Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 20

671:. I did not waste your time. I actually checked up all the links, I checked up all the variations, I listed them all here, I asked they don't suddenly become blue to invalidate my argument and essentially kick the bucket from under me, which has happened before. I set out my stall like a nice little conjecture: with saying we have some in one kind of english, some in another kind of english, but neither in both. That is a perfectly reasonable argument, and indeed I went out of my way even to offer a suggestion to how we may solve the problem, because it is not just 945:, my eyesight is not so good and the broad strokes of the hira are easier for me than the narrow ones of kata). You have here probably the only resource on the whole of EN:WP who has some kind of idea of what Hungarian means. There was one today well it will be yesterday now and I have to follow that one up, but haven't got around to it because of our little argy-bargy. Let it settle, let it go. Let's just carry on, you keeping, me proposing for deletion and retargeting etc. You haven't even commented on 488:. Perhaps the best solution is to create them, in this case, but my search for "four-colour map problem" came up with no results, strangely. I doubt it will now repeat that behaviour, because it will probably now find this discussion: you have to believe me when I did it, I got zero results. I note it simply so I can report it somehow, but I don't really know how to do that. Pretty obviously withdrawn, I never intended it really to be deleted. But my reasoning for 859:. But I don't mind pointing out procedure to you, I am only a non-admin myself. I still think one delete and two keeps doth not a consensus make. Most regulars here are not even awake at weekends. We won't get consensus until about Tuesday evening UTC at the earliest. Let it run. "Redirects usually are listed for about seven days"... I think it says something somewhere, I may be thinking of PNT though 4896: 3779: 3512: 3019: 1779: 1538: 267: 248: 229: 3242: 890:

do not put it in bold and so on, so that is not taken as a not vote. I am glad that misunderstanding is cleared up. No hard feelings, let's carry on shall we, you with keeping everything and me with deleting everything. Truly, I am not a deletionist, but as the search engine gets better the redirects get worse, they

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hatnote – but what good even would that do? It would be saying "We now have two disambiguations. Messieurs et mesdames, faites vos jeux, please now place your bets, which of the two disambiguation pages should you like to try first?". I really can't think of a term more common than "the sun" that has

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Nominated for deletion as this redirect is unnecessary as its function is covered by the current name of the article which has details on the subject's past in its history section. Additionally, all former names of the article subject already individually redirect to the current article name and the

4006:

You continue to obstinately disregard the views and reasoning expressed in the two Afds and the consequent decisions to delete. Your supposed examples of countless uses of the term in reliable sources to mean one particular and specific thing was just cherry-picking of disparate texts that happen to

2853:

This has been redirected to several pages throughout its history, but never discussed at RfD. I would suggest deletion and possibly salting it. This is because effectively, any target is bound to be a POV as a group that someone identifies as a "cult" may not be viewed by everyone as such and a "new

889:

No problem. I said myself that I didn't want it deleted. It didn't mean I wanted it withdrawn. If I meant that I would have not voted for withdrawn (I do do that, you may have noticed, with some of the redirects from Neelix that I list here when I list as sometimes not sure or delete. I deliberately

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yet, because I as nom, you as closer, and someone else who is annoyed for wasting their time, has commented, and that someone else is the person who created it. That was a supposition that I will withdraw it if there are reasons to withdraw it. The reasons to delete it still stand. You can call it a

713:

You did indeed ask me, and any one else who bothered to read this request for discussion, to comment when you posted it. We're all volunteers. None of us are required to come here. I don't normally have any dealings here, and all your actions have done is convinced me not to spent any time on this

854:

Not obvious to me. Show me where I wrote "withdrawn" in bold at the start of a comment, or indeed where I wrote it in bold anywhere in a comment. Show me. I have pointed out to you where you closed it and what you said. Show me. You are wasting my time because I was doing a four colour map for the

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made that comment on 9 March 2012 and it had been rumbling for years before that). So I very much doubt an RfD will achieve any lasting effect. Resignedly, I say keep, but this should probably be sorted once for all at some higher level. The page was edit-protected (by DMacks) from 9 March to 28

658:

I am not wasting anyone's time. I regularly contribute to RfD and I spend hours checking through redirects and following them up. What you mean, if you put it correctly, is "why are you wasting my time?" I am not. I didn't ask you to reply. I made my response, and I stick by it. If you choose to

4860:- "Don't make personal attacks" is a general idea, not that clearly defined, that applies in a bunch of different contexts. This includes not just Knowledge (XXG) but other Wiki websites as well as online video games, online educational platforms, et cetera. Deletion seems to be the right call. 643:

Why are you wasting our time with an abusive test case? I ignored the language variant issue because it is simply not a concern, and you didn't clearly mention that it was what you were interested in. If I remember correctly, we have redirects from some of the hyphenated and variant spellings

4497:

This redirect is not used in any articles anymore, so it is essentially an orphan. The game's title is well-known now, so I believe this redirect is no longer needed. Basically, I believe the page-move redirect has been around for a long enough period of time that it is now not needed.

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2260:. Were we to change the nominated one, we'd have redirects that differed only in lettercase that went to different targets. That's not impossible but I think a pretty strong case has to be made for doing that. I doubt anyone would argue that these should be deleted (per 920:

who is good at Chinese. I do French, Hungarian and a bit of German and a smattering of Spanish and a tiny bit of some others. Multilinguists do not get appreciated in any way at EN:WP, even though we do the gnomework tying all the Wikidata links together, pointing out

3878:

Obligatory RfD listing based on the fact that I'm recreating as redirect a page that has had two Afds that both resulted in delete outcomes. Quite frankly I don't understand why everyone keeps trying to wipe every mention of this term off the face of Knowledge (XXG).

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I should be glad if you would comment there, really I should. Really this is a proposal for WT:RFD but nobody looks at that, not even the regs like thee and me here. There's a discussion about what we do with foreign-language redirects going along somewhere that

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says (referenced) "Most sociologists and scholars of religion also began to reject the word "cult" altogether because of its negative connotations in mass culture". Yes, redirects don't have to be neutral, but they don't have to be downright misleading either.

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with the hyphen and couldn't find it, and it took me a few goes to search until I removed the "u" from "color" before I got there. So it does kinda block the search, for the search engine to take over its usual treat-hyphens-as-spaces-as-equals rule,

1946:) but has been stable since then. We'd probably be better off opening some full-blown discussion at somewhere more prominent than RfD, I don't know where: its talk page is red but really talk pages for redirects are almost invisible and despite what 964:

If {{WP:NOTPERFECT|Knowledge (XXG) were perfect]], there would be zero redirects. The search engine would be perfect, and everyone who had a thought would be taken to their information before typing it. It's not. Our job, as I see it, is to

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I don't believe them to be relevant. Both the 2015 and untitled game redirctes were deleted when they were no longer accurate, however in this case no one is disputing the 2017 release date. The 2016 redirect below is a another story

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Two Afds have demonstrated the overwhelming view that this is not seen to be a term that is in significant use for this topic or any of the other topics that you have claimed it is. Yet you stubbornly recreate it in the face of this?

1994:. The most notable newspapers at the proposed target that might challenge this for primary topic all do not actually call themselves "The Sun", but have some qualifier (e.g. Toronto Sun, Vancouver Sun, Baltimore Sun, Daily Sun). ---- 1031: 1969:. There are many such newspapers, current and discontinued. Knowledge (XXG) should be a timeless work, not obsessing over the recent, the older newpapers are as notable as the current. Recentism is a bias to avoid. -- 5392:

for transparency & history reasons + "Redirects are cheap". It is no harm to keep it, but we would lose an interesting detail abour how Knowledge (XXG) search was optimised in 2002/2003 by senior editors like

3584: 459:. What I said about links etc and so on are all correct, this is exactly the justification for many a listing, but I presume you guessed I was not entirely foxed about it. However, I actually searched for 779:. Because I said I will withdraw it does not mean I said withdraw it: had that been my !vote, I would have struck my nomination and !voted to withdraw it. What is so difficult about this? There is no 1407:. Phonetically, this is extremely similar (or the same depending on accents) to how it is properly said, so this will aid searches. Highly unlikely that "Boner law" can refer to anything else. ---- 973:

that editors try to do that in different ways. Otherwise I give up and get paid $ 200 an hour for translating rather than translate template markup before I get to the first word. See discussion at

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wins, then "The Sun" (and "The World") should go to the DABs about newspapers etc. thus called, since by our own lights, lunar or solar, we call the heavenly bodies just "Sun" and "Moon" as their

2020:. "Sun (newspaper)" is disambiguated, but still too ambiguous to refer to any one target. When this happens, it's best to retarget to the most relevant disambiguation (or in this case, a list). -- 393:

so I have no idea what this means. I guess it is some strange kind of English; "problem" seems to occur interchangeably with "theorem" in the article as if they were the same thing, but in the

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that includes a link to the newspaper and the DAB page. Given that the Sun is a proper noun, it's not an unreasonable search. Since the Sun is much more prominent than The Sun, it seems like

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This topic has gone through 2 successful AfDs, 1 successful speedy deletion and is now up for another speedy deletion... over a short period of time. Can we stop having this page recreated?

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as-is since "Year 1" should match "Year One". I'm not sure the current article at the title is the primary topic for "Year One", but that's a different discussion for a different time. --

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This has undergone several edit wars but was never discussed at RfD. IMO people searching for this term would likely be looking for a newspaper or something else on the disambiguation. -

2131: 1786: 1545: 274: 255: 236: 39: 34: 2887:- The distinction between a 'cult' and a 'religion' is a fuzzy area, indeed, but redirects don't have to be neutral. Nor even strictly accurate, really... my instinct is to retain this. 3973:, and for that matter neither are disambiguation pages. The use of this term falls well within the threshold needed for a redirect at least, so there shouldn't be much else to prove. -- 974: 5492: 3578: 894:

more. This one genuinely did with me, and of course I know how to spell color or colour and perhaps I was rather arch with the nomination, but have you tried to get anything out of

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capitalized version - The reason I created the redirect is because I was searching for the PM and thought it was spelt "Boner". I don't think I'm the only one to make this error.

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it. I do not suggest the solution is to add the redirects with the hyphens. I will happily withdraw, of course, but I should like to have it recorded that those that are red

437:, plausible search term. The article makes plenty of references to the fact it's a problem and the fact that it involves four colors and a map. There's nothing wrong here. -- 788:

if you like, but that is exactly how Neelix redirects were found out, because we have to think about what we do with these kinds of things. I was just asking people to

3827:. Consolidating recent discussions there is a clear consensus for deletion on the grounds that 'British independence' is a distinctly different concept from 'Brexit'. 3630:

is objecting to, but article titles on en-wiki should be in English. I move the page to what appeared to be the English equivalent, and it was subsequently redirected

1917:, unfortunately. Looking at the internal links, they are overwhelmingly for the British newspaper. It would have been far better, in my opinion, to have the target at 904:

pinged me about, I pinged various others. RfD is quite top-heavy with foreign-language speakers. I made my case there, that translators and foreign language speakers

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out of sheer cussedness but I'm pretty sure they are fine as they stand. After all, the newspapers were named after the heavenly bodies, not the other way around.

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and so on, presumably the aim is to keep the poor old fellow cluttered at the top of seven hundred hatnotes. Sure, it means that we only have a hatnote there for

355: 5128:, the first year of Adam and Eve, Year 1 of King X. The search function handles partial phrases best. The redirect prevents the search engine from engaging. -- 5234: 511:

Definitely a plausible redirect. The 4 colour map theorem has only been a theorem since it was proved in 1976. Before that it was a conjecture, or problem.

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as a plausible search term and an appropriate redirect target. We explain the difference in the associated article, so there's minimal risk of confusion.

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It's been used countless times in various news outlets, some of which would be considered reliable sources. Regardless, redirects aren't required meet

4760: 3365: 1853: 21: 1658: 4468: 4237: 625:. What I said about hits and links etc are correct, and many have been deleted by those criteria, many that I myself have nominated. I am not 4007:

have the two words next to each other and overhelmingly and demonstrably did not convince the debate. Please have the grace to accept that.

17: 616: 388: 2830: 176: 3195:- This appears to be misleading in an unhelpful kind of way, and there's really no good reason to keep it. Deletion is the right call. 4327: 3276:. COI is not the same as corruption, not even close, so it is incorrect and as such prone to make a difficult situation even worse. - 3226: 2744: 2000: 1665: 1413: 1378: 1040: 2495: 644:

already. If you want the rest of them filled in then add them, and if you want to propose a new subcat then do so. Don't play games.

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I don't see how this is a plausible search term, but people searching this would be more likely be looking for something to do with

1923:. But as it stands, there are about 4,000 articles that link through this, and the vast majority look to me like things the British 2628:. Alternatively, delete these redirects and allow the internal search engine to do its job, which it appears to me to do well. -- 933:

and many other regs here whose names I forget but who are regs here and take what it might be in Japanese or somesuch, you have to

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unless you want to learn Japanese. (I have learned Japanese to a basic level, but mostly forgotten it, but I can still understand

4559:- The game is coming out in 2017, not 2016, and I'm wary of keeping redirects that appear to be as factually misleading as this. 4143: 4025:

applies for neologisms also I guess. Sooner or later this redirect has got to point somewhere. No use arguing any more for now.--

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Ambiguous since there are no entries on the list that are named this title. I seem to be getting a lot of search results about

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That's entirely back to front: for the article, then dab, now redirect to exist or be retained the onus for proof is that it

3466:, but this term is pretty vague otherwise. It doesn't need "The" in front as that would imply just one, or a specific title. 3129: 2866: 2193: 1896: 1194: 2499: 764: 748: 737: 4463: 998:

You're ranting nonsense...at least nothing related to the redirect in question. You need to stop, it's quite ridiculous. --

598: 5409: 5113: 2158: 1150: 3392:. But I believe that is not a common name even for that specific entry. (I am currently expanding the target article). - 2951: 2666: 2596:. I don't believe that an average person searching for "The Sun" is more likely to be looking for the newspaper than the 2038: 484:

red, when I searched, and I had to search in Damyank spelling for it to get me. I was surprised they didn't exist in the

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per AngusWOOF. This seems to be the most likely target, and the other possibilities are already covered in the hatnote.

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nonsense: Three hits in the last ninety days, well below bot noise level. Nothing links to it beyond this discussion.

334: 202: 184: 150: 97: 3080: 3412:- I'd rather just let people search given that there doesn't seem to be one clear-cut instance of a track known as " 5516:

formatting for this redirect is clumsy and unusual (placing dates in a country disambig, separated by a hyphen). –

2439: 5106: 4105: 3434: 168: 118: 4100:- The concept of political independence for the British isles is a broad historical one beyond just the current 2735: 2479: 1991: 1881: 560:. One has one blue, expect others to go the same. The ones I said or implied were red, were red when I said so. 5406: 5110: 3359: 2602: 2529: 2351: 1950:

etc says I wouldn't recommend putting anything on a redirect's talk page if you actually expect it to be read.

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who wonders what other variations we have, and whether they are useful or harmful or neither? Why can you be a

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There was hardly any proof presented that this term is not in significant use other than a few vague claims.--

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Seems, per above, back to front logic. I'd have thought the biggest broad meaning was colonial independence

3832: 1486: 607: 460: 398: 180: 2483: 2471: 2412: 2400: 2265: 5530: 5349: 4861: 4674: 4560: 4390: 4109: 3844: 3681: 3417: 3196: 2888: 2321: 2294: 1703: 1668: 1447: 1381: 1249: 402: 174: 3949: 3680:- I'm not seeing a particular link between this organization and China that would merit such a redirect. 3354: 2347: 2017: 780: 160: 5517: 5447: 5189: 4923: 4713: 4429: 4182: 4072: 4030: 4012: 3977: 3932: 3914: 3900: 3884: 3806: 3539: 3463: 3320: 3046: 2783: 2091: 1806: 1687: 1565: 1292: 1111: 761:

on the closure, a genuine one not just buggering about, I got an ec with adding my comment before tavix

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for people who are looking for cults other than new religious movements, and in particular because as

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This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 20, 2016.

5486: 4994: 4830: 4826: 4139: 3720: 3441:. I don't suggest retargeting to either, and a dab page would be useless. If either becomes notable, 2913: 2699: 676: 4022: 162: 5553: 5372: 5133: 5044: 4645: 4627: 4585: 4356: 4067:

Can you clarify that you are conceding now that the redirect be deleted? In which case, thank you.

3740: 3635: 3473: 3260: 3179: 3152: 3119: 2938: 2653: 2633: 2580: 2551: 2302: 2235: 1974: 1955: 1321: 1248:- This is, as stated above, unhelpful given the ambiguity. We should just be rid of this redirect. 1184: 1064: 982: 946: 864: 821: 801: 797: 793: 704: 634: 565: 543: 497: 424: 2297:). It's all a bit unsatisfactory, I agree, but I can't think of a solution that would be less so. 1371: 926: 485: 469: 5025: 3828: 3450: 3124: 2860: 2717: 2498:, with all due respect they know what the sun moon and earth are, any more than if we asked what 2341: 2187: 1890: 1471: 1189: 756: 349: 112: 2711:

per SmokeyJoe. Readers looking for the topic in astronomy would not be searching for "The Sun".

2624:, as this case-sensitive combination overwhelmingly refers to a newspaper. "The sun" can go to 1446:- Yes, there's plenty of jokes that can be made about this, but the above arguments make sense. 2924:

confusing because we are here directing from the general to the specific, which is going to be

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Wikipedia_talk:Pages_needing_translation_into_English#monolinguals_and_translation_copy-editing

5313: 5286: 5258: 4544: 4509: 4313: 4278: 3960: 3573: 3221: 2739: 2694:- The star seems to be the primary topic, and the hatnote takes care of the rest of the cases. 2611: 2382: 2378: 1995: 1662: 1507: 1408: 1375: 1035: 875:

I just quoted where you said you withdrew and that you never actually wanted it deleted... --

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 21#Template:Corrupt (organization)

1681: 1619: 719: 684: 649: 516: 327: 4822: 3970: 2921: 2475: 2467: 2458:"). I imagine much of this terminology would have been much fought over, e.g. why does not 2396: 2360: 2261: 913: 680: 679:. If you can't see that my proposal for deletion is spurious, try rewriting RFD guidelines 416: 382: 4128: 3715: 3697:

English school in the US. No need for a Chinese (or any other foreign language) redirect.

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really. And maybe try some variations for themselves. Or is it just me who does that. Cf.

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is absolutely sound: no links, three hits in ninety days. Many a redirect has thus gone.

394: 5547: 5402: 5366: 5129: 5038: 4844: 4805: 4639: 4617: 4608: 4579: 4373: 4346: 3734: 3646: 3631: 3467: 3250: 3217: 3169: 3142: 2934: 2909: 2904:. My instinct is to delete it because there are all kinds of other cults describied at 2649: 2629: 2570: 2547: 2298: 2225: 1970: 1951: 1318: 1058: 993: 978: 860: 832: 817: 700: 630: 561: 539: 493: 420: 415:, so none of those is any help to me to divulge what this might mean, encyclopeedicly. 5327: 5263: 5021: 4999: 4945: 4785: 3787:

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 31#Land Force Northern Area

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for I believe that is the primary topic, the period of history is never "year 1". -

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about a "long-term slow-moving war over target of this redirect." (quite long-term,

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 31#Graduation in absentia

3085: 2607: 2525: 1943: 1624: 1503: 949:, yet. Jump to it, things to be done. Ony another seven million redirects to go.... 930: 922: 5504: 5246: 4982: 4904:

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 31#Template:Orthographic

4772: 4486: 4255: 3867: 3596: 3377: 3103: 2842: 2486:] wins, they should stay where they are. I think they should stay where they are. 2170: 1865: 1642: 1356: 1168: 367: 166: 130: 4345:. This redirect is currently correct in its disambiguation, and is thus helpful. 5465: 5398: 5125: 5065: 4206: 3698: 3557: 1938: 1934: 1213: 1053: 813: 776: 715: 645: 512: 318: 275:

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 November 4#Indian Independence

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in significant use. You twice, overwhelmingly, failed to convince the debate.

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the miscapitalized version as redundant and annoying. Restore the other one.

4840: 4816: 4801: 4533:, both of which resulted in a "delete", may be relevant to this discussion. 4369: 4302:, both of which resulted in a "delete", may be relevant to this discussion. 4108:, a struggle for independence which had notable effects upon later history. 2917: 2404: 1367: 1338: 1313: 809: 622: 4821:

I think the nominator was saying it wouldn't be appropriate to retarget to

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

5086: 4964: 4941: 2961: 2676: 2463: 2048: 1824: 942: 938: 785: 2648:, per Gavia Immer. Summed it up perfectly, and nothing has changed. -- 1055: 3027:

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 30#IGI Global

2317: 2313: 856: 696: 667:. I didn't waste anyone's time. I wasted a tiny bit of server time but 595:

out of RfD's remit, I wonder if to subcat and create template to match

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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per nom. A (2017 video game) redirect will probably be created anyway.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2010 January 26 § The Sun

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 November 3#Johnadams

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Pretty obviously withdrawn, I never intended it really to be deleted.

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 November 3#Army.mil

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I stand corrected. I guess my search was obscured by Nokia phones. --

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