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talk:Manual of Style/Computing (failed proposal)/Archive 1 - Knowledge

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35: 419:, then you need to adjust your browser settings. If there is a consistent problem with the default settings on most users' browsers, then it should be taken up with Knowledge administrators so that a modification can be made to the style sheet for the whole site (after all, if it is a problem, it's not unique to just this page). — 531:
but the latter markup has some subtle differences (color of prompt is actually grey), and more importantly can be parsed and acted upon by software, independently styled (e.g. custom syntax highlighting in user stylesheets), and so forth, while the former is basically indistinguishable from any misc.
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I wonder if these markups would be too noisy and complex (too many {curly brackets} flying around and awkward 1=escaping of equals = signs), which would discourage editing. I wouldn’t want an article to become like an intricately complicated template. For example in theory I’d like more use of small
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I have created this page to help writers of articles documenting commands and such to maintain a clean, professional look (and to make them easier to read and understand!). Any information that is incorrect or inaccurate and any guideline here presented that is inconsistent with Knowledge I implore
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First, let me say that I find the use of x-height to set the font size rather peculiar. Yes, it's standard-compliant CSS, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense (the font-size parameter sets the height of the font bounding box, the relationship of which to the x-height is not consistent across
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What you suggest is not wholly impossible. The problem lies (in my opinion) with the inability to use custom stylesheets (or perhaps some functionality to append certain style rules to the style sheet as the browser sees it). That is, the functionality could be provided through the use of the
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is that it separates logical markup from presentation. It would be nice if the Wiki software let us do that here: we could mark up the various components of command-line example text according to what they are (system prompts, user input (perhaps further dividing it into command names, options,
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Disagree with "The entire command line should be boldfaced, to distinguish it from the output." Bolding has very specific meaning on articles, and it is a bad idea to try and overload it. Neither are your input lines emboldened when you input, so it's not useful to mirror it. The input line is
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presents to a (presumably expert) user may not be ideal for explaining the user's session to passive readers. Since readers do not type the input text interactively the way the original user did, they lack the same functional cues and can benefit from bolding of the input
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I may have written it, but I no longer feel that DOS program names should be presented in all-uppercase. It is, in my opinion, counter-intuitive. It also might be appropriate to leave out the extension. Shell commands are a different matter,
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In my humble opinion, it seems to be counter productive to not provide all options to commands. Many man pages are not only poorly formated, written in a style making it difficult to understand and without examples.
503:(including Knowledge's installation of it) now properly supports the semantic code markup elements, and we have convenient templates for them. An example like the following from the wikisource of the guideline: 94:
I can see your point. Without boldface, it might also be necessary to indicate the use of only one command-output pair within one example. The use of multiple commands and their output will quickly become
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When, someone comes to wikipedia, should they be sent away with a comment : look elsewhere. Or even worse sent to a link describing what a man page is. This is not what the visitor is even looking for.
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I submit that a debate about whether to boldface the user input in a command-line example, to distinguish it from system prompts and system output, is a first step toward debate about whether to
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text in boldface. I think it's an obvious improvement in clarity, especially for extended examples with multiple lines of user input interleaved with system output. I would prefer to follow the
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Yeah, just had a total braindump there. Way too much markup. I think I'm a little dizzy, but I imagine you get the picture. In the meantime, I'll make the user input bold.—
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is not a system for documenting its own use, nor for explaining to third parties what some other user did in a previous session. That is, the design goals for the
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does not bold the user's input because, presumably, the user can recognize what he is typing, or what he just typed, and distinguish it from system output. A
154:'s formatting of user input, let's not forget the part we unavoidably omit: the person who reads an encyclopedia article does not type the input. The typical 131:
in a command-line example. That is, to determine what is appropriate in an encyclopedia article, one should consider not only the appearance of a
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Having said all that I’d like to keep an open mind; maybe see how bad it is in practice. Are there any other discussions on this sort of thing?
590:, which I also support. The beauty of the apostrophes for bold and italics is they don’t interfere a great deal with the rest of the wiki text. 197:
stylesheet default, and bolding the user input in command-line examples (particularly in extended examples with multiple lines of user input).
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The default prompt for DOS contains the working drive or directory (depending on version). This page, as it stands, says to use : -->
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different fonts). Instead, I replaced the 3ex value with 125%. It's less confusing and it achieves the same effect.
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about the future of this and others MoS naming style. Please consider the issues raised in the discussion and
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However, I object to setting the font size manually altogether. If you have difficulty reading text at the
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template for the prompt has spacing around it which is disconcerting in a block of monospaced text.
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I would like to reinsert the detailed list of options, but will wait for a while for a response.
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Clicking on this link sends the visitor to a page that has nothing to do with the ls command.
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are different than the design goals for an encyclopedia, and the default formatting that the
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Editors may be interested in this RFC, along with the discussion of its implementation:
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alone as the prompt, but that may be counterintuitive and lead people to type the : -->
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It's big; and it promises huge improvements. Great if everyone can be involved.
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parameters, and shell metacharacters), and system output), and then ideally the
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distinguished from the output by the placement of the generic prompt character.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Should all subsidiary pages of the Manual of Style be made subpages of WP:MOS?
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The listing for the ls command is an example of a "send them away" attitude.
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This entire thing is badly outdated, and needs to be updated to use proper
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to be indispensable for making computer code easier to understand. Similar
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element specifically to format the user's input in command-line examples;
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text in a terminal window, but also the appearance of similar text in a
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I can take on the conversion unless someone else wants to do it. —
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Providing comprehensive information, i.e. listing all options
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ls has a large number of other options (see: man ls).
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character. I would like to suggest changing it to use
386:Thank you all for providing a great resource. 279:The output of the command, as printed to the 8: 462:RFC: restructuring of the Manual of Style 286:<span class="db-Y2xpX3N0ZGVycg": --> 278:<span class="db-Y2xpX3N0ZG91dA": --> 272:<span class="db-Y2xpX2lucHV0Xw": --> 268:<span class="db-Y2xpX2lucHV0Xw": --> 264:<span class="db-Y2xpX2lucHV0Xw": --> 258:<span class="db-Y2xpX3Byb21wdA": --> 536:and the "See also" items it links to ( 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 586:says to avoid it if possible, citing 388:I hope to assist in making it better. 262:<span class="db-Y2xpX2lucHV0": --> 7: 532:text strings. See documentation at 287:An error message as printed to the 28: 315:All capitals in DOS program names 150:Before we limit ourselves to the 219:could decide whether and how to 33: 516:{{samp|$ }} ls </code: --> 439:There is currently an ongoing 189:stylesheets typically present 18:Knowledge talk:Manual of Style 1: 325:11:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC) 305:11:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC) 107:in the command-line example. 430:19:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC) 401:18:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC) 357:18:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC) 616:13:11, 21 August 2011 (UTC) 576:00:34, 16 August 2011 (UTC) 127:advantages may result from 22:Computing (failed proposal) 633: 457:20:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC) 406:Font size of <code: --> 588:WP:MOS#Keep markup simple 520:both of which look like: 486:00:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC) 228:03:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC) 202:19:28, 11 June 2006 (UTC) 144:14:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC) 99:07:23, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) 511:Needs to be recoded as: 273:parameters</span: --> 119:would probably consider 111:is a popular feature in 91:04:26, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) 78:02:18, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC) 129:highlighting the syntax 82:Boldface for User Input 474: 380: 156:command-line interface 468: 376: 269:options</span: --> 265:command</span: --> 46:of past discussions. 291:stream</span: --> 283:stream</span: --> 259:prompt</span: --> 221:highlight the syntax 105:highlight the syntax 121:syntax highlighting 109:Syntax highlighting 584:Template:Smallcaps 210:A nice feature of 191:<userinput: --> 182:<userinput: --> 573: 483: 417:default font size 74:you to correct.-- 71: 70: 58: 57: 52:current talk page 624: 603: 574: 568: 567: 551: 543: 528: 526: 517: 508: 484: 481: 435:MoS naming style 343: 339: 292: 284: 276: 274: 270: 266: 260: 248: 244: 67: 60: 59: 37: 36: 30: 632: 631: 627: 626: 625: 623: 622: 621: 597: 562: 556: 545: 537: 529: 524: 523: 518: 514: 509: 506: 493: 491:Semantic markup 480: 477: 464: 437: 409: 364: 341: 337: 332: 317: 293: 285: 277: 271: 267: 263: 261: 257: 246: 242: 84: 63: 34: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 630: 628: 620: 619: 605: 594: 591: 522: 513: 505: 492: 489: 478: 463: 460: 436: 433: 408: 404: 391: 389: 387: 385: 383: 374: 368: 363: 360: 331: 328: 316: 313: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 307: 275:</span: --> 256: 255: 254: 253: 252: 251: 250: 233: 232: 231: 230: 205: 204: 192: 183: 173: 172: 147: 146: 83: 80: 69: 68: 56: 55: 38: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 629: 617: 613: 609: 606: 601: 595: 592: 589: 585: 580: 579: 578: 577: 571: 565: 561: 560: 553: 549: 541: 535: 521: 515:<code: --> 512: 504: 502: 498: 497:Semantic HTML 490: 488: 487: 473: 472: 467: 461: 459: 458: 454: 450: 446: 442: 434: 432: 431: 429:_blocks": --> 426: 422: 418: 413: 405: 403: 402: 398: 394: 379: 375: 371: 361: 359: 358: 354: 351: 347: 329: 327: 326: 323: 314: 306: 303: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 294: 290: 282: 239: 238: 237: 236: 235: 234: 229: 226: 222: 218: 213: 209: 208: 207: 206: 203: 200: 196: 190: 188: 184: 181: 178: 175: 174: 169: 165: 161: 157: 153: 149: 148: 145: 142: 138: 134: 130: 126: 122: 118: 114: 110: 106: 102: 101: 100: 98: 92: 90: 81: 79: 77: 66: 62: 61: 53: 49: 45: 44: 39: 32: 31: 23: 19: 557: 554: 534:Template:Var 530: 519: 510: 494: 475: 469: 465: 447:if you wish 438: 416: 414: 410: 381: 377: 372: 365: 333: 318: 288: 280: 216: 113:text editors 93: 85: 72: 64: 47: 41: 596:Also, your 559:SMcCandlish 249:attributes: 137:text editor 117:programmers 95:confusing.— 40:This is an 582:caps, but 441:discussion 390:Sincerely, 330:DOS prompt 225:Teratornis 199:Teratornis 141:Teratornis 552:, etc.) 501:MediaWiki 449:GnevinAWB 346:Random832 125:ergonomic 89:Dysprosia 65:Archive 1 570:Contribs 499:, since 338:C:\: --> 320:though.— 20:‎ | 608:Vadmium 507:$ ls 421:Kbolino 393:DGerman 322:Kbolino 302:Kbolino 245:and/or 212:DocBook 195:DocBook 187:DocBook 177:DocBook 115:. Most 97:Kbolino 76:Kbolino 43:archive 482:oetica 407:blocks 342:C: --> 289:stderr 281:stdout 217:reader 602:|$ }} 566:ʕ(ل)ˀ 564:Talk⇒ 243:class 171:text. 16:< 612:talk 600:samp 540:samp 527:ls 453:talk 445:vote 425:talk 397:talk 344:. -- 548:kbd 340:or 168:CLI 164:CLI 160:CLI 152:CLI 133:CLI 614:) 598:{{ 550:}} 546:{{ 544:, 542:}} 538:{{ 525:$ 455:) 427:) 399:) 355:) 247:id 139:. 618:. 610:( 572:. 479:N 451:( 423:( 395:( 353:c 350:t 348:( 54:.

Index

Knowledge talk:Manual of Style
Computing (failed proposal)
archive
current talk page
Archive 1
Kbolino
Dysprosia
Kbolino
highlight the syntax
Syntax highlighting
text editors
programmers
syntax highlighting
ergonomic
highlighting the syntax
CLI
text editor
Teratornis
14:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
CLI
command-line interface
CLI
CLI
CLI
DocBook
<userinput>
DocBook
DocBook
Teratornis
19:28, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

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