Knowledge (XXG) talk:In the news/Archive 15

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objections such a sudden move will prompt, but also because we (or I, to speak for myself) don't know if changing something that has sort of worked for a long time is certain to be a brilliant move. But a slight move in ditching old entries sooner is well worth a try, IMO. And thanks for adding those two new entries now, btw, I especially liked you not putting them on top, we don't need to make every new entry a new top headline. But about the complaints, and speaking as someone who has both drawn angry comments and been reverted for many of my own additions, the thing the complainers usually fail to suggest when they shout about whatever is listed, is what should be there instead. By reverting a new entry we're just putting back an old story that certainly doesn't fit the criteria (because it's not in the news anymore). So we should see any complaints in that light. I also agree that two days, or thereabout, is a reasonable guideline, but one that should be exercised with caution and if there really is anything better to put there (slow days). The Champions League entry could have been removed the day after, in my opinion, it's a prime example of news that gets old fast, while other things can stay longer than two days, people fighting somewhere for instance. About international importance, it's a tricky one, but also something we often tend to ignore somewhat anyway. But if we have an entry on some news in Australia one day, and something in India the next, and so on, we might finish the week with a rather good world neutral conscience anyway. And either way something that is major news somewhere where lots of people read Knowledge (XXG), is better than a week old entry that nobody cares about anywhere anymore. In general, if we can make an edit to ITN that makes ITN better that day, we should make that edit. But it's hard to put that down in a rule, it's often a subjective thing, and people will always complain.

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there, 7 days after the soccer match was played, and about 5 days after the world media last spoke of it. ITN as it is now could more appropriately be renamed WITN (Was In The News), as most of what's there isn't in the news anymore. We rotate every other thing on the Main Page each day (DYK twice a day), but ITN entries are kept for over a week. This makes for a bad and boring main page section and it should prompt us to reconsider the rules that make it so. I would much more welcome an opening of the floodgates (as someone above put it) and have a more timely rotation of, say, two days for most entries. In some cases, where the story and our article on it is evolving, it could stay longer, but in general two days is about as long as anything really is in the news, and is also about as long as our readers will have an interest in reading the article because of it.

2043:. The main response of other users was formatting, but it also seems that people were more comfortable making their own updates. (The more updates there are, the less people obsess over each one.) This lasted until a vandal deleted the updated section in an article and an admin, without checking the article history, removed the ITN item for failing the criteria. A few admins who apparently been quietly seething at what they felt were insufficiently updated articles took the opportunity to express their frustration (and add the "reasonable amount of information" line to the lede on this page). I personally felt that the constant turnover was good for the Main Page and good for the encyclopedia, but some people do love their rules. 2205:

tags (as if it were of any personal interest to me). Nobody bothered to add a single reference or expand the coverage of the event. Of course it's easier to talk for hours than to add a sentence of substance. Some folks like to believe that they are here to pontificate about consensus, while others are to stoop to menial work such as writing articles. Naturally, I leave this page in disgust, so as to let others to "highlight encyclopaedia" as they term it by posting thrilling headlines about elections in Lesoto and Sierra Leone ad infinitum. --

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developed a full-fledged update. For FAs, you don't want people dumping info in haphazardly, while DYKs often tend to be a bit obscure and also have a wealth of contributors willing to create Start-class articles if it gets them on the Main Page. The problem on ITNs is that there is plenty of information on the web, but not enough editors directed to relevant articles. In this situation, it seems logical to post the borderline cases, rather than trying to adopt DYK or FA standards to a new template. -

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not saying this is guranteed to work. Our current system kind of works because most articles aren't updated enough that we have to consider them. We get debate but it's usually not that major except in a few case. The trouble is, if we allow anything of key international interest even if the article hasn't been updated enough, we risk opening up endless debate about what is and isn't of international interest. Is

2702:(Reindent): IMHO for me there'll be 2 kinds of sports stories which will be included: the default ones, the big 4 of North America, UCL, the World Cups (FIFA, Rugby, Cricket), the World Championships (FIBA and ice hockey) and certain Olympic events; and the special occurrences ones, like this year's FA Cup and anything that involves riots and spectacular occurrences. -- 1959:: "It should be a story of an international importance, or at least interest". (Of course, if that were relaxed, I am sure we would get more complaints about the main page being bias toward a particular country). Third, if there were a rotation, I would prefer to have it every 48 hours instead of daily just in case there is "a slow news day". 2429:

scoring both goals for the champions" (or something like that), which I find more worthy of mentioning. But I think what's there is good enough. People should read the article for more. To the ones complaining about too much soccer, I don't see any soccer-news for about a year now that will be worthy

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I agree with this. ITN is way too stale and old entries stay on long after they were "In The News". I just removed a 12 day old entry (due to main page balance reasons, not because I could replace it with anything blessed by the sacred rules, mind you), and we still have the Champions League final up

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The census about 2 months ago was that only the premier event of a sport would be in INT. It really isn't that hard to figure out what is the premier event of a sport. And when it's crystal clear that FIFA world cup is the premier event of soccer why is there this double standards? And it's not that

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were featured on ITN belatedly. But ironically the flooding in Indonesia at around the same time was never mentioned much and still isn't mentioned much. While systematic bias will never disappear, IMHO it would be better to reduce it in ITN by relaxing the article update requirements. Of course I'm

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Which underscores a problem trying to put new items on ITN everyday: even if there is a very active news day around the world with many stories coming out of international interest, there may not be much editing activity from Wikipedians to get the corresponding WP articles up to par and suitable to

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The former strikes me as better; the item's certainly not exorbitantly long with the inclusion of both parties, and the party links are surely useful. Relatedly, I wonder whether, even as both the Sarkozy and the election articles have been updated, such that either might properly be emboldened, we

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would certainly help. It's easier for the DYK people to find candidates because they get more nominations. I'm also convinced that slacking/changing the criteria will have people complaining. I think it would be wise to not make a sudden change in how we implement the rules, both because of all the

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I don't know; however, I found the 2003 Rugby World Cup between the Aussies and England much, much more exciting then the H-Cup final. The Super 14 Final wasn't broadcast in our place. Also I would tend to think that national team competitions are a notch better than club competitions but it is NOT

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for a Google News search of "FA Cup": you'll see reports from Australia, Indonesia, the US, Malaysia, New Zealand, India, Israel, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, etc. Seems to be of some international significance, no? I fully agree that the article isn't terrific, but hopefully our community will

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I have not followed the news since about 8 PM French time, when the first poll results were revealed, but I don't think the French are that fast and counted all the votes already - so Sarkozy might be the winner of the elections with all probability, or at least the polls, but until he is announced

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Well it will be up should be up to the projects of each sport to decide what they want on the INT to be mentioned. But just for the heck of it, rugby- it would be the world cup and for basketball it would be the NBA finals. So that still works out, by letting the sports' projects deciding which is

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If we go by this, than this is going be become very biased in the future. We had a census the last time we had the discussion about but regarding a different sport and so it was said that sporting events other than the premier ones of each sport. So I don't see why there is changes when it's about

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The dispute here seems to be on the nature of what we should be putting on the page; I think you're being overly broad in your reading of the criteria. Yes, it complies; it has been updated, and you can interpret it as being of international significance (though personally I have my doubts). But I

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The dummy spit above highlights my points further above at 16:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC). The major problem isn't that the International interest rule needs loosening, as I pointed out, it already is lose. The major problem is the process is bewildering and the consensus that has been arrived at isn't

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I suggested an international item here (probably for the first time during my three years in the project), but was promptly assaulted in a rather unpleasant manner and lectured upon the mythical "consensus". I was further accused of "defensiveness", while the article was flooded with inappropiate

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The latter is an important factor, even if we ignore the "importance" aspect entirely - it's why we miss out things like routine obituaries as a rule, because the article really doesn't change much beyond adding a death date. In this case, the article isn't likely to be updated with anything more

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I would support the idea of loosening up the rules in principle. I'm not so sure about letting in too much sport or even national news that holds little international interest but IMHO it might be an idea to allow articles which have been updated sufficiently to show the story is real and of key

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Sports scores are a good example of a topic that gets old quickly. Many people, both here and elsewhere, often make the suggestion to remove such and such an article as it is old or for a similar reason. ITN currently works like a queue; new items get added to the top, older items shift down the

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The reason there's a line in the sand on sports is if we loosen the criteria we open the floodgates for inclusion of an overwhelming quantity of sports results. The current arrangements were put in place after a period of many many sports related candidates. Sports results are something like the

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I noticed the same thing with my own test - in that I'd sometimes wait days for an item at the portal to also have a corresponding updated article. Which is also why I ended up doing my own updates when I got bored of waiting. What I also found was that once an item was put on ITN, it rapidly

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We can loosen up the procedures so we can include some national news and more sports scores, even if its not the "premier competition," whatever that is. And we may not worry about some complaints "this shouldn't be there" since many news articles will be posted and will also be removed rather

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Here we go again with double standards. I thought that it was a census that only the premier sporting event of a sport would be on the INT? That would be the FIFA World Cup in the case of Football, not FA Cup or UEFA Champions League Final. This means that without being biased or having double

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International significance isn't really proved by that, the same could be said for countless other events. This is only a national cup, which is played annually and thus doesn't stand out like larger events (Olympics, FIFA World Cup) do. Another factor to consider is sports vs. "real news". I

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finale than (looking at the current template) Eurovision, political rallies in Pakistan, yet more deaths in Afghanistan, yet more political rallies in Turkey, and election-related violence in the Philippines. Certainly the night results are announced, they will be of more interest among most

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Yeah, I never said we should have double standards for our news either but I don't think there that much of a double standards as the last time I saw (I might have missed some) a news relating to us was the VT one. Anyways the soccer one is bit more obvious, so something needs to

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to provide news reports, but to direct readers to articles that have been authored or updated to include information pertaining to current events of international interest or importance. Someone who wishes to learn the specific details behind this event should read our article.

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Eurovision is a competition between countries, under cooperation between many organisations, much in the same vein as the Olympics or similar. American Idol is a television show made by one network/producer. As Golbez said "nowhere near the same league". If all the disparate

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I am inclined to agree with this. That said, sports scores are ephemeral objects, and I'd also point out that a week on ITN is probably long enough for the Champion's League too, especially since it was the top headline for most of that week (which was itself a poor idea.)

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case? ETA? JFK plot? Kenyan shootout? Laos coup plot? There is obviously a big risk that by relaxing the substanial update requirement we may in fact make systematic bias worse rather then better. The other issue of course is do we risk becoming wikinews by doing this?

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Seconded. My gripe is with the proliferation of political trivia in ITN. For most people there can be nothing more boring than elections in tiny prosperous democratic countries such as Latvia and Ireland. Let's give more coverage to news from other fields of knowledge.

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But is the club one the premier one over the national one? If so then it should be the other way arround. I don't really know much about rugby league but either way it should be the premier event regardless of it being a club, national or international competition of a

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IMHO, we'd only have to loosen up one rule (as mentioned above), the international interest part. As long as it's reported by major news outlets (excluding wire stories like the Reuters reports you see on the newspaper) and it's encyclopedic; heck we have

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I figure that it's worth repeating an experience I had last October. Fed up with the ridiculously long time it took to get an ITN update, I decided to see if I could average two new items a day, which is not a big deal for a sometimes news junkie. See

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The Super 14 nor Heineken Cup is the premier event for rugby, it's the Rugby World Cup which is. Figuring out what the premier sporting event of a sport isn't that hard and when it crystle clear I see no point of these and the FA cup being up other than

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IMHO, the reason why this should be on ITN is because both CFC and MUFC participated, the two best English teams (the FA Premier League may be the most watched soccer league in the world), and like the Quebec elections a few weeks ago, there's something

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hard to figure out that NBA finals and the super bowl is the premier events of basketball and American football. So only the most premier event of a sport not what is the premier event out of knockouts, not the premier event of a region but it was that

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Oh, I know that but I just wanted to bring that to people's attention, as the same thing is keeps on happening favoring soccer for some reason. Yeah I know soccer is the most popular sport in the world but still there shouldn't be double standards for

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The problems that we are seeing are; a lack of suitable candidates; a general misunderstanding of what ITN's purpose is; and a slightly convoluted system for making suggestions. The first point is partially a result of the second two in my opinion.

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standards the INT should have all major sporting events which there is a lot of and would cause the INT to become bloated. This should be in the current events and wikinews but as discussed before and per the census, this shouldn't be in the INT.--

2641:, the teams that competed finished 1-2 at the Premiership and it was played in a predominantly English-speaking country. I doubt if next year's FA Cup would be included again unless the competing teams finished 1-2 again at the Premiership. -- 1994:

queue until they are pushed off ITN in an organic manner. Making subjective decisions about whether an item should be removed out of turn will probably lead to complaints and more arguments. This is why things are currently handled as a queue.

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If your response to that is "yes, but we need an international balance to keep relevant to everyone around the world," then my point is proven. I doubt there is much overlap between the people interested in Eurovision and those interested in

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That is, ITN is most certainly not exclusive to live, developing events; in fact, it actually eschews certain types of these. The FA Cup is a notable current event, and also serves to replace an eight day old blurb. Hope this helps!

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The French exit polls are usually pretty accurate, as most polling stations (i.e., all outside the biggest cities) close at 6pm local time. There is time to collect together a large sample before announcing the exit poll result at 8pm.

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ITN is not a newspaper, yes. Its intended purpose is to provide pointers to significant encyclopedic background material that a reader would probably not find in a newspaper, on items that are currently in the world media's attention.

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weather, there's a constant flow of information. With weather we only report on the extraordinarily notable events, like hurricanes. Sports results by themselves aren't particularly notable, unless something extraordinarily happens.

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Although being the most popular and most played sport leaps and bounds, soccer gets to be mentioned at least twice a year - the FA Cup (if the competing teams ended 1-2 in the premiership) and the UEFA CL by default. The local

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is televised outside of the United States, it's a strictly American competition (hence the title). Numerous other countries/regions (including Canada) have their own versions of the program, and I can't see how any (including

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lose too much information? The rallies are against a particular party, and in preparation for a particular election. That information is now not in ITN. Shouldn't it be? Can it be included without making the piece too long?

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or similar which IMHO aren't really that big stories. Rather there have been a number of big and clearly important stories that were never on ITN simply because the article wasn't updated enough. A key example would be the

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You're basically saying there should no soccer news on ITN for 3 years? No news for the world's most popular sport? If that'll be the case we should have in-game updates on ITN for the duration of the World Cup, hehehe.

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mentioning on ITN, save for exeptional unforseable events. And I should also mention that I did remove the FA-cup news item out of normal order when I put this in. So at least it's not more soccer today than yesterday.

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final on Wednesday, which we'll definitely list, so for the sake of not having too much European football in less than a week, I suggest removing the FA-cup news before it normally would be purged off the bottom of ITN.

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I agree with coelacan. We've continued to be premature with a lot of electoral items of late. We should be more careful not to "announce" the wrong winner by accident, as has happened in some media outlets too eager to

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I agree about taking "Socialist" away and bolding the link to the election article. Also, all the news websites I can think of are giving numbers between 52.7 and 53.1%, so we should probably say 53% instead of 53-55%.

379:. In this case, exit polls had been circulating on the sites of Belgian and Swiss newspapers since 17:05 CEST (first that I personally saw), but we kept them off until the official blackout was lifted at 20:00 CEST. 355:

Actually, I just thought of an easy way to quantify it. Normally, the runner-up candidate concedes, or makes a statement to the media challenging the results. We shouldn't report until one of those events happens.

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Really doesn't matter if it's club or national team playing in the compititions, it's not hard to know that FIFA world cup is the premier of soccer. The premier event of a sport could be national or club doesn't

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but currently there are several candidates that were intresting and up-to-date. If we can accept more candidates, we can prevent ITN from becoming stale and prevent old and forgetten news from being displayed.

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Removing old entries subjectively will also not solve the fact that we occasionally don't get enough new items suggested. Hence the title of this section. In regards to sports, loosening up the rules just

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Per your request, I've restored an item. Please note, however, that the main page doesn't look the same on everyone's screen. For me, the balance was slightly better before. That, however, will change

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allowed entries to be written in ITN format, e.g. with bolded links if there is an updated article and with freely licensed images on the side. That way everyone would have one page to worry about. -

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an incoming TFA is short, lengthening DYK for MainPage balance should be easy to do. The opposite is true for ITN -- it's easy to trim off an old news item but new qualifying items are hard to come by.

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IMHO the FA Cup is the "premier" knockout tournament in soccer, in fact perhaps it is the only one shown outside of its country that generates enough interest that it was shown in places as far away as

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To follow up with your misguided assertions, the FA Cup is most certainly of interest outside of the UK, using myself as an example, hehe. In addition, ITN states that articles should be included if;

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complex than it has now; there isn't going to be any ongoing development of the article, it's stable, it's done. ITN material really ought to be stuff which is still live, still being developed...

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documented anywhere in a clear and obvious manner. We need to overhaul the 3 to 4 pages of this project and make it a much simpler process for people to suggest, work on and include items. --

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Included the parties (this version is still shorter than the Scottish item), bolded the election since that article is more up-to-date, and went with 53% as that's where the sources point.

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I'm not keen on us reporting anything from exit polls. But as a matter of wording, I disagree. He was "elected" when the last vote was cast as the last polling booth closed. Anyway, Royal

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I really think this doesn't belong here. Yes the FA cup is important, but when it comes down to it, it's just another yearly nation cup in history. People are dying in Lebanon folks... --

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This seems of questionable international importance. The reference to 'Scotland's Dario Franchitti' suggests that it was national teams taking part, when in fact it wasn't. Reword?--

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b) the linked article is trivially updated; it just has a new scoreline and which guys played. No lengthy current coverage, no continuing development, just a blank part filled in.

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I think the FA-cup final deserves mentioning in ITN, but it's a kind of news that gets old really fast. So I suggest removing it within about two days. There's also the upcoming

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results wont be declared for a few days yet, to give time for any final challenges, but the French Interior Ministry is already giving results which probably won't change much

2240:. There's no point in forging "3 to 4 pages" of guidelines, if these are supposed to perpetuate erroneous preconceptions based on imperfect understanding of our policies. -- 1264:

The NBA is the "premier" club tournament of basketball, with the NBA Finals as the championship series, the Super Bowl is the "premier" game of American football, and so on.

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that happened next year. Personally I won't support the addition FA Cup Final next year if both participants aren't the two teams didn't finish 1-2 in the Premier League. --

2610:? Although I'll tend to pick the UCL Final over that since more English-speakers tend to care about the UCL. And this will also present more problems for other sports like 340:

Yeah, Borisblue is saying the same thing above as well. I would prefer that we not "scoop" any election results. I don't know exactly how to quantify that, though. ··

399:". ITN should only point to articles within Knowledge (XXG) that have been brought up to an encyclopedic standard, not those which resemble newspaper articles. -- 2583:

hmm, I see your point. How about one per year for each sport? That should be should fair. So unlike the FA being on the INT it would just be UCL. Fair Enough?--

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s got together and had an international grand final of sorts, then we might consider it. But still probably not. Ultimately it's a profit making enterprise. --

2002:. The reason we introduced a rule about only listing scores from peak body competitions in each sport was to stop ITN being a scoreboard, as it did in 2006. 395:. Newspapers often get things wrong in their haste to report news. We should wait until at least the opposition has conceded, and even then only phrase it " 1425: 580: 263: 1424:

Club and national team competitions are different, with club competitions further divided into league and cup competitions. Look, Chelsea can beat

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We could have done without the FA cup result on ITN. The UCL bit was ok, but putting a domestic cup result like FA on ITN was a bit too much.

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I'm in the U.S., but know that Eurovision is a much bigger deal, and has been on for decades. Apparently 100+ million viewers for Eurovision

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and instead post about the Olympic Tournament and/or World Championship? (which is "more premier" between the two?) How about the upcoming

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might do well to bold the link to the election article, which is surely more comprehensive than, and as current as, the Sarkozy article.

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The definition of "premier sporting event of a sport" is very, very, very, very, very, very vague. So in basketball, we'll leave out the

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This will be the best solution, IMO. Replace FA Cup with UEFA CL winner then remove the UEFA CL item when it's at the end of the list. --

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s season 3 finale (Fantasia-Degarmo) was shown on free TV on our place. The World Cup final wasn't shown on cable until last month, lol.

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for crying out loud. Other ITN candidates were passed up while I thought they were deserving, they're not just that "international." --

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took place. And I would not be surprised if the outcome would be the same – - no consensus, and thus the scores on ITN will continue.

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Currently, the right hand column on the main page is too short - revert the last news item removed as that it seems more balanced. --

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Because currently, some news items are so old now (like the FA Cup), and some weren't "promoted" like the two rugby competitions. --

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Your assertions are just as "misguided" or not as mine are, thank you very much! Anecdotal evidence really doesn't indicate much...

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Could we not have waited until the official results were announced? I don't like the precedent being set of announcing exit polls.

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next week should be on ITN. I ain't suggesting that this be featured on ITN. Just an early discussion. Any thoughts, anyone ? --

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Sadly, shooting people and bombing in Lebanon are also a yearly thing in the region's history. Perhaps more often than yearly. --

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Fascinating. I am not surprised that this discussion is taking place. It has been almost a year since the debate now archived at

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Being the second most played sport, basketball gets to be mentioned only twice, heck even once a year - the conclusion of the

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suitable at the time, in terms of being internationally interesting, well-written, non-stubby, fully-updated articles.

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In regards to topics not sporty, there's a good argument to loosen criteria #3 a little. But wait; it's already lose!:

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These two are the premier club competitions of rugby. Club and national team competition are different. And how about

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I'm the one who put this on ITN, and I thought about making it longer, though I was thinking more about adding "with

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really of international interest? Was the debate in the UK sparked by Straw's comments of international interest (

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This means that items that are otherwise local, but in the attention of the World's media can and do get included.

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Nope; if you include American Idol you open up ITN to any similar reality tv competition, American or otherwise. -

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which occurs annually gets to be mentioned every year while #1 sport doesn't get to be mentioned for 3 years? --

1065: 910:, but it didn't generate as much interest as expected (or anything approaching the popularity of Eurovision). — 2281: 2156:? What about the guidance by the UK MOE in March 2007 (which from memory was proposed for ITN). What about the 666: 167: 242: 2090: 1268: 1087:

strongly disagree that the FA Cup is worthy of an in-the-news item, which is what prompted me to come here.

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I'm not only talking about sports results but other news that might have a chance of being there, like the

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is the premier club competition for basketball in Asia, but only the Arabs care about this tourney. --

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or the World Cup? How about basketball? The Olympic tournament or the World Championships? How about

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which shows only one candidate's party and doesn't link to it. Not very helpful. I suggest either

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they have been updated to reflect an important current event—rather than conventional news items.

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You are welcome. Next time you have suggestions for small tweaks on ITN, you may want to post at

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I don't think so; it has limited viewership (on the global scale). Just the U.S. and Canada. --

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Is it just coincidence that it has the same initials as a national news broadcaster in the UK?

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You didn't give me and the rest of middle-class America Jerry Falwell; now you want to deny us

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is an oft-updated article that puts the ITN piece into meaningful context, being that it's the

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An encyclopedia is not a newspaper. We don't need headlines, we have the luxury of waiting for

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Yes, but to quote "It is the worst internal fighting since Lebanon's 1975-1990 civil war." --

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are of international interest (even if the actual television programs aren't) and therefore

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Of course not, what with there being no New Zealand teams in the final of the Super 14.

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I am surprised that there is nothing about it being played at the new Wembley Stadium.

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really don't think that it's a sufficiently "developed" topic to be included here...

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is shown on more English-speaking countries than Eurovision is. Heck, I'd even bet

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I got bored watching the H-Cup so this might be better - only a one point win. --

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No matter how the two of you feel about this, please stop reverting each other.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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international interest even if the update is minor. My bigger concern is not

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That's what the article is for. This is an encyclopedia, and the purpose of

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The same reason why U.S. stories get to be frequently displayed on ITN? --

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That isn't the point though, the point is why is there double standards?--

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Many tens of millions of North Americans (and Brits?) care more about the

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a) it's parochial. It's really not of any great interest outside the UK.

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The dummy spit aside, I outlined my view of what you really should do

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unless something extraordinary (e.g. a deadly riot) were to occur. —

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be lengthened. If that occurs, we might want to restore an item to

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be posted. As a test case, in the past two days, I recently posted

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do not really significantly update the corresponding article much.

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is still on ITN, I thought I should ask here if the conclusion of

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president by the appropriate authorities, he was NOT elected yet!

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American Idol and Eurovision are nowhere near the same league. --

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have it at 53%, and I don't see any sources reporting higher. ··

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Could we throw in a couple of words in the one-liner? Like:

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And so the soccer biased scores will continue in the INT?--

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Lengthening DYKs should be easy. Trimming DYK is harder. --

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The problem is that a lot of users who post new items on

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3. It should be a story of an international importance,

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had a larger English-speaking audience than Eurovision.

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If that's the case with the other sports than yes.--

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Template talk:In the news/Archive 7#Ditch the scores

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see the news item and help improve it! Cheers mate

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And don't even expect a deadly riot or fans hurling

2637:made it this year is that it was played at the New 823:in ITN, one majoritarian and one antimajoritarian. 642:. Response is usually quicker. Hope this helps. -- 1064:I don't believe I'm misguided at all, hehe. See 2046:On a more constructive side, my opinion is that 536:to include the fact that the winning artist was 511:. People are supposed to read the articles. — 201:I like the former, but what do others think? ·· 139:with 53-55% of the vote, defeating Socialist 8: 2394:devotes 70% of its time on soccer anyway. -- 1487:? The "premier sporting event" in rugby? -- 2819:Shhh don't talk about the conspiracy or 1377:Please mention this on ITN/C. Thanks. -- 2342:still "the most popular in the world"? 532:Is it possible for the point about the 418:will readers wonder, "why the rallies"? 1880:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia 540:? At present it has the winning song ( 292:He might have won, but was he elected? 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2386:with cries of U.S. centrism. Oh well. 977:On why this doesn't really cut it... 7: 2769:occurs at a shopping centre in the 397:XYZ has conceded the election QRP... 2792:Should be included in main page. -- 933:isn't shown as much as Eurovision, 501:Turkish presidential election, 2007 467:Turkish presidential election, 2007 193:with 53-55% of the vote, defeating 166:with 53-55% of the vote, defeating 1795:Knowledge (XXG) is not a newspaper 1497:I'd rather post the winner of the 1218:soccer. Double standards really.-- 786:Yes, incidents along the lines of 24: 2759:, should be added to the template 2097:up on ITN even through they were 2050:would be entirely superfluous if 1882:situation, and even the death of 1876:disappearance of Madeleine McCann 1829:Isn't that why wikinews is for?-- 1398:only the premier event of a sport 465:Surely it's an encyclopedia. But 2154:United Kingdom debate over veils 1730:I'm not saying that the section 1267:I can even make a case that the 29: 18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:In the news 1767:be lengthened, either. I meant 2178:2008 UEFA qualifier fan attack 702:compared with ~30 million for 191:is elected President of France 164:is elected President of France 137:is elected President of France 1: 1700:is lengthened accordingly. — 663:Eurovision Song Contest 2007 586:Eurovision Song Contest 2007 534:Eurovision Song Contest 2007 2298:Unbiased comments welcome. 1947:First, I would prefer that 503:is prominently linked from 2862: 2145:2006-2007 Malaysian floods 2614:(Super 14, Heineken Cup, 2556:Then American football's 2334:Heh, I was merely adding 2000:leads to a slippery slope 891:(insert coutry here) Idol 572:I've changed the line to 2847:21:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC) 2828:06:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC) 2814:23:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2799:22:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC) 2746:21:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC) 2736:13:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2721:06:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2684:06:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2660:06:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2602:06:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2579:05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2552:03:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2529:03:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2505:00:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 2481:11:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2458:06:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2435:05:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2413:04:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2374:00:56, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2350:00:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2330:00:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 2306:22:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC) 2245:19:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2224:18:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2210:17:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2199:16:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2166:16:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2124:00:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 2111:15:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 2080:14:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 2063:04:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC) 2027:16:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC) 1989:05:19, 30 May 2007 (UTC) 1967:04:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC) 1939:02:11, 30 May 2007 (UTC) 1923:15:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 1905:04:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 1866:14:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1848:04:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1824:03:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1777:22:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1743:17:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1718:16:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1705:16:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1682:16:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1662:05:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 1637:04:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1612:03:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1584:23:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1559:22:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1543:14:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1520:14:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1492:14:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1471:04:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1447:03:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 1419:23:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1382:15:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1357:14:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1339:14:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1330:14:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1312:04:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1290:07:44, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1237:03:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1213:03:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC) 1184:19:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1155:09:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1135:06:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1112:04:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1092:11:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1082:02:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1060:02:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1036:02:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 1020:02:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 997:01:52, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 967:02:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC) 915:14:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 898:12:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 882:05:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 871:05:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 861:05:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 804:15:56, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 770:15:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 746:15:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 718:15:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 691:14:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 674:14:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC) 667:American Idol (season 6) 647:14:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 630:13:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 603:12:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 567:00:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC) 516:23:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC) 488:23:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC) 457:20:32, 13 May 2007 (UTC) 438:19:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC) 2823:will silence you. ;) -- 2091:2007 tuberculosis scare 1269:FIBA Asia Champions Cup 848:quite popular nowadays. 404:01:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC) 387:15:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC) 367:23:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 351:23:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 336:23:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 322:22:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 302:21:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 280:20:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 256:20:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 233:19:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 223:19:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 212:19:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 115:18:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC) 607:Thanks, that's great. 199: 176: 145: 2665:the most important.-- 2268:UEFA Champions League 2070:Portal:Current events 2052:Portal:Current events 2011:or at least interest. 1951:was more active like 815:I have two arguments 266:comment was added by 180: 149: 126: 42:of past discussions. 2633:IMHO the reason the 1692:(due to the shorter 1499:Heineken Cup 2006-07 737:) would qualify for 329:report breaking news 1979:Yes, a more active 1789:Loosen up the rules 1643:always the case. -- 1485:2007 Super 14#Final 1426:Trinidad and Tobago 2843: 2141:2007 Jakarta flood 758:A deadly riot? -- 124:Currently we have 2839: 2797: 2777:, the capital of 2608:Copa Libertadores 1668:ITN way too short 946:Molotov cocktails 716: 505:Republic Protests 475:Republic Protests 283: 103: 102: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2853: 2834:Indianapolis 500 2793: 2766:A suicide attack 2757:Already proposed 2717: 2712: 2707: 2679: 2674: 2656: 2651: 2646: 2597: 2592: 2575: 2570: 2565: 2547: 2542: 2525: 2520: 2515: 2500: 2495: 2477: 2472: 2467: 2453: 2448: 2409: 2404: 2399: 2369: 2364: 2325: 2320: 2255:Nice game but... 2195: 2190: 2185: 1901: 1896: 1891: 1843: 1838: 1820: 1815: 1810: 1696:section) unless 1679: 1658: 1653: 1648: 1632: 1627: 1608: 1603: 1598: 1579: 1574: 1539: 1534: 1529: 1516: 1511: 1506: 1479:How about rugby? 1466: 1461: 1443: 1438: 1433: 1414: 1409: 1286: 1281: 1276: 1232: 1227: 1209: 1204: 1199: 1179: 1174: 1150: 1145: 1131: 1126: 1121: 1104:Champions League 1077: 1076: 1033: 1028: 1015: 1014: 963: 958: 953: 798: 766: 763: 728:I agree. While 710: 687: 684: 627: 620: 613: 577:Marija Šerifović 564: 557: 550: 538:Marija Šerifović 527:Marija Šerifović 482: 432: 361: 345: 316: 261: 250: 206: 120:include parties? 106:French elections 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2861: 2860: 2856: 2855: 2854: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2836: 2807: 2761: 2715: 2710: 2705: 2677: 2672: 2654: 2649: 2644: 2639:Wembley Stadium 2595: 2590: 2573: 2568: 2563: 2545: 2540: 2523: 2518: 2513: 2498: 2493: 2475: 2470: 2465: 2451: 2446: 2427:Filippo Inzaghi 2407: 2402: 2397: 2367: 2362: 2323: 2318: 2282:Olympic Stadium 2257: 2193: 2188: 2183: 2173: 1899: 1894: 1889: 1841: 1836: 1818: 1813: 1808: 1791: 1677: 1670: 1656: 1651: 1646: 1630: 1625: 1606: 1601: 1596: 1577: 1572: 1549:<joking: --> 1537: 1532: 1527: 1514: 1509: 1504: 1481: 1464: 1459: 1441: 1436: 1431: 1412: 1407: 1284: 1279: 1274: 1247:EuroBasket 2007 1230: 1225: 1207: 1202: 1197: 1177: 1172: 1148: 1141: 1129: 1124: 1119: 1072: 1071: 1031: 1026: 1010: 1009: 975: 961: 956: 951: 856:. For shame. -- 791: 764: 761: 685: 682: 659: 657:American Idol ? 623: 616: 609: 589:with the song " 560: 553: 546: 530: 480: 430: 420: 359: 343: 314: 294: 262:—The preceding 248: 204: 184:Nicolas Sarkozy 178:or the shorter 157:Nicolas Sarkozy 130:Nicolas Sarkozy 122: 108: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2859: 2857: 2835: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2806: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2789: 2788: 2760: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2725: 2724: 2723: 2700: 2699: 2698: 2697: 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2688: 2687: 2686: 2631: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2417: 2416: 2415: 2387: 2384:Talk:Main Page 2296: 2295: 2293: 2280:, held at the 2256: 2253: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2226: 2213: 2212: 2172: 2169: 2131: 2130: 2129: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2036: 2035: 2034: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2019: 2016: 2015: 2014: 2003: 1995: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1942: 1941: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1925: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1907: 1869: 1868: 1857: 1856: 1851: 1850: 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1350: 1346: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1337: 1336:74.13.130.205 1333: 1332: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1310: 1307: 1303: 1299: 1298: 1291: 1288: 1287: 1282: 1277: 1270: 1266: 1263: 1260: 1255: 1252: 1248: 1244: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1228: 1223: 1216: 1215: 1214: 1211: 1210: 1205: 1200: 1193: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1185: 1182: 1181: 1180: 1175: 1170: 1156: 1153: 1151: 1146: 1144: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1133: 1132: 1127: 1122: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1110: 1105: 1101: 1093: 1090: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1080: 1078: 1075: 1067: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1057: 1053: 1048: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1042: 1037: 1034: 1029: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1018: 1016: 1013: 1005: 1001: 1000: 999: 998: 994: 990: 984: 981: 978: 972: 968: 965: 964: 959: 954: 947: 943: 940: 936: 932: 928: 925: 922: 921: 916: 913: 909: 905: 904: 903: 902: 899: 896: 892: 887: 886: 883: 880: 876: 875: 872: 869: 865: 864: 863: 862: 859: 855: 847: 843: 842:American Idol 838: 835: 830: 826: 825: 824: 822: 818: 805: 802: 797: 796: 789: 785: 784: 783: 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Knowledge (XXG)

talk:In the news/Archive 15 - Knowledge (XXG)

Index