Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 12

3493:"every British person knows" (my words) the posters and that it says "Your Country needs YOU". And anyone not fortunate to know it, or to be British, or a person, is probably even more nonplussed about why it should go to an entry about the Eurovision Song Contest. (Perhaps if they were Canadian or Australian and so on they might, but I am not sure these posters were ever published in the Empire outside the United Kingdom: that's exactly the kind of thing I would look up in this article). 6052: 5477: 5458: 4634: 3612:"well thanks for the monkey (five hundred quid) and I have also waived my fee and not claimed any expenses off the BBC for appearing here today", because charity, real charity, is a very private thing. So they look like idiots for getting £500 for their charity while getting paid, let's assume, at least four times that much for appearing (and 10% to the agent please), 2646:, with the language ones, a lot of ours lately seem to be with these, and I only really can have a stab at Latinate, Germanic and Finno-Ugric ones (I can guess some Estonian and Finnish from knowing a bit of Hungarian, but very much those are a guess but then I trace through their relative Wikipaedieattatok. Never needed to list at RfD for any of them, but 2513: 984:. Chinese speaker here. I was going to close this as keep but I figured I'd like to chip in some more research in case this RfD is referred to in the future, and I don't want to supervote. I agree that Ci Ling is the Pinyin transcription (without tones) of the Chinese title of this film. The case of ambiguity with 4509:. I am pretty sure we had one a few months ago for another country's "basic facts" in the same form, and that was deleted. I'd have a struggle to find it but other editors have better memories than I do. This is just clutter, anyone who wants to find facts, basic or otherwise, about Singapore will search for 3611:

if you want, but the "Celebrities" can end up looking nothing but schmucks, however well-meaning they are. They don't have any general knowledge because they work in television. They, I hope, genuinely support the charities they nominate, but being nice people, I also hope, they can't say on the show

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has pointed out, it makes more sense to do a retarget. Even as I pointed out below, the BBC have named the national selection shows that many different things now that a more "unified" title which is already in existence is much better. That way all the shows various names - and no doubt the BBC will

1704:. Nice find. It took me three attempts to spot the error, the word before it threw me off as I switched languages at that point (not consciously, only kinda in post mortem I realised what my brain did and why I missed it: explain it after this closes). I refer you as usual to my grand old gentleman, 1952:

I'm glad to see better sourcing but I still don't see why Knowledge (XXG) needs to create a redirect as a search term. If Sandstein's sentence is in the USIA article it'll be found there. The redirect will now serve as a magnet for ne'er-do-wells to begin assembling an unwatched article based on a

4143:, I happened to notice, and he never wrote for them (I think) but almost certainly was mentioned by them, and definitely he quoted from them; I haven't checked the Orwell target but don't need to cos I can see why that would be linked one way or another, I just picked that more-or-less at random. 266:

housekeeping, the whole point of Draft space is to fiddle about but once finished to delete things out of it. I think a bot or somesuch tends to run over them anyway, I have had a few notifications when I have left dangling translations in Draft that I have abandoned or just completely forgotten

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If as you say the name is circulated on websites (I only read the Gizmodo story), then people will likely search for it. And it is only if the redirect is deleted that the page will be unwatched and may then give rise to an article (which I agree there seems to be no basis for).

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because the onus is on someone to add content to the article not to remove it. Since you have given a source, and I am sure I can find more others given the time, I think best that I work on this a bit in a sandbox. Really I think the defining point is that what would be

4113:, this paper is far less well known; as it's sometimes used as a source, it's not surprising that its incoming links dominate other uses (plus, just guessing, incorrect incoming links may have been fixed at some point). Not the main topic, so retarget the redirect. 1251:

The only mention at the target is " Afternoon or evening papers, once common but now scarce, are aimed more at commuters and office workers". Not true, not sourced, just a one-sentence unsourced piece of rubbish which I can happily remove on those grounds alone.

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This is very misleading. Hispanos "are people of colonial Spanish descent in what is today the United States". But not all Hispanic Americans of Spanish or Mexican origin would qualify as hispanos. I don't think there's a good place to retarget this; we have a

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they look like idiots because nobody ever expected them to be good at quizzes, they expected them to be good at telling us the weather or how to cook an omelette or whatever it might be. This strange idea that if you are a "celebrity" you are somehow better

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At least in the UK, an evening newspaper is a quotidian newspaper that is issued for reading in the evenings, traditionally: printed during the day, after the morning papers' print runs, and tended to be regional rather than national. Things like the London

3389:" in 2010 (The BBC mustn't have liked the word Eurovision in 2010). I know in 2016 it became "Eurovision: You Decide", which several sources show that in 2017 that too is to drop its "Eurovision" part, and has even been referred to under the 2010 title " 5824:) so I doubt it would be hard to find the target via search, except that "UA" is not mentioned at the target at all. Were a reader to think a "UA" was a "user agent" they would probably have the nouse to search that way; if not, it's probably a 1236:) and an evening newspaper. Traditionally, evening newspapers would have more up-to-date news about things that had happened overnight or until about midday that day, whereas dailies were usually finishing their "final" print run around 2am. 6006:. Hoever, back in 004 the search tool was even more awful than it is now, so I am not really sure we need all of these now. I'm not against them being kept but I think it's reasonable to list them when for nearly twelve years they targeted 1494: 1371:

since there is discussion of evening newspapers at the target. There's no confusion to be had, someone looking for information on evening papers, will find (admittedly scant) information on evening papers, but it's better than nothing.

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These commentaries were prepared by a group of USIA editors (...) A long-running commentary on economic developments was attributed for many years to a fictional Guy Sims Fitch, whose views were often cited authoritatively in overseas

4109:- I understand the nom is not really arguing for a change, but the newspaper is not the main topic for "Morning Star", and it's not called "The Morning Star", so the current redirect is unexpected and is not justified. Compared to 3602:

the final in two chances, let alone win the jackpot if you get there. All your reasonable travel and accommodation expenses paid, no doubt, and a day out in London, sure, but not the usually quite modest jackpot prize. But on

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since the target was where the draft ended up moving to after being published. (I remember that there were a few related discussions on RFD recently, but I cannot think of any specific ones right now; I can only remember that

3485:. Not at all where I would expect to end up. I would expect to end up at an article about the famous World War I posters. According to the RS in the article, no poster ever had the exact wording "Your country needs YOU", but 5997:

back in November 2004 with the ES "this should probably be split off from Web browser as it is a slightly wider term but redirecting there for now". Well, my sentiments exactly, twelve years later. The bulk of the target is

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Nominated a similar one yesterday that was redirecting from the Knowledge (XXG) namespace. Nothing links here except the userpage of the creator. Doesn't appear that anyone would type this in looking for the actual article.

3083:. Looks like they use the district name sometimes. Considering that India is huge country with many engineering colleges, there might be one whose name in short is "AWS". I guess it wouldn't really hurt to keep this one. -- 5422:. That seems more likely and what the product-token header in the HTTP message is essentially passing from client to server, but this is not specific to HTTP jargon, other things do seem to call it that, even if not many. 4362:, which is a disambiguation that lists a surprising amount of things that could plausibly be "The Morning( )Star". Redirecting our readers to the disambiguation would seem to satisfy the principle of least astonishment. -- 3332:. The UK selection shows have gone under so many names though over their 61-year history, that I can understand why it looks so messy and confusing. Gotta love us Brits for complexity, even our language is confusing lol. 4054:. Added mostly to get any kind of consensus on what we do with papers named after celestial bodies, this one seems a fairly obvious keeper but at least then would give us some kind of back marker for less-obvious ones. 3145:'s fault: if two articles are not notable on their own, fusing them doesn't suddenly make them notable, it's not some kind of atomic reaction. Just leads to more confusion as Ivanvector has well shown, coming as an 4533:

with these kinds of things is they create a maintenance burden years later once they diverge (retargeted, etc). The basic facts about singapore are in the infobox there at the top of the article, sheesh. How many

1659: 1310:, it says "evening paper" not "evening newspaper" but no big deal there. No it doesn't need to be sourced, but I am at liberty to remove it in which case there would be no mention of it because then I would take 1208:) have dropped the "Evening" out of their title. But as Wittgenstein says, "whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent", or put likewise, "if you don't know, shut up". There is no point in having this 3531:

especially have an annoying habit of doing that kind of thing, and have done for decades, now, that they invent a programme title and make a programme fit it. So someone will say "Why not have a show called

3489:, I think that is more likely the desired article than a slogan used in one UK campaign for the Eurovision Song Contest. It's not as if the campaign chose the slogan out of the blue, they chose it precisely 4146:

I haven't even !voted on my nom myself, I am genuinely trying to get some kinda general consensus on what we do with "The" newspapers that don't have "The" in the title and for which the noun after is a

3693:

I know, I do sometimes lead people up the garden path and then leave them there; but sometimes some use comes out of it because other editors chime in with things tha I hadn't thought of. I am eating my

2875:, according to Google and the odd article on Kuttikattoor. Kozhikode is a nearby city, thus readers might look for this according to that name, or be confused about its actual location, much like how 3823: 1843:

and it's now making the rounds on other websites. Without RS I don't see why we would keep this redirect. Redirects, after all, are a backdoor for IPs to create content without going through AfC.

559: 5154:. Maybe retarget there? Admittedly, the current target is probably what most users are likely to be looking for anyway, but I don't really fancy the idea of a misspelling hatnote at the top of 2642:. For now let's just differentiate the French and English ones, I am aware of the "native" ones if I may put it that way for brevity, I make a start and report back. Thanks for all your help, 1556:

nonsense in English, anyway, with the "and" instead of the "or" (what, they had to have the mother's side from Spain and the father's from Mexico, or what?) Even the somewhat-more-sensible

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or similar, that I could find. It would have been less confusing had the real world made a larger distinction between the French and English words and uses thereof, but it ain't the case.

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camelcase. Since search is pretty much always case-insensitive now, this is dead and should be given a decent burial. I don't buy the argument that "something is old therefore keep it"

2815: 322:, pending community consensus for how to deal with all draftspace redirects. Deleting this particular redirect does nothing when there are several thousand redirects just like it. -- 1712:

was to delete "with special prejudice against those that mix English and German (e.g., "Fürst of", "Prince zu")". (Yes, this is Spanish not German, but I assume the same applies).

3242: 2374:, I might DAB that for the language, people etc like is done for the English one. It may be instructive to find out how the French Wikipédia deals with this... anyway I've added 3536:" and we end up with a series about restoring antique fireplaces, or a consumer rights programme about sell-by dates on fresh produce will be called "The Good, the Bad and the 4861: 3857: 5129: 461:

Nominated for deletion as the name "IOS 6 Maps" is a recently created redirect that is founded on an invented misnomer that has never been used to refer to the software. –

1686:. Spanish clearly has affinity for this topic, but replacing just one word in the English phrase with a Spanish one looks like it makes for a very unlikely search term. 1323:

in the dailies i.e. overnight printed would be fleshed fuller in the evening papers. I don't think that subtlety or rather obvious thing is brought out these days with

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s like 短刺菱蟹 "short spike chestnut crab", 长手菱蟹 "long hand chestnut crab", 强壮菱蟹 "strong chestnut crab" etc. So it would be wrong to refer to any of them as "ci ling".

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OK, if we now deleted this, the case-insensitive search engine will take anyone straight that DAB anyway. So, thanks for making that, but I think we can then now

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Lots of things have product tokens. Products, for example. Gsearch is a bit clouded by mirrors etc to here but it seems to be used reliably as a synonym for

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about HTTP user agents (of which I guess WWW user agents are a subset) so my "UA is not at target" niggle is easily remedied by just putting "(UA)" in the

4468: 4524: 3049: 2918: 488: 2931:(or anywhere else) so it goes from being harmless to being mildly harmful to list it somewhere it isn't (but I guess we have analogues with things like 5604:. This averages just over 1 hit a day, so it is borderline noise level. No internal links. With the Neelix redirects, consensus seems to be to delete 3884: 5128:

because of the absence of same in another lettercase. For myself I make loads of typos (but rarely genuinely don't know how to spell something), but

21: 5183: 4706: 3630: 3141:. There's still a bit of a mess at the targets because of the move with combining Kuttikkatoo with Velliparamba some years ago, but that is none of 267:

about, so it is quite likely it would be deleted out of the usual housekeeping. But since it was not thus done, we might as well do it now. I think

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There aren't multiple AWH Engineering College branch articles or other AWH Engineering Colleges to discuss, so this is unnecessary specification.

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was wrong, our telly is nothing but "celebrities" and "reality shows", no real intelligent telly at all. We even have the celebrity reality show,

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and so on. In these modern times, many of these titles no longer are printed for evening consumption and some such as Cambridge Evening News (now

1114: 3996: 3552:, what could we do with that?" Ta-da! However their current habit is to think by putting "Celebrity" in front of any programme title makes it 3328:"Your Country Needs You" is the current title for the shows televised to find the UK entrants for Eurovision, which at the moment falls under 2485: 1483: 4139:. Yes, a lot of the articles are for references from contemporary writers of the time when this paper was in its heyday. There's a link from 2600:, well, I don't know either. If it's retargeted to a SIA, then that had better list all the creoles of the two places (and have a title like 1519: 795:. I am not sure if we generally redirect for transliterations of foreign-language terms. Definitely has affinity with the target. We do have 4922: 4842: 17: 5315: 2250: 1816: 5608:

words, and I don't see how this differs from that consensus just because it happens not to have Neelix' hand in it. (Our consensus should

623:- Given how much this term is used, I think we have a pretty reasonable case of 'redirect from incorrect name'. I'm not positive, though. 4151:

for something else. Obviously we will have to take each case-by-case but if we found some kinda rules of thumb it helps to see where the

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that it means the posters. There is a hatnote at the target, but beyond that it does not explain at all why the competition is called "

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readers, but I imagine compromises had to be made: nevertheless, we needn't have them spread to the articles or redirects about the

1913: 1872: 1648: 4529:(it doesn't have to have parentheses to disambiguate something). It's kinda harmless but clutter. The reason I tend to be rather a 2467:

replace the singular with a tiny SIA listing both the French and English creoles, but that might be even more confusing, not sure.

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is a very sad thing to contemplate. I love to watch programmes about experts being expert. I learn things from them. I am pitched

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No need to keep this as the title of the redirect is just not useful. I am also not aware of any book by this name either. --

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to make newspapers and news bulletins the size to fit the news, rather than the other way around. A policy I wholly endorse.

1271:"evening newspaper" can always be highlighted and anchored in that Daily section. I don't believe it needs to be sourced for 962: 914: 809: 644: 574: 531:

not a formal name or nickname by the company, if the only coverage is a tech article speculating on the name of the product.

2939:" when DABbing a title). I hadn't noticed that the link in the article to "Kuttikatttoor" (what a lovely name!) actually is 2928: 5966: 1557: 760: 3573: 3101: 2540: 2059: 2005: 866: 651: 595: 472: 289: 5932: 5898: 4518: 5677: 5508: 5268: 5006: 4820: 4665: 4427: 3952: 3776: 3201: 2772: 2158: 1875:, to the article. That mention seems to be contested, but even so the redirect seems useful as a possible search term. 1758: 1618: 1453: 1058: 702: 395: 75: 5864: 5841: 5699: 5638: 5634: 5621: 5530: 5431: 5409: 5294: 5229: 5204: 5167: 5155: 5141: 5098: 5041: 5028: 4967: 4950: 4781: 4753: 4687: 4607: 4590: 4557: 4500: 4449: 4388: 4371: 4348: 4291: 4231: 4122: 4096: 3975: 3912: 3898: 3804: 3737: 3733: 3707: 3688: 3666: 3585: 3502: 3447: 3426: 3407: 3372: 3342: 3319: 3280: 3227: 3162: 3127: 3119: 3092: 3063: 3037: 3004: 2988: 2898: 2858: 2794: 2733: 2715: 2692: 2667: 2629: 2566: 2558: 2529: 2501: 2476: 2422: 2393: 2353: 2194: 2119: 2104: 2085: 2077: 2050: 2023: 1990: 1968: 1943: 1887: 1858: 1795: 1787: 1721: 1695: 1640: 1579: 1543: 1475: 1414: 1406: 1381: 1359: 1343: 1297: 1261: 1245: 1093: 1019: 976: 947: 926: 884: 857: 840: 836: 823: 739: 731: 663: 632: 628: 613: 586: 550: 515: 498: 482: 465: 417: 356: 348: 331: 307: 280: 242: 206: 173: 151: 97: 2976: 2708:"Guiane Creoles" because there only seems to be one such language that is correctly referred to as "Guiane Creole". 5190: 5119: 5047: 3851: 3846: 3817: 6003: 4850: 2958: 993: 788: 5612:

differ on whether something is or is not a "neelix redirect", only our procedure for dealing with them swiftly.)

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this, not because it is wrong but because it is clutter (otherwise, retarget to the DAB Uanfala made and mark as

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for anyone typing this and ending up there. Also, it doesn't appear to be the current title, and wasn't called "

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shouldn't be a problem because this species doesn't have its own article on the English Knowledge (XXG) yet (

4170: 2809: 1904: 1193: 848:, plausible search term for someone who has the transliteration but doesn't know the English translation. -- 4457: 4148: 5630: 5225: 4603: 3729: 3561: 3516: 3088: 3076: 2445: 2406: 2283: 1324: 1189: 832: 624: 88:

pending consensus as to whether redirects left from page moves out of the Draft namespace should be kept.

5629:- There's the fundamental question of "Is it truly helpful?", which this fails. I also support deletion. 4152: 4043: 2954: 1709: 5673: 5504: 5264: 5002: 4816: 4695: 4661: 4423: 4118: 3972: 3948: 3772: 3642: 3604: 3541: 3533: 3197: 2768: 2712: 2154: 2116: 1754: 1614: 1449: 1054: 1016: 959:, I've missed you. If Siuenti says keep, it means keep. One more off the Neelix list, about 20000 to go. 698: 462: 391: 71: 5825: 4186:

the full and correct name of the paper (although often for disambiguation purposes in the US is called

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a day. Catch it while we can. If kept, see you all in five years time when someone has retargeted it.

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project, and I think the question was about precedence regarding these "Draft:" namespace redirects.)

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This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 12, 2016.

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2009_December_23#Alfred_Candidus_Ferdinand_Windischgratz

1339: 1197: 2597: 2452: 2239: 2182: 259: 5993:. I think they fall under the same head of not having "UA" at the target. They were all created by 5837: 5617: 5427: 5405: 5200: 5137: 4938: 4769: 4578: 4553: 4344: 4287: 4227: 4092: 3703: 3678:

eat your snickers! You've gone off tangent on some BBC trivial nostalgia. Making me feel old. LOL.

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hits on Google News link the term to the target, don't see why anyone will vote todelete this. -

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but most if not all internal links are in fact to the British newspaper so I assume this is by

3594:(a brilliant format, btw, things that must be right but that other people don't know, a reverse 2993:

I did that, Kuttikkattoor wasn't linked at all before, and I didn't know that redirect existed.

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and for the English there is no IW to an article on French, so that doesn't help much either.

985: 895: 5994: 5221: 5163: 4963: 4599: 4267: 3681: 3549: 3440: 3400: 3335: 3312: 3084: 2841:(neelix redirect). It's not in Kozhikode, it's 10 km away (according to the article). It's in 2625: 1910: 943: 654: 5955: 5672: