1714:
abilities, I think we can assume good faith and allow the user to have admin abilities as long as they promise not to overstep the limitations of their skill set (which is what EVERY admin does when he gets the job because no single user knows everything about everything on
Knowledge...if I ever became an admin, I wouldn't go anywhere near images because I'm just no good at it). I don't see why anyone here gets to say how long you have to be here in order to be an admin. And though you say I have an inability to "see that," and I assume you are implying that I suffer from editcountitis, I don't know how else you can determine a user's future without looking at his past. However, suffering from minimumtimeitis is BY FAR worse because it assumes that youth alone is a determining factor in the abilities of a user. A user who does 5,000 good edits in one month with lots of participation across a few different areas of Knowledge will get less support votes than a user who has done 2,500 good edits in six months. Please explain to me how the second guy has more experience, because it completely baffles me.
505:
promoted hundreds of admins over the last few months, can hardly be said to be broken. Also, Rx
Strangelove said "you're acting like the very act of talking about it is bad." Not quite. I'm saying that suggesting solutions without first having an idea what the problem is is counterproductive and will not produce solutions that solve the problem. Lots of people have suggested various forms of "RfA reform". Nobody has yet fully identified and provided evidence of their being a systemic problem with RfA. If you want to "fix" RfA, fine. Fix it. But, you could just as easily make it worse if you don't know what the problem is. Quoting from the movie Apollo 13, "Let's work the problem people. Let's not make it worse by guessing". Right now, all we're doing is guessing and suggesting solutions based on those guesses. None of us, myself included, have any evidential basis to say "RfA is broken because....". --
601:. From the linear trendline, it appears we've had a roughly 10% increase in RfA participation through the 7 month period of the data. It is a change, but it's not a large change. My counterexample is that the changes that are being suggested are being suggested because of the wrongdoings of 2 admins per suggested change. It's been suggested that the problem has arisen in the last six months. In the last six months, we've created 291 admins. 4 new problem admins (assuming no overlap) of 291 is 1.4% of the total new admins. So, we're suggesting changing RfA when it appears that RfA gets it right better than 98% of the time? Number of speedies restored might be useful. But, I don't know how to go about collecting that data. Suggestions on how to collect this data? --
515:
if they looked so itās not based on just a couple admins. My point is that they shouldnāt be singled out when the group they belong to is possibly much larger. And the flip side is that if people look, maybe they don't find anymore. So then we don't worry about that piece but there is an idea of what the problem is, it's RFA promoting admins that are not familiar with policy and use their admin powers with that flawed understanding. How wide spread the scope of the problem is unknown but you're wrong to say that no one has an idea of the problem. Like I said above, the RFA reform page has identified a group of problems, the work to be done now is to see if they are indeed problems and then fix them if they are.
1558:
them the benefit of the doubt. Same applies here at
Knowledge. Users with whom we are familiar get our respect and trust. Meanwhile, the new user is often judged quickly, chastised, blocked, etc. However, the reality that this is normal human behavior does not make it acceptable here. What we are trying to do is unique, and requires us to move away from these norms and insist that we treat others with the same respect we treat ourselves until such time as that trust is broken. Current practice at Knowledge is not strongly enforcing the notion of equality for all. In fact, rather the opposite in some cases. --
826:
arguments decide and not sheer numbers. There'd still be less people endorsing one "view" and more another but at least it'd be comment based and not support based. For (exaggerated) example there might be 20 people endorsing the view that the nominee is a good guy and 5 people endorsing a view that says the nominee has been blocked 4 times for WP:3RR violations, the minority view would probably be the one that swayed the bureaucrat's judgement. There's some things that would need to be worked out but I'd like to see a live trial. Anyway...another $ 0.02
553:
a system that has handled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of RfA noms, apparently so successfully that the best we can come up with is four problem admins (assuming no overlap) as catalysts for the last two reforms. Fix RfA because of a problem with less than 1% of the admins that get promoted? A few people also recently felt that the average number of votes per RfA had gone up significantly. I was able to show that it, in fact, had not. We can have all the feelings we'd like. Without any sort of evidence to support it, it's meaningless. I am
321:
different about the RfA process when they are adminned (if anything). Fourth, if nothing is different, what can we discern about the RfA process as it is now that might have allowed this set of admins to get through and what could we change about RfA to prevent that from happening in the future? These are the sorts of questions that need to be asked. To just say "It sucks" and "Here's how we're going to do it from now on" (which is essentially what many of these arguments boils down to) is just as likely to cause harm as it is to cause good. --
1991:. This was the first mistake. The second was when another, new, bureaucrat probably depended on this to promote Luigi at 72%+. You can see the harm of an innocent error in that Luigi is now being quoted as a precedent. I see no reason to reverse it at this point since (AFAIK) there was no objection made at the time and the damage done by a fight to try to reverse the decision would probably be more harmful than letting stand, absent an indeication that Luigi was abusing admin powers. --
1675:
shouldn't make a difference as long as the person has exhibited a massive amount of understanding and devotion to a certain
Knowledge project. Think about it...if a person has made 5,000 edits, half of which are not minor, in one month, are you really going to say, "I just don't have enough information to see if he'll abuse his powers." He's done 5,000 edits in 1 month! No vandal is that devoted. Let's all take a deep breath and get over ourselves, ok?
31:
1962:
1729:
1690:
1704:
edits. Admin candidates should have broad experience accross the project because the admin tools are broad in what they can do. No one should get the ability to block another user without demonstrating they have some maturity, understanding of policy, and ability to work through a conflict. So basically I'm agreeing with NSLE, but I'll never agree to a hard edit count limit as the above section proposes. -
1469:
they're most comfortable with, and that's reverting vandalism. Some (if not most) also spread their wings to blocking vandals, but so far, the only real mistakes I've seen these guys do is maybe blocking vandals a little too early (ie, before sending a test3 or test4), but I have to say that jumping the gun a little on blocking vandals isn't as serious a crime as, say, wheel warring or blocking
337:
there's a whole page where people are talking about RFA, is it broken? it's not broken? what can and can't be done....no one is forcing anything on anyone. But if you going to make me list names of admins I think shouldn't have passed on RFA, I'm not going to...again, it's up to everyone who has an interest to look and decide for themselves. I'm not asking anyone to take my word on it.
1967:
1734:
1695:
299:"By the end of this week, I would like to see a rough draft of a modified RFA system." Sigh. Ok, first, tell me what's wrong with the admin pool right now? What proof do you have the system is BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE? What targets do you have in mind for evaluating whether a change has the desired effect? It's like a broken record around here. "RfA is broken! <brawk: -->
1367:
and reverts. I'm on the fence about making the rest a harder guideline, but what keeps me from it is that the RfA process isn't terribly broken. Such a smallĀ % of problem admins shows the process is pretty good. What needs to be done is make it easier to remove adminship from those that abuse it, as per the admin accountability poll. -
1610:
handled themselves in a conflict with other editors -- usually, over content -- before I'm comfortable saying yes. Generally, of course there may be exceptions. But generally. How someone handles themselves in conflicts and a basic knowledge of
Knowledge's policies and workings are the most important factors for me. Ā·
1609:
In a nutshell, I completely agree with NSLE. Now that folks are using popups-assisted software to revert vandalism, the rollback button isn't needed for folks who like to spend their time fighting vandals. (Of course being able to enforce a test4 warning is nice too.) I need to see how someone has
1366:
I would agree personal standards should include all of the above except the edit count. I'd much rather see an editor that has been here for 3mo plus and made 500 large, important edits, including discussions and demonstrating understanding of policy than someone that has made 2000 category additions
1317:
It seems that if even a small number of users really feel that this is necessary, it wouldn't be necessary in the first place because people who didn't meet these standards wouldn't be passing their nominations. This particular proposal doesn't make a strong case for making adminship less obtainable,
1291:
Sorry if I didn't clearly define recent memory but when I said recent memory I meant like a week. Like, if a user was just blocked a week/a week and a half ago for 3RR that wouldn't exactly help in an RFA they would be starting. So we might suggest waiting for a bit for things to cool down around the
1200:
That's my idea. Just hardening some of the standards. It's just users with 1-2 months experiance have been nominated for RFA with little to no oppostion. Not saying that there wasn't any oppostion but there was more support than oppose. I don't think there's any harm for users to wait 2-3 more months
655:
I worry about anyone who tries to standardize their deviations, or admit to skew.Ā :) Anyways, I think the chart shows the point that I made some weeks ago, that RfA votes have increased only a little bit. That was my point. As per sample set, I realize people are reluctant to name individuals. To me,
346:
Good point. However, it need not be your personal opinion. Are there any admins that, within a few weeks after being "instated", were the subject of strong controversy? I can think of one, who did a number of controversial deletes (don't recall the name, sorry, but it was all over DRV). He got flamed
1946:
Well, it seems the error was a mistake in determining our meaning of "consensus." Obviously, this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time, so it follows that we take it on a case-by-case basis. Since nothing seems to have come out of this case, the only time we should ever really worry about it is
1703:
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here. There are plenty of users that make tons of edits that would be entirely unsuitable for adminship. It appears you are either not looking hard enough or haven't been around long enough to see that. Some of our most problematic admins make a ton of
1595:
I might not go so far as to call blocking Jimbo "a crime", but I also can't think of any reason that blocking him would be warranted (except perhaps if there was credible evidence that his account had been hijacked). As the founder of
Knowledge, there's an overwhelming assumption that all of Jimbo's
1547:
So, while wheelwarring may be a crime, blocking Jimbo or any other user is not a crime. I am assuming that a user gets blocked when he is in the wrong. If the blocking is not done per policy, blocking a noob or an anon is as serious a crime as blocking Jimbo. Please let us not perpetuate a hierarchy
1509:
please. If all they keep to is vandal fighting, then what's the worry? If they decide to venture outside of vandal fighting, then we presume they exercise good judgement; and that's part of what RfA is supposed to do - see if the candidate exhibits good judgement. Besides, as has recently been shown
1416:
I would argue that new admins need not be familiar with all the policy minutiae of
Knowledge. More important is that they be prepared to ask other admins for assistance if they are unsure of what to do in a particular situation, and ot explain their actions calmly and politely if asked. If our new
1412:
I agree that NSLE has a pointāreverting vandalism alone does not a good admin make. To be fair, dealing with vandals and trolls is a good chunk of what a lot of admins do. Vandal whacking is much easier with rollback and blocking tools, and a familiarity with vandal tactics is definitely useful to
1276:
I'd definetly like to see 'recent memory' (of controversial edits/blocks/actions/etc.) cleary defined. If a user has done something considered inappopriate 3 months ago but has been a perfect
Wikipedian since, is this ground for a criticism? What about 1 months, or 1 year? A clear rule would ban any
825:
I like it too....I've always thought that it should be run a little more like an RFC. Views, pro and con...endorsing said views and let a bureaucrat make a judgment. I know that's a little beyond the scope of what you had in mind but it's down the same road I think. Something like this would let the
552:
Because the last time RfA reform in the form of 30 minimum support votes to pass was suggested, it turned out there were two...just two...problem admins that were the catalyst for the suggested reform. Once again, it appears there are "1 or 2" problem admins that are providing the catalyst to change
440:
I understand the desire for a crisp quantative metric, but good luck. The only thing that springs to mind would be a ratio of restored deletes to speedies comparing admins at various stages of maturity, but that's a sparse sample and no assurances that we're catching bad speedies anyway. How about
333:
RFCs go, it's too big of a stick and carries too much baggage...again, it's a system wide problem that an RFC on one or two editors won't fix. For what it's worth the admins I am referring to have been admins for less than 6 months so were subject to the same general rules as RFC is working with now.
332:
I'm not going to name names, for several reasons, not the least of which is that it would hang a system-wide problem on the backs of a small group of editors. It's a fairness issue. Anyone can look into the deletion/block logs and admin boards to decide for themselves if there's a problem. As far as
310:
RFA is producing admins that are not familar with policy and do not effectively carry it out. In some cases they cause damage by misapplying policy. As I said above, I know several admins that do not apply blocking/deletion standards correctly and have not been responsive to comments/questions. It's
1809:
Is that a dare, Megaman? An experienced user who focussed solely on categories, RC, and AFD, could easily rack up that many in a month if they had too much free time. After all, that's only about 136 edits a day, and there have to be at least that many AFDs and actionable recent changes in a day...
1742:
If I can take a stab at it, the latter may be seen as having more experience because edits =/= page views. Someone who has been here for one month and done 5000 non-bot edits gives the appearance of having had their nose almost entirely in the edit screen; someone who has done less total edits in a
1713:
I don't think you understand what I'm saying, which is essentially that it's possible for a person to be here for a month and understand enough to be a pretty good admin. Since when has adminship been an exclusive club? If a user makes a whole bunch of good edits, and shows good conflict resolution
1557:
I would argue that there is a cabal, if unintentional and not organized as such. There are people who can literally get away with anything, and have nothing come of it. We as humans tend to stratify. The more we know someone, the more likely it is that we will trust them (or distrust them) and give
1450:
be aware of most policies and guidelines, should be a fairly competent mediator, knows when to keep their cool, and has the well-being of wikipedia in mind. Reverting vandalism is of course a valid part of my last point, but NSLE is correct in assuming that has little to do with the selection of an
1106:
I think we should make a set of rules like that to make
Adminship not so obtainable. I especially think the one about vandalism reverting edits only is important because anyone can revert vandalism. It's having a working knowledge about what the WP policies are is what's important. I know adminship
514:
I'm afraid that logic is flawed....your statement isnāt reflexive, that is, there's potentially one problem we're talking about but (again potentially) a larger group of admins contributing to it. I found a couple admins that aren't up to snuff, Slim ran into a couple and presumably others would to
504:
Rx
Strangelove said "it would hang a system-wide problem on the backs of a small group of editors." My apologies for my confusion, but it seems you're advocating system wide changes because of a small group of editors. If there truly are just one or two admins who are a problem, then RfA, which has
1877:
With the closing of CS,CWEM's RFA, closing bureaucrat Cecropia noted "no consensus" (77% support over oppose). BorgHunter and myself referenced Luigi30's third RFA, which passed (72% support over oppose). Cecropia then said that Luigi30's promotion "was a clear error by a new Bcrat". I'm sorry for
1385:
in part as well) have been because the nominee is a "tireless vandal whacker" or some other. Remember, people, good vandal whackers are not necessarily good admins. If all they keep to is vandal fighting there is no way to trust that the nominees understand Knowledge policy enough. Please, people,
1341:
This is true. However, I get the impression that, while many people decry the "brokenness" of RfA, and seem to be trying to fix it on that (mistaken, imo) basis, there does remain the possibility that what RfA does can be done in a better way than at present, without the present way actaully being
1165:
First off, I'm not anti-wiki. That's why I'm trying to help out. I hardly think it's instruction creep either. It's not to many things to keep up with considering how many RFA's are up at a time. It wouldn't be to long to figure out if someone is eligible for an RFA or not. I know it "should be no
1071:
Ok this is probably one of the biggest issues on Knowledge that people may not realize. There has been RFA's as of late that have hade great support but for users that have been here for 1-2 months and that have a great number of edits but in nothing but vandalism reverts. I propose, per voting if
1015:
It's the relevance of a comment/argument that matters and not how many people line up behind something. And in any case you're the one that brought the 500 word essay up, it's got nothing to do with the point I was making and it never will. I'll ignore the irrelevant VFD remark...oh wait, it's AFD
660:
be taken to task and they're not. The point is, people are clamoring for change yet have not been able to identify what is wrong. The last two changes suggested have been pinned on the backs of, at most, 4 admins. That's not a glaringly clear basis on which to change RfA. I think the point's been
320:
Which admins in particular? Let's stop beating around the bush. If you're not willing to name names, we're not going to get anywhere. You're asserting proof that can't be verified. Second, why haven't these admins been subject to an RfC? Third, when were these admins made into admins and what was
264:
I'm pretty sure it's got broken elements, as all of the "popularity contests", revenge-voting, and IRC-influenced decisions will attest to. While I agree that a longer time for consideration might be necessary (and I would hope Linuxbeak would extend if people are still working on a proposal), as
1674:
to be involved in everything on Knowledge? What's the deal with these high standards when most normal people haven't got enough time to explore every crevasse of this website. Let's relax on the standards, folks, and make a judgment call on each individual. One month, four months, two years...it
1669:
I'm going to have to disagree with you, NSLE. I have recently had a change of heart on this subject. I used to want participation across many different kinds of project namespaces and talks. Now, I'm completely content with heavy participation in just one project namespace and its talk page (for
1473:
from editing. Unless there is more evidence that pure vandal fighting admins are causing a lot of the new wheel-warring problems, I'd have no problem with the several recent nominations of specialised vandal-fighters (though I won't necessarily support these candidates because of my own personal
370:
Check out the admin's noticeboard. I've seen at least two instances this week of a new admin who was so inexperienced with the processes he was performing that he had to ask on the noticeboard whether he could do something. Not exactly good credentials, if you ask me. One of them used the phrase
1468:
of vandal fighters who do little else. I'd feel more comfortable voting in someone who's done a little more non-vandal-fighting activities around Knowledge. However, I agree with TenOfAllTrades: these vandal-fighting new admins aren't necessarily the problem: these folks tend to stick with what
336:
As far as saying it sucks and trying to force something on people, I don't know where that comes from. That's why we're talking about it....you're acting like the very act of talking about it is bad. There's no reason on earth not to talk about it and keep an open mind. Flexability is good, and
200:
I hate to add a little rain to the parade, but any scheme concoted in one week will be unfit for purpose by virtue of having been concoted in one week flat. We can't very well test-drive it, either: we need either to take it or leave it, otherwise the legitimacy of adminships granted during the
580:
things are. Again, if we don't have a metric, any metric, then random change really isn't a problem. It's managed to turn us from slime molds into wikipedians, although it's taken a long time. I again propose that we start with the metric of number of speedies restored. It's crap, but it's
406:
That is true, and it's no biggie, but we do have a rather extensive "recommended reading list" for admins. My example may not be the best, but I am one of the few people who opposes admin candidates if they lack experience with process, and in my opinion that factor should be weighed in more
311:
my feeling that without the beauty pageant aspect of RFAs it would produce better admins and without voting bureaucrats would be freer to select people that have shown themselves to understand policy. There's nothing sacred about how RFA works at the moment. And I'm not going to name names.
610:
That graph isn't providing me with enough information to make a sound conclusion. Can you either present it in box-and-whisker form so that we can also see the medians and distributions as well as the mean, or provide the base data that you've used? Looking at what's on the RFA page
1188:
Not 'bad' users, but users who, I have concluded, were pretty clueless about some pretty important aspects of adminning. Presumably a tenure longer than 6-8 weeks would have helped with that. I've decided to harden my personal standards to making 3 months a pretty 'bright line'.
2041:
There were a significant amount of neutral votes as well, and, if included with the other votes, brings the total tally to 173. While the support:oppose ratio was 77%, the support:total ratio was only 68%. I'm not sure if that had any bearing in Cecropia's decision, though.
288:
in question. Otherwise, people wanting this process to move forward (independant of whether it will be adopted) will be sidelined by a discussion here. By all means, if you don't think it's broken, feel free to comment over there and quantify why the RFA process "aint broke."
528:
proved a metric then? Give us something, anything, that we can measure its sucess or failure by other than our collective subjective feeling that it's not perfect. Otherwise, you're throwing up an argument that's irrefutable. And, by the way, even a totally random change
1596:
actions are made in the best of faith. Even when I've disagreed with his actions, I've never doubted that he was attempting to improve Knowledge. I'd probably have to question an admin's judgement if they decided that blocking Jimbo was the best way to handle a situation.
672:
I think you need to take the analysis back at least to the start of 2005. It also might be interesting to look at the number of RfAs running at any one time. More concurrent RfAs may equal less attention to the merits of any particular RfA equals "rubber stamp." --
837:
I dislike it. We shouldn't sacrifice clarity for politcorrectness. And one guy writing 500 word "comment against" shouldn't cancel out 20 good-faith contributors saying that that nominee is a good guy. No need to turn a formal procedure into writing contest.
1166:
big deal" but giving it out to every person doesn't help. Also, I don't think that anyone "bad" was promoted but just way to early. It's better for users to wait until they are clear of the Knowledge policies before they are handed the mop and bucket. ā
767:(or something like that... could be "Comments for" and "Comments against", just something other than what we use now). I think this would facilitate and generate a better discussion, and cut down on people's cries about strict vote counting. Thoughts? --
1510:
by ArbCom and Jimbo, policy is meaningless. What matters is common sense and tradition. The problem isn't people knowing policy or not. The problem is rogue admins willfully ignoring process and policy, and being supported by ArbCom in doing so. --
1644:
Popups-assisted reverts are considerably slower and server-intensive compared to the one-click function enabled for admins; I still maintain that reversion is a tool, not a power, though, so my objection is technical, not substantive. --
1331:
Agreed. A number of charges have been laid at the feet of RfA with little or no substantiating evidence that RfA is the source of a problem. I'm not saying there isn't a problem; just saying nobody has provided evidence that there is.
851:
Why would one person cancel out twenty? Don't you think the BCrats could see that there was only one person against promotion? It's not based on the number of words written, it would just make things less like a "vote" and more like a
140:
The goal: By the end of this week, I would like to see a rough draft of a modified RFA system. If the community agrees, we will take the new RFA out for a test drive, and then let the community decide on whether or not to keep it.
617:
S O N S+O+N 38 15 5 58 69 18 12 99 21 3 1 25 28 1 1 30 48 4 2 54 26 3 6 35 41 2 1 44 92 0 0 92 50 1 1 52 31 19 1 51 Mean Median SD 54 51.5 24.4
1543:
become a crime? Jimbo himself is very clear that in matters that do not involve his personal capacity of WP chief, he is same as any other user. He can unblock himself like any admin can; but my guess is that he
1978:
The error was brought about in two steps, as these thigs often do. One Bcrat was "fixing up" the instructions to promote on the Bcrat page. In so doing, he erroneously stated the usual area of discretion was
631:
to small a sample, and a biased one if I understand you correctly. People are pretty loathe to come right out and say "Foo should never have been made an admin because of this and this and this," for good
1386:
only put forward nominees because they have shown commitment to actually showing an effort to understand policy; we're getting more rogue admins and I wonder how much part this has had to play.
390:
Admins do not spring fully-formed from RFA, nor descend in perfumed clouds on the back of a swan. We all have to learn, and the best way to do that is by doing. But I would much rather admins
438:
see comments that indicate they should never have been given the mop. Responses to "Did you check the history before you speedy deleted this?" like "Oh, am I meant to?" no longer suprise me.
110:
That's right: homework. If people want the process changed, then I suggest less talk and more action. Your mission, should you prove your insanity^W^W^Wchoose to accept it, is the following:
743:
I know there is talk about drastically changing RfA (whether needed or not remains to be seen), but what about a simple slight modification? What about instead of labeling the sections
576:
I'd be really interested in a link to the analysis that shows that we're not getting more participation on RfA. I also notice that you're not providing a counterexample to tell us how
1464:
strictly necessary, not with popup-assisted reversions now available. I would agree with you that a good vandal fighter doesn't necessarily mean a good admin, and we've been getting a
1446:
I agree, TenOfAllTrades, but I believe the point NSLE is trying to elaborate (or rather bring to the table) is that administratrs are being selected for all the wrong reasons. A admin
1237:
Although I have never supported someone who has not been here 3 months or above, I feel that this is a personal opinion, and thus should not be an official policy fo Knowledge.
1057:
If you're discussing a vote in the support or oppose section directly under the vote, remember to put # before any colons (:) you use so as not to break the numbering. Thanks,--
1432:
are seldom wet-behind-the-ears newly-raised raw-recruited admins; usually they have months or (often) years of experience, many thousands of edits, and insufferable smugness.
1656:
624:
And noting that these are in order from newest to oldest so the bottom half aren't going to change much but the top half may, I'd think that the distribution isn't that good.
1754:
347:
rather nastily (by what I think was a former "enemy"), but reformed within days. The question would be, could this controversy have been avoided if RFA had been different.
265:
long as what comes out is not radically changed (Jimbo appoints admins, bureaucrats start rolling dice and promoting by UserID), there should be no legitimacy problems. --
449:
in that sample, and how much time (eg. votes) do they spend on RfA? If the people who spend a lot of time on RfA think there is a problem, then there might be a problem.
276:
1506:
97:
89:
84:
72:
67:
59:
1743:
longer period of time has had more time to, potentially, read policy/guideline pages, research sources offsite, etc. It's unquantifiable, but that'd be my guess. --
682:
Perhaps. As for going back to the beginning of 2005, the data exists but I haven't collected it. That's a lot of work. I've been intending to get to it some day. --
1025:
Going forth, I just want everyone to remember civility. I'm not going to link it, because I trust everyone commenting here has read that guideline. 8^) Thanks. --
2436:
I ain't gonna be the one who ends it... but the next person might. This is one of the oddest things I think I've seen on WP. Sooo weird. Why are we doing this? --
2289:
557:
against change. I am against random change, especially when the RfA system seems to be doing a pretty darned good job of filtering just as it is right now. --
1825:
Getting slow, are we, Maru???Ā ;-) I already provided a user who is pushing 9000 edits this month alone. And he still has a week to increase his number. --
1569:(edit conflict) Re: blocking Jimbo, can't I make a joke without it being taken seriously and being jumped on?Ā ;-) How about I change it to deleting the
2073:
I think there was still a consensus to promote in this case due to the 77% support and the only reason anyone could give to oppose was agecountitis.
581:
something. And since you appear to want examples, let's start by comparing the numbers for a member of the CVU recently promoted to say, Splash. -
2342:
869:"politcorrectness"? I am not sure what I think about any of these RfA reform ideas, but I am absolutely sure that people should not be using
2168:
He's really a great user, just that people oppose due to the short time he spent here. Let's respect his decision and don't go against it. --
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for adminship, because it looks like he's a really excellent user. But his first RfA closed only a week ago. How much longer should I wait?
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admins in total? Further, is the problem one of new admins, or old admins who can do no wrong? The names I see attached to controversy on
2104:
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admin wants to avoid the policy discussions and limit himself to rolling back vandalism and blocking vandals, I see no problem with that.
701:
Please take a look at this straw poll (emphatically not a policy proposal) to gauge community opinion on several admin-related matters.
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Cause... It's the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people started typing it, not knowing what it was...
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in any case; personally, I've seen little or no correlation between being promoted fairly early and taking poor administrative actions.
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One person writing a clear and persuasive 500 word essay should cancel out 20 people who are all just blindly going <aol: -->
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Four months is my "bright line", however interwiki years count as well, although I do expect at least a two months at English.
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I like it. Then again, I like *anything* that is different than the current system. Discuss and debate, discuss and debate.
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Certainly. Even if it is working well at the moment, there is no reason why we shouldn't be trying to improve the process.
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What's the problem? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I agree with Splash as well (I didn't notice his response at first).
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policy discussion). If all a person deals with is vandals and AFD, I don't see where the problem is. Why does a person
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Use the talk page, come up with different ideas. I want to see that page filled with suggestions and your thoughts.
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Has Luigi30 done something to show he deserves his powers to be removed? If not, does it really matter now? --
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I think that we're discussing the fact that if we stop voting, the terrorists win. But that's just a guess.
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I take that you never participiated in VfD discussions. The one who has the most to say is most often wrong.
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as a metric: how many people are saying the system needs improvement, what's the ratio or Bcats to admins to
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Agree with 3 or even four months for personal standard. Strongly opposed to making this an official rule.
2218:, but I really must draw the line at man-eating clowns. No sir, no man-eating clowns will get my vote.
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If you wait too long, the clown may already have eaten him. But you could always nominate the clown. --
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Thier contribution's can not all (meaning about 90%) be reverts of vandalism which can be checked using
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do nothing, and would not be permenant. What's the harm in trying, it's not like lives are at stake. -
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where the issue of 'rogue' admins comes up. Is our judgement at RFA becoming worse, or are there just
1134:, in my opinion. Also, "This should be no big deal." (By the way, adminship standards have been on the
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They must have a clear knowledge of Knowledge policy before they can nominate themselves/be nominated.
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301:". Come on...evidence...prove it's broken! Then, show how the "reform" will fix what is broken. --
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Well, I don't know if it was warranted or not, but Jimbo was blocked for a token 1 second by
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talk, not less. Plus there's the fact that RfA is not broken and does not need fixing. -
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The nominee must have been here for, at the minimum, 3 months to have a nomination.
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administrator. After all, rollback is not mandatory regarding the removal of it. -
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nessecary, that there be a guideline to when a RFA can be put up. Something like:
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until username is chosen that doesn't elicit terrifying childhood recollections.
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Prisoners Of War have human rights, so let's call them "unlawful combatants". =)
2371:
I just wanted to say that this thread is starting to look fairly symmetrical. --
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Where the political correctness thing came into play, I have no idea. I'm lost.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Ya, like YOUR username is normal, Voldy... (just doing my bit for symmetry) ++
371:"I've used up my three reverts", implying a clear misunderstanding of the 3RR.
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Why raise standards at this point??? Are there bad users being promoted??? --
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is "no big thing" but passing it out like candy isn't acceptible either. ā
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The nominee must have, at the minimum, 2,000 edits to to have a nomination.
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I honestly think the name is hilarious. My personal favorite, however, is
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The nominee must not have a recent "record". Meaning, they can't have any
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I think it's time to make a point about this. Many recent nominations (
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articles that I work on. Which in fact, I'll shall work on right now. -
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I don't even read the headers, I just go on autopilot at that point ā
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of users - this is what makes people believe that we form a cabal. --
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Yeah, terrorists are evil, so let's call them "freedom fighters".
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Its not "broken" per se', just needs a serious overhall, like the
1921:
Even if he hasn't, I'd like to know exactly what error was made.
2405:
How about stopping this thread when we reach the left border? -
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topic or conflict they were around and then put up their RFA. ā
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test-drive will be questioned. There is good reason for wanting
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Well, it seems nobody finds the name offensive then. Good. --
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Here's a graph showing average # of votes per RfA over time:
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I'd like to see a user that makes 5000 edits in one month. -
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That was my point in the exaggerated example I gave above.
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if they were unsure rather than just blundering about. --
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Different ways of doing RFA; no idea is too stupid (just
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CSCWEM has asked to postpone any renom until April. See
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Good vandal fighter not necessarily = good administrator
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bringing this back up, but what EXACTLY was this error
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as serious a crime as, say, wheel warring or blocking
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is familiar with all Knowledge policy. Have a look at
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Not really sure. I would argue that the admin tools
755:, what if we changed the standard template to read,
430:While I understand that we don't expect them to be
284:I'd like to suggest that comments be moved to the
656:that's part of the problem. These problem admins
2146:Yes, let's honor that...it is simply too soon.--
235:Speaking as a bureaucrat, I think it's broken.
8:
2271:When you're down here, you'll float too...
908:Was this to me or JKelly? I'm confused. --
124:What is not-so-good about the existing RFA
1096:Interiot's Contribution tree edit counter
627:Also, your drill down to 98% is based on
2098:
983:. That's exactly how it should be.Ā :-)
1947:if the mistake is made in the future.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2229:We can't let the clowns go hungry! --
1279:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1038:My apologies if I came off snippyĀ :(
479:Did Aaron just call most Wikipedians
18:Knowledge talk:Requests for adminship
7:
2306:All usernames taken from 5-year-old
2105:User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me
696:Knowledge:Admin accountability poll
300:Polly wanna cracker! <brawk: -->
121:What is good about the existing RFA
1987:. The low number should have been
1277:possibility of double standards.--
877:against the idea of making things
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118:with the following guidelines:
2284:We do have a user account for
2099:Can't sleep, clown will eat me
1842:was going to take the dare. --
1:
1853:18:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
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1067:The lowering of RFA standards
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2310:T-shirts (I keed, I keed) --
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2000:Thanks for clearing it up.
1873:Sorry to bring this back up
2472:
2323:Can't Think of a Good Name
761:Comments against promotion
2421:We are getting closer. --
725:Everybody, please notice
116:User:Linuxbeak/RFA Reform
106:Homework for RFA regulars
1539:Since when has blocking
1201:to have admin tools. ā
739:Question about "voting"
2216:sysops that eat babies
1633:Category:Living people
757:Comments for promotion
174:Good idea, will do! ā
2103:I want to renominate
1420:I'd be careful about
1130:That's anti-wiki and
982:me too! </aol: -->
871:political correctness
599:Image:VotesPerRfA.png
129:don't break this rule
42:of past discussions.
1527:'s statement above:
1422:begging the question
1413:a prospective admin.
883:more of a discussion
2202:I know we tolerate
1132:m:instruction creep
2155:Wait one month. --
1838:Hey- I never said
1320:Christopher Parham
1084:recorded in thier
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2208:homocidal canines
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48:current talk page
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727:this discussion
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1434:TenOfAllTrades
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1040:Rx StrangeLove
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995:Rx StrangeLove
979:
978:
977:
976:
975:
974:
973:
972:
971:
970:
969:
968:
967:
966:
879:less of a vote
867:
834:
833:
828:Rx StrangeLove
822:
821:
820:
819:
740:
737:
722:
719:
698:
693:
692:
691:
690:
689:
670:
669:
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650:
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633:
625:
616:
615:
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612:
573:
570:
569:
568:
567:
566:
565:
564:
533:improve it or
522:
517:Rx StrangeLove
501:
500:
499:
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494:
470:
469:
468:
467:
466:
465:
464:
463:
450:
439:
428:
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368:
367:
366:
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364:
339:Rx StrangeLove
334:
313:Rx StrangeLove
282:
281:
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270:
262:
261:
260:
219:
218:
198:
171:
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168:
135:
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125:
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107:
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95:
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52:
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34:
23:
15:
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2:
2468:
2455:
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2400:
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2270:
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2240:
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2209:
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2176:
2171:
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2165:
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2149:
2145:
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2118:
2106:
2084:
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2017:
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1986:
1982:
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1968:
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1929:
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1899:
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1658:
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1648:
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1599:
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1576:
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1564:
1561:
1556:
1555:
1554:
1551:
1546:
1542:
1538:
1536:
1535:
1534:from editing.
1533:
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1516:
1513:
1508:
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1493:
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1399:
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1222:
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1217:
1212:
1199:
1198:
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1187:
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1177:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1159:
1157:
1151:
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1137:
1133:
1129:
1128:
1127:
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1123:
1118:
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1097:
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1023:
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986:
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944:
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929:
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921:
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918:
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788:
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772:
766:
762:
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750:
746:
738:
736:
735:
732:
728:
721:Please notice
720:
718:
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714:
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155:
151:
147:
142:
138:
130:
126:
123:
120:
119:
117:
113:
112:
111:
105:
99:
96:
93:
91:
88:
86:
83:
80:
76:
74:
71:
69:
66:
63:
61:
58:
57:
49:
45:
41:
40:
35:
28:
27:
19:
2424:
2346:
2303:
2259:
2242:
2232:
2158:
2102:
1988:
1984:
1980:
1975:
1879:
1876:
1839:
1747:
1671:
1649:
1612:
1586:
1578:
1529:
1528:
1525:Deathphoenix
1502:
1487:
1479:
1465:
1461:
1447:
1425:
1380:
1365:
1316:
1275:
1247:
1135:
1105:
1070:
1056:
1005:
980:
897:
853:
841:
764:
760:
756:
752:
748:
744:
742:
724:
700:
657:
628:
577:
575:
554:
534:
530:
525:
442:
435:
391:
283:
269:
225:
206:
202:
161:(le' ZIP!) -
143:
139:
136:
109:
78:
43:
37:
2425:a.n.o.n.y.m
2233:a.n.o.n.y.m
2204:evil aliens
2159:a.n.o.n.y.m
985:Kim Bruning
926:(drop me a
785:(drop me a
489:Jonathunder
239:(drop me a
148:(drop me a
144:Good luck.
36:This is an
2407:Liberatore
2273:TigerShark
2260:they float
1769:User:RexNL
1637:Gurubrahma
1550:Gurubrahma
1140:BorgHunter
854:discussion
524:How about
407:strongly.
98:ArchiveĀ 50
90:ArchiveĀ 48
85:ArchiveĀ 47
79:ArchiveĀ 46
73:ArchiveĀ 45
68:ArchiveĀ 44
60:ArchiveĀ 40
2333:Hurricane
2308:Hot Topic
2214:and even
2134:Sjakkalle
1598:Carbonite
1571:Main page
1544:wouldn't.
1356:Raven4x4x
1342:broken. -
1086:block log
924:Linuxbeak
783:Linuxbeak
637:brenneman
584:brenneman
540:brenneman
453:brenneman
237:Linuxbeak
203:car wreck
146:Linuxbeak
2290:no edits
2264:Cecropia
2247:Marskell
2195:Cecropia
2138:(Check!)
2077:Jtkiefer
1993:Cecropia
1850:contribs
1818:Contribs
1774:.Ā :-) --
1745:nae'blis
1647:nae'blis
1613:Katefan0
1239:Olorin28
1053:Reminder
875:bogeyman
675:Cecropia
661:made. --
481:Morlocks
447:Morlocks
434:, but I
291:Avriette
267:nae'blis
251:Mega Man
2348:archive
2312:W.marsh
2294:gadfium
2256:balloon
2045:tomf688
1976:Answer:
1587:phoenix
1488:phoenix
1430:WP:AN/I
1059:Alhutch
753:Neutral
745:Support
632:reason.
39:archive
2362:Ec5618
2304:Oppose
2243:Oppose
1949:JHMM13
1847:(talk)
1815:(talk)
1750:(talk)
1716:JHMM13
1706:Taxman
1677:JHMM13
1652:(talk)
1503:Nobody
1462:aren't
1448:should
1383:my own
1369:Taxman
1344:Splash
1323:(talk)
1191:Splash
1082:blocks
938:Jkelly
887:Jkelly
813:(Talk)
763:, and
751:, and
749:Oppose
706:adiant
658:should
412:adiant
399:(Talk)
376:adiant
352:adiant
272:(talk)
211:Splash
192:(Talk)
2325:. --
2262:. --
2181:e Ong
2148:MONGO
2081:----
1560:Durin
1541:Jimbo
1532:Jimbo
1523:From
1512:Durin
1471:Jimbo
1334:Durin
1250:Voice
1006:Grue
898:Grue
873:as a
842:Grue
798:Ilyan
731:Redux
712:|<
711:: -->
684:Durin
663:Durin
603:Durin
559:Durin
535:might
531:might
507:Durin
436:often
418:|<
417:: -->
396:ALoan
392:asked
382:|<
381:: -->
358:|<
357:: -->
323:Durin
303:Durin
226:Grue
177:Ilyan
114:Edit
16:<
2338:ERIC
2185:ęååč“¢
2121:Talk
1844:maru
1812:maru
1772:tool
1761:Zero
1672:have
1635:. --
1602:Talk
1573:? --
1507:this
1453:Zero
1438:talk
1426:more
1229:talk
1144:talk
1138:.) ā
1136:rise
960:Talk
928:line
881:and
856:. --
787:line
611:now:
578:good
485:Eloi
443:this
255:Zero
241:line
207:more
163:Zero
150:line
2388:Lar
2170:Ter
2002:NSL
1989:75%
1985:80%
1983:to
1981:70%
1923:NSL
1884:NSL
1619:mrp
1583:ath
1484:ath
1466:lot
1388:NSL
1256:All
1253:of
885:.
629:way
555:not
526:you
2439:LV
2413:)
2390::
2374:LV
2292:.-
2286:It
2210:,
2206:,
2187:)
2178:nc
2132:.
2119:|
2042:--
1959:)
1955:|
1911:LV
1882:?
1828:LV
1810:--
1777:LV
1726:)
1722:|
1687:)
1683:|
1600:|
1440:)
1332:--
1231:)
1155:LV
1146:)
1028:LV
958:|
930:)
911:LV
859:LV
789:)
770:LV
759:,
747:,
487:?
243:)
152:)
94:ā
64:ā
2411:T
2409:(
2396:c
2394:/
2392:t
2343:Ā§
2328:Ā§
2183:(
2174:e
2116:P
2113:I
2110:J
2018:)
2016:C
2014:+
2012:T
2010:(
2006:E
1957:C
1953:T
1951:(
1939:)
1937:C
1935:+
1933:T
1931:(
1927:E
1900:)
1898:C
1896:+
1894:T
1892:(
1888:E
1840:I
1724:C
1720:T
1718:(
1685:C
1681:T
1679:(
1616:/
1579:e
1575:D
1480:e
1476:D
1436:(
1404:)
1402:C
1400:+
1398:T
1396:(
1392:E
1351:`
1306:Īµ
1301:e
1298:o
1295:M
1227:(
1215:Īµ
1210:e
1207:o
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1189:-
1180:Īµ
1175:e
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1169:M
1142:(
1121:Īµ
1116:e
1113:o
1110:M
1098:.
955:P
952:I
949:J
808:p
803:e
709:_
703:R
415:_
409:R
379:_
373:R
355:_
349:R
187:p
182:e
131:)
50:.
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