3846:
the performance and error handling can be bad. The reason to worry about performance is that editing an article that pushes the servers too hard is a PITA—a single "show preview" can take over 30 seconds. I don't know how large the central module with all the information would be, but it would probably be manageable and not a performance problem. If this merge goes ahead, there should be a discussion somewhere for planning because getting a good design would be important. One drawback of a central list is that if the data needs to be frequently updated, each tiny adjustment purges the cache for thousands of articles (all those that use the central module). I don't know if that would be a problem.
3494:, I'm not sure about the issue with some editors not wanting to use wikidata. If it's agreed in this discussion that the colours are moved to wikidata and then they are moved across and then drawn automatically from there, what would it matter if some editors here didn't want to use it? Is there an actual guideline on Knowledge (XXG) that we shouldn't use wikidata? If not, then I can't see a problem with making a decision to do so. I think this is already done for a few things, like official website or twitter templates?
3898:: we plan out what needs doing, and make sure everything is working before and during implementation. Step 1 might be creating the module, but Step 2 is identifying where the extant templates are being used. Step 3 is figuring out how to modify those templates to not give any major impact, and THEN we get to Step 4 of actually implementing/using the new module. Throughout the process there are usually checks and double-checks. Very, very rarely does anything go so sideways we can't quickly fix it.
3876:
that go through TPERs would be a somewhat painful process, as well as potentially risking breaking tens of thousands of pages whenever updating the data module (every edit introduces a chance to make a mistake). I'd be willing to help keep on top of this, just something to consider. If someone is willing to actually implement the changes necessary, and write a script to do the migration, then I don't have a strong objection to this.
3861:
which case I don't see any reason this can't be a significant improvement with easier maintenance without performance issue. One thing I feel we definitely should bring up however is that the module will be template protected while the current subpages are mostly unprotected. I think this is fine and will remove vandalism or unsourced changes on these templates but it will also require most changes to go through edit requests. --
3640:
module to hold that data is the second best option we have. How exactly the coding details of such a template are done (a submodule for each country or one single module) I leave for the implementer. As this has already been done before (replacing hundred/thousand of templates with one single module) and has proven to be a successful system, I see it as great improvement over the current system.
3725:
3947:
fair. It's not that I don't trust people implementing TPERs - everyone makes typos on occasion, so having to routinely edit a Lua module transcluded in tens of thousands of pages really just doesn't seem optimal. (also, I know how the holding cell works - I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware
3860:
This proposal will require significant and complex changes. Ideally I would have wanted a bit more testing and work with regards to the implementation, but it is completely understandable not wanting to spend significant time doing something that may never be used. I trust
Primefac to do this well in
3845:
Assuming there is no good reason to oppose this, the merge would be desirable as having all related information in one place is much better as it allows easy monitoring of bold edits and other vandalism. Using
Wikidata is the worst option as it makes detection of bad changes virtually impossible, and
3797:
provided that it doesn't cause server drag. It would be far easier than the current system of thousands of disparate templates, which are formatted in many different ways and have various naming conventions. I'd like the wikidata option to be explored further if possible though, as that seems like a
3581:
and are only decided by wikipedians for illustrating purposes; so I'm not sure it would be a good idea to put these colors on wd. I would however suggest working on a module that would later be ported to
Abstract Knowledge (XXG) (once it's done), which would also allow to centralize the colors from
3911:
is hit with about one TPER per week, and there might be the occasional backlog, they all get processed eventually. In this case it's even easier, because it's literally just adding a name to a list, and we might even end up just doing "once-a-week updates" if they really do get that bad. The folks
3420:
I would imagine this module will be massive (I'd guess a minimum of 500kb). Will it be a drag on servers to constantly look up this module whenever someone accesses an article using it? Some (such as those with large election results tables or lists of constituency results) may have dozens of meta
3875:
I would like this to happen, but I am somewhat concerned with implementation. For one, a lot of places use these templates in their current form and many existing templates will need to be reworked to accommodate the change. Secondly, many of these templates are created every week - having all of
3639:
the new module, replacement and the deletion of everything else. I actually noted this myself as a comment in a recent TfD. As these templates just hold one piece of data, ideally, a system similar to wikidata would have been used, but since en.wiki does not trust that data source then creating a
3654:
If we were to have sub-modules, I think doing them by alphabetical order would be the best way – I don't think by country would work as I'm not sure how the module would understand that a party name (like Likud) was associated with a certain country. Also, there would be a huge number of parties
3429:
One possible alternative – previously the idea of transferring the colour templates to
Wikidata has been suggested, which would help ensure consistency across different language Wikipedias, as different colours being used on different languages causes issues for election maps and parliamentary
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3676:
To make my support comment a bit more clearer, I support both a
Wikidata implementation option and a module option, whichever route the community here wishes to go. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages but both are a far more superior system than the current one.
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of these templates after merging their information into one centralised table (and no, I'm not going to tag them all, because that's a waste of time, but I will be cross-posting to the
Village Pump and a few other locations). This has worked for
3610:
I'm not sure that's a major issue, as the colours tend to be used on many different language versions – creating consistency is a good thing. Also, while I agree some of them definitely are OR, many are properly based on party logos or flags.
3380:). No, there should not be any disruption or loss of functionality after implementation (we're just replacing a template call with a module call). It will be a huge investment of time, but the benefits over the long-term will be appreciable.
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it should be fairly straightforward to update these templates following creation of the storage module. Following that, party names can be added or subtracted as necessary in the Module without wasting time at TFD.
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Perhaps it would help to have a draft module containing at least a few of the to be replaced templates? Regarding
Wikidata I am quite neutral, to be honest I don't think OR on Wikidata is worse than OR onwiki.
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All 56 of these templates should be substituted on the articles it's used on. Don't see any reason for keeping these templates as is. One-off election results should not be on their own templates. --
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3352:) in which unused templates are deleted and used templates are kept. There is an almost constant turnover (it seems, anecdotally) of these templates being created, used, and then deleted.
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I'd like to get a definitive answer on whether this will cause server drag. Even if split into smaller modules of say 10kb, would an article with 100 uses be an issue for the server?
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Another thing to note is that (assuming proper implementation), the data module will only be parsed once per page, regardless of how many different colors are used, due to use of
4064:
I agree with sdkb that it would be nice if a lot of this could be moved to and imported from wikidata. Regardless, seems like a good idea and thanks
Primefac for taking this on.
3451:
I imagine that even the shortname can be moved to wikidata and have a localized version for any language, however the issue is that en.wiki editors don't want to use wikidata.
3818:
My first preference would be for the information to be centralized on
Wikidata, but if we're not ready to go multilingual yet, I guess a module is the next best option.
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Also, this will need many templates and modules to be recoded to use the module instead. Someone will need to compile a list of these to ensure they are sorted out.
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If I get a chance in the next few days, I might throw up a proof-of-concept. My only concern is putting too much work into it and having that effort wasted.
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3473:) or some other split method; this way each individual call will be relatively small since it will be pulling from a (relatively) small pool of values.
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diagrams on commons. Might this be worth exploring for the colours (this would not work for shortname templates due to the language issue)? Cheers,
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There seems to be a precedent for templates such as these. Nominator's rationale is flawed as he doesn't say what these should be substituted for.
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works, and I did think about just making one mega-switch, but with the sheer number of these party names I feel like it would be a
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who do TPERs are trusted to know how to properly amend a template, and I'm envisioning a check-and-balance system much like
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And to head off a couple perennial complaints about this sort of thing: yes, it won't happen overnight (that's why we have
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below.
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has a dozen subpages that hold each individual sport. It could be done alphabetically (as seen in places like
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Knowledge (XXG). Over the years there have been dozens of discussions (e.g.
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I don't think the main module itself will be all that large, as it can be split into subpages, much like
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be sandboxed and tested before they'll be implemented. Maintenance is the least of my concerns!
2204:, better to keep the information in one place vs substituting it into three different articles.
3655:
starting with some letters (e.g. M for Movement), so it might end up being subsets of letters.
4089:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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template. If it's not going to be that large I'd be okay with a Template instead of a Module.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
75:
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Not enough items to warrant a template, even more so when only the parent articles belong.
3894:
On your first concern - this is something we do almost every time a template is listed at
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On your second concern: I am not particularly bothered with being "flooded" with TPERS.
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sensible solution considering each political party will have a wikidata item anyway.
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would be able to give a more definitive answer, but based on my experience with
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might be precedent. The merger sounds fine so long as it doesn't cause issues.
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election, 2014 French Catholic Trustee
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election, 2010 French Catholic Trustee
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election, 2010 French Catholic Trustee
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election 2014, French Public Trustee
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election 2010, French Public Trustee
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Template:Hamilton, Ontario municipal election 2010, French Public Trustee
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merged with the "French Catholic School Board election" sections of the
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merged with the "French Public School Board election" sections of the
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pages in the past, I would say the answer to your question is "no".
3738:{{#invoke:Political party|fetch|Liberal Democrats (UK)|shortname}}
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Unused after it was replaced on the articles it was used on. --
92:, noting that these templates are each used on multiple pages.
3734:{{#invoke:Political party|fetch|Liberal Democrats (UK)|color}}
3577:
Wikidata would be interesting, but party colors are usually
3253:. Planning in TFDH or the module talk page as necessary.
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Template:Scottish_Electoral_Area_Election_box_begin
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Template:Puerto_Rico_Democratic_primary_polls,_2016
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Template:Puerto Rico Democratic primary polls, 2016
4044:Might be time to kick it to a module as well...
3125:Template:Welsh_Electoral_Area_Election_box_begin
3073:Template:Welsh Electoral Area Election box begin
3370:Template:Election box candidate with party link
3326:Political shortname and color templates with
2221:as these are transcluded in multiple places.
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion
3219:Political shortname and color templates
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3948:of the magnitude of the changes here)
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3552:why are we worrying about things like
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3763:Liberal Democrats (UK)/meta/shortname
2983:Template:Japanese elections/Total row
2933:Template:Japanese elections/Total row
7:
3332:This is a nomination for the ~6000
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3753:Liberal Democrats (UK)/meta/color
3245:The result of the discussion was
3100:The result of the discussion was
2960:The result of the discussion was
2776:The result of the discussion was
2590:The result of the discussion was
2404:The result of the discussion was
2291:The result of the discussion was
88:The result of the discussion was
62:2016 Republican Primary Templates
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3582:all wikis onto a single module.
3976:Template:Canadian party colour
3972:Template:Political party color
3355:My proposal here is to delete
2865:as per nom, WikiCleanerMan. --
1:
3992:Yeah, that's essentially how
3974:(and the less broad-in-scope
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3528:and the replacement of the
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3334:Template:.../meta/shortname
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3028:15:39, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2881:16:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
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2840:15:56, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2720:18:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2702:17:59, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2534:18:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2516:18:03, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
2235:21:42, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
2214:15:00, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
2197:14:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
2170:21:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
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2848:Too small for a navbox. --
3773:Political party/shortname
3281:Template:.../meta/abbr...
2799:Template:Danger Franchise
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3922:where proposed changes
3338:Template:.../meta/color
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3328:Module:Political party
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987:
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951:
948:
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915:
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843:
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807:
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771:
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735:
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125:transclusions
123:
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95:
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84:
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78:
73:
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2989:
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3554:server drag
3548:mw.loadData
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3559:* Pppery *
3406:notified.
2506:articles.
4091:talk page
3336:and ~10k
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3277:templates
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3234:talk page
3206:talk page
3089:talk page
3059:talk page
3036:per nom.
2949:talk page
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2765:talk page
2735:talk page
2692:articles
2579:talk page
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2393:talk page
2363:talk page
2280:talk page
2250:talk page
2176:Keep all:
77:talk page
56:August 26
43:August 27
38:August 25
4093:or in a
4071:a·po·des
4046:Primefac
4008:Primefac
3980:Frietjes
3958:contribs
3943:Primefac
3928:Primefac
3886:contribs
3848:Johnuniq
3808:contribs
3780:Primefac
3710:Primefac
3602:Contribs
3579:original
3550:. Also,
3534:Primefac
3516:Johnuniq
3475:Primefac
3408:Primefac
3382:Primefac
3316:subpages
3236:or in a
3208:or in a
3189:subpages
3153:subpages
3110:Primefac
3102:relisted
3091:or in a
3061:or in a
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2951:or in a
2921:or in a
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2767:or in a
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2009:subpages
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425:subpages
389:subpages
353:subpages
317:subpages
281:subpages
245:subpages
209:subpages
173:subpages
137:subpages
94:Primefac
79:or in a
20: |
4004:massive
3896:WP:TFDH
3742:#FAA61A
3637:Support
3400:E&R
3378:WP:TFDH
3298:history
3171:history
3135:history
2993:history
2809:history
2659:history
2623:history
2473:history
2437:history
2328:history
2135:history
2099:history
2063:history
2027:history
1991:history
1955:history
1919:history
1883:history
1847:history
1811:history
1775:history
1739:history
1703:history
1667:history
1631:history
1595:history
1559:history
1523:history
1487:history
1451:history
1415:history
1379:history
1343:history
1307:history
1271:history
1235:history
1199:history
1163:history
1127:history
1091:history
1055:history
1019:history
983:history
947:history
911:history
875:history
839:history
803:history
767:history
731:history
695:history
659:history
623:history
587:history
551:history
515:history
479:history
443:history
407:history
371:history
335:history
299:history
263:history
227:history
191:history
155:history
119:history
4032:Gonnym
3970:found
3679:Gonnym
3658:Number
3642:Gonnym
3614:Number
3497:Number
3492:Gonnym
3490:Also,
3453:Gonnym
3433:Number
3402:, and
3038:Gonnym
3034:Delete
2972:plicit
2962:delete
2886:Delete
2867:IJBall
2863:Delete
2846:Delete
2836:Amaury
2788:plicit
2778:delete
2708:Delete
2602:plicit
2592:delete
2522:Delete
2416:plicit
2406:delete
2307:plicit
3740:give
3584:Julio
3247:merge
46:: -->
16:<
4068:Wug·
4050:talk
4036:talk
4025:rint
4012:talk
3997:rint
3984:talk
3954:talk
3950:Elli
3932:talk
3924:must
3917:rint
3906:rint
3882:talk
3878:Elli
3867:talk
3852:talk
3831:Sdkb
3825:{{u|
3804:talk
3784:talk
3758:and
3744:and
3736:and
3729:Done
3714:talk
3700:talk
3683:talk
3646:talk
3598:Talk
3538:talk
3479:talk
3457:talk
3412:talk
3386:talk
3310:logs
3292:talk
3259:talk
3255:Izno
3183:logs
3165:talk
3147:logs
3129:talk
3114:talk
3042:talk
3024:talk
3005:logs
2987:talk
2896:talk
2891:LSGH
2876:talk
2854:talk
2821:logs
2803:talk
2716:talk
2698:talk
2690:2014
2688:and
2686:2010
2671:logs
2653:talk
2635:logs
2617:talk
2530:talk
2512:talk
2504:2014
2502:and
2500:2010
2485:logs
2467:talk
2449:logs
2431:talk
2340:logs
2322:talk
2227:talk
2223:Elli
2219:Keep
2210:talk
2202:keep
2166:talk
2147:logs
2129:talk
2111:logs
2093:talk
2075:logs
2057:talk
2039:logs
2021:talk
2003:logs
1985:talk
1967:logs
1949:talk
1931:logs
1913:talk
1895:logs
1877:talk
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1841:talk
1823:logs
1805:talk
1787:logs
1769:talk
1751:logs
1733:talk
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1643:logs
1625:talk
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1265:talk
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1085:talk
1067:logs
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293:talk
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113:talk
98:talk
90:keep
35:<
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3604:)
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4066:—
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2019:(
2011:)
2006:·
2000:·
1994:·
1988:·
1983:(
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1970:·
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1958:·
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1947:(
1939:)
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1928:·
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1916:·
1911:(
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