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can't think of a wording that would explain its use in
Knowledge (XXG) but would not look like legal advice on a specific issue and not encourage rip-off merchants the world over, causing no end of bother to Mr Thomas (as with Google, though Google may have been well-intentioned). However, if the flag cannot attract copyright in the USA, Google didn't have to fight—that is, legally, but their moral (well, company reputation) position was difficult.
430:(claimed to be ineligible for copyright protection in Japan, copyright protection granted in the United States). This position is also supported by the Berne Convention, which states that you should only use the laws of the country where protection is claimed but not by the laws of the source country. --
775:
In
Australia, the copyright law prevents some use of the flag. If the flag appears on a page on Knowledge (XXG), then there may be restrictions on how you can distribute verbatim copies of the page in Australia, or it may be impossible to distribute copies of the page in Australia altogether. This is
872:
I've fixed up the first reference in the article, to make the
Australian government webpage on the flag more accessible. However, that page states categorically that, apart from flying the flag, any use of the design requires the artist's permission unless it is allowed under the Copyright Act. I
672:
is governed by the place of publication, which is the USA; (4) the image may be subject to copyright in the USA, at least through recognition of foreign copyright; (5) if it is subject to copyright in the USA, nonetheless it is probably exempt because (6) publication of an official national flag,
818:: thank you—you evidently know your onions here and I think you have summed things up very well for us. I thought that the fact that the image is copyright in Australia was relevant here in view of the possibility that this copyright would be recognised in the USA: you have now answered that.
937:
English
Knowledge (XXG) is for everybody who understands English. It caters to Australians, British, Canadians, and others of former British colonies. It caters to other regions also. Of course the template is needed to avoid transfer to Commons, which deleted the Australian aboriginal flag as
195:
I think you're probably right about the legal position, George. I have written to the
Commonwealth Flag Officer to see whether they have a suggestion and will notify any reply here. In the meantime, I agree that we should keep showing the flag - we are operating in entirely good faith. (The
131:
The
Australian aboriginal flag is probably unfree and should be restricted to very few or several articles mainly discussing the flag itself. Even when the US might not protect the flag, the copyright belongs to Australia. We should treat it as unfree, but we must not delete the flag.
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as perhaps being in the public domain, but we're not sure. It's probably still under US copyright (if a work of the federal government, its copyright expired in 2006, not pre-1996), but regardless of the situation, it's a good candidate for fair use, since he's long deceased.
282:, is that works which are in the public domain in the United States count as 'free' on Knowledge (XXG), and this flag is clearly in the public domain in the United States, and is therefore 'free' on Knowledge (XXG). If you want to change that, propose a change of
1612:. Um...well they put these things up to draw attention to fireworks stands or they can be found inflated at parties, festivals, etc. Sometimes dinosaurs or King Kong inflatable things....maybe 25-30 feet tall at best. Not permanent fixtures not sculptures.--
1756:
Soo...do you
Bishzilla think that your likeness is "silly"? I mean because if you don't then it might be better we keep the image because well...it just might be better. I mean. I don't think Kelly is serious when he says this doesn't have encyclopedic
234:: 'While Knowledge (XXG) prefers content that is free anywhere in the world, it accepts content that is free in the United States even if it may be under copyright in some other countries.' If you wish to change this rule, please propose a change at
307:, I would argue using common sense and treating it as unfree, but I don't think most Americans study or have read Australian law. Since I don't share people's senses on what they do not know, what else is commonly known in regards to this case?
753:
The image is not subject to copyright in the United States. Copyright protection to non-U.S. works is only recognised if the work meets the threshold of originality of the United States, which isn't the case here. See for example
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No, because we need no rationale, and including one will prompt bots and inattentive users to remove it from pages that don't have a rationale and scare off users from adding the image to other pages where it would be relevant.
699:(much more complicated) still isn't original enough for copyright. Aside from the fact that the relevant local law has an absurdly low minimum standard for granting copyright protection, this isn't fundamentally different from
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is governed by the place of publication, which is the USA; and (3) publication of an official national flag, in particular neither commercially nor in any way that diminishes the market value of the image, falls within the
290:. You should also keep in mind that the Berne Convention forces Australia to provide protection for lots of United States logos which are below the threshold of originality of the United States but not that of Australia. --
403:
I do think this is a legal question, effectively - whether the flag would be considered copyrightable in the US despite not being original enough, because of that court ruling and the treaties that govern international
668:? (1) The image is subject to copyright, which is held by Mr Thomas, and this is acknowledged in the article; (2) Australian law (the Copyright Act 1968) does not appear to provide an exemption; (3) publication in
88:. That is all Knowledge (XXG) is concerned with, and this file can not possibly be unfree as long as the file is hosted here specifically. There is absolutely no reason to change the license to a non-free one. —
1695:
after they've served their immediate purpose of making people smile or whatever and gone into the archives, just so image patrollers and
Commons movers don't have to try to figure out what to do with them.
772:, which are meant to be restricted to things permitted in the United States. That said, this flag is not copyrighted in the United States in the first place and therefore doesn't count as a 'fair use file'.
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Hard to come by this. Anyhoo...um...sure am glad I'm not going to be deleting this. Whoever does better put in for a username change immediately afterward because
Jurassic age critters are very ornery.--
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I think this was a worthwhile discussion to have; copyrights can be very complicated. I do not think that we need a use rationale in this case, although one might want to discuss whether templates like
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should ask the copyright holder, Mr Harold Thomas, for permission. However, I cannot find a path for asking the
Wikimedia Foundation to do that and no user can do it on the Foundation's behalf.
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The Commonwealth Flag Officer has kindly written back to me, with no suggestion beyond that, if this use is not within an exemption in the (Australian) Copyright Act (and I can't see one),
264:
a deletion. It's a determination of copyright status. This assumption... frustrates me. Do you know a better venue than this? FFD is now a discussion page, no longer a deletion. Want that?
506:(don't we have one for Australia?) are only meant to be used for files which are non-free in the United States, although the template mentions the law of other countries at some places. --
1691:'s talk page. The talk page archives are full of them. I don't have a huge problem with it, but unless they have some potential encyclopedic purpose they should probably be deleted per
146:
Although an Australian court has declared the flag to be unfree, it is clearly below the threshold of originality of the United States. Therefore, it is enough to tag it with
38:
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If it was taken in the United States in 2007, then the dinosaur is probably a recent creation. This means that you need permission from whoever created it. See for example
655:
I take your point about a valid rationale, George, to be whether there is a good reason to continue using this image although there is a question whether it is free to use.
33:
783:) and a Knowledge (XXG) page containing the image qualifies for that exemption, then it is possible to distribute copies of that Knowledge (XXG) page in Australia. --
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because we cannot change the "which copyright law matters" policy here. A courtesy permission request is something we can do but it doesn't render the image non-free.
869:
I agree: Nyttend and Stefan2 are making the point that the image is not eligible for copyright in the USA, so its use here, governed by US law, needs no excuse.
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Also, I wouldn't think of WP:NUSC as a guideline. But, since it is, I can ignore it to improve Knowledge (XXG) (i.e. make a good example to editors out there).
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may be linked to but may not be copied and re-used (9) except for a purpose authorised by the Copyright Act (such as a non-commercial educational purpose).
181:, although I proposed a rename. The "PD-ineligible-USonly" is insufficient to verify the actual copyright status, no matter where servers are located at. --
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Given the apparent age of Mr Amor in this picture I find it a little hard to consider 50 years as having elapsed. Would meet fair-use, as he is deceased.
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It would certainly be unfree in Australia. Our policy considers whether it would be copyrightable in the US. My sense from reading this is "no", so I'd
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Unknown country of photography, but the photographed item does not seem to be permanently installed, which would rule out FOP more or less everywhere.
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No, you still seem to be concluding that it's subject to copyright in the USA. This is nowhere near sufficient for copyright, given the fact that the
1587:
Its a picture of a portable, temporary, inflatable t-rex dinosaur. I took the picture in 2007 in Nebraska, USA. What is the problem with this image?--
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My guess (as to the third point, no more than that) is this: (1) the image is subject to copyright, which is held by Mr Thomas; (2) publication in
113:
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Too incomplete source to verify copyright claim. The copyright tag is for Australia, but Knowledge (XXG) demands a United States copyright tag.
814:: I was not assuming that the flag is copyright in the USA, only that it "may" be. Whether it is, is up to those who know US copyright law.
705:, which is copyrighted in the country of origin but kept here with PD tag and without rationale because it's in the public domain in the USA.
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Under no circumstance can two rectangles with a superimposed circle be copyrighted in the US; this is far below the threshold of originality.
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exception which sometimes are relevant when using copyrighted material in Australia. What does this have to do with the file discussed here.
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The rule in United States copyright law is that it is only the threshold of originality in the United States which matters. See for example
341:, we have lots of templates which are based on the rule that only United States copyright law matters on Knowledge (XXG). See, for example,
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423:
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exemption in US copyright law; (7) but the exemption in US law has no effect in Australia, so that (8) in Australia the image as used in
84:. Knowledge (XXG) is governed by the laws of the United States, and this flag is considered in the public domain for failing to meet the
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username that follows is an account created just for this occasion, so that I will be able to use my real name in reporting the reply.)
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Bishonen not involved... silly images go on Bishzilla's page always! See friendly smiling image used in arbcom candidacy campaign
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Whether it is copyrighted in other countries depends on local laws. It is quite obviously not copyrighted in the United States.
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in particular neither commercially nor in any way that diminishes the market value of the image, appears to fall within the
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The uploader claims this is simple, but the presence of the backdrop raises this logo above the threshold of originality.
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I can fill "Other information" parameter with "PD-ineligible-USonly" inside a "non-free use rationale" template. Agree? --
177:, we can't go by solely US jurisdiction. We must also go for the laws of Australia. Also, some people voted "deletion" on
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1700:, yes, the copyright would be held by whoever made this thing and this image is technically a non-free derivative work.
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I don't see the problem with this -- uploaded by the photographer, put in the public domain by the photographer.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a
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Category:Public domain images ineligible for copyright in the United States but not in their source countries
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I run across these periodically - apparently there's a longstanding joke/tradition to post silly images to
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In Australia, the flag is © Harold Joseph Thomas and is not subject to Crown Copyright. Templates such as
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426:(claimed to be copyrighted in the United Kingdom, copyright protection refused in the United States) and
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The background is obviously copyrighted. Not used in the article namespace, so can't be changed in to
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Image of deceased composer. No evidence uploader is copyright holder, limited contribution history.
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of the US may be subject to copyright restrictions. That's a discussion for another venue, though.
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371:. Other countries have other copyright terms and exemptions from copyright protection. --
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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The following discussion is an archived inquiry of the possible unfree file below.
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contains exemptions from copyright in certain situations. For example, there is a
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a problem for those who wish to distribute Knowledge (XXG) content in Australia.
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If the Australian copyright law contains an exemption from copyright (such as
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Have we now got to the following position, which would allow the image to be
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and convert to fair use. The image will be removed from all articles except
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c:COM:ART#Photograph of an old sculpture found on the Internet, or in a book
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Exempt or not, let's consider it unfree then in respect to Australian laws.
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Whoever created it...you mean the company that manufactures these things?--
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462:? Although nonexistent, that applies to Australian government properties.
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Referral due to the inclusion of the Wimbledon logo, which is above TOO.
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Derivative of school crest, we don't know what its copyright status is.
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Yes, that company is probably the copyright holder of the dinosaur. --
1721:. May be needed again (2015 arbcom nomination period not yet over!).
2584:, claims fair use and doesn't reveal where the picture comes from.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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License statement on file seems to indicate "non-commerical".
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It is not copyrighted in the United States in the first place.
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1950 is too recent for the age restrictions in the template.
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Fair use files may only be used on Knowledge (XXG) under the
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Wrong assumption. Probably the guideline needs improvement.
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No source given, so no way to confirm is this is free use.
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now that DRosenbach has changed the permission statement.
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Shall we at least have a valid rationale for this image? --
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No evidence that the picture is old enough. The source,
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What is FOP? It's a photograph of an inflatable t-rex.--
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instead of nominating individual files for deletion. --
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This is claimed as being too simple, I'm not so sure.
750:
Knowledge (XXG) is only governed by United States law.
213:, how many articles should use this non-free image? --
3581:). No further edits should be made to this section.
3434:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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466:says so; therefore, a template should be created.
3251:Unclear if the uploader is the copyright holder.
260:: Why is PUF treated as a deletion page? This is
1248:1951 is too recent for the copyright tag used.
729:The file is subject to copyright in Australia.
8:
3316:, as any other use would be in violation of
2896:Uploader not copyright holder, apparently.
2912:The mask is obviously copyrighted too. --
37:
29:
18:Knowledge (XXG):Possibly unfree files
7:
758:For this reason, the file should be
756:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.
424:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.
449:non-free Australian Crown copyright
106:File:Australian Aboriginal Flag.svg
57:File:Australian Aboriginal Flag.svg
3586:The result of the discussion was:
3439:The result of the discussion was:
3308:The result of the discussion was:
3153:The result of the discussion was:
2970:The result of the discussion was:
2798:The result of the discussion was:
2642:The result of the discussion was:
2482:The result of the discussion was:
2422:c:File:Yifan Xu 2015 Wimbledon.jpg
2303:The result of the discussion was:
2122:The result of the discussion was:
1967:The result of the discussion was:
1812:The result of the discussion was:
1608:Duh...took me a bit to find FOP...
1466:The result of the discussion was:
1306:The result of the discussion was:
1223:File:Skazka o mertvoi tzarevne.jpg
1150:The result of the discussion was:
1127:File:Skazka o mertvoi tzarevne.jpg
994:The result of the discussion was:
80:The result of the discussion was:
24:
915:should warn that using the files
501:Non-free Canadian Crown Copyright
2381:File:Yifan Xu 2015 Wimbledon.jpg
2280:File:Yifan Xu 2015 Wimbledon.jpg
1067:File:Skazka o rybake i rybke.jpg
971:File:Skazka o rybake i rybke.jpg
554:exemption in US copyright law.
3500:OK, I modified my permission.
3226:File:Henryabrahamrehnquist.jpg
3130:File:Henryabrahamrehnquist.jpg
428:Hasbro Bradley v. Sparkle Toys
1:
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99:07:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
26:
2582:he:קובץ:Goldshmidt yosef.jpg
2420:This is also on Commons as
1379:File:Davide (Donatello).jpg
1283:File:Davide (Donatello).jpg
3728:
2555:File:Goldshmidt yosef.jpg
2459:File:Goldshmidt yosef.jpg
2360:A file with this name on
1885:File:Bembridge shield.JPG
1789:File:Bembridge shield.JPG
770:non-free content criteria
762:and not marked as unfree.
3704:Please do not modify it.
3574:Please do not modify it.
3548:Please do not modify it.
3518:; it's a simple case of
3427:Please do not modify it.
3401:Please do not modify it.
3296:Please do not modify it.
3270:Please do not modify it.
3141:Please do not modify it.
3115:Please do not modify it.
2958:Please do not modify it.
2932:Please do not modify it.
2786:Please do not modify it.
2760:Please do not modify it.
2630:Please do not modify it.
2604:Please do not modify it.
2470:Please do not modify it.
2444:Please do not modify it.
2291:Please do not modify it.
2265:Please do not modify it.
2239:he:קובץ:Amor_shaul-s.jpg
2110:Please do not modify it.
2084:Please do not modify it.
1955:Please do not modify it.
1929:Please do not modify it.
1800:Please do not modify it.
1774:Please do not modify it.
1454:Please do not modify it.
1428:Please do not modify it.
1294:Please do not modify it.
1268:Please do not modify it.
1138:Please do not modify it.
1112:Please do not modify it.
982:Please do not modify it.
956:Please do not modify it.
826:, are you also content?
491:Non-free Crown copyright
86:threshold of originality
68:Please do not modify it.
3043:File:ProjectExplore.jpg
2947:File:ProjectExplore.jpg
1623:c:COM:FOP#United States
278:The rule, according to
3659:File:KevinOwensPic.jpg
3563:File:KevinOwensPic.jpg
2237:Appears to come from
2195:File:Amor shaul-s.jpg
2099:File:Amor shaul-s.jpg
3461:File:Runningroom.png
3416:File:Runningroom.png
2871:File:Gustheeagle.jpg
2775:File:Gustheeagle.jpg
2040:File:GeorgeDraga.jpg
1944:File:GeorgeDraga.jpg
910:PD-ineligible-USonly
151:PD-ineligible-USonly
2245:isn't satisfied. --
1610:Freedom of panorama
1539:File:Very scary.JPG
1443:File:Very scary.JPG
3338:File:JJ Cahill.JPG
3285:File:JJ Cahill.JPG
737:Copyright Act 1968
1742:
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697:Best Western logo
584:keep as PD-USOnly
475:
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3615:protections
3523:Attribution
3182:protections
2999:protections
2827:protections
2671:protections
2511:protections
2332:protections
2243:WP:NFCC#10a
2151:protections
1996:protections
1841:protections
1495:protections
1335:protections
1179:protections
1023:protections
444:What about
404:copyrights.
51:November 10
39:November 11
3627:page moves
3504:DRosenbach
3488:Sfan00 IMG
3194:page moves
3070:Sfan00 IMG
3011:page moves
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2163:page moves
2008:page moves
1853:page moves
1627:c:COM:TOYS
1507:page moves
1347:page moves
1191:page moves
1035:page moves
938:unfree. --
902:Flagcopier
875:Flagcopier
828:Flagcopier
702:L.H.O.O.Q.
683:Flagcopier
556:Flagcopier
356:FoP-USonly
258:Flagcopier
211:Flagcopier
198:Flagcopier
34:November 9
3644:AnomieBOT
3621:deletions
3211:AnomieBOT
3188:deletions
3028:AnomieBOT
3005:deletions
2856:AnomieBOT
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2366:AnomieBOT
2338:deletions
2180:AnomieBOT
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2002:deletions
1870:AnomieBOT
1847:deletions
1725:bishzilla
1598:Antandrus
1524:AnomieBOT
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1364:AnomieBOT
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1052:AnomieBOT
1029:deletions
940:George Ho
842:George Ho
820:George Ho
608:George Ho
570:George Ho
471:George Ho
326:George Ho
312:George Ho
266:George Ho
215:George Ho
183:George Ho
134:George Ho
3686:Tabercil
3603:contribs
3592:Explicit
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1973:Explicit
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1818:Explicit
1757:value!--
1689:Bishonen
1483:contribs
1472:Explicit
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1312:Explicit
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1156:Explicit
1011:contribs
1000:Explicit
675:fair use
552:fair use
474:actually
3671:history
3530:Nyttend
3473:history
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3365:Stefan2
3350:history
3318:WP:NFCC
3238:history
3097:Stefan2
3055:history
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2727:history
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917:outside
857:Nyttend
816:Stefan2
812:Nyttend
785:Stefan2
707:Nyttend
643:Nyttend
508:Stefan2
468:This is
432:Stefan2
373:Stefan2
305:Stefan2
292:Stefan2
284:WP:NUSC
280:WP:NUSC
254:Stefan2
240:Stefan2
232:WP:NUSC
175:Stefan2
158:Stefan2
118:history
3663:delete
3633:rights
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1601:(talk)
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996:Delete
456:Stefan
230:, see
110:delete
3378:Retag
3255:Kelly
2900:Kelly
2069:Kelly
1914:Kelly
1759:MONGO
1704:Kelly
1698:MONGO
1668:MONGO
1645:MONGO
1614:MONGO
1589:MONGO
1580:MONGO
460:Jo-Jo
42:: -->
16:<
3690:talk
3675:logs
3667:talk
3597:talk
3534:talk
3516:Keep
3492:talk
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3469:talk
3443:. —
3441:keep
3387:talk
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3346:talk
3320:. —
3310:keep
3242:logs
3234:talk
3164:talk
3101:talk
3095:. --
3074:talk
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2424:. --
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1719:here
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1629:. --
1625:and
1570:talk
1555:logs
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1404:See
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760:kept
735:The
711:talk
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666:kept
647:talk
639:Keep
612:talk
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574:talk
560:talk
512:talk
496:and
478:Talk
458:and
436:talk
410:talk
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330:talk
316:talk
296:talk
288:WP:C
270:talk
256:and
244:talk
236:WT:C
219:talk
202:talk
187:talk
162:talk
156:. --
138:talk
122:logs
114:talk
82:keep
31:<
3639:RfA
3206:RfA
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741:FOP
286:or
262:not
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1741:R!
1737:OA
1660:)
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907:{{
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446:{{
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148:{{
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3688:(
3679:.
3677:)
3661:(
3648:⚡
3641:)
3636:·
3630:·
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