Knowledge (XXG)

:Redirects for discussion/Log/2006 August 10 - Knowledge (XXG)

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443:'s criteria for reputable sources. Blogs, Forums, and personal websites do not count. The 'popularity' on YouTube does not count. The Notable YouTube users page was designed because the community concensus was that individual users were not to be on the main YouTube page. Individual articles were created but even the links were not allowed as an edit war arrose from it. Finally, I stepped in and suggested merging all the YouTube users that had articles into one article. That merger was opposed. So, we had related articles but no way to link them. I finally found a compromise between the two sides and made this article/catagory. One link from the main article was ok'ed by the exclusion crowd to a page that listed all the notable users, the inclusion crowd wanted to make sure that this was just a list of people with Wiki Articles only. There stipulation was that 1) A person must have a wikipedia article 2)A person's article must pass all WP rules including 596:
YouTube 3)The page is only there to link users that have pages here at WP so what is the difference between this and a Catagory? A catagory would make it easier for people to traverse between each userpage as well and make things neater. It would also end these kind of arguements that "'XXXX' deserves mention because they are notable on YouTube."... Now, 'XXXX' needs to have an article before being included in the catagory and if they have an article, it can be debated in a consenus of editors if the article truely stands up to WP's standards. Thoughts? --
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the fire. LG15 failed the AFD and because of that her page was removed. Since she no longer has a page, she no longer is listed on the Notable YouTube users list. While quite a few people do look for her on here, I think a link from her name to the Notables list is a mixed blessing. It shows people that some 'Tubers' are notable but then it brings up the question 'well why isn't xxxxx on this list', and some anon decides to add them, then is bent out of shape when their entry is removed. I'd go with
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times, but it's a rare day indeed when the NY Times can write about something and that isn't deemed sufficient to settle the matter. You keep talking about these policies, WP:V, WP;OR, but she obviously passes all of them, since the content is all easily verifiable just through the link I posted above to a set of articles about her. It leaves me thoroughly baffled. Furthermore, a YouTube user with roughly equivalent notability,
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will pass AfD, though I personally believe he shouldn't as the article is a word-for-word repeat in all the newspapers and even read as the TV BBS news script. I personally believe is constitutes a single source but what do I know...and really that is neither here nor there. I have gotten off topic.
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etc. 3) A person must derive their notability exclusively from YouTube 4)the page/list was not to take the place of individual pages (sneaky merger) but to satisfy the rules, each listing had to include the media coverage that person received. I had the thankless (but somewhat fun) job of dancing in
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This may be something to bring up, but I am actually looking into creating a subcatagory (Users) or (Notable users) under the YouTube parent catagory. The reasoning is this: 1)Obviously the users are notable or they wouldn't pass WP's standards. 2)They are all famous or notable for their videos on
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of the sources are "reliable" in the sense that they confirm her notability. What do you want? Does she need to have a book published about her, or would that also not be sufficient? Look at the other people included on the list. Shouldn't we apply the same standard to Lonelygirl as we've applied to
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Does harm by returning non-encyclopedic results for people searching for encyclopedia topics, and increases confusion for new users by blurring the line between the encyclopedia and wikipedia. While "redirects are cheap" that cost mounts up when a lage number of redirects are involved, and forcing
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with their press coverage. Bowiechick hasn't had and AfD but I believe it is because she was interviewed by the nationally broadcasted CBS nightly news. LG15's AfD happened after all these and it was decided she didn't pass. For your information, I DID vote keep on her, but later changed my mind.
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is in AfD right now because while he was mentioned in various articles, the all are a word for word repeat of each other...however he was mentioned on a BBS report. LG15 only has a blog from the NYTimesonline mention. Blogs are not acceptable per Wikipeida's standards. Beyond that, all the others
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the redirect (and add info correspondingly) if an individual article cannot be accepted. If I had it my way she would have her own article; too many people have looked at this from the wrong angle (yes, anybody can post a video on YouTube, and no, that doesn't make just anybody notable—but that is
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All blogs are not created equal. This particular blog was written by a writer for the NY Times, Virginia Heffernan, and is posted on the NY Times website. I've never encountered such a stringent requirement for notability before. I have battled it out on inclusion/deletion questions innumerable
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Do you mean force information about her on the page? Well, no, that would not happen since then we would have to allow ANYONE that has a YouTube account to post themselves there. Where would the cut off be? "You can be mentioned but you can't". The page is designed for only people that have
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from the YouTube article and then immediately reinstated it when I saw that he had a standalone article and viewed the sources there). Even a blog written by a NYT writer & posted at the NYT website is still a blog... this could certainly be debated either way, but I personally just don't
846:. It does no harm and it serves to reduce confusion among new users who are trying to find the templates but don't yet know the intricacies of our namespaces. It is clearly labeled as a Knowledge (XXG) page and can not be confused for an article. It meets bullets 3 and 5 of 191:
I didn't know we had rules about the notability of a subject over an extended period of time. I thought something could be notable for any length of time at all and get an article—notice how we get all those great articles on events and people just hours (even
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the redirect (and add info correpondingly) - see explaination above - I am gobsmacked that someone as notable as LG15 does not justify a single mention on Knowledge (XXG) given the level of attention she is receiving across the internet. Please refer to
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mirrors are to download non-encyclopedic content when all they want is the encyclopedia is not acceptable in my view in exchange for them "being useful" to a subset of editors who can used bookmarks/userpages to achieve the same goal. Regards,
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So what kind of logic is that? It is denied an article because some people think it only deserves mention within the scope of a broader article, and now somebody is going to say it shouldn't be mentioned there because it
476:, is now passing AfD with a resounding majority. I'm thinking that something just went badly wrong in the original AfD and now it's getting a hard time here just because of some stigma associated with failing an AfD. 577:
articles about them on Knowledge (XXG) already. It was designed to be a link between all the pages...YouTube's main article and all the users that have articles...not a page for anyone to drop their name on. --
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I conceed that the LG15 saga spans a short period of time and needs more time to be "noteable" by Knowledge (XXG) rules. I propose deletion and revisit the LG15 if and when she gets more media coverage.
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and she was removed. The point still stands, this is a redirect to an article that has no information about the subject (and she should not be added unless someone can source that she meets
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This article was converted into a Catagory so a redirect is pretty much pointless at this time. I would ask an admin to close this discussion as the debate is now basically a moot point. --
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have an individual article? This is ridiculous. I have to think Lonelygirl is at least as notable as the people already included in this article, if attention and coverage are compared.
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passed an AfD because she has been mentioned twice by the Sydney Morning Herald (in the paper not just online), and twice by the Washington Post(in the paper..not just online).
555:- a redirect without a relevant target is useless and misleading. With no mention of her on the target page someone is going to type it in as a search and be rather confused - 655:
A misleading, incorrect (title mentions subjects of three separate articles, not just Colt) and absolutely redundant (who would type THAT in?) redirect resulting from an
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The problem is not only was it a blog but the fact that all she had WAS the blog (and some other blogs, personal websites and a local newspaper) mentioned her.
1047: 1039: 342:... sorry, she falls well short for inclusion and as I've stated above, this redirect is a dead end if it leads somewhere that does not mention her.-- 21: 381:, and various newspaper/tv news reports. BowieChick was interviewed on the CBS News Nightly Report, and was featured in The Guardian and by ZDNet. 876: 17: 758: 742: 702: 102:
page, the addition of Lonelygirl15 to the Notable YouTube users article has been rejected by those editing that article. That makes the
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which results in a disambig with a link to the target. As far as doing no harm, the pros & cons of cross-namespace are covered at
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consider a blog with no editorial oversight to be a very reliable source, nor is it a very good indication of "notability" in the
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is an actor that has appeared in two movies as well as various newspaper articles for his dual role as an actor and YouTuber.
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Users searching for wikipedia templates come across this page and use the redirect service. It also meets bullets 3 and 5 of
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WP has standards. The consensus from the editors of WP is that Brookers and Emmalina both passed AfD because they passed
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Maybe it wasn't published in the newspaper, but it was an article on their website written by one of their writers.
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per nom - nonnotable entity without an article which is what the article redirected to is, a list of youtube users
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Well, I'd hope that a successful redirection vote would at least force the addition of the info to the page.
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at a later date (or a full article about her at the name space); right now this redirect is useless though.--
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irrelevant) without considering the really amazing level of attention she's gotten, including a NYT article.
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states multiple, Independent, Reliable, third-party sources. She doesn't meet it but the others have.
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is not a rule, policy, or guideline. It is an essay; it is quite useful as far as essays are concerned.
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redirect useless because it is pointing to an article that will not contain any information about her.--
904: 847: 1044: 968: 908: 322:. Take your pick. And by the way, she is the fourth most subscribed YouTube channel of all time now. 249: 1095:: We don't delete redirect simply because they are mispelled or unused. No harm in keeping this. -- 937: 559: 226: 660: 390:
have multiple mentions from independent Third-Party Reliable Sources. LG15 does not have that. --
746: 141: 334:, All I see are blogs, trivial mentions, and short blurbs... nothing that comes even close to a 955: 855: 818: 810: 762: 664: 382: 77: 983:
difficult for them to learn it by confusing/entwining the name spaces from day one? Regards,
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as a cross-namespace redirect. The article namespace should be reserved for articles only. --
677:. Useless from a search standpoint, but it exists to preserve the GDFL chain after a merge. - 208: 536: 523: 502: 497: 488: 444: 405: 339: 306: 302: 294: 286: 835: 633: 527: 452: 440: 436: 335: 282: 1036: 923: 880: 568: 556: 540: 477: 409: 370: 357: 343: 323: 310: 297:(and not the same old tired NYT blog post again). Someone already tried to add her to 267: 212: 197: 155: 121: 107: 448: 432: 279: 1106:
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
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passed an AfD because she has been mentioned in many sources, including the magazine
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There is no stigma here. She failed an AfD for a reason. Perhaps when she passes
461: 391: 293:, I would remove her for the same reason unless someone asserted a source that met 178: 103: 87: 70: 54: 809:
It is cross-namespace redirect from Main namespace to Knowledge (XXG) namespace.
183: 1096: 1030: 892: 832: 404:, Brian has it exactly right. All others listed at the redirect target meet 872: 798: 713: 644: 868: 366: 922:, a style guide, makes a good arguement for how this hurts the project. 1083: 1075: 530:
with articles written at Reuters, Guardian, et al (in fact I removed
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just because it has caused more trouble than it has been worth --
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I guess I will chime in here. EveryKing, the sources do not pass
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as quoted above. It also doesn't hurt wikipedia in having it. --
94:. Article was created as a redirect, but as can be seen at the 967:
Not everyone is geeky enough to know everything off the bat. --
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No, she didn't have her own NYT article. It was a blog post.
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early as its target was deleted and replaced by a category. —
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Lonelygirl15's article was deleted per AfD because no
1074:(Now that I am refershing on policy Hetar is right) 1082:It is mispelled and unused :). (maybe a speedy?) 867:. New users are much more likely to search for 8: 827:And has no incoming links, so can be simply 630:NedCar BV: Mitsubishi Colt - smart Forfour 877:Knowledge (XXG):Cross-namespace redirects 18:Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion 285:were produced to demonstrate she met 7: 759:Scientific opinion on climate change 743:Scientific opinion on climate change 703:Scientific opinion on climate change 745:(as to avoid double redirects). -- 28: 788:Knowledge (XXG):Template messages 90:was deleted per AfD consensus on 1065:Common criticisms of Windows XP 505:someone can contest the AfD. -- 1061:Common critcisms of Windows XP 724:String of nonsense redirects-- 1: 643:, attributions preserved. -- 905:Avoid deleting redirects if: 848:Avoid deleting redirects if: 196:!) after notability occurs. 1100:04:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 1087:23:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 1079:06:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 1070:The nominated redirect was 1049:06:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 1048:_user_talk:demonblade": --> 1041:12:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 1040:_user_talk:demonblade": --> 1027:The nominated redirect was 1005:23:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 988:23:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 972:16:22, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 960:12:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 942:03:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 912:21:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 896:04:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 884:00:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 860:19:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 839:14:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 822:04:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 806:13:39, 17 August 2006 (UTC) 793:The nominated redirect was 771:16:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 750:14:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 737:, but change the target of 729:02:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 721:13:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC) 708:The nominated redirect was 682:13:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 669:15:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 652:13:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC) 639:The nominated redirect was 617:19:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 603:18:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 584:14:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 572:11:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 563:10:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 544:13:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 512:14:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 481:03:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 467:19:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 413:01:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 397:19:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 361:18:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 347:15:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 327:10:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 314:12:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 271:10:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 257:02:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 231:20:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 201:04:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 187:08:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC) 159:04:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC) 150:11:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC) 125:06:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC) 111:19:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 83:19:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 64:The nominated redirect was 1122: 784:Knowledge (XXG) Templates 761:. It does makes sense. -- 518:The sources provided for 741:so it links directly to 318:Look, sources are right 289:. If she were added to 338:and nothing that meets 951:learn the namespaces. 177:After discussing with 739:Global Warming Survey 699:Global warming survey 695:Global Warming Survey 299:Notable YouTube users 291:Notable YouTube users 59:Notable YouTube users 1022:user talk:demonblade 365:Well, let us look. 679:Hit bull, win steak 1018:User talk:zhanster 957: 858: 351:This is amazing. 74: 1113: 956: 933: 930: 927: 854: 816: 803: 718: 649: 641:Redirect deleted 614: 600: 581: 509: 464: 394: 283:reliable sources 255: 252: 222: 219: 216: 81: 72: 44: 33: 1121: 1120: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1068: 1057: 1025: 1014: 979:So why make it 940: 931: 928: 925: 814: 799: 791: 780: 714: 706: 691: 645: 637: 634:Mitsubishi Colt 626: 612: 598: 579: 522:more than meet 507: 462: 392: 336:reliable source 250: 247: 229: 220: 217: 214: 86:The article at 69: 62: 51: 46: 45: 42: 37: 31: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 1119: 1117: 1103: 1102: 1069: 1067: 1058: 1026: 1024: 1015: 1008: 1007: 994: 993: 992: 991: 990: 946: 945: 944: 936: 898: 886: 862: 841: 831:without harm. 792: 790: 781: 774: 773: 757:redirected to 752: 726:172.147.153.86 707: 705: 692: 685: 684: 638: 636: 627: 620: 619: 605: 590: 589: 588: 587: 586: 550: 549: 548: 547: 546: 516: 515: 514: 429: 428: 427: 426: 425: 424: 423: 422: 421: 420: 419: 418: 417: 416: 415: 371:Brooke Brodack 237: 236: 235: 234: 233: 225: 165: 164: 163: 162: 161: 63: 61: 52: 50: 47: 38: 30: 29: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1118: 1108: 1107: 1101: 1098: 1094: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1085: 1080: 1077: 1073: 1066: 1062: 1059: 1056: 1055: 1051: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1032: 1023: 1019: 1016: 1013: 1012: 1006: 1003: 998: 995: 989: 986: 982: 978: 975: 974: 973: 970: 966: 963: 962: 961: 958: 954: 950: 947: 943: 939: 935: 934: 921: 918: 915: 914: 913: 910: 906: 902: 899: 897: 894: 890: 887: 885: 882: 878: 874: 870: 866: 863: 861: 857: 853: 849: 845: 842: 840: 837: 834: 830: 826: 825: 824: 823: 820: 817: 812: 807: 804: 802: 796: 789: 785: 782: 779: 778: 772: 769: 768: 764: 760: 756: 753: 751: 748: 747:Gray Porpoise 744: 740: 736: 733: 732: 731: 730: 727: 722: 719: 717: 711: 704: 700: 696: 693: 690: 689: 683: 680: 676: 673: 672: 671: 670: 666: 662: 658: 653: 650: 648: 642: 635: 631: 628: 625: 624: 618: 615: 609: 606: 604: 601: 594: 591: 585: 582: 575: 574: 573: 570: 566: 565: 564: 561: 558: 554: 551: 545: 542: 538: 533: 532:Geriatric1927 529: 525: 521: 520:Geriatric1927 517: 513: 510: 504: 499: 494: 493:Geriatric1927 490: 486: 485: 484: 483: 482: 479: 475: 474:Geriatric1927 470: 469: 468: 465: 459: 454: 450: 446: 442: 438: 434: 430: 414: 411: 407: 403: 400: 399: 398: 395: 388: 387:Geriatric1927 384: 380: 379:Rolling Stone 376: 372: 368: 364: 363: 362: 359: 354: 350: 349: 348: 345: 341: 337: 333: 330: 329: 328: 325: 321: 317: 316: 315: 312: 308: 304: 300: 296: 292: 288: 284: 281: 277: 274: 273: 272: 269: 265: 260: 259: 258: 253: 245: 241: 238: 232: 228: 224: 223: 210: 207: 204: 203: 202: 199: 195: 190: 189: 188: 185: 180: 176: 174: 170: 166: 160: 157: 153: 152: 151: 147: 143: 139: 135: 131: 128: 127: 126: 123: 118: 115: 114: 113: 112: 109: 105: 101: 97: 93: 89: 84: 79: 75: 67: 60: 56: 53: 48: 41: 36: 23: 19: 1105: 1104: 1092: 1081: 1071: 1053: 1052: 1043: 1028: 1010: 1009: 996: 980: 976: 964: 948: 924: 916: 900: 888: 864: 843: 828: 808: 800: 794: 776: 775: 765: 754: 734: 723: 715: 709: 687: 686: 674: 654: 646: 640: 622: 621: 607: 592: 552: 457: 401: 352: 331: 275: 263: 243: 239: 213: 205: 193: 175:for details. 168: 167: 133: 129: 116: 104:Lonelygirl15 88:Lonelygirl15 85: 65: 55:Lonelygirl15 1029:Deleted by 1045:Demonblade 280:verifiable 209:Notability 92:August 9th 1037:JLaTondre 1033:(db-test) 881:JLaTondre 873:templates 801:Cyde Weys 716:Cyde Weys 647:Cyde Weys 569:Everyking 557:Peripitus 541:Isotope23 478:Everyking 410:Isotope23 358:Everyking 344:Isotope23 324:Everyking 311:Isotope23 268:Everyking 251:ΣcoPhreek 198:Everyking 156:Everyking 122:Everyking 108:Isotope23 49:10 August 40:August 11 1002:MartinRe 985:MartinRe 869:template 539:sense.-- 383:Kwai Chi 367:Emmalina 246:articles 146:contribs 98:and the 35:August 9 20:‎ | 1020:--: --> 977:Comment 965:Comment 953:Viridae 920:WP:SELF 917:Comment 852:Rossami 829:deleted 819:decimic 795:Deleted 661:Bravada 608:Comment 402:Comment 332:Comment 276:Comment 264:doesn't 206:Comment 194:minutes 179:Bschott 130:Comment 96:history 66:deleted 997:Delete 949:Delete 889:Delete 865:Delete 856:(talk) 593:UPDATE 560:(Talk) 553:Delete 537:WP:BIO 524:WP:BIO 503:WP:BIO 498:WP:BIO 489:WP:BIO 458:Delete 445:WP:BIO 406:WP:BIO 375:Vanity 356:them? 340:WP:BIO 307:WP:BIO 303:WP:BIO 295:WP:BIO 287:WP:BIO 240:Delete 184:Tibi08 1097:Hetar 1031:JoJan 893:Hetar 833:Kusma 613:Brian 599:Brian 580:Brian 528:WP:RS 508:Brian 463:Brian 453:WP:OR 441:WP:RS 437:WP:OR 393:Brian 43:: --> 16:< 1093:Keep 1072:Kept 1035:. -- 981:more 929:Nate 901:Keep 879:. -- 844:Keep 836:(討論) 811:real 755:Keep 735:Keep 710:Kept 675:Keep 665:talk 526:and 449:WP:V 433:WP:V 320:here 244:with 218:Nate 169:Keep 142:talk 138:user 117:Keep 100:talk 78:talk 71:Mets 32:< 969:Bob 938:(T) 926:Big 909:Bob 871:or 850:. 767:(t) 763:Zoz 657:AfD 408:.-- 353:All 227:(T) 215:Big 73:501 22:Log 1084:RN 1076:RN 1063:→ 932:37 797:-- 786:→ 712:-- 701:→ 697:→ 667:- 663:, 659:. 632:→ 451:, 447:, 439:or 435:, 377:, 221:37 148:) 144:• 140:• 134:~a 57:→ 815:_ 254:→ 248:← 136:( 80:) 76:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion
Log
August 9
August 11
Lonelygirl15
Notable YouTube users
Mets501
talk
19:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Lonelygirl15
August 9th
history
talk
Lonelygirl15
Isotope23
19:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Everyking
06:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
user
talk
contribs
11:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Everyking
04:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Bschott
Tibi08
08:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Everyking
04:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

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