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1551:- It's no fun for the rider, or for the horse. The horse would rather pull something. The horse's only use for a ballgown is that she is willing to pull a carriage containing a lady in a ballgown (or in work clothes). And the pseudo-portals make about as much sense as entering the wrong breed of horse in the wrong sort of gear in the race.
288:). TNT has not been eliminated, although it is not necessary for English Knowledge (XXG). Although TNTTools does not come from Wikimedia, it's all a matter of time, I do not think that the TNTTools presence annoys somebody, just like the examples that I have put to take advantage of its operation (together with
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It could also be argued that, because there is no portal guideline, this template can only be used to create good portals. Both assumptions are equally unfounded. It has certainly been used in the past to create portals which (after modification – hence "start" in the title) have earned consensus
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is defending here is doing, let's step back a bit and try to agree on something else: Sharing code across wikis is a useful thing. This is indeed the
English Knowledge (XXG) here, and by itself it doesn't need translations, but the code for some modules could be shared in one way or another across
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Since
English Knowledge (XXG) contains pages, templates and modules that are copied to other Wikipedies, it would be nice to think over templates and modules in which the text to translate was separated of the template wikitext or program code. Text that is in Commons. This is the TNT system. This
2156:- like BHG, I interpret those past discussions as meaning that portal creation with this template is clearly deprecated. It can only lead to unilateral creation of useless portals on subjects which, because there is no portal guideline, have no consensus that such a subject should have a portal.
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What do you mean "nonstandard'? Its whole purpose, clearly desctibed in its doc, is to introduce a 'standard' hantnote. I can list you numerous templates not " mandated or recommended by any policy or guidance". Please show me the policy which demands this from templates, and I will see how to
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equate to a consensus that their current format is desirable. The format at the time of the MFD could be seen as a positive or negative attribute (depending on your viewpoint), but it has rarely been the only issue at stake in MFDs of portals which don't adopt the classic TTH-spam format.
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Yet again, Certes is using a barrage of untruths and half-truths to obfuscate the simple reality that this template creates a type of portal which is clearly deprecated … and follows it up by trying to drag the discussion off-topic into portals deletions. Classic FUD tactics.
2111:- If I understand the purpose of this template, its purpose is to portalize another template. However, considerable experience at MFD and elsewhere has shown that arbitrarily portalizing a template is a bad idea. Therefore this template is also a bad idea. Write it to
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for saying that editors are lying when they are merely saying things that are not true, because the claim that an editor is lying implies that they know that what they are saying is not true. In this case BHG is following my advice and is not saying that
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would avoid the problem. I do not think deletion would be a good option as it would cause more inconsistencies in this sentance than necessary, even though it's not particularly popular as it stands. Adding it to guidelines would be a way to solve this.
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other members of the
Beathard family to the template in an attempt to pad it out. The IP may be the template's creator editing while logged out. The other Beathard family members should not be on the template because their connection is not as direct.
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2033:. There is no appetite for spamming of portals. The recent example of a new editor using this tool to create their own forked portal for topic Poverty, but outside of the heavily edited/ scrutinized large Main Article + large Navbox Series for
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part 3. As far as I can see from what remains of the Portal: namespace, eight new portals have been created this year, of which three use this template. Compared to about 900 deletions (excluding TTH's creations), that is hardly spam.
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The fact remains that this template creates a spam-style portal, which there is a clear consensus to deprecate. Any portal may of course the rewritten into a different format, but there is no case for starting with a spam
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3597:), it only has three links. Most of the entries that were removed were independently-released songs that are unlikely to have articles. Either way, it's clear that this template in this current state fails the
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system facilitates translation to advanced users who are dedicated to this work, since they only have to translate the text of the table located in
Commons, after copying the template or module unchanged.
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2424:"Hatnotes are short notes placed at the very top of an article or a section ... Their purpose is to help readers locate a different article if the one they are at is not the one they're looking for".
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This template's only purpose is to create a type of portal which has been clearly deprecated: a navbox-clone automated portal, just like thousands of spam portals created in late 2018/early 2019 by
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I have also created sample files related to TNTTools (and SimpleArgs) and that you now also want to delete. If TNTTools should not be removed, the examples of your use should not be removed either.
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It would be nice not to include functions in modules that always return the same thing, as any call to this module does on wikis that aren't themselves multilingual. That is called "code bloat".
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A/ Certes has been deeply involved in portals and in the design of portal modules, so it would be absurd to assume that this misrepresentation was made from lack of knowledge of the reality.
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This template is relatively rarely used, appears not to be the subject of any consensus for its use, and appears not to have its use mandated or recommended by any policy or guidance (see
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1524:, if they did something as fun as that, I might be tempted to retain them, just for giggles. Sadly, they are just tools for creating pointless pseudo-portals, which is no fun at all. --
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to create some portal. Note the past tense; the usage ended when the substitution was complete. Those portals were subsequently heavily modified to create a different sort of portal.
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which has a please-see link from the template's talk page). It has the effect of introducing a non-standard hatnote to a section in a way not required by guidance or policy.
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wikis. TNT is not perfect, as everyone admits, including myself, and there could always a better way to manage the translations and to share the code. That's what
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but possibly change away from using the hatnote template since it may cause problems with custom CSS or future CSS changes. Currently this template generates
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2619:. This may not be desirable if someone has decided to use modified CSS for hatnotes which may break this message. Instead using template styles or simply
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knows what the substitution of a template does. Saying that the template is in current use after it has been substituted is either a delusion or a lie.
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So it would not be apropriate to create another version of this portal unless and until there is some community consensus on how portals should be built.
2248:. In the absence of agreement on how the portals should work (and whether they should exist at all), it is wrong to provide a "basic portal" template. —
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If this module was only used in the
English Knowledge (XXG) and was not needed for any other module or template it would not be necessary. But:
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I said it before I had read the currnt def. In my times it meant simply a note at top . Wikiburokrats are taking over. Whatever. -
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Any other remaining portals which were created using this template have been extensively modified to use a different structure.
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The only purpose of this template now is to lure good faith editors to create spam-type portals, such as yesterday's creation
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all. As far as I can tell, these are all devices for putting a ballgown on a farm horse and entering her in a horse race.
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Using a hatnote/note at the top of an article to clarify about an individuals name is perfectly standard usage as seen by
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This template is in current use in subst: form on 30 portals, several of which have recent MfDs with consensus to keep.
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386:: It is a useful template for the multilingual process across WPs, one of the most important WM projects. Thanks,
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Sorry, I clearly didn't do enough background checks here. Hopefully my new response will make more sense.
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This template was created in good faith, but after stripping it of works that do not have articles (per
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can think anything else about their "cunningly artful misrepresentation". I am reasonably sure that
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Most of this portalspam was deleted in April in two mass deletions of spam portals created by TTH (
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This template is not used at the top of an article, and it does not clarify anything about a name.
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B/ Certes opposed the deletion of the spam portals, and attacked the process of removing them as a
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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is sincerely trying to achieve. Simply blocking any attempt to do it is not so constructive. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Category:Automated article-slideshow portals with article list built solely from one template
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There are currently no consensus-based guidelines on how portal pages should be structured.
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And the consensus to not delete some of the portals which originated with this format does
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per nominator. These are all variants on the navbox-clone technique of portal-spamming. --
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unused after being merged with the parent article (with attribution) per consensus at
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Not necessary on the monolingual
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This section lists people commonly referred to solely by this name.</div: -->
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Without going into the details of what each of the templates and modules that
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Who told you it is a hatnote? It is not, like hundreds of other templates. -
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Also, any attempt to convince me of the value of this module by appealing to
1998:- Do you really expect the portal platoon to understand the details of the
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1761:). The rest were deleted in a long series of follow-up MFD nominations.
2621::''This section lists people commonly referred to solely by this name.''
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test and probably won't garner enough content to pass it anytime soon.
2555:. Template should however be recategorized to be part of this category.
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has only ever been an information page, i.e. explicitly labelled with
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of Star Trek planets (A–B)
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is valueless and even nominated it for deletion myself a while ago.
2525:(Comment from nom) That's really my point: there's no consensus at
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deserves points for persistence, tho sadly not for anything else.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Template:2018 Taiwan
Football Premier League qualification table
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Template:2016–17 Danish
Superliga Relegation Round Group B table
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Template:2016–17 Danish
Superliga Relegation Round Group A table
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Template:2017–18 Danish
Superliga Relegation Round Group B table
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Template:2017–18 Danish Superliga Relegation Round Group A table
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Template:2018–19 Danish Superliga Relegation Round Group B table
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Template:2018–19 Danish Superliga Relegation Round Group A table
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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This template builds its article list from on a single navbox.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy#Template:solename
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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and use it more widely. It would be helpful to mention it at
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Template:2016–17 Danish Superliga Regular Season table/doc
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Template:2016–17 Danish Superliga Championship Round table
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is a good example of the problems of portal spamming (per
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The hatnote produced by this template doesn't do that.
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shows that only one portal still uses that structure:
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Poverty
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Poverty
1802:"not one of Knowledge (XXG)'s policies or guidelines"
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Template:2018–19 Danish Superliga Championship Round
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is lying, although there is no way that a reasoning
3690:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
3644:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
3455:'s list of association football-related deletions.
2696:per this discussion and multiple prior discussions
1572:all per nom (and comments below re main template).
3361:Template:2018 Taiwan Football Premier League table
822:unused, probably meant to be placed in userspace?
2460:You just said it was, in your "keep" response!
3707:, the four articles are already well-connected.
3325:Category:Denmark football standings templates
1853:That's a cunningly artful misrepresentation,
8:
1775:) ... or alternatively to assist spammers.
994:until the AfD is closed as delete, and then
3451:Note: This discussion has been included in
3289:Template:2014–15 Danish Superliga table/doc
338:is fundamentally doomed -- because I think
3663:- Delete this navbox with only 3 links. --
3614:ETA: After I nominated the article, an IP
2418:By non-standard I mean not compliant with
1926:No misrepresentation; just a reference to
978:, where the delete consensus is imminent.
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1079:The result of the discussion was Delete -
2504:, suggesting or recommending its use. –
18:Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion
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273:It is used, and therefore required, by
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1459:#Template:Basic portal start page
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297:Because the multilingual system?.
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90:The result of the discussion was
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1960:The truth is that this template
1782:was delisted as a guideline per
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1611:Template:Basic portal start page
2075:- I have in the past cautioned
837:Yes it can be deleted. Thanks
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2529:or anywhere else for its use.
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996:Speedy delete
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955:transclusions
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914:speedy delete
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2160:-Crossroads-
2159:
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2108:
2085:
2072:
2055:
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1992:
1961:
1953:they do NOT
1868:
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1784:a recent RFC
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839:— Preceding
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365:User:Jmarchn
360:User:Jmarchn
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55:
3595:WP:EXISTING
2502:MOS:DABNAME
2092:User:Certes
2082:User:Certes
1667:protections
743:protections
388:Amadalvarez
2626:Trialpears
2602:Self-trout
2578:Trialpears
2559:Trialpears
2221:HairedGirl
2141:* Pppery *
2087:H. sapiens
1974:HairedGirl
1908:HairedGirl
1813:HairedGirl
1679:page moves
1530:HairedGirl
1485:HairedGirl
1477:Delete all
1463:* Pppery *
1000:* Pppery *
924:Trialpears
755:page moves
344:* Pppery *
340:Module:TNT
336:Module:TNT
322:* Pppery *
286:User:Yurik
282:Module:TNT
257:* Pppery *
56:October 25
43:October 26
38:October 24
3732:talk page
3526:talk page
3496:talk page
3473:per nom.
2681:talk page
2653:talk page
2506:Fayenatic
2476:Altenmann
2456:Altenmann
2442:Altenmann
2414:Altenmann
2396:Altenmann
2303:talk page
2273:talk page
2175:to keep.
2139:per nom.
2060:DannyS712
1788:WP:PORTAL
1696:AnomieBOT
1673:deletions
1627:talk page
1597:talk page
1068:talk page
1040:talk page
1017:DannyS712
901:talk page
871:talk page
772:AnomieBOT
749:deletions
720:Athaenara
699:talk page
669:talk page
588:talk page
558:talk page
441:talk page
411:talk page
79:talk page
3734:or in a
3709:Frietjes
3682:Relisted
3665:Jax 0677
3636:Relisted
3599:WP:NENAN
3586:subpages
3528:or in a
3498:or in a
3437:Frietjes
3434:WT:FOOTY
3425:subpages
3389:subpages
3353:subpages
3317:subpages
3281:subpages
3245:subpages
3209:subpages
3173:subpages
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3101:subpages
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2813:subpages
2777:subpages
2741:subpages
2683:or in a
2655:or in a
2364:subpages
2305:or in a
2275:or in a
2230:contribs
2113:dev/null
1993:Question
1983:contribs
1962:was used
1917:contribs
1822:contribs
1739:subpages
1655:contribs
1629:or in a
1599:or in a
1539:contribs
1494:contribs
1450:subpages
1414:subpages
1378:subpages
1342:subpages
1306:subpages
1270:subpages
1234:subpages
1198:subpages
1162:subpages
1126:subpages
1070:or in a
1042:or in a
967:subpages
903:or in a
873:or in a
853:contribs
841:unsigned
824:Frietjes
815:subpages
731:contribs
701:or in a
671:or in a
652:subpages
609:Primefac
601:relisted
590:or in a
560:or in a
541:subpages
505:subpages
462:Primefac
454:relisted
443:or in a
413:or in a
248:subpages
212:subpages
176:subpages
140:subpages
81:or in a
20: |
3568:history
3478:Snowman
3460:Snowman
3407:history
3371:history
3335:history
3299:history
3263:history
3227:history
3191:history
3155:history
3119:history
3083:history
3047:history
3011:history
2975:history
2939:history
2903:history
2867:history
2831:history
2795:history
2759:history
2723:history
2527:MOS:DAB
2346:history
2207:format.
2073:Comment
2035:Poverty
1833:Comment
1721:history
1644:Fastily
1461:below.
1432:history
1396:history
1360:history
1324:history
1288:history
1252:history
1216:history
1180:history
1144:history
1108:history
998:as G8.
949:history
845:Monayok
797:history
634:history
523:history
487:history
308:Jmarchn
230:history
194:history
158:history
122:history
3705:delete
3539:delete
3471:Delete
2694:delete
2320:Ruslik
2246:Delete
2226:(talk)
2199:Certes
2177:Certes
2154:Delete
2137:Delete
2109:Delete
2056:Delete
2031:Delete
1979:(talk)
1949:Certes
1945:Sigh.
1933:Certes
1913:(talk)
1857:Certes
1837:Certes
1818:(talk)
1780:WP:POG
1757:, and
1685:rights
1661:blocks
1640:Delete
1570:Delete
1535:(talk)
1504:Delete
1490:(talk)
1086:ASTILY
761:rights
737:blocks
712:Delete
96:Ruslik
3616:added
3475:Giant
3457:Giant
2514:ondon
2479:: -->
2445:: -->
2399:: -->
2219:Brown
2002:in a
1972:Brown
1906:Brown
1811:Brown
1771:(see
1528:Brown
1483:Brown
46:: -->
16:<
3713:talk
3669:talk
3580:logs
3562:talk
3441:talk
3419:logs
3401:talk
3383:logs
3365:talk
3347:logs
3329:talk
3311:logs
3293:talk
3275:logs
3257:talk
3239:logs
3221:talk
3203:logs
3185:talk
3167:logs
3149:talk
3131:logs
3113:talk
3095:logs
3077:talk
3059:logs
3041:talk
3023:logs
3005:talk
2987:logs
2969:talk
2951:logs
2933:talk
2915:logs
2897:talk
2879:logs
2861:talk
2843:logs
2825:talk
2807:logs
2789:talk
2771:logs
2753:talk
2735:logs
2717:talk
2630:talk
2608:Keep
2588:talk
2563:talk
2549:Keep
2535:talk
2498:Keep
2480:talk
2466:talk
2446:talk
2432:talk
2400:talk
2391:keep
2381:talk
2358:logs
2340:talk
2325:Zero
2316:Keep
2254:talk
2181:talk
2166:talk
2121:talk
2100:talk
2064:talk
2047:talk
2041:).
2012:talk
1937:talk
1841:talk
1733:logs
1715:talk
1649:talk
1578:talk
1557:talk
1512:talk
1457:See
1444:logs
1426:talk
1408:logs
1390:talk
1372:logs
1354:talk
1336:logs
1318:talk
1300:logs
1282:talk
1264:logs
1246:talk
1228:logs
1210:talk
1192:logs
1174:talk
1156:logs
1138:talk
1120:logs
1102:talk
1021:talk
992:Keep
974:See
961:logs
943:talk
928:talk
849:talk
828:talk
809:logs
791:talk
725:talk
646:logs
628:talk
613:talk
535:logs
517:talk
499:logs
481:talk
466:talk
392:talk
384:Keep
373:talk
312:talk
242:logs
224:talk
206:logs
188:talk
170:logs
152:talk
134:logs
116:talk
101:Zero
35:<
3696:•
3625:•
3607:•
2228:• (
2212:not
2115:.
2006:?
1981:• (
1915:• (
1869:not
1820:• (
1800:as
1767:of
1759:two
1755:one
1691:RfA
1537:• (
1492:• (
767:RfA
718:by
603:on
456:on
22:Log
3738:).
3715:)
3671:)
3650:―Œ
3547:―Œ
3541:.
3532:).
3502:).
3443:)
2702:―Œ
2687:).
2659:).
2632:)
2624:‑‑
2590:)
2565:)
2557:--
2537:)
2468:)
2434:)
2422::
2383:)
2318:.
2309:).
2279:).
2256:)
2215:--
2183:)
2168:)
2123:)
2102:)
2066:)
2049:)
2014:)
1968:--
1939:)
1843:)
1804:.
1798:}}
1792:{{
1633:).
1603:).
1580:)
1559:)
1514:)
1074:).
1046:).
1023:)
980:ミラ
930:)
922:--
916:.
907:).
877:).
855:)
851:•
830:)
716:G7
705:).
675:).
615:)
607:.
594:).
564:).
468:)
460:.
447:).
417:).
394:)
375:)
314:)
292:).
85:).
3711:(
3667:(
3588:)
3583:·
3577:·
3571:·
3565:·
3560:(
3439:(
3427:)
3422:·
3416:·
3410:·
3404:·
3399:(
3391:)
3386:·
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3374:·
3368:·
3363:(
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3344:·
3338:·
3332:·
3327:(
3319:)
3314:·
3308:·
3302:·
3296:·
3291:(
3283:)
3278:·
3272:·
3266:·
3260:·
3255:(
3247:)
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3236:·
3230:·
3224:·
3219:(
3211:)
3206:·
3200:·
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3188:·
3183:(
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3147:(
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3044:·
3039:(
3031:)
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3020:·
3014:·
3008:·
3003:(
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2984:·
2978:·
2972:·
2967:(
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2931:(
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2859:(
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2743:)
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2732:·
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2628:(
2586:(
2580::
2576:@
2561:(
2533:(
2511:L
2464:(
2458::
2454:@
2430:(
2416::
2412:@
2379:(
2366:)
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2355:·
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2322:_
2252:(
2232:)
2179:(
2164:(
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1947:@
1935:(
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1874:.
1860::
1855:@
1839:(
1824:)
1741:)
1736:·
1730:·
1724:·
1718:·
1713:(
1700:⚡
1693:)
1688:·
1682:·
1676:·
1670:·
1664:·
1658:·
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1647:(
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1195:·
1189:·
1183:·
1177:·
1172:(
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1147:·
1141:·
1136:(
1128:)
1123:·
1117:·
1111:·
1105:·
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1019:(
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964:·
958:·
952:·
946:·
941:(
926:(
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826:(
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800:·
794:·
789:(
776:⚡
769:)
764:·
758:·
752:·
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740:·
734:·
728:·
723:(
654:)
649:·
643:·
637:·
631:·
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611:(
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532:·
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502:·
496:·
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484:·
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245:·
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222:(
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209:·
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186:(
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150:(
142:)
137:·
131:·
125:·
119:·
114:(
98:_
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