
1375:• (
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1154:if
1133:.
1093:•
896:• (
802:not
798:not
750:. —
616:to
600:• (
581:not
455:not
451:not
333:• (
314:not
219:but
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1391:(
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1341:(
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1073:(
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483:(
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402:t
400:(
362:C
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289:(
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267:—
244:(
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140:(
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81:(
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