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for the same cause, although a different instance. That block did not lead to this RfAr, though it the action which caused it was one more straw on the camel's back. Alienus's possible future actions are pure speculation. Who know's if he'd have abided by the outome of an RfC. We do know he didn't heed warnings. And we know that he's chosen to leave the project, at least for the moment, rather than abide by the ArbCom's judgement, even though he doesn't know what it will be. Those actions, and his own comments, are strong indicators of his willingness to take guidance. I don't know whether this RfAr will proceed in his absence, but he's welcome to return at any time to respond to claims about his behavior, just as he could in an RfC. -
167:, no apparent RfC, and so on. While an RfC is a typical process, it is not a requirement before going to arbitration. The aim of arbitration, and of all the dispute resolution procedures, is to improve the editing of this encyclopedia. It is well-within the authority of the ArbCom to take cases with or without previous RfCs or mediations, and it is not uncommon for them to do so.
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input in support of him. So
Alienus and his endorsers treated it as a legitimate RfC. Let's look at how Alienus responds to serious, detailed analysis of his incivility: He ignores it. Instead of explaining, defending, or denying that he'd made personal attacks he makes fresh attacks on the instigators. He relies on
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The crux of your argument appears to be based on prescient knowledge: Alienus would have refused to abide by the unknown outcome of an RfC that never occured. Al did protest the 3 day block you gave him for referring to someone as an "edit warrior"... a block that another admin eventually overturned.
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You raise several points. Let me try to respond to all of them. If you re-read the text that you posted above, it does not say that an RfC is a requirement before requesting arbitration. It only says the Arbcom is likely to refuse cases that haven't had an RfC. Arbitration is not necessarily the last
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Shouln't there be a discussion and consensus before a perm community ban is effected? Also, should we not consider the merits of his edits, even if they are from illegal puppets? We don't really hunt down puppets of others unless they they are doing something very bad like vandalism, etc. Al's edits
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unfair? Perhaps some community input would have helped clarify things. It seems your argument is that
Alienus should have submissivly agreed to whatever accusations you or his opponents made against him. Since he did not, he is automatically assumed to be in the wrong. This suggests an infallibility
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and related rules. Yet he's made little change. For all of those reasons I think that an RfC would not result in an alteration to
Alienus's behavior. If you have evidence that he listens to criticism and acts upon it, or admits mistakes, then that would be significant. But I see no reason to have an
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I am certainly willing to admit mistakes, and have done so on many occasions. In this instance, some folks agreed with the block and some disagreed. Blocks are not based on popularity, but even so we had a thorough discussion about it at AN/I. The admin who removed my block replaced it with his own
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That is the same pattern he has shown before and since. When I warned him against making further personal attacks he just deleted my posting. When I blocked for making further personal attacks he complained that it was unfair. He's shown no greater interest in the input of others. The purpose of an
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Based on his reaction to the RfC it does not appear that
Alienus realized it was a draft. On the contrary, he complains that he was not notified of it. He posted a 784-word response, made in three installments. Despite its being a draft, a number of editors somehow managed to find it and give their
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A draft RfC in the Talk space of a user with whom
Alienus has had significant differences of opinion regarding article content is not a acceptable substitute for a legitimate RfC. In my opinion it would be very disturbing if Jake's draft RfC has influenced the decision to bypass a legitimate RfC.
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If it emerges that
Alienus has decided to stop editing Knowledge (XXG), the arbitration case can be shelved. If he changes his mind in the future then it can be resumed on his return. On the other hand part of the case concerns alleged corruption or incompetence on the part of administrators, so
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This RfA was not just about
Alienus, but also about the allegations that he was being treated unfairly by certain admins. Considering Al's editing habits had actually been improving and not deteriorating, and considering the number of recent questionable blocks, the fact that an RfC was skipped in
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Will, you suggest Al did not realize the RfC was a draft. Do you think he didn't notice that it was on someones user page? Have you considered that maybe he thought it was just good manners that he be notified? Use your imagination. What you are arguing above sounds like some desperate attempt to
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Banned editors are banned, period. We don't analyze the quality of their edits, particularly when they edit in exactly the same way that got them in trouble in the first place. If
Alienus were to edit quietly then no-one would notice him; instead, he continues to engage in the same problematic
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you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the
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are good and helping WP. If Al was given a year he would be welcomed back after "time served," but there is no reason to bother with his puppets if they are not doing anything terrible to WP, and esp. not use that as an excuse to arbitrarily issue a community ban to Al.
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RfC is to give a user input on his actions from the community so that he can be made aware of problems. Many users have come to
Alienus's talk page to make him aware of their concerns, and he's even been blocked repeatedly for violating
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Alienus is using his sockpuppets to attack other editors personally and generally degrade the quality of
Knowledge (XXG) articles. While some of his edits are legitimate, a block is a block.
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behavior that got him banned in the first place. Evading bans, and disrupting while doing so, are clear grounds for a permanent community ban.
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to as a blanket justificaitn for "all of actions". At no point does he show any appreciation for the concerns raised about his behavior.
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RfC just for its own sake. No one wants Alienus to stop editing, we just want him to stop making personal attacks and edit warring. -
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stage in a linear progression. There have been numerous cases where there no previous applicable RfC. In recent cases, for example,
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That would only reinforce the perception that there was a rush to judgment and that Alienus has not been treated fairly. --
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I note that arbitration had already been accepted before Will brought the above mentioned RfC to attention.
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For Knowledge (XXG) to be successful, editors need to feel that they will be treated fairly.
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it's possible that the case could continue and examine that allegation in detail.. --
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legitimize a draft RfC put together by his opponents during a content dispute.
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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Raphael1/Proposed decision
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undermines the perception that editors will be treated fairly. --
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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Francis Schuckardt
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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Saladin1970 appeal
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this particular case makes it all the more troubling.
155:, I see that the named "defendant" never had an RfC;
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Alienus participated in an RfC on his behavior here:
153:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Infinity0
113:. On which page would you like to disucss this? -
43:. Before requesting arbitration, please review
18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Requests for arbitration
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109:This is a duplicate of a thread also at
60:phase of the dispute resolution process
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210:Has it occured to you that maybe it
27:Where was the request for comment?
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294:23:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
280:19:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
56:In my opinion bypassing the
270:22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
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248:12:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
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118:01:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
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83:23:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
69:20:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
134:Here would be fine. --
37:request for arbitration
76:User:Jakew/Alienus RFC
50:Arbitration Committee
39:is the last step of
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41:dispute resolution
111:user talk:Alienus
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35:A
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