1288:. Although the mediation has been long since abandoned, I would like to point out that it would seem somewhat unfair to tar all of the involved parties with the same brush, since many have done valuable work on making the article NPOV through neutralising the material posted by both the critical parties and by the Bogdanov supporters. In particular, neither EE Guy, CatherineV nor Ze miguel have so far violated 3RR (while Igor B. and YBM most certainly have) and are, by and large, reasonably civil and responsible in dealing with the matter in comparison to the other participants of the dispute. If the opinion of the arbitrators is that these users are only here to "fight out" the Bogdanov Affair dispute on the wiki, then I would say that an injunction from both the article and its talk page would be identically successful in achieving the desired result and that a blanket ban for these users from Knowledge would be both unjust and wide of the mark. The conduct of YBM, Igor B.
1769:, if you resolve the sock-puppets all together) of the banned editors were attempting to make for their own self-serving purposes. I sure don't need to edit it as it is. I believe the article, as it stands now, is pretty good, factual, and fair. I know the subject of the article will not say that, but he has to look to himself (and his brother) and come to terms with the real reason such an embarassment is now exposed to sunlight. Hopefully, they can take their Ph.Ds. and book royaltees, count their lucky stars that these have not been stripped from them, and move on. I realize, that once I form an opinion on a moral/ethical/political issue, I can be pretty abrasive. But it was getting pretty clear what the truth was and who wanted to "suppress" it. Thank you, folks.
2282:. Now I will as "officially" as I am allowed to do. Why not protect the article for the maximum period (I believe that to be 7 days) so that people don't have to waste time defending it from the vandalism of the subject of the article? When the 7 days (or whatever period that the ArbCom deems is more appropriate) expires, the article can be legitimately edited and also it would most certainly be vandalized by the article's subject for a short period of time (hours, or maybe one day). A WP admin could then revert any vandalism and clean out any POV that was added during this period, and then reprotect the article for another week (or whatever period seems most appropriate by the ArbCom). This would have to be done
1395:. There is plenty of unflattering facts from outside of my opinion that can fill the article and I do not need to add my opinion to that, and have not. Yet, the external facts, flattering or unflattering, must be allowed into the article undiluted lest the Bogdanovs are, again, not held to account for their work product or subsequent defense of it. Remember, they constructed (or contrived) quite a reputation for themselves in France as some popular-science geniuses, and if that is constructed on a fallacious foundation, we and everyone have a right to know that without dilution. Editing about that (as well as other unsavory topics, like
1561:--- I am surprised that the developement of these discussions takes. Because it appears that far from disturbing the article, I wrote, 3 weeks ago, that I agreed with the version which was valid at this time. Unfortunately, some editors as indelicate as rbj or YBM started again the polemic. I recognize that EE GUY had a very positive action on the article some time ago, but that, lately, he expressed a lack of confidence in what I wrote (ie the mentions problem) and became kind of aggressive (seing aggressivity in my posts). Anyway, my sole suggestion would be to suspend indelicate posters like YBM and RBJ.
632:(that, like other crackpots, believe that they are neo-Einsteins and just cannot come to terms about the baloney that they have successfully foisted upon the French community and tried to with the physics community) but they are clearly nakedly dishonest and narcissistic. They will do anything to squelch accurate critique, and it would be a shame if WP submitted to such actions of the Bogdanovs. To keep them from wearing down even the admins and ArbCom, you will nearly certainly have to protect the article from editing, once an "objective" version is settled upon.
878:)? why should the negative behavior of Igor (and sometime Grichka) be presented in a form that is ambiguous regarding its wrongfulness? are you saying that dishonesty (the myriad phony sock-puppets, the deliberate misrepresentation of critique into praise), the arrogance (Igor has never submitted to an edit ban, has he now?), the legal threats, the narcissism, etc. should all of this foolishness be presented in a 50%-50% "balanced" treatment where every anti-dishonesty fact is "balanced" with a pro-dishonesty defense?
1254:) Banning all users will only prevent honest people, such as me, CatherineV, and Ze Miguel from making sensible edits to an article. None of us, I believe, have ever been blocked from this, or any, article. Some of the more "aggressive" editors -- read: Igor -- will continue to edit this article by evading blocks (he has admitted this several times already), using sock puppets (he has admitted this several times already), or using meat puppets (such as the comical intervention by the French Government
52:
They have a clear financial motive and one of pride that disables their objectivity. It doesn't mean that it is open season for any critics of theirs to write falsehoods or to delete pertanent information that is supportive of the
Bogdanovs, but they simply cannot be expected to write objectively of themselves. Editors that are supporters or critics (or neither) have nothing to gain nor lose should be the editors of the article.
1334:, but has anybody suggested that he edits inappropriately outside that miserable article? As far as I know, he's a valuable editor. Note that nuisance editors and notorious trolls who do nothing here but waste others' time are rarely dealt with as harshly as you suggest, and that bans and blocks are, in any case, supposed to exist for preventing inappropriate editing only. They're not supposed to be punitive.
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wouldn't dream of editing an article without having some sort of expertise about it. And it turns out I have some expertise (so to speak) about the
Bogdanov Affair, so why couldn't I take part in the article, especially when I try to behave and respect both rules and co-editors ? I would definitely resent being banned on the mere account that I'm a new wikipedian or exclusively edit this article. --
606:) because it was obvious what Igor was doing. He was literally vandalizing the article and I was reverting the vandalism along with others. Also remember that Igor ignored his blockage to the article and continued to edit/vandalize the article even when he was "banned". I did not. In addition, I haven't edited the article in more than a week and don't plan to as long as I can see that
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this is a 50-50 thing. So we'll have the anti-sockpuppet statement balanced by the pro-sockpuppet defense? How about the anti-legal-threat-as-a-rhetorical-stragegy citing balanced by a pro-legal-threat-as-a-rhetorical-stragegy? We should balance every citing of a
Bogdanov lie with Igor's explanation that the lie was justified?
806:" part of the article, the problem of the violence and the insults against the Bogdanovs on the fora has been completely concealed, not because a concensus has been found, but because it has been reverted each time we tried to mention it ! And yet I had given a lot of links to these fora, examples, names (pseudonyms) etc., it is a
2085:
I readily grant that YBM appears obsessed by this Affair, but he has also been invaluable in providing verifiable, irrefutable evidence against some rather peculiar claims made by the
Bogdanoff brothers. The Bogdanoff brothers, I'm sure, would love to see him banned. Igor frequently reminds us that
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other agenda here at WP. They came when Igor discovered the article and called in his groupies to defend him. So, let's see... respectfully, how is it that you
Nicholas (and Fred) include me in the same "net" as Igor, Laurence67, XAL, or CatherineV? How do you include EEGuy or Ze in the same net?
1250:
In my humble defense, I have worked quite hard to achieve a consensus on this article. Yes, it is the only article that I've edited because it was the first article that I read on
Knowledge where I thought it was unnecessarily biased. (In fact, I thought it was unfairly biased against the Bogdanoff
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Your argument is based on an erroneous (to say the least) comparison. The article is, first and foremost, about the merit of scientific articles. And yes, it deserves to be balanced. Now, you are comparing the use of sock puppets, the mistranslation of "possible" into "certain" and the bypassing of a
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is about nothing other than the recognition of an academic failure regarding the credentialing of your friends and the subsequent dishonest behavior of the same. It's a story about some nasty doings, how can you expect an article documenting that to not reflect poorly on the
Bogdanov brothers? It's
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I agree with the idea of banning all the bogdamaniac contributors (including me) and to only allowed the contributions from people who had already written valuable articles on other subjects. To ban the bogdamaniac won't be efficient as long as "Grishka B.",ZCN or
Rollande68 will be able to intervene
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1) I ask that neither subject of the article, that is neither Igor nor
Grichka Bogdanov contribute to this article at all. They are, by definition, not objective. They clearly have a goal of making this into an article that makes themselves look good (like geniuses) and that helps them sell books.
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One more additional comment, Fred Bauder's observation about me "not caught in this net" is accurate. I have never been involved externally in this affair. Not once. There is no web page about the
Bogdanov affair with any contribution from me other than here at WP. There is no USENET involvement
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who has been involved in the dispute (including myself) in the interests of fairness until the matter is resolved, and not imposing any Knowledge blocks save for those the Arbitration Committee considers to be necessary to avoid threat to the rest of the Knowledge community. I should point out that
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The strawman is the implication that I am comparing the Bogdanovs to pedophiles in a primary sense. I am comparing the argument that Igor has made many times that every critical fact regarding his or his brother's "scholarly" output or subsequent behavior be "balanced" by a defense from him. Like
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Personally, I don't care about being banned, if the contributors who have tried to impose such a partial and malicious article are banned also. All I wish is preventing the article "Bogdanov affair" from being a settling of scores and a kind of game for people who have already harassed and insulted
1577:
Igor, speaking of suspending posters, what would you do if they suspended you? Would that stop you from editing the article or talk page? Had it in the past? What authority do you claim for editing the article and talk page during a time when both of us were blocked for 3RR? (The first time at
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What the Bogdanov brothers did was literally a fraud (if not a hoax) perpetrated upon the physics and academic community as well as on the general French population. The fraud was compounded by the clear dishonesty of Igor by use of sock-puppets here at WP as well as other internet venues. It is
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about which there are a lot of very concret evidences... but it was just censored each time, until I had to resign myself to stop editing. Rama cites Catherine as an exemple, but she tried also to mention the problem, and I don't see her text about it any more... So, there is no "stabilization" on
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With this comment, I do not mean to suggest that should be CatherineV as an exception to a general ban, but rather that a ban would be better directed at particular disturbing users. I think that liberty should be the rule and ban the exception. The page has been so disturbed that such measures as
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until the subject of the article might eventually give up on it and trial periods of un-protection could be tried to see how much vandalism it gets. If vandalism flairs up again, the article could be re-protected for this period of time again. I believe, once the article's subject and principal
1452:
having looked at the work that rb-j has done, although I have not participated in a similarly ascerbic manner on the talk page, my actions in editing the article have been somewhat comparable - thus it may be considered appropriate by the arbitrators to impose a sanction on me as well. Regards, --
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specifically said "not to worry about 3RR" in reverting Igor's "vandalism" (Snowspinner's words). In both cases, when I was blocked, I lumped it and took my medicine patiently and refrained from finding another IP (and sock-puppet pseudonym) and editing during the blocked period. In both cases,
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article itself: if one looks at it today, I think it is quite factual and, for the most part, NPOV. Furthermore, if one looks at the edit history of the past 10 days or so, there are less and less reverts, and these concern minor points. What disagreements remain on the content of the article are
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Re: Rama and Ze miguel: I don't see any reason to exempt CatherineV, if the others are also going to be banned. Ze miguel, however, I would exempt from the general ban and only restrict from editing related pages to the Bogdanov affair, as he has shown interest in and evidence of editing articles
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Oh, please swallow that pseudo-legal gnat and ban XAL for the herd of camels. Note that the targeted victim of the "threat", YBM, was so un-scared by the "evidence" being collected "on the Internet" etc that he didn't even bother to refer to it. Ban her for disruptiveness, inability to work with
1446:
Actually, both Bishonen and rb-j made very valid points which I hadn't quite considered. I withdraw any inclination I had towards having rb-j blocked from Knowledge, and no longer support such a motion by the Arbitration Committee. Perhaps, then, a better solution would be to impose a "soft-ban"
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contributors for this article, and if you choose to ban all non-objective ones who took part to this farce, please don't forget rbj, even if he has taken part to other Wikipedian articles ! With such a hate against the Bogdanovs, do you think he would be an "objective" contributor, especially if
2229:
1) The ban passed by the ArbCom has effectlvely kept myself and the other less sympathetic editors from editing the article but has not kept the subject of the article, who has shown a vested interest in editing out unflattering factual and relevant data and who has been completely banned from
717:
I've just found out about the proposal of banning all new contributors and would like to thank those who have already mentioned me as a fair editor. Indeed I've never edited any other article on Knowledge, but it doesn't mean I never will, and I suppose you've got to start somewhere, right ? I
591:
Ban me, if you choose to. I am not ashamed of anything, not a single action, I did regarding this sordid affair. The 3RR violations (that twice got me blocked for 24 hours) happened only in the context of reverting Igor's persistent removal of pertainent and factual information that was not
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1) All user accounts used by participants in the external controversy are banned from Knowledge pending resolution of this matter. The criteria for determining external involvement shall be a review of their edit history, it being presumed that if the vast majority of their edits were to the
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I find the suggestion perplexing that we (the honest editors) should be banned because we edit this article frequently. Is it Wiki policy that sustained interest in an article's content over a few weeks results in a permanent ban? If there are specific complaints about my behavior or rule
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is the comparison to pedophiles because there are actually human beings that openly defend pedophilia between consenting persons. They would demand equal time, but I seriously do not think that an accurate and responsible WP article about the subject should give them that equal time. Do
1406:
Twice both Igor and I were blocked for 3RR violation. In both times I was reverting Igor's repeated contemptuous and craven deletion of text that was indisputably factual, salient, and relevant (because it was not flattering to Igor). The second time I was blocked, it was after admin
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is a controversy which arose when the merit of the speculative work in theoretical physics by Igor and Grichka Bogdanov, French television personalities, was questioned by other physicists. Participants in the controversy, including Igor Bogdanov, are editing the article aggressively.
754:
As an admin who has been monitoring the page and trying to enforce calm there for some days, I would like to stress that a number of users cited above have not only refrained from violating Knowledge policies, but also made really positive contributions. I have found myself citing
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your request, you hypocrisy nearly came back to bite you Igor, except that you ignored your block and edited from another IP anyway.) What justification do you offer to the ArbCom for editing (using other IPs) during the period that you were blocked for 3RR violation?
98:"They are hucksters, swindlers, con artists. If this were a criminal trial, the jury would eventually get sick of their lame defenses and simply say "Guilty, guilty, guilty!" (...) Hoax, pseudoscience, The Emperor's New Clothes, excrement are precisely appropriate." (
2028:
I agree; maybe a principle that people should edit more than merely one article (but then we're telling people what to edit, if only very generally, and one of the great things about Knowledge is that one only has to edit that in which one is interested). Not sure.
1500:
Isn't it possible to ban rbj only for the article(s) concerning the Bogdanov affair ? He may be good for other articles, but you cannot reasonnably let him edit almost alone an article on 2 people he hates so much, and who he insulted so often and in such a
142:
a sock-puppet of Igor, right now I think you're a "meat-puppet"). I did not come into this with an opinion of the Bogdanov's, but I surely did form one after researching many webpages of evidence. I do not think you can claim the same. You came to WP
697:
and there is no evidence that he/she has had any external involvement at all. Why is Ze miguel caught in the net? Using another metaphor, please be careful about the barrel length of the shotgun you shoot with. Please make sure it's long enough.
1123:“This logical mistake occurs when, deliberately or not, someone attacks a different argument from wich has been presented by his contradictor. The real argument is twisted, exagerated or simplified to be replaced with an argument easier to refute.”
1257:, which turned out to be a student and girlfriend of Igor's. If you've never read this exchange, you really should: it is one of life's great pleasures.). So why ban the honest and "aggressive" editors when it will effect only half the equation?
1525:
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769:) as an example for some others at least twice, for instance. If such a policy was to be implemented to some extend, it would be wise to be very selective as not to discourage valuable editors. Note that this proposal has caused some turmoil on
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article is a good example of that, I had vigorously disputed the very concept of the meaningfulness of VSL with the article creator and have edited the article only twice, once for a NPOV header and another to take it out). I also think that
2070:), in particular, has written numerous web sites prior to editing Knowledge which are very critical toward the Bogdanov. It makes sense to infer that he has come here with the specific purpose of fighting the Bogdanov version of the article.
1233:, why not soft-ban everybody from this article (and related ones) ? This might not discourage valuable users from contributing, and will have the same effect than a regular ban to those who come on Knowledge only for warring on the article.
2230:
Knowledge, from editing the article multiple times. I don't have a specific proposed enforcement (other than reverting out the Bogdanov edits and protecting the article for a good long time), but thought I would let you know about this.
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others, unproductiveness (zero edits to article space), using wikipedia talkpages as blogs (she actually refers to them as blogs), and for spitting in our faces, not for being "in a legal dispute". Ban her for never listening to anybody.
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Should be made a necessary but not sufficient criteria. It is too easy to set up a web site for the specific purpose of backing ludicrous claims; I do not want the people linking to web sites of imaginary university departments again.
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being actively discussed in the Talk page by the supporters and critics of the Bogdanovs in a (mostly) civil manner. So perhaps doing nothing might be a possible decision that could to be considered by the Committee. Just an idea.
105:"he lies and lies and lies and lies. that is how he got to the position he is at today. (...) it is what it is. it stinks. the stink is of the Bogdanoffs' own making and no amount of room freshener will remove that stink." (
31:
1283:
I am another administrator who has been involved in trying to keep the page under control; indeed, my involvement in this matter has been long-standing, since I was also the mediator who handled the Bogdanov Affair case at
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I do not think that you will easily be able to keep Igor and sock-puppets from editing the article without explicitly protecting it, at least long enough that Igor might give up and move on. it's just an opinion.
1698:
After years of "virtual confrontations" on various foras he created, I can recognize his style between many others : directly of not, Luis = YBM. This kind of equallity should not surprise me, I suppose. Igor
541:
I would recommend grouping Ze miguel in with Rbj on the topic-specific ban instead of a general ban. He joined Knowledge and made several edits on unrelated topics before being sucked into the maelstrom.
21:
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with an agenda (but I certainly formed opinions after getting involved - that is not contrary to NPOV). However Igor, his sock-puppets, his meat-puppets (Laurence67, XAL (Sophie), CatherineV) have done
1512:
Certainly it's possible, and without underwriting what you say about hate and insults, I think it would be adapted to the practicalities of the situation. It's being proposed as a temporary measure in
2090:" (bastards) on a Web forum. While his behavior in editing the article has certainly been "voluminous," the only rule violations are for reverting Igor's (and associated sock puppets') edits.
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is fighting off the Bogdanov vandalism. I did not come into this as a partisan, for or against the Bogdanovs, but I became convinced, after my own research of the affair (with no help from
1633:
i guess, even though Igor has not answered this question directly (when he could, before getting banned), he has de facto answered it by what can be seen at the article history page.
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to compare this article to an article on the pedophilia. I am outraged of such a comparison which allows to suppose many things. I ask that this "editor" be quite simply banned. Igor
1326:, since he's the only one of the three that's got any interest in contributing to wiki in the larger sense. For YBM and Igor, banned from wiki is merely synonymous with banned from
1214:
to compare this article to an article on the pedophilia. I am outraged of such a comparison which allows to suppose many things. I ask that this "editor" be quite simply banned.
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about in what cases my conduct has been so far off of the mark. I certainly have come to the conclusion that Igor Bogdanov is profoundly mendacious and narcissistic. That is a
574:
French city article. I wouldn't mind being blocked (even forever) from the Bogdanov Affair article, but I would like to avoid being banned from Knowledge, if possible. Please
1932:
There's no credible legal dispute here. We can ban her for any number of things, and those reasons aren't subject to being lifted upon repudiation of the "legal dispute".
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article about this affair simply cannot reflect well upon them and/or their (or specifically Igor's) behavior. Upon coming to this conclusion, I have said (more precisely
1765:
I dunno if this is appropriate or not, but i want to thank the ArbCom and admins for recognizing the damage to Knowledge's value and reputation that "some" (or at least
151:, I do not call for banning you from editing an article about someone who is not you. How is it that you cannot allow the same for me? Your argument does not pass the
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vandal is convinced that his vandalism is not going to be allowed to stick and that his repeated attempts to wear the admins and other editors out will not succeed, he
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to compare my style to an Ybm's style. I am outraged of such a comparison which allows to suppose many things. I ask that this "contributor" be quite simply banned.
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2) (self explanitory.) Lot's of people are saying lots of things about what lots of other people are saying. It's time that each statement is supported by at least
2179:
Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.
2149:
I've been compiling a small statistical analysis of the edits done on the Bogdanov Affair article since the injunction that may be of some interest for the ArbCom:
2140:
Yup, that was me... I had just returned from an overseas trip, wasn't logged into my account, and hadn't realized that I was banned myself. My apologies. --EE Guy
1322:
Nicholas, with respect, have you thought that complete ban proposal all the way through? Banning YBM, Igor, and Rbj from editing wiki is a net that would catch Rbj
785:
general ban might have been appropriate in the past, but now things have calmed down and I think that in the present state, a general ban would be overkilling.
85:
I ask that neither subject of the article, that is neither Igor nor Grichka Bogdanov contribute to this article at all. They are, by definition, not objective.
2291:
give up. But it will take time and determination. Why not minimize the cost of such determination by protecting the article? Thank you for considering this.
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Of course they should not be editing an article about themselves, but neither should others be editing an article about an event they are participating in.
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compounded further by use of legal threats. It's an ugly situation. To whitewash this into anything else, dilutes Knowledge as a reference of authority.
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to defend the Bogdanovs and your edit history confirms that. I have been editing dozens of WP articles for more than a year before this dirty affair.
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at all. I have made contributions to dozens of other WP articles and have let questionable (IMO) contributions by other editors slide many times (the
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This is an overly narrow principle. It should be permissible to cite to an offline source. Not all the information in the world is on the web, yet.
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This is a page for working on Arbitration decisions. It provides for work by Arbitrators and comment by the parties and others. After the analysis of
1416:, got a fresh IP, and flagrantly edited the article (the second time as the article was protected the first time) and the Talk page multiple times.
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and related pages such as this arbitration that they are not Knowledge editors but persons involved in the external dispute. This group includes:
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ban on wikipedia, to the worst crime committed by mankind for which there is no possible balance. Your argument is void. And burn that strawman.
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The article is not about me, Laurence. Neither is it about you. And I have not suggested that they ban you (unless it is discovered that you
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judgement or prejudice. I came into this whole mess pretty clean, and due to the record of Bogdanov recalcitrance, came to believe that any
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20:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC) Update: Sorry, I did not realize that the Committee had already taken a decision. Please disregard my comment.
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just for the record, not everybody use sock puppets (or multiple WP accounts or anonymous IPs) like Igor does. some of us don't do that.
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violations, then those should be addressed. But there have been none. The proposal to soft ban any honest editor appears heavy handed.
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I hope this comparison will make more obvious your hystery against the Bogdanovs than anything I could have written about your behavior.
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here at Knowledge except to support the Bogdanovs and to paint this ugly affair in the most flattering manner possible. They have
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here and development of proposed principles, findings of fact, and remedies, please place proposed items you have confidence in on
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1207:. Should there be a 50%-50% "balanced" treatment where every anti-pedophile fact is "balanced" with a pro-pedophile defense?
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test. I doubt there will ever be a WP article about Robert Bristow-Johnson, but if there is, I should not be editing it.
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I would like to make a proposal to the Administration Committee for another possible decision to settle this issue:
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679:) is particularly NPOV but fully support her being allowed to edit because she behaves herself. And, for certain,
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flattering to him (or his brother). It was also done, in the second case, with the advanced approval of an admin
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inappropriate to dilute the factual data or the meaning of it, so that the subject's ego can be left intact.
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article, I have done a few other contributions. In particular, I think I've done some significant work on a
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Another style worth recognizing : It is a shame, a real shame, that so called "contributors" as Igor even
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document that we can readily read on the internet and not simply supplied by the subjects of the article.
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this article, just intimadatory acts in order to prevent some editors from writing what they had to write.
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A comment from one banned editor "Reverting Igor's vandalism... YOU'RE BANNED!! Stop using sock puppets"
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This is off the wall stuff, but would form the basis for a ban pending resolution of all legal issues.
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3) Editing by banned users on both sides of the issue continues in the face of a temporary injunction
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And of course, neither you nor Laurence67...Nothing to say about the "decreasing sequence" page 292 ?
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If you just can't see why your proposal above is pathetic, i think your case is about pathology.
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I have been editing many other articles in Wkipedia for more than a year. I did not come to the
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I'm a newbie Wikipedian, I created my account on September 26. Although I've mainly edited the
2006:
1933:
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Of course i'm Ybm ("directly or not" ????).Of course everybody use sock puppets like you did.
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regarding the Bogdanovs (that Igor and Laurence67 like to quote) that I continue to stand by,
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910:. No one else. It is also about the subsequent profoundly dishonest behavior and narcissism
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1292:, would conclude me to believe that a complete ban would, however, be justified for them. --
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Things have "calmed down" only because Rama has done what he could, as an administrator, to
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802:(people who defended them) from editing the article. I note, for example, that in the "
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All statements, critical or supportive, should be verifiable by links to internet sites
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well, we'll just have to let the words of Igor and his groupies speak for themselves.
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Are you going to go after Alain_r or even Snowspinner (heaven forbid)? How short
624:) or any others) that the Bogdanovs, as represented by Igor, are clearly not just
210:
This problem is part of the intrusion of the event into our report of the event.
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stub article, not yet completed. I also contributed to the French Knowledge on
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Igor and Grichka Bogdanov cannot be objective and should not edit this article.
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2019:), edit nothing else, devoting their entire effort to churning this article.
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The article is, first and foremost, about the merit of "scientific" articles
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731:. As evidence that this might be a sensible approach, I would point out the
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If only objective people have the right to edit this article, I don't think
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Laurence, the salient fact that you are overlooking or evading is that the
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now, Catherine, can you address the actual argument (without the use of a
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Yes, the question of who is obeying the injunction is of some interest
1330:, but for Rbj that's far from being the case. Rbj is passionate about
1210:- It is a shame, a real shame, that so called "editors" as RBJ even
989:: It is a shame, a real shame, that so called "editors" as RBJ even
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to persevere (in this case : people against the Bogdanovs), and to
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should be allowed to... Please remember that he wrote about them :
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Place here items of evidence (with diffs) and detailed analysis
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Sacrebleu ! It just sounds like the technique of "the scarecrow"
507:) seems to be the only obsessive editor not caught in this net.
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The simpler ways of achieving the needed outcomes are better.
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Nothing to say about the "decreasing sequence" page 292 ?
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Is the ArbCom aware that their ban has been ineffective?
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In addition, Nicholas (and Fred), I would ask you to be
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nobody could defend the brothers, including themselves ?
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outside the dispute. For the others named I support.
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but none of those harsh words went into the article
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153:"what's good for the goose is good for the gander"
8:
1524:injunction proposals now being voted on at
642:from me at the original 2002 discussion on
665:) is a NPOV editor. I don't think that
487:) and all others who meet the criteria.
2278:2) I have suggest this before, but not
1761:Thank you from one partly banned party.
1178:O.K.,in french it's the "scarecrow". --
111:Bogdanov Affair - talk page - archive 3
100:Bogdanov Affair - talk page - archive 2
1836:1) {text of proposed finding of fact}
1447:injunction against *everyone* editing
693:) has only recently started in on the
118:To the arbitrators : so, if you wish
7:
1375:(after a lot of web research) not a
42:Motions and requests by the parties
2332:3) {text of proposed enforcement}
2108:Continuing edits by banned editors
516:This does seems necessary, sadly.
28:
18:Knowledge:Requests for arbitration
2274:A proposal regarding enforcement
1796:1) {text of proposed principle}
1399:) is not inappropriate. And it
852:You're comparing this to, gasp,
987:About RBJ Pedophile allegation
973:... speaking of hysterics....
284:Proposed temporary injunctions
1:
2189:1) {text of proposed remedy}
831:like having an article about
22:Regarding The Bogdanov Affair
2296:20:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
2248:01:27, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
2235:01:09, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
2158:10:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
2145:00:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
2129:13:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
2098:14:16, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
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2037:10:05, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
2024:21:57, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
1967:12:00, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
1937:19:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
1928:10:05, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
1774:06:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
1756:23:10, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
1721:18:00, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
1689:19:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
1643:19:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
1583:02:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
1537:09:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
1508:08:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
1472:17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
1442:03:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
1437:the barrel of your shotgun?
1343:03:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
1312:16:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
1269:14:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
1238:19:45, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
1222:20:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
1183:00:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
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978:00:16, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
965:10:44, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
919:22:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
893:15:59, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
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861:07:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
848:21:11, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
822:18:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
790:16:57, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
778:15:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
745:20:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
723:07:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
713:04:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
703:04:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
637:20:58, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
587:15:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
547:19:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
537:16:34, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
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512:22:39, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
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2448:
1195:- It's a story about some
1991:Certain editors, notably
1827:Proposed findings of fact
1286:Knowledge:Mediation Cabal
2408:Comment by Arbitrators:
2376:Comment by Arbitrators:
2336:Comment by Arbitrators:
2301:Comment by Arbitrators:
2240:Comment by Arbitrators:
2193:Comment by Arbitrators:
2151:User:Ze miguel/B tracker
2121:Comment by Arbitrators:
1988:Comment by Arbitrators:
1908:Comment by Arbitrators:
1840:Comment by Arbitrators:
1800:Comment by Arbitrators:
1290:and, in some cases, rb-j
491:Comment by Arbitrators:
297:Comment by Arbitrators:
257:Comment by Arbitrators:
198:Comment by Arbitrators:
62:Comment by Arbitrators:
1782:Proposed final decision
648:Variable speed of light
324:Ban on involved parties
2086:YBM once called them "
856:?!? I'm speechless. --
800:discourage the others
729:do absolutely nothing
576:don't bite the newbie
2417:Comment by parties:
2385:Comment by parties:
2363:Analysis of evidence
2345:Comment by parties:
2310:Comment by parties:
2256:Comment by parties:
2220:Proposed enforcement
2202:Comment by parties:
2137:Comment by parties:
2045:Comment by parties:
1945:Comment by parties:
1849:Comment by parties:
1809:Comment by parties:
771:Talk:Bogdanov Affair
644:sci.physics.research
555:Comment by parties:
306:Comment by parties:
266:Comment by parties:
223:Comment by parties:
2426:Comment by others:
2394:Comment by others:
2354:Comment by others:
2319:Comment by others:
2265:Comment by others:
2211:Comment by others:
2164:Comment by others:
2054:Comment by others:
1954:Comment by others:
1858:Comment by others:
1818:Comment by others:
1787:Proposed principles
1387:) some harsh words
1229:Taking the idea of
804:Internet discussion
751:Comment by others:
315:Comment by others:
275:Comment by others:
232:Comment by others:
171:Comment by others:
78:Comment by parties:
2403:General discussion
1885:), now editing as
1526:/Proposed decision
871:i could only wish!
36:/Proposed decision
2181:
2173:Proposed remedies
1414:ignored the block
1201:Child pornography
854:child pornography
833:Child pornography
815:them on the fora.
580:assume good faith
568:Cubana Flight 455
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1975:Focus of dispute
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1389:in the talk page
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1143:it's called the
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908:of the Bogdanovs
796:encourage a side
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582::). Thanks. --
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534:(spill yours?)
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1934:Kelly Martin
1893:
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1873:213.237.21.6
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1197:nasty doings
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531:Mindspillage
501:
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2245:Fred Bauder
2142:68.54.2.189
2126:Fred Bauder
2021:Fred Bauder
1913:Fred Bauder
1409:Snowspinner
594:Snowspinner
509:Fred Bauder
212:Fred Bauder
67:Fred Bauder
2280:officially
1505:Laurence67
1397:Monicagate
1205:pedophiles
1192:Exemple :
962:Laurence67
890:CatherineV
858:CatherineV
837:pedophiles
819:Laurence67
757:CatherineV
720:CatherineV
667:CatherineV
433:Laurence67
405:CatherineV
127:Laurence67
2284:for weeks
2155:Ze miguel
1373:judgement
1251:brothers.
1147:fallacy.
742:Ze miguel
738:Ze miguel
681:Ze miguel
630:crackpots
584:Ze miguel
363:Ze miguel
120:objective
32:/Evidence
2371:Template
2328:Template
2185:Template
2068:contribs
2031:James F.
2017:contribs
2003:contribs
1960:Bishonen
1922:James F.
1897:contribs
1883:contribs
1832:Template
1792:Template
1530:Bishonen
1466:(e-mail)
1457:Turnbull
1455:Nicholas
1369:specific
1336:Bishonen
1306:(e-mail)
1297:Turnbull
1295:Nicholas
1145:Strawman
876:strawman
767:contribs
708:there.--
691:contribs
677:contribs
663:contribs
622:contribs
604:contribs
566:for the
518:James F.
505:contribs
485:contribs
471:contribs
457:contribs
443:contribs
429:contribs
415:contribs
401:contribs
387:contribs
373:contribs
359:contribs
345:contribs
289:Template
249:Template
20: |
2088:salauds
1979:2) The
1753:Luis A.
1686:Luis A.
1469:(cabal)
1426:nothing
1381:neutral
1309:(cabal)
1219:Luis A.
1180:Luis A.
710:Luis A.
608:someone
391:Igor B.
2095:EE Guy
2034:(talk)
2005:) and
1925:(talk)
1463:(talk)
1303:(talk)
1266:EE Guy
653:EE Guy
626:cranks
521:(talk)
447:EE Guy
145:solely
2293:r b-j
2289:might
2232:r b-j
2153:. --
1771:r b-j
1718:r b-j
1640:r b-j
1580:r b-j
1566:Igor
1522:three
1501:way !
1439:r b-j
1412:Igor
1385:typed
1149:r b-j
975:r b-j
916:r b-j
880:r b-j
845:r b-j
700:r b-j
634:r b-j
564:draft
190:r b-j
157:r b-j
149:Still
107:r b-j
93:r b-j
54:r b-j
16:<
2072:Rama
2062:talk
2011:talk
1997:talk
1964:talk
1891:talk
1877:talk
1743:dare
1534:talk
1520:the
1516:out
1377:pre-
1340:talk
1324:only
1235:Rama
1212:dare
991:dare
903:you?
900:That
808:fact
787:Rama
775:Rama
761:talk
685:talk
671:talk
657:talk
616:talk
598:talk
578:and
572:this
499:talk
479:talk
465:talk
451:talk
437:talk
423:talk
409:talk
395:talk
381:talk
367:talk
353:talk
339:talk
293:1)
253:3)
238:Rama
186:some
2058:YBM
2007:XAL
1993:YBM
1887:XAL
1871:1)
1767:one
1514:two
1203:or
835:or
628:or
612:YBM
495:Rbj
473:),
459:),
445:),
431:).
417:),
403:),
389:),
375:),
361:),
349:XAL
347:),
335:YBM
140:are
2117:.
2093:--
1962:|
1751:--
1684:--
1532:|
1528:.
1518:of
1461:|
1435:is
1430:no
1401:is
1338:|
1301:|
1264:--
1217:--
773:.
38:.
2065:·
2060:(
2014:·
2009:(
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1995:(
1894:·
1889:(
1880:·
1875:(
764:·
759:(
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683:(
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669:(
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407:(
398:·
393:(
384:·
379:(
370:·
365:(
356:·
351:(
342:·
337:(
113:)
109:(
102:)
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