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251:, which takes some time getting used to, but in the end allows for customization. First a header with the basic data, then a section for population and demonym, then another for area, density and coordinates, then one for "history" (foundation date and founder), a "current" box (mayor and political party, possibly other stuff), and finally a closing. All of these are optional (except the header, of course) and more can be added later. --
435:, and instead of "department" it says "partido"). Tobias Conradi proposes that we split it further, but I'm afraid we'll end up making it too general. On the other hand, since a template becomes useless or at the very least untidy when a datum is missing, splitting everything up might not be so bad. I'm wondering whether we can get data on population density for all cities (in many cases it will be difficult to find the area!). The
58:
670:{{city-start}} {{city-header-ar|name=Rosario}} {{city-poli-ar|province=] |department=]}} {{city-area|area=178}} {{city-coor|coor=32_57_4_S_60_39_59_W|text=32º57’04”S 60º39’59”W}} {{city-people|pop=910,000|demonym=rosarino}} {{city-density|5,112}} {{city-authority|mayor=] |party=]}} <br /: -->
944:
I personally like what the box looks like now, with properties and values as plain text, but I'll accept suggestions. The task of changing the sub-templates would be relatively minor. Separating the sections would be a matter of inserting empty space. I'd like to keep the templates flexible, that is,
919:
template) with things separated left and right, and more space between non-related topics, that makes the hole thing more readable. f course, since they use one only template this is a lot easier, but I think this can be done anyway. Tell me what you think, I can give you a hand with it if you agree.
271:
I don't know how templates can handle empty variables. The animal system seems to allow easier drop of an item if it is empty. With composite-box it is also easier to change things later, e.g. "city-people" can step by step replaced by "city-people-version-2008" if an update is necessary. Lack of
220:
I think we need a composite infobox, like the taxobox used for animal species. I wanted to avoid this. :) Maybe a box with two subboxes: one for common invariable things like the name, province, founder and common variable data such as mayor and population (all of which can be gotten easily), and
1310:
That means we could better create an integrated placebox. If it has not several partial templates we could also use a longer name, e.g. "Infobox place" to be more in line with other
Infoboxes. If the above problems with non-filled variables can be handled with if/else statements, we don't need a
297:
The problem with generalizing is the customized title, with the flag and the use of a link to the cities and provinces articles specific to the country (as in the first example of the infobox above). But the rest is perfectly usable for any country. I can see a general version of the header like
663:{{city-start}} {{city-header-ar|name=Rosario}} {{city-poli-ar|province=]|department=]}} {{city-area|area=178}} {{city-coor|coor=32_57_4_S_60_39_59_W|text=32º57’04”S 60º39’59”W}} {{city-people|pop=910,000|demonym=rosarino}} {{city-density|5,112}} {{city-authority|mayor=]|party=]}} <br /: -->
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If we're going to change the names, I suggest we do it now. I've used the box in a couple of places already. In truth, not all subtemplates should be changed; for example, city-poli-ar has province and department, which of course applies only to cities/towns, and city-authority has mayor and
336:
suffix are
Argentina-specific, but they are based on more general templates. I haven't included the mayor, because I'm wondering whether to have "Mayor: Miguel L." or "Authority: Mayor Miguel L.". The latter doesn't look that compact, but probably leaves more room for corrections later.
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I'll add the phone code. Shrinking the letters is an obsessive thing of mine - I'll take that out. Unfortunately, you can't include a template call inside the value of an attribute of another template call, and using templates to define other templates is strongly discouraged
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without too much of a structure. The coor thing is, do we really need degrees, minutes and seconds? Only up to minutes? Or just degrees, for an approximation (especially if we can't find the exact coordinates for some obscure little city)? Should we copy/paste all three
606:
to have maps for each and every city right now, anyway. One of the nagging problems is the fact that the "coordinate" templates cannot be included in the value of a parameter of another template. That means we'll have to duplicate the three coordinate templates
268:{{city-start}} {{city-header-argentina|name=Rosario|province=]}} {{city-people|pop=910,000|demonym=rosarino}} {{city-geo|area=178|density=5112}} {{city-hist|founded-by=N/A|founded-when=N/A}} {{city-current|mayor=]|party=Socialist Party}} {{city-end}}
354:
i would prefer table form. left col the names of the items, right the entries. for department: "Department: Rosario" not
Rosario Department. ... but well, that's all minor. hope you make good progress with the unerstanding of the template technique. :-)
499:
taxonomy uses same variable name for diff hierarchy levels: {{Taxobox regnum entry | taxon = }} {{Taxobox phylum entry | taxon = }} {{Taxobox classis entry | taxon = }} {{Taxobox ordo entry | taxon = }} {{Taxobox familia entry | taxon =
152:
Yes, that's why I kept it minimalistic. The alternative would be a structured set of templates like the
Taxobox, but that seems a bit too much. The "name" attribute can contain anything, so it should be possible to write
1266:
Something's not right. The header and the rest should be in separate sections; I'll fix it (following the species
Taxobox model, it should be easy). In keeping with said model, I'll also rename "-start" to "-begin".
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Well it does help locate the city, doesn't it? I personally think it's fine, compact and to the point. I'll take care of the template(s). I'm not really thrilled by the profusion of templates we need, BTW...
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Yes, Tobias, I read your comments. Table format can be achieved (I think/hope so) even with multiple mini-templates inside start-end templates. I will give it a try (we can always roll them back if necesary)
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dept and province also applies to villages, gold mines etc. I suggest something like placebox-province and placebox-department. there are maybe 20 subdivision terms that can be used all over the world.
306:
I'm trying to understand what happens if a parameter value contains another template. It seems we could define one template in terms of the other. That'd be more or less like subclassing in
1084:
political party. But the area, density, population, demonym, coordinates, an possibly phone code and (still not included) postal code, can be applied to places other than municipalities. --
17:
536:
The original map is not very good (it lacks of rivers and geographical accidents), but we don't have any better one. Send me an e-mail if you want me to send you the PSD or XCF project.
1175:, which is redundant and useless now. You can also delete the moved subtemplates (city-people, city-density, city-area, city-start, city-end, I think). As for advertising, maybe
248:
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Yes, you can start renaming the aproppiate templates. Tell me if you need to delete any. It would be good to promote the set of templates so people know they exist, say in
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if we make such general flexible templates, we should move from "city" to "place" or "placebox". the latter maybe little longer, but makes more clear that it is an infobox.
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My original idea was to make an infobox for
Argentine cities. Generalizing up to some point is easy; more would compromise the ease of use. Each country should "
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i would not care too much about maps. hopefully the wikimap project will make progress and maps can be server generated. But well, this may take some time. :-)
276:, but some languages have more than one ISO code. My current statement would be: Composite might be more work, but is more flexible and future proof.
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split the province,department etc stuff. then it can also used by other countries, and there is no problem with BsAsProvince which has no departments
165:". Most cities don't have that problem, or nicknames. The "other" attribute is a placeholder that could be used for such annotations, images, etc. --
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flexibility is already an issue in the language-box - someone wanted to automatically link all ISO languages code to the official entry in the
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I'd like to propose an infobox for
Argentine cities. I think we have enough cities with more or less complete data. Any suggestions? --
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inhabited place in general (maybe sometimes no mayor)? Maybe to preserve flexibility a seperate template for villages can be created.
221:
another subbox for more "technical" data such as coordinates, area, density, and eventually other stuff. Let me see what I can do. --
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Templates do not handle empty variables; if you don't specify {{{param}}}, you get the raw form, {{{param}}}, in the rendered text.
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information to add to the Info Box. Of course, I have nothing against it and would defenitelly use it. Just remembered, what about
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421:; each country has different types and levels of administrative divisions and it's too difficult to generalize. There's a
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One more thing, I don't see the need of shrinking the letters, nor the box itself. I mean, it doesn't have to look like
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831:), even though I did precisely that before. The help page is not exactly helpful - doesn't cover weird examples. --
456:" from a few general templates, but it's not very handy to have a whole hierarchy of (abstract) meta-templates. --
1309:....the above template makes extensive use of if statements. I did not know this is possible in templates. -: -->
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instead of city use place, to allow use for towns, villages, parts of towns, mines,... [biology=taxobox -: -->
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would be better, but the
Infobox talk page might be used to advertise this one as an alternative... --
1165:. The city-specific parts I left unchanged, the rest were renamed. Mariano, what you should delete is
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nevertheless, it looks not good. I personally prefer decimal notation, because it is easier to read.
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I've been taking a look at other cities, and I think it would be good to find a way to separate the
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It seems the structure can be used for other countries too. Is there a Latin
American notice board?
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for how to obtain coordinates. Is the template only for cities or maybe use it for villages =: -->
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I would use also seconds for the location. If the problem is the space in the infobox, we can
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310:, or doing a closure... never mind. I'll try at the template sandbox and see what happens. --
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http://getty.edu/vow/TGNServlet?nation=&english=Y&find=rosario&place=&page=1
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This is a proposal for the format of the
Situation maps for Cities and places in Argentina.
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specifically made for Buenos Aires (the "province" attribute is of course filled in with
127:, etc). But I'm not sure how would it look with cities for which it doesn't apply. Other
1046:. you can always set the seconds to 30 if you don't have the information (middle point).
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instead of city, but for that we have ot have something really flexible, and polished.
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information would be #of cars, age average, economical indexes, alfabetization, etc.
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247:, but it seems a bit too detailed. What do you think? I'd prefer a composite like
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I would add departments. Maybe in the long run also geographic coordinates. See
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with the content: |- |colspan="2" align="center"| ]. Hope you all like it.
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not sure whether Mariano read my statement above: I too prefer table format.
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should the coor thing go more top? should it be without saying "Location"?
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302:{{city-header|title=] ''] in ]'' |name=Rosario |div=] |divname=]}}
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of one template in your template! What means that you cut&paste
1225:, and tell me what you think. It might be good to created template
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I'm also thinking we could get rid of parameter names mostly... --
524:
602:, adding a map is simple (it doesn't even need tags). We don't
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18:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Argentina-related regional notice board
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like in 2 columns for better visualizaiton. As an example,
447:{{city-authority|authority=]|name=]|party=Socialist Party}}
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template. Its not the nicest thing to do, but it workas.
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Cooked. If I over-deleted sometihng, I can get it back.
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by filling in the country-specific attributes. However,
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subtemplates are specific for Argentina; for example,
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as a general coordinate lookup service (copying from
1049:I agree with the denomination of the template to
732:? not always having names is best, you could give
667:The example given below renders as on the right.
119:san Salvador de..., etc) What About nicknames? (
721:I have to argue with the coordinates sistem...
704:). I think pop density should be split too. --
1163:Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Placebox-begin
445:is a preliminar version; maybe we could have
368:Status (as of 22:32, 25 September 2005 (UTC))
105:I thought about it, and couldn't find enough
28:(this text was moved from the main talk page)
8:
1150:place has meaning of "plaza" (againt place)
1147:place is shorter than location (pro place)
829:Knowledge (XXG):Avoid using meta-templates
411:does not have a matching, general purpose
91:Founded: {{{founded}}} Mayor: {{{mayor}}}
775:'s article, but it could be a bit larger.
1177:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Cities
767:, wich formats the coordinates itself.
1221:I think I got it right. Please, check
1042:only to minutes, but have the link to
802:Oops, just remembered: telefone code?
1161:Take a look at the placebox at work:
1153:box is used in other boxes (pro -box)
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684:into a different template, and made
984:use all three. nice lookup service:
851:Don't despere! you can always put
245:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Cities
24:
637:). I think I'll do that now... --
1285:Done, please check. What now? --
529:Situation of the city of Rosario
162:Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires
118:Ciudad Autonoma..., Jujuy=: -->
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373:(example moved below, updated)
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782:foundation date?. Good work,
89:Population: {{{population}}}
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503:placebox-province|name=....
308:object-oriented programming
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1079:Place, location, placebox
332:. The templates with an
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328:See a working test at
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491:placebox-municipality
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26:{archive}} {:
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947:coor d(m(s))
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433:Buenos Aires
406:city-poli-ar
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98:{{{other}}}
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659:Wrapping up
396:city-header
182:Go for it!
899:properties
865:into your
746:60°39′59″W
274:Ethnologue
111:Short Name
77:{{{name}}}
901:from the
870:city-coor
743:32°57′4″S
689:city-coor
679:city-area
496:variabls
416:city-poli
69:Argentina
33:First try
1055:location
860:coor dms
780:official
674:I split
632:coor dms
454:subclass
125:La Linda
107:relevant
85:Province
1247:Mariano
1223:Rosario
1198:Mariano
1124:Mariano
1059:Mariano
1044:seconds
922:Mariano
907:Toronto
877:Mariano
804:Mariano
784:Mariano
773:Toronto
622:coor dm
600:Rosario
538:Mariano
330:Rosario
241:infobox
184:Mariano
133:Mariano
1316:(Talk)
1109:(Talk)
1024:(Talk)
903:values
612:coor d
583:(Talk)
513:(Talk)
360:(Talk)
284:(Talk)
212:(Talk)
65:Cities
1051:place
298:this:
204:Getty
16:<
1292:Talk
1274:Talk
1186:Talk
1091:Talk
1040:show
965:Talk
838:Talk
730:text
728:and
726:coor
711:Talk
699:coor
644:Talk
604:need
565:Talk
463:Talk
449:...
377:The
344:Talk
317:Talk
258:Talk
249:this
228:Talk
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44:Talk
1235:or
1053:or
751:/
379:-ar
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67:in
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