Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 July 4

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contends are detrimental to 31 KB (4,466 words) - 2017-02-05T05:58:33 America—Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:26:10 America — Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:35 America – Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete REDIRECT America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:47 America–Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:26:42 America - Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:28:11 America-Freedom to Fascism irects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete REDIRECT America: Freedom to Fascism To the same page name with diacritics: This is a redirect from 419 bytes (105 words) - 2017-04-22T11:40:56 America -- Freedom to Fascism irects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete REDIRECT America: Freedom to Fascism To the same page name with diacritics: This is a redirect from 417 bytes (105 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:53 America--Freedom to Fascism irects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete REDIRECT America: Freedom to Fascism To the same page name with diacritics: This is a redirect from 417 bytes (105 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:09 AMERICA - FROM FREEDOM TO FASCISM %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:28:05 America - From Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:59 America – From Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:27:41 America–From Freedom to Fascism %5B%5BWikipedia%3ARedirects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete redirect America: Freedom to Fascism 381 bytes (16 words) - 2017-05-18T19:26:22 Fascism and Freedom Movement The Fascism and Freedom Movement – National Socialist Party (Italian: Movimento Fascismo e Libertà – Partito Socialista Nazionale, MFL–PSN), called simply 3 KB (277 words) - 2017-04-19T19:44:46 America-From Freedom to Fascism irects+for+discussion%5D%5D+debate+closed+as+delete REDIRECT America: Freedom to Fascism To the same page name with diacritics: This is a redirect from 417 bytes (105 words) - 2017-05-18T19:26:56 Definitions of fascism What constitutes a definition of fascism and fascist governments is a highly disputed subject that has proven complicated and contentious. Historians 45 KB (6,137 words) - 2017-06-28T05:51:06 Aaron Russo (category American activists) Libertarian-leaning political documentaries including Mad as Hell and America: Freedom to Fascism. After a six-year battle with bladder cancer, Russo died on August 6 KB (623 words) - 2017-03-20T21:57:38 Fascism and ideology The history of Fascist ideology, or fascism and ideology, is long and involves many sources. Fascists took inspiration from as far back as the Spartans 164 KB (21,457 words) - 2017-06-24T19:42:02 Neo-fascism Neo-fascism is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigration 27 KB (3,008 words) - 2017-06-25T18:36:00 Fascism Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control 171 KB (16,736 words) - 2017-06-27T12:34:48 View (previous 20 | next 20) (20 | 50 | 100 | 250 | 500)

5199:. If a "unnumbered" licence is appropriate (can't I just say "I licence under CC-BY-SA"?) then make it a full template. If a licence needs to be "numbered" then turn into a warning and help to choose one. In any case, keep as little redirects from different spellings as needed. ("Template:CC-BY-SA license" is probably best replaced and deleted) Uses must, really must, be assessed case by case in order to check, to the best of our judgement, what was the intended licence placed by the original user of the redirect/template. We should not change someone else's licence (Looong time ago I uploaded a few pictures, with whatever licence I felt better by then, right or wrong. Then some editors decided to change both the template's content and the template in use in those images. I doubt I will ever again upload any image. Not much of a loss, I know :-) but we do not want to lose more and more contributors, do we?) - 2969:. Finding articles despite some variation on punctuation or dashes is the obvious work for a search engine. We do not need to create every possible remotely plausible variation. This redirect have the exact opposite effect of the intention of having redirects. Redirects should help readers find the right page, instead if I type "america freedom fascism" in the search box I get 10 suggestions, all of them some of these redirects. So we are telling readers that we have tens of pages with similar names, which should they try? Then when they try one and another the pages are... the same? That is confusing... Also, this is taking up space in the search suggestions, thus taking away the chance for the reader to find other pages with similar words in the title. - 4769:- this is not a delete !vote, only an "action is required" comment. Thryduulf is correct that we shouldn't blanket-delete the template because it will break many licensing statements across the project. However BU Rob13 makes an urgent point with legal ramifications that this situation must be dealt with, as copyright is not a thing that we can get sort-of right, and many of these statements are already broken because they are legally ambiguous. Rob, is it safe to assume that transclusions of the template older than numbered versions of CC-BY-SA can be safely bypassed to 4377:. Consensus is clear that we shouldn't delete these redirects outright because we don't want to break licences of existing files. However, there is a desperate need to take these templates out of current use because the version of CC-BY-SA ought to be explicitly specified whenever one licenses a file under a version of it. Therefore the most appropriate action is to add a message to the template to show on files with current transclusions that they need to be migrated, and to show to prospective new users of these templates that they should use a different one. 4739:. Here, it's being developed at RfD since these are redirects. In other words, this is the normal sort of venue for the consensus discussion you're asking for. The reason we do this is to avoid influencing the XfD process (e.g. Delete: No transclusions anyway, might as well). I personally volunteer to handle bypassing these redirects once consensus is developed here to do so, and I'll do it before the redirects are deleted. It's a very easy task with AWB. There's no other venue particularly suited for such a discussion. ~ 6191: 6172: 3131: 4625:). By using this redirect, an editor may accidentally assign version number 1, the least developed version, as the appropriate free license when they really intended to mark the image as free under a different license. This should ideally be deprecated and turned into an error message that encourages use of one of the other templates. Note that all existing transclusions must be migrated over to 1620:- I respectfully disagree with AngusWOOF. If any person types those terms into the search box, it's far more likely that they're looking for the video games than the board games. We really should have a good article on Lego games generally, but in the meantime let's make ...video games the default and add a hatnote. - 5462:. The capitalisation is apparently seen as implausible and there's no evidence of it being attested, yet the redirect does receive some pageviews that remain unaccounted for. I don't see consensus either way, nor any prospect of the discussion evolving (it has received no input for almost two weeks). I'm closing it as 5062:. In copyright matters, any speculations about what someone may have meant are dangerous. We have several redirects here that produce, as an end-result, a by-sa 1.0 license on the corresponding image pages. Assuming uploaders may have possibly meant anything else is not sound. So from the perspective of a low activity 4239:

pages (note that the redirect title only has two puncts, rather than three, as you would expect from the usual spelling and as is present in the two links). Rather insignificant, but to be noted, is that it is also not the correct version, as the company is incoroprated as "Idol Minds, LLC" (1 comma,

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Keep single dash or single hyphen or ndash as long as there's a space between America and Freedom. This should satisfy those who are just searching by the cover title which displays no punctuation. Keep in mind that those who are looking up the title by search will receive options with the real title

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It's true I don't normally deal with TfD, but I do deal with with RfD daily and the convention is that we almost exclusively deal with redirects as they are, not as they might be in the future (certainly when nothing of that nature has been mentioned in the nomination). I don't see evidence of there

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I see that more variants have been added to the RFD, so I will update my stance on this. The dashes and hyphens are not used in the news articles or websites, not even Japanese-styled titles like America ~Freedom to Facism~, which would definitely encourage using the dash/hyphen. They almost all use

4896:

As noted above, I encourage deprecation to a warning message rather than outright deletion. This is redirects for discussion, after all, so I considered this to still be the right venue. This puts me in a bind. Our community norms surrounding templates say I may not bypass any of these redirects to

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that such discussions must be part of an XfD, so if this closes without consensus to accomplish a specific something, I effectively can't do anything with this template even though we all agree the current situation is very sketchy from a legal point-of-view. (As an aside, if no version number is

5003:

Apart from the fact that transcluding template redirects does slow down the website a tiny bit, this one creates legal ambiguity if people use it without reading the actual template page. So its transclusions should be cleaned up and this redirect be turned into an error message that transcludes

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specified after version numbers were introduced, we can't assume anything and the license is invalid entirely. There are some legally meaningful differences between versions, so we can't just guess. As a second aside, perhaps what should be happening here is that template redirects go to TfD.) ~

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All other files will need looking at individually to determine whether the correct license is 1.0, the latest version (as of the licensing date) or unspecified (which I think means the latest version as of the licensing date or any later version, but check that with a copyright specialist). This

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volunteer, you can merge them to a single redirect, you can replace them by the redirect target, you can delete all files as unlicensed, but what you cannot do is change a valid license statement to a warning or error message, or a different license statement, without subverting each uploaders'

3001:

You may create the page "America freedom fascism", but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered. America: Freedom to Fascism America: Freedom to Fascism is a 2006 film by filmmaker and activist Aaron Russo, covering a variety of subjects that Russo

6642:: The article had a section for this term at the time this redirect was created. So calling it "Neelix nonsense" is incorrect. This makes at least three redirects on RfD at present where people are not checking the revision history of the article in question before jumping to conclusions. — 949:

as a partial title match. I've yet to find evidence her being called "Reality Leigh" without her surname. Geo Swan's article gave me pause, but it's the second part of a quote that starts "Ms. Winner received her legal name — Reality Leigh Winner — from her biological father..."

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unless you can present evidence that this is notable and thus that we ought to delete it to encourage article creation. Aside from that situation, it's quite reasonable to redirect a song title to an article about its album, regardless of the offensiveness of the song title.

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Generally template redirects are fine here, but it really depends what you're trying to do - if it's part of a plan to reorganise templates then TfD is possibly better. In this case it seems like the better place for the discussion would be wherever file licensing is discussed

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per Richardcavell. Definitely don't think Lego board games are the primary topic for Lego games. It's much more likely to be the video games. This is especially the case, because these redirects do not capitalize "games", which is capitalized in the proposed alternate topic. A

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Having personally processed multiplentens of thousands of his redirects, I start from the position he had no clue though occasionally he got lucky and made a useful redirect. I believe we should have nuked the entire list and let people recreate useful redirects as needed.

4655:. Unless and until the nearly 500 transclusions (and any other links from file description pages and policies) are bypassed (and consensus should be sought for this before doing so) this needs to stay as it is. After that nominate it again and I'll consider other factors. 3860:. Google hits are about equally split between the artist and the plant genus but I think the artist should take precedence over the misspelling (even though it is very plausible), a hatnote will cater for those who were after horticulture rather than music. 4734:

I don't believe you're familiar with how things typically work surrounding template deletions/merges/etc. No-one is ever supposed to bypass template redirects, merge templates, etc. until there is consensus to do so. That consensus is typically developed

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I agree. This is the kind of list like notable alumni/students, not a complete list, so non-notables don't need to be included. The other artists in Spinning have articles because their work has charted. I don't see anything in Dutch Music Charts

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given the ambiguity. They shouldn't be deleted since CC By SA is a commonly known license type, so it's more useful to have a helpful reminder to use a more specific license than to leave those who would use these redirects with nothing. ----

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Many hits for either a "Master of Environmental Science" degree or the Maryland Environmental Service. I'm dubious any of these are notable but an early Pixar animation program is not going to be what very many people are looking for.

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having been any confusion about which license was intended either before or after the target was moved from this title to it's present location in 2013 so I'm inclined to keep it as is. However, I note that in January this year the

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is out of the question as the list there is only for artists that already have articles. A conceivable alternative would be the creation of an article about Bougenvilla, but there was one and it got deleted at AfD in October. –

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Hmm, last I checked, redirects for discussion would be the correct place to discuss redirects. That being said, it seems like it'd be a good idea to alert those places of this discussion if wider participation is warranted.

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Maybe, but it still goes to show that the search engine does not need help with the punctuation. And readers do not either (if they do they need to learn something much more basic than what "america--freedom:fascism" is -

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I would have favored the video games but because Lego Games has a specific branding, and that there's a physical list for Lego Games, it should stay there. The hatnote will redirect those looking for the video games. .

4022:. In this case it's clear that an article was moved, a new article was written on top of it, but the redirect left behind by the talk page of the old article remained. So I'm boldly closing this request and applying 4231:, though all three occasions on that page have been removed. The redirect is implausible, as it uses a variety of "LLC" usually employed nowhere, and probably steams from a typo of "L.L.C.", as taken off the 1285:

contained was a list of games that he had produced at the time. Given that he's listed as a producer in several video games articles, that same information is easily accessible via the search results. –

4841: 1999:, but this seems set to change with time, and for such a small issue I think it's better to get straight away to the expected long-term solution rather than leave it to be revisited in the future. – 4802:

Yes and no. Yes, that's what we should do. No, it's not "safe" any more than it's safe to apply this template in the first place. It won't harm anything further than already harmed to bypass to

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The discussion so far has been whether or not using a hyphen or dash is appropriate here. Since that would apply to several other redirects to the target, I'm including them for completeness.

2560: 2061:(double hyphens, no spaces, all caps). Due to the divergence of opinions between different groups of redirects, I'm considering the "delete all" !votes as implicitly supporting deletion of 863:

In the United States, children still get the surnames of their fathers in almost all cases, and I'm unaware of situations where children get surnames that don't belong to either parent. --

168: 6431:. Neither article mentions anything of the sort, so the redirect is more than useless, it's a confusing and misleading waste of time. Moreover, NOTDICT applies even given the foregoing. 126: 2234: 2192: 2400: 2316: 6245:. Both now contain mentions of the term, but the first article has more information and is the more specific of the two topics. Therefore, the redirect should be kept targeted at 2826:- Swapping out a colon for either dash or hyphen seems plausible enough, I suppose, even though the utility of these is probably marginal. I'm inclined to just leave them alone. 2480: 1345: 2600: 2520: 5228:

This looks sorely ripe for closure, but I'm relisting in an attempt to encourage further input before any decision is taken on a matter that might have important ramifications.

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The term hater is very common in rap music, so this redirect seems vague and useless. It could also be meant or seen to be an offensive reference to the group or their music.

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could refer to AM or FM stations equally. Although the AM and FM version seem to be sister stations so maybe an article can be created with a hatnote to the old FM station.

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per Nabla. If any are kept (and I can see there might be reasons for this to happen only for the spaced hyphen/dash ones), then they should probably be marked at least as

2152: 39: 34: 2440: 6237:. Discarding the delete !votes (as they were based on the the target not having a mention of the term, which has been corrected), we're left with two possible targets: 2110: 350: 3468:

seems like the best place to link to for the animation engine. But Menv will need to be mentioned there. Do you have any sources that say this is its predecessor? –

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Hmmm... wait... So we write a all bunch of variations, in order to help searching the right page, but then we instruct the search engine to ignore the variations? -

4572: 3748:- The artist has now been re-added to the page with a reference. Also, there is still no RFD notice on the page, which needs to be added as soon as possible. -- 1219: 1761:

and add a hatnote. Both targets seem equally likely, but the video games article receives an order of magnitude higher total pageviews than the board game one

6389:

this has to do with dog shedding, not dog grooming. Some dogs shed their entire coat in a short period of time. Term is used in a bunch of dog care books.

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Editors who participated in this discussion are encouraged to help notify uploaders of files with these templates and migrate the licences as appropriate.

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per nominator - 20 hits a year is reason enough to keep a redirect that is pointing to the correct target, this redirect gets five times that figure.

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version of the Creative Commons website homepage starts "On December 16, 2002, Creative Commons released version 1.0 of its Licensing Project...". I

5373: 2905:, same rationale as earlier. None have any significant activity: none have more than 1 hit in the last 30 days, most 0, one just gave an API error. 1523: 5595:- We have precedent for getting rid of these sorts of redirects. Even if this is a little bit helpful, I still think that we should get rid of it. 4873:

all references in policies and upload forms, etc. have been updated that it would be better to deprecate (as Commons has done) rather than delete.

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The term also attracts 4-9 views a day so it's not a completely made up term. On the flip side "blows their coat" doesn't have that many views.

6286: 4201: 4064: 3016:, you're seeing these bizarre results only because these redirects are all RfD-tagged now and the search engine treats them as normal pages. – 2228: 21: 2394: 2310: 356: 4109:

add project tags, as is normally done, and ideally also a note explaining that until October 2016 this was the title of the other article. –

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That was in response to the derivation of her name though. there is no evidence she is commonly called that outside of her family members.

2677:. Substituting a colon for a hyphen (with or without spaces) is far from uncommon, especially in environments were colons cause problems. 1343: 5738:

per Thryduulf. This in no way interferes with readers finding the page, and ALL CAPS stylizations are used by the company in some cases.

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It's not the only thing proposed in the discussion here, and where the !votes stray from that simple conversion, it becomes problematic.

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Those directly uploaded to, and first licensed on, en.wp after 10 December 2004 (when the template was changed to explicitly mention 1.0

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I've drafted a dab page below the redirect. There are plenty of sources about Menv being the successor (or predecessor?) to Marionette

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Delete ALL CAPS variants. This isn't helpful, otherwise you're setting a precedent to redirect every title in Knowledge from all caps.

2773:- does not appear to be in use, and likely because of where the punctuation occurs that this will do strange things to search results. 5749: 5660: 5187: 2761: 1681: 1166: 17: 6309:

This isn't a made up term, but the target article doesn't discuss this. Do we have any article that discusses this type of shedding?

5503: 5023: 3728: 3649: 3375:. It's very likely people will look up what this means when seen as postnominals or a degree type and it is mentioned in that list. 2626: 2146: 1278: 6402: 5150: 2841:

the colon. Some do not include the colon, and there was a foreign language site that used ellipses instead. So I would recommend:

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We typically delete first-middle name redirects. I haven't seen any indication that Winner is commonly known as "Reality Leigh".

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Deleting the dashes and hyphens where there are no spaces between America and Freedom like America-Freedom, America-From Freedom

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I don't see any news searches that use the dash or hyphen like that. And a general search will get to the book using the colon.

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These redirects have two pairs of parentheses in their titles, and I think are not correct ways of disambiguating two articles.

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is a different case. I also think that the many varieties of video games are far more known than that specific product series.

1713: 1652: 1589: 1481: 1373: 929: 852: 796: 685: 594: 247: 4844:, but based on the relevant points made there I think we can say that files using this template fall into several categories. 1354: 162: 6118: 5739: 5701: 3408: 3192: 1444: 1358: 1254: 479: 120: 2186: 1347: 6354: 6314: 4052: 3618: 3372: 3310: 2554: 2474: 2985:

PS this is what the search page look like when I serach for "america freedom fascism". How can this be helpful in anyway?

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There's a section where it talks about shedding, so I renamed it to Shedding and added the term in the paragraph there.

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was changed from the redirect it had been since 2008 to a warning, effectively deprecating the tag. That descision was

2175: 547:) and the article section it was later redirected to (after the original target was merged) hasn't existed since 2010 ( 6141: 5600: 5104: 4689: 3907: 3609: 2957: 2831: 2588: 2548: 2508: 2468: 2434: 2428: 2388: 2346: 2304: 2262: 2222: 2180: 2140: 2098: 1749: 1356: 999: 516: 266: 2594: 2543: 2514: 2463: 2104: 555:

but the code was previously used in (and better known for its use in) Doom, so Heretic isn't a good redirect target.

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onsite or Google search deals with this better. ALL CAPS just makes it harder for the reader to find the page.

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per Angus, draft available below the redirect. It could be argued that the present target is at the moment the

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per above. Despite the lack of ambiguity, the analysis above convinced me that such a redirect isn't helpful.

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as the board games are primary topic for this. There is also a hatnote on top for the Lego video games list.

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Before there were CC-BY-SA 2.0 or higher, was CC-BY-SA 1.0 actually called CC-BY-SA without version number?

5019: 4526: 4486: 4446: 4406: 3736: 1954: 1625: 1517: 617: 504: 196: 5578:- There is no need for this. Without this redirect, the user will still find what they were looking for. - 4195: 3514: 6436: 6137: 6036:. It's perfectly reasonable to redirect a song title to the article about the album on which it appears. 5656: 5596: 5376: 2953: 2827: 1745: 995: 609: 465: 262: 156: 4944:? I'm not sure) as there are copyright issues at the heart of this that RfD isn't best placed to handle. 2952:- I'd rather that these be broken up now given the differences. Some are far more plausible than others. 6280: 6220: 6016: 5977: 5843: 5445: 5370: 5272: 5089: 4901: 4806: 4773: 4629: 4619: 4609: 4599: 4560: 4520: 4480: 4440: 4400: 4385: 4360: 4150: 4036: 4005: 3965: 3586: 3546: 3517: 3465: 3435: 3160: 3101: 2040: 1853: 1832: 1792: 1416: 1329: 1108: 1015: 994:- She's not known as "Reality Leigh", and we shouldn't have this redirect if it's not actually helpful. 981: 719: 658: 560: 447: 307: 75: 6404:

This isn't blow-drying a coat which is implied in the dog grooming. Add R without mention on the term.

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Doesn't the existence of several eligible targets necessitate the creation of a disambiguation page? –

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It's listed as the name of 6th track so it seems quite clear that this was intended to be offensive.--

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What has been proposed is to convert all existing occurrences of the five redirects nominated here to

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I'm seeing news articles about another Ashley Cheng who owns a local ice cream shop in Austin, Texas,

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and that's too little to require attribution. Restoring the article doesn't seem to be an option as

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Not sure what this is supposed to be, as the target article does not include this word even once.

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of course) but I am just doubting if the straight hyphen in "America-Freedom" may make this a bit

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This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on July 4, 2017.

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that when there weren't other versions that cc-by-sa and cc-by-sa-1.0 were legally equivalent.

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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since it doesn't seem to fit in any of the existing sections. Do you know where it belongs?

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Link 23 is not a McDonald's site, and the usage in link 24 is within blocks of text where

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Please delete the redirect. "Sally Jones" is about the ISIS activist, not the journalist.

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Those first licensed before 25 May 2004 (the date the version 2.0 licenses were released

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mixtape (contrary to the nominator's claim, this is mentioned in the target article). -

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about the topic. AngusWOOF's sources demonstrate that this is a frequently used term.

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for now since that's where the most information is. The environmental degree would be

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my above comment holds exactly the same for these redirects as well, i.e. keep until

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Agree with Uanfala, the best option is a disambiguation page. There's an article for

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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 July 24#Idol Minds Digital Entertainment

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X1 Neelix nonsense redirect tagged. Blowing the coat is something a groomer does.

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This name isn't explained in the targeted page, and so seems needlessly offensive.

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this seems to attract about 9-20 views a month. Is that enough to keep around?

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transclusions and references in policy, etc. have been updated by consensus.

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This could either refer to the list of video games or the board game series "

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The official deed of the license seems to have included 1.0 from the start

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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3272:: It's the name of an animation program. More information can be found at 3153:

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all the current transclusions have been migrated to an explicit license

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per Thryduulf. Pretty harmless to switch out a colon for a hyphen. ----

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

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Corrected name with source from Colorado Secretary of State website.

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