50:
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651:. For these names in Cyrillic, oblast (о́бласть) is not capitalised. There is therefore no to argument that capitalisation from the native language gives rise to a need to capitalise the term in English. The same would be true for other administrative divisions (eg raion). The same is likely true where the same terms are used for other nations (eg Russia).
785:. But many people write e.g. "Back Bay Station" as if "Back Bay" is a short version of the full proper name, just as "New York" is a short version of "New York City", which is never written "New York city". This is somewhat unsatisfying, but so is the difference in pronunciation between "Kansas" and "Arkansas", so
724:
if it seems to warrant that. Make it clear that the earlier RMs were based on false claims about the capitalization level in the source material and that you can prove it. This is basically the same situation as all that sports raft stuff: topic-devoted editors are hell-bent on over-capitalizing, but
330:
792:
Given sometimes the type descriptor is incorporated into the name and sometimes it's not, and given that capitalization of type descriptors in general seems to be common in
English though not always universal, I think declaring as a style choice that English Knowledge (XXG) always capitalizes would
875:
articles. Historic names should usually be presented in "Names" or "Etymology" sections, except significant ones such as
Constantinople in the lead of Istanbul for example. However, non-English alphabet versions should also be in "Names" or "Etymology" sections. Turkish is spoken by 85-90% of the
808:
professional
English sources use that convention, it's not wrong for Knowledge (XXG) to choose it arbitrarily. Especially given that the short versions of these names are already taken by city names, it seems likely that the type descriptors have or will some day be firmly incorporated by English
702:
topic else" attitude with no regard to sourcing and guidelines. The way to get around this is to do a bunch of source research beforehand showing that the capitalization level is nowhere near what we'd expect for WP to be capitalizing. Not just n-grams but Google News and Google
Scholar and IA
697:
about why something "is" a "proper name" despite numerous RS not treating it as one by capitalizing it). As our editorial pool shrinks, the entire RM process is starting to fail because too few editors pay any attention to it at all, and those who show up to comment too often have a "screw the
93:, it cannot have primary topic over the US state. Opponents argued that internationally recognized countries should take precedence over sub-national units like the US state. Some opponents argued that the current setup conveys a US-centric bias. Attempts to rename the articles to a
477:
213:
exception rule for only those handful of cities listed in that style guide (the dominant US newswriting guide) as not requiring the state modifier. There has been since no consensus to do a massive page move on the other articles on US places (although individual
692:
RM results that boil down to "capitalize because the sources I prefer and cherrypicked like to do so" are pretty common when people deeply involved in some topic show up in force to dogpile an RM (or one or two bloviate at tremendous length with their personal
310:
178:
records. When creating these pages, Rambot used the "Placename, State" naming format, initially setting a consistent naming convention for these articles. Supporters of keeping the "Placename, State" format argue that this is generally the
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128:, while keeping content about the island at "Ireland". Ever since, this issue has been heavily disputed, but there has not been any consensus to change this status quo. Previous failed proposals have included making the country the
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showing that lowercase "oblast" clearly dominates in journals, but do more such searches for all these terms so the evidence is unassailable. Then do a mass RM that is "advertised" at various higher profile venues like
823:
To be fair, the naming convention page is silent on capitalisation except for the usage. Weirdly the
Ukrainian English-language newspapers I can find use the word "region" instead of oblast in their reporting...
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I'm not sure practices in other languages should be used to decide what to do in
English; different languages just have different conventions. French, for example, capitalizes noun forms (like
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Probably easier to have a generic “use the main articles title”; we may eventually move the article to Türkiye, and even we do we will have the problem in the opposite direction.
249:
1001:
671:
667:
141:
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Can we add some specific guidance for
Turkish cities? For some cities, this is almost getting to ridiculous levels. For example, count how many Smyrna's are in the lead of
801:
245:
32:
770:
765:
I guess in
English there's disagreement or uncertainty over whether the type descriptor is part of a proper noun or a separate noun being modified by a proper
153:
Why do articles on populated places in the United States primarily use the ] "comma convention" format? Why is there an exemption for cities listed in the
793:
be acceptable as an arbitrary choice between two common conventions, and also safer in that we'd never mistakenly lowercase a name where the descriptor
580:
184:
89:
for the term "Georgia". Supporters of that position successfully argued that since the country is not significantly more commonly searched for than
963:
838:
773:
says "station" is lowercase except where "Station" is already part of the name, leaving that question up to sourcing. Conductors say
777:
and not "South", and "Penn
Station" not "Penn" (which means the university). But they might say "Back Bay" or "Yonkers", so we have
736:
648:
644:
895:
Could we get a section addressing users adding Türkiye or replacing Turkey with Türkiye? I usually revert those edits and point to
640:
117:
The naming of
Ireland articles dates back to 2002. Previously, content for both the island and country appeared on the same page,
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can conflict with each other, thus consensus determines which ones to follow. Most of these articles were created by
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for South America, though that may be similar to the difference between "North America" and "northern America".
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do not have the sourcing to justify it. Same with the state panhandles (an RM saga that still continues).
639:- others retured no result. A cursory look at Google Scholar results would confirm mixed capitalisation -
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been incorporated, which seems to happen over time or for words where the short version is already taken.
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population. The rest is mostly Kurdish. Except Arabic, other languages would be less than 0.1%
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Manual of Style/Linking#Need for clarity on linking major American cities
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Consensus is sought as to the correct way to refer and link to major American cities such as
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595:. While many of these do not give an ngram result, where they do, they do not show that
587:
Capitalisation of "oblast" when used as the name of a Ukrainian administrative division
140:
in 2009, discussions relating to the naming of these Ireland articles had to occur at
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like "Republic of Georgia" or "State of Georgia" have not reached any consensus (see
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Talk:Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast/Archive 1#Requested move 29 April 2022
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Talk:Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast/Archive 1#Requested move 11 June 2022
607:) that would lead us to a conclusion that we should cap these names on WP. See
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339:
January 2007 proposal to use the AP Stylebook for major US cities (not passed)
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October 2006 proposal to use the AP Stylebook for major US cities (not passed)
192:
899:
or another MOS-related guideline, but it would be helpful to point here.
861:
604:
952:, regarding a mountain on the Polish—Czech border, may be of interest. —
327:
November 2006 proposal to mirror Canadian city conventions (not passed)
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75:
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I have made an ngram review of "X O|oblast" for the oblasts listed at
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576:
110:
article about the island, while the article on the country is named
355:
October 2008 decision to use the AP Stylebook for major US cities (
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July 2007 proposal to use one international convention (not passed)
315:
Aug 2006 proposal to use one international convention (not passed)
136:
like "Ireland (island)" and "Ireland (country)". According to an
49:
867:(there's one extra in the footnote as well). Btw, there's also
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436:
39:
228:
379:
October 2012 discussion on whether to initiate another RFC
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have been initiated on different pages from time to time).
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so discussions can take place on the talk pages as normal.
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804:
already favors the capitalized version, and given that
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118:
60:
31:
Please post discussions about Railway station names at
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (Ukrainian places)
387:
December 2012 RFC (consensus to maintain status quo)
371:
January 2011 RFC (consensus to maintain status quo)
698:guidelines and policies, I want capitalization in
33:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Naming conventions (stations)
992:", etc., especially for some countries (like the
567:Need for clarity on linking major American cities
771:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (US stations)
120:but it was then decided to move content and the
18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Naming conventions (places)
750:for America) but definitely not demonyms (like
676:Talk:Cherkasy Oblast#Requested move 12 May 2022
187:. Opponents argue that this format is neither
126:its official "Republic of Ireland" description
550:This page has archives. Sections older than
8:
980:How should we decide the primary topics of "
599:is consistently capitalised in sources (per
856:Region-specific guidance for Turkish cities
996:) whose cities cannot have articles named
423:February 2023 RFC (no consensus to change)
162:This is an issue where different rules of
950:Talk:Sněžka#Requested move 17 July 2024
944:or an English exonym, if there is one ?
560:when more than 6 sections are present.
383:December 2012 Collaborative Workspace
319:September 2006 proposals (not passed)
7:
1002:The existing rules applied to Canada
70:Why is the article on Georgia named
403:February 2014 moratorium discussion
335:December 2006 proposal (not passed)
307:December 2005 proposal (not passed)
191:, and results in short titles like
134:parenthetical disambiguation titles
579:. The discussion is being held at
311:August 2006 proposals (not passed)
195:redirecting to longer titles like
85:The consensus is that there is no
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554:may be automatically archived by
407:2018 discussion on state capitals
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391:February 2013 RFC (no consensus)
199:. After a series of discussions
99:the list of archived discussions
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303:July 2005 proposal (not passed)
144:. In 2023 this requirement was
132:of "Ireland" instead, or using
1014:15:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
164:Knowledge (XXG):Article titles
1:
726:
627:(no result for Kyiv Oblast),
181:most common naming convention
91:the US state of the same name
742:06:59, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
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661:02:35, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
95:natural disambiguation title
754:for American). French does
411:2019 discussion on subpages
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1004:may be useful references.
909:If you reply here, please
886:16:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
844:21:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
819:19:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
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210:Associated Press Stylebook
65:Frequently asked questions
968:17:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
159:as not requiring a state?
758:for Central America but
415:November 2019 discussion
331:November 2006 straw poll
216:requested move proposals
174:, back in 2002 based on
931:06:13, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
916:05:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
703:Scholar results – e.g.
593:Oblasts of Ukraine#List
399:January 2014 discussion
343:January 2007 discussion
258:September 2013 archives
254:September 2012 archives
557:Lowercase sigmabot III
419:August 2020 discussion
266:February 2014 archives
234:
375:April 2012 discussion
363:March 2010 discussion
262:October 2013 archives
246:Archive (settlements)
232:
207:that established the
124:about the country to
395:June 2013 discussion
367:June 2010 discussion
347:July 2007 discussion
299:June 2004 discussion
197:Nashville, Tennessee
973:Primary topics and
295:May 2004 discussion
205:was reached in 2008
189:precise nor concise
172:Knowledge (XXG) bot
112:Republic of Ireland
80:disambiguation page
998:Placename, Country
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756:Amérique centrale
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666:I agree, but see
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16:(Redirected from
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901:Classicwiki
730:SMcCandlish
680:BarrelProof
641:Sumy Oblast
637:Sumy Oblast
629:Lviv Oblast
625:Kiev Oblast
573:Los Angeles
168:User:Rambot
106:Why is the
975:WP:USPLACE
878:Bogazicili
873:Old Smyrna
710:WT:MOSCAPS
290:WP:USPLACE
201:since 2004
964:contribs)
752:américain
716:and even
714:WT:NCCAPS
601:WP:NCCAPS
524:Archive 8
519:Archive 7
512:Archive 6
507:Archive 5
502:Archive 4
495:Archive 3
490:Archive 2
485:Archive 1
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274:Archive 4
270:Archive 3
242:Archive 2
238:Archive 1
193:Nashville
146:withdrawn
748:Amérique
722:WP:VPPOL
605:MOS:CAPS
552:180 days
470:Archives
443:Shortcut
942:Śnieżka
911:ping me
891:Türkiye
451:WT:NCGN
233:Archive
108:Ireland
76:Georgia
938:Sněžka
869:Smyrna
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678:. —
597:oblast
577:Boston
357:passed
74:, and
960:(talk
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718:WT:AT
695:WP:OR
478:Index
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871:and
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806:some
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