Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 January 25

4814:; and numerous "Ministry of Transport" or "Department of Transportation" titles). In short, a reader looking for information about the department with authority over transportation is unlikely to know or even care what the specific variations in this department's formal title are or have been, particularly where departments have been temporarily merged under lengthy titles; they are going to want to know about 4818:. We need to inform them, for example, that "n Australia, following an election, it's common for the incoming government to rearrange the departments" (if this can be cited to a source). Where is the single page that readers can go to in order to be informed of this tendency for the department with authority over this area to be renamed and reorganized, and to see just how this has transpired over the years? 6163: 6144: 6125: 5112: 4681:. I don't see what this has to do with anything on a redirect policy basis and especially not for the redirect in question. There are/were three distinct entities in Victoria which share the name "Department of Transport", which need to be individually disambiguated from each other and from other agencies across the world which also share the name. For that reason, 4369:", and while he is undoubtedly one of our expert editors on disambiguation, I think he is wrong this time. There are, in fact, no real-world entities (as opposed to Knowledge (XXG) pages) called either "Department of Transport (Victoria)" or "Department of Transport (Victoria, Australia)", the parentheticals being our disambiguation aids. Indeed, 6266:

Years later I still do not understand why this gaffe, that was clearly just a simple mistake when reading nominations, is being redirected here as if it’s a real thing. It’s kind of racist. Hidden Fences is not a real movie—it doesn’t exist! Hidden Figures is a movie, Fences is a completely unrelated

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Given the variety of names that jurisdictions give to their agencies, don't you think that a person searching for the "Department of Transport" in "Victoria" is interested in finding out about the department in Victoria that is responsible for transport, even if the name of that department happens to

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couldn’t a disambiguation for any such entities, which is why deleting this redirect makes sense. Realistically, however, there is little to no prospect of such disambiguation being required: any related government entity in North America would doubtless be named the Department of Transportation, but

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per Tavix; I think there's sufficient context in that section. I'll add that for someone who doesn't know where "ruh roh" is from or what it implies, it would indeed be helpful to understand the context they are (sadly!) missing. That context is Scooby, not Astro, so the current target makes sense.

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and because the target contains relevant content. Currently the title is the seventh suggestion when one types "1,000,000,000" into search box and finding similarly named articles or redirects is easy (and three other redirects that come before the specific result are under discussion for deletion).

4764:

I can see your point in one sense, but I don't think it's a useful argument because it doesn't work in reverse: that is, we don't assume that someone looking for "Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources]] is looking for all departments that at some point had charge of those

4249:

I won’t press the issue any further though, and I will instead say that I did show it was common practice to apply the article title precision policy to Victoria articles by foregoing additional disambiguation when none is needed. That is a direct response to your “R from unnecessary dab” argument –

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during this discussion to make Victoria, BC appear more prominently, which I think is inappropriate given the basis of his arguments here. The layout of the dab page is not germane to this RfD discussion, but I do not believe Victoria, BC – a metropolitan area, population 350,000 – is self-evidently

4882:

both acting as high-level articles describing the same concept, with a failed merge in the middle of last year. Is the best next step to take to draft an RFC with a broader scope to get consensus on how to treat this topic? Would any of you be able to help with that? Obviously that would involve

7341:

to require an entry. If so, disambiguation is required, so that the sense referring to Frederic Lewis can be accepted. We can't distinguish the two senses based on spelling; they are both possessive forms of the same surname with different people. If the sense referring to Helen Lewis is not

3382:

applies only to Bots. It is clear that human editors are capable of creating, many, many, many of these. There is no way for editors to monitor them (delete when the trademark is abandoned? What if the same trademark has many fields of use? Or belongs to one product in the US, but a different

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which is a semi-autonomous statutory office that was occasionally referred to in the press as the "state Transport Department" between 2016 and 2018 when it was under DEDJTR. I agree that this is a case for a dab page as someone looking for "department of transport victoria" could plausibly be

4699:

A disambiguation page is merely a navigational device that we use when there is no other option for navigation. In this case, the relationship between the topic allows for navigation to be accomplished through the article covering all three topics at their next higher level of abstraction.

3405:

Behind every bot is a human who would have to decide to systematically create these. However, after all this time, no one has decided to do so. And if for whatever reason someone decides to mass create redirects, it can be dealt with then. Perhaps some redirects should not be created, but

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Making this a concept dab is a complete misunderstanding of the topic. There are dozens of agencies which have or had responsibility for transport in Victoria, and the vast majority don’t belong in an article by this title. A Department is a specific type of government agency.

3931:...So, I guess either way, the option will result in the redirect being retargeted due to becoming a double redirect. (IMO, a "delete" option for the nominated redirect is not helpful since it is a valid title since its current target is not sufficiently disambiguated; if 983:"). Given the volume of coverage, this appears to meet the criteria to be addressed somewhere in the encyclopedia. Even if the real-world consensus is that the claim is false, we cover conspiracy theories and crypto-subjects where they are reported in reliable sources. 5316:

Copy and pasting from anywhere on the internet or offline document where they see it. Similarly links to Knowledge (XXG) can be found on many websites on the internet but whatlinkshere shows only links from current revisions of pages on the English Knowledge (XXG).

4229:

a red herring – I was not critiquing your argument for keeping this redirect on the basis of your character or trying to distract from the topic at hand. I was merely observing your logic here is thus: There are other places called Victoria that might have a DOT,

5280:

for exactly the same reason that the googol nomination above, this takes a searcher to the content we have about this number. I agree typing it into the search box is unlikely but copying and pasting and links are both very plausible ways to reach this title.

4503:

looking for any of the three entities which are described thus. I also get that it's horrendously confusing, but ultimately the point is that the redirect we're discussing here only adds to the confusion because the further disambiguation is unnecessary.

1414:. The costly argument is erroneous: the maintenance required is zero, and it's no more or less likely to be vandalised than any other redirect so the actual cost to keeping the redirect is trivial at worst and far, far outweighed by its proven utility. . 5804:

It's mentioned in a reference, and an obvious enough connection. It would probably be good to mention it in the body. Unlike the delete voters (with respect), this is not a comment on the target article itself, which I likely would've voted to delete.

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either one is located, considering that I did not make that claim in my edit (which interesting enough seemed to be disregarded as I even made mention of the pageviews in my aforementioned edit.) Either way, your previous comment seems to be a total

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the meaning of ascending but that’s a very bad practice (the readers should not be asked to find the definitions themselves). ACC is related but it’s about the condition on a partially ordered set and so it’s not an appropriate redirect target. —-

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and ridiculous outcome, directing a reader looking for something called the “Department of Transport” in a Victorian context to an article linking to dozens of agencies, only three of which have actually been known as the Department of Transport.

5012:

Delete the redirect, because it is not a term that would exist in normal text, and causes the "Infobox newspaper" (which seems to be the only thing "using" it) to display "Media of the Australia" instead of the correct "Media of Australia". See

2727: 4353:, are disambiguation pages. The target can certainly act like one, though, which certainly makes me question the utility of a separate page for Victoria or any other jurisdiction, even apart from whether or not it has an ambiguous name. 1169:

this and other variants. Frankly, I'm amazed that we're even having this discussion. As was already pointed out, there has been substantial use of these terms in many news outlets. I just googled "trump pee pee tape" and it turned up

4403:

The situation, in a nutshell, is that there have been several entities in Victoria that have, for discrete periods, exercised governmental authority over transportation. There is nothing ambiguous here. There is merely a chronology.

4466:. What's happened here is that there was a Department of Transport from 1992 to 1996 (article to come one day when I get around to it), which merged into a Department of Infrastructure until 2008, then spun out again into 4612:

is probably clouding the issue here. If that was not there, it would clearly not be a concept dab, especially with the addition of the 1992–96 Department of Transport: it’d be a plain and simple name disambiguation.

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To try to be of some help to the poor closer of this admittedly legalistic rant, the redirect in question should be kept as things stand, but it's far from clear to me that the target page should not be changed.

3766: 208:, on whom Scooby-Doo's mannerisms are based. If a reader has really been reduced to searching for cartoon characters by onomatopoeia,, then Knowledge (XXG) shouldn't assume that they know which one they want. 3357:. The nominator's rationale is faulty because these are not created for every company and product with a Knowledge (XXG) article. Despite several of them existing for over a decade, they have not encouraged 4741: 4677: 4471: 7137:

The paragraph to which this redirect points has been deleted, leaving this as a redirect to nowhere. The "law" is nowhere mentioned in the current text of the article, so that the redirect is misleading.

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Yes, as I just explained above, there has been continued substantial reporting on the topic by reliable sources. At this point, we can't pretend that the proposition does not exist, or is not noteworthy.

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I should note that, since I'm involved here, I think it's fine to keep per my comment above. Not likely to refer to anything else, and it seems reasonable to add a note about it to the target. ~

1025:

Not necessarily. Many of the specific terms or phrases addressed in that discussion (i.e., variations of "golden showergate") do not seem to appear as terms used for any purpose in the real world.

6320: 4478:. When this happens, we usually create a new article for each iteration as it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to talk about a continuing entirety. For example, at the federal level, there's 6267:

movie yet my previous attempts to compromise by distinguishing the two were removed without explanation. Can we please just delete this already? People know “Hidden Fences” is not the movie.

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It doesn't matter that there is inconsistency elsewhere between Lewis, Lewis' and Lewis's, or what the most popular form is elsewhere. Knowledge (XXG) has a Manual of Style which we use.

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However, my continuing position is that this redirect is not useful, potentially confusing, and should thus be deleted. Every other bridge can be crossed if and when we ever come to it.

324:(speedy), considering that the nominator has essentially withdrawn their delete vote, and all other participants commented for this as well, so might as well go ahead and get this done. 2811: 6592: 1593: 1803: 6289: 4020:

that "titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that." There is no alternative use (current or potential future) for

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is a disambiguation page. So, in lieu of determining the best way to fixing the aforementioned disambiguation at this time, the nominated redirect should, in the least, be kept.

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is a disambiguation page that lists multiple "Victoria" human settlements) including the first "Victoria" that could arguably come to mind to readers in the Western Hemisphere:

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If the target page is to remain, it should have the "(Victoria, Australia)" disambiguator. Leaving the disambiguator as "(Victoria)" makes readers assume that the page is about

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And just to add to the rationale that this is a disambiguation not a chronology: the 92–96 entity, the 08-13 entity and the 19– entity are and were referred to officially and

1303: 5186: 4463: 3760: 6292:). We could debate at length the role of racism in the original gaffe, but I don't at all think that keeping this would be racist on our part. Apparently, someone made a 4458:

responsible for transport in Victoria. In Australia, following an election, it's common for the incoming government to rearrange the departments. For example, after the

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within parentheses, not to any disambiguator word: "the capitalization and spelling errors portion only applies if (x) is an error variation of "disambiguation"".

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I’d add that is is extremely common practice for articles about Victoria, Australia to forego further disambiguation when none is necessary, even when it might be

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many companies and products with a Knowledge (XXG) article. Note: these are only ones created before July 2013; later creations will come in a subsequent nom.

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stands due to new information, I would think that all the previously deleted redirects should be recreated, unless that would require a deletion review first.

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is not directly related to the fate of this nominated redirect, and in fact, none of your aforementioned comment has yet to disputed, in even the least, my "

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uses the phrase at every opportunity on his nightly program on CBS, so on that basis alone it's the phrase that literally millions of viewers would think of.

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You are missing the point. All of these are subtopics of the governance of transportation in Victoria. They are black-letter dabconcept topics per both

2895: 2643: 6784:. Not an overwhelming discussion or anything, but the tainted creation and lack of mention at the target page lead me to find for the delete voters. -- 3526:

All that says is "Do not use the ™ and ® symbols, or similar, in either article text or citations". It has nothing to say on their use in page titles.

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Yes, that is how you write out 10^60, a British decillion, But no, no one is going to type that many zeros and commas into any search box, anywhere.

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I've added a sentence to the article about this. There's certainly room for a better target, though. (and the word "order" has multiple meanings).

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Why would it need to work in reverse? The phrase "Department of Transport" is a basic generic combination, and consistent with other jurisdictions (

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This is not a guideline, but part of an essay that summarises – a bit unclearly on this particular point – the usual outcomes of RfD discussions. –

3147: 2685: 6818: 4671:, sure, I'd mention them, among dozens of others. As I said, I'm more than happy to remove Transport for Victoria as I wouldn't propose including 3642: 3602: 3434: 2349: 1551: 5399:- per Thryduulf. It may not be typed in often but there is no reason not to have the redirect for the rare times it is (or copied and pasted). 4792:? Yes, there's a big mess to be sorted out here, but perhaps we can refocus on this one redirect that provides nothing useful to the shemozzle. 6892: 6565: 5249: 5081: 4811: 3583: 703: 669: 4495: 4491: 4487: 4483: 4479: 2559: 2433: 5929: 2721: 3105: 3021: 2223: 2181: 17: 5594: 5526: 898: 2517: 2139: 2055: 1971: 5977:

The term "chain" is defined there, and it is easy enough to understand what an "ascending" chain is in the context of a total order. But

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per nom. Being the person who created the redirect and looking at my contribs around that date, I can't see any reason why I created it.

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are sufficiently different from this title that there's no need or even necessarily desire to (re)create them following this discussion.

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It's becoming increasingly obvious that this RFD is akin to trying to patch a geological fault line with some wallpaper and a touch of

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it seems to be some sort of mode or objective in the game, and a repeated phrase that is apparently well-known in those circles. ~

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Redirects to category space are strongly discouraged, and these redirects would be better targeted at a mainspace article such as

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Steel1943 is right that we shouldn't have a disambiguation page called "Department of Transport (Victoria)" if there's one called

1702: 415: 3231: 2769: 2475: 1881: 7281:, because in the literature, it is often termed Lewis law or Lewis' law (since a few decades) and more rarely Lewis's law. Cf. 6616: 6598: 6553: 6355: 5014: 3480: 3183: 2967: 1111: 230:. Astro doesn't have his own article, but there is a link in the aforementioned section should that be the character sought. -- 6405: 4436:, but perhaps they should be, and that could be a natural target. And aren't SIAs and CONCEPTDAB articles different things? -- 4340: 4146:

as significant a topic as Victoria, Australia – a sovereign polity of 6 million people – simply because it is North American.

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of TM redirects (which would require a consensus to create systematically). I don't see how the few that exist are harmful. --

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could conceivably refer to any of these three agencies. But it wouldn't plausibly refer to other sub-departmental agencies.

959:, including substantial reporting on the subject from reliable sources postdating the previous deletion discussion, such as 327: 7439: 7282: 7190: 7154: 7089: 6004:: the nominator has the point; I know I have made the redirect but maybe I was little too lazy. The readers may be able to 2973: 1870: 6322: 6028: 5429: 3172: 1291: 177: 133: 7415: 7000: 6945: 6699: 6370: 6076: 5761: 5491: 4579: 4127: 1432: 4879: 4350: 3915: 3910: 3874: 3831: 2805: 2799: 1174:

in a slew of articles, from People Magazine and Vanity Fair to The Daily Beast, from the LA Times to Haaretz in Israel.

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I'm saying it is notable, and that disambiguation will be available in due course with the hatnote I propose above.

7102: 6300:, though the playwright is not currently notable. I'm not saying keep or delete at this point—just "not so fast". -- 4765:

things. There's also plenty of subject matter very close to this where we don't make that assumption - for example,

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Your assertion of “the disambiguator not being sufficiently disambiguated is at odds with the policy principle at

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Can a complete article be written on all agencies that "have or had responsibility for transport in Victoria"

3605:. Deleting these redirects seems especially unobjectionable since they were not created intentionally anyway. 3383:

product in another jurisdiction?) And the contrary question is, what is the value of having them? (other than

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This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on January 25, 2019.

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on that article. This appears to be a good-faith request and I see no good reason to object to it.

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 February 4#Rise of Medieval Infantry over Cavalry

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is perhaps a better idea, as that is what readers most likely are searching for. Agree with Tavix.

447: 342: 6845:, which may be a hacked account , or part of a large set of troll sleeper accounts that vandalize 3300: 2931: 2332: 2259: 1534: 1384: 7402: 7365: 7315: 7309: 7286: 7257: 6850: 6806: 6656: 6432: 5695: 4977: 4952: 4778: 3547:, as it is unlikely that a reader would bother to include the trademark symbol in a text search. 3442: 3267: 2715: 2542: 2416: 1387:

redirect due to the use of capitalization in the redirect's disambiguator for a non-proper noun.

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does not seem to change the argument which is why I had previously requested speedy deletion per

102: 5469: 4243: 4131: 4017: 3225: 3088: 3004: 2763: 2469: 2206: 2164: 1411: 7390: 7274: 7225: 7172: 7142: 6293: 5416:- What's next, are we going to have redirects for every power of ten up to the title limit? -- 3598: 2500: 2122: 2038: 1954: 1188: 6977: 6922: 6407: 6051: 6032: 6010: 5748: 5424: 5404: 5343: 3797:

was created it turned out there were dozens of redirects to and from variations on the title.

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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as unlikely; searches for this number would probably be 10^60 without writing so many zeros.

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

4242:– it could have waited until after this discussion – and so making the edit could be seen as 3727: 3704:

Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's

7108: 6404:. This is a common flub of the movie's name, not even just by Michael Keaton at the Globes. 6210: 5664: 5360: 5039: 4828: 4754: 4710: 4646: 4589: 4557: 4414: 4326: 3610: 3557: 3343: 3256: 2295: 1447: 1133: 1069: 1035: 993: 639: 479: 204:

ambiguity. While Scooby-Doo does say "Ruh roh", so does the earlier character of Astro from

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https://scholar.google.ch/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22lewis+law%22&btnG=

4462:, the Department of Health and the Department of Human Services were merged to make the 3866:. This choice of action is rather misleading to our readers since, as stated above ... " 7425: 7196: 7176: 7010: 6842: 6718: 6655:, since the category is nowhere near comprehensive and thus not that useful as a list. 6459: 6380: 6341: 6231: 6086: 5962: 5780: 5501: 5318: 5282: 4853: 4283: 4206: 4138: 4059: 4011: 3984: 3944: 3839: 3597:

Some (many?) of these redirects were created as part of an article move. An example is

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Looks like there's a policy discussion going on here, so we can do with an extra week.

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seems to be happening, so allowing more time to ensure this is the current consensus.

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event article. If there's a paragraph about it, then point there, otherwise this is

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 February 6#American Studies Journal

5898: 5810: 5686: 5630: 5624: 4441: 4394: 3462: 3438: 2589: 1959: 1157: 1045:"Golden shower gate" has appeared "right in the headlines" of two IB Times articles. 98: 6912: 6152:

Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 February 4#Pre$ cription For Power

4101:, that would be a natural disambiguation. Moreover, relatively few places listed at 7253: 7229: 5744: 5419: 5400: 5339: 4167: 2673: 1791: 1749: 1050: 1016: 941: 171: 127: 7337:- The real question is whether the sense referring to Helen Lewis is sufficiently 7126: 6830: 6640: 6577: 6255: 5941: 5648: 5204: 5001: 4377:

of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is

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1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

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1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

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It would be inadvisable to create redirects for every power of ten mentioned at

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it's blatantly not clear which one has more primary than the other per pageviews

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with over 700 hits last year this is an unquestionably useful redirect which is

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2017_September_26#Golden_showergate

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 September 26#Golden showergate

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If possible, I would recommend confirming that the comments above also apply to

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 August 2 § Auto accessories

5822:- Reasonably synonymous. As long as the article exists, this should as well. 6333: 5953: 4282:

Thank you for your clarification, and my apologies on the misunderstanding.

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That is the name of the Instagram account which is what the page is about.

4024:, except in the context of the Australian state of Victoria; consequently, 7052:

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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behaviour in an attempt to strengthen the second premise of your argument.

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this disambiguation might be useful. There was no urgent need to refactor

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects.

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