Knowledge (XXG)

talk:Requests for arbitration/SemBubenny/Proposed decision - Knowledge (XXG)

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that I've notified my fellow arbitrators about my late activity on this case, it was my decision alone to do this and any criticism of this should be directed at me alone. At the root of this is that I managed, in the RFAR statement, to confuse content and behaviour issues, and incorrectly stated a need to recuse on a specific issue. The reasoning I used at the time was that I took a strong stance on the content issue raised at the ANI thread (the one linked to from my RFAR statement), and I thought that this warranted recusal. It turns out, however, that the findings of fact about SemBubenny's behaviour related to those articles quite correctly say nothing about the relative merits of the content, so I could quite easily have voted on them without worrying that my earlier stance on the content was prejudicing my voting (all arbitrators should be able to do this, unless they are deeply involved, as I've said I would be for Tolkien-related articles, for example). However, this would require changing things again, and I think this one change was quite enough, and my abstaining on those findings of fact won't make any difference to the ruling. For the record, my RFAR statement (which pointed out ways SemBubenny should have handled these articles, mostly using PROD and AfD) clearly shows that I would have supported findings of fact 3 and 4 if I hadn't made things complicated by throwing the recusal word around too lightly (I've learnt a big lesson there). In short: I shouldn't have used that recusal word; I realised very late that I'd made a mistake; and rather than say nothing I decided to try and correct that mistake. So in essence, I support findings of fact 1, 3 and 4 (and have reservations about 2), but abstained on 3 and 4 on a technicality. Once I accepted that to my own satisfaction, I felt comfortable voting on the remedies. I do hope that was a sufficiently clear explanation. I can't emphasise enough the lessons I've learnt here, about content issues versus behaviour issues, and when recusal is warranted or not. I will be happy to discuss this further, but don't want proceedings to be distracted too much, as the critical issue now is deciding on which remedy gets enacted (or whether an alternative proposal will gain more support among the committee as a whole).
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the case to do with the phobias issue. It is obviously too late to change the case acceptance (and it would likely have been accepted anyway), but I cannot in all conscience stand by on the non-phobias-related issues being decided here, so I am moving myself to active on this case. I should have clarified all this with the case clerk at the point when the case opened. This was a mistake on my part, and I don't intend to make this mistake again. In future, when I may need to abstain on parts (but not all of a case), I will note this at the RFAR and avoid conditional recusals that will only confuse matters. I have examined my recusals on other cases, and those still stand. I have notified my fellow arbitrators of this decision, and I will notify the case clerk and the parties to the case, and will add a note to the original record of the RFAR in these case pages.
310:(including remedy 1). Do you envisage yourself supporting or opposing remedies while not taking any position on the findings of fact that underlie those remedies? Or do you just plan only to support remedies that you think are justified by the findings of fact that you have voted on (which I think at present would be no remedies at all - you abstained on all actionable findings, correct)? Apologies for being so inquisitive, I'm just a little bemused as to where you could be going with this. Perhaps you're considering proposing new findings that would give rise to additional remedies unrelated to the other matters? 289:"Recuse on the phobias issue - took part in ANI thread on the phobias, and gave SemBubenny (Mikkalai at the time) advice on his talk page. Additionally, don't think deletion of phobia articles out of process needs to be dealt with by ArbCom (AfD and DRV should handle content issues like that). If the deletions get regularly overturned, then that would be a problem. Will check back here to see if SemBubenny makes a statement. Carcharoth (talk) 12:07, 26 January 2009 (UTC)" 689:
some newly established standard) are the correct way to handle the articles. The crux all along has been whether SemBubenny can change the way he approaches such articles (he has said he can), what to do if he doesn't (and what should be done because he didn't in the past), and what general lessons other admins and editors can learn from this.
426:. 16 of you isn't such a great number as that! It also looks bad if this is what happens here, and then elsewhere the Committee makes righteous resolutions urging what it's failing to attempt here. :) SemBubenny might get desyssoped permanently with no consensus here. Surely there can be some more gravitation to a middle line than this? No? 166:." (Emphasis added.) There are prior instances in which the Committee has agreed to re-confer adminship on an administrator after concerns that had previously led to revocation of adminship had been addressed and some time had elapsed. I cannot, of course, predict whether such an appeal might be sustained in this instance, but FYI FWIW. 688:
needs to come up with a community-discussed standard for specific phobias. See Ilmari Karonen's suggestion at the end of that debate. As far as behaviour related to specific phobias by admins (or any editor), I think it is safe to say that speedy deletions are not correct, and that PRODs or AfDs (or
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Not really. Once four net votes to close have been obtained, at that point a 24-hour clock starts to tick, but if an arbitrator turns up and opposes the close, the clock resets to zero until net four to close is obtained again. That's my understanding of it, anyway. BTW, what are the (x/y) bits for?
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So, unless I'm missing something in the clerk closure formulae, all four remedies could end up with the same result, while it is not clear how the math on first, second, etc, votes can be counted. Why on earth would it be closed at this stage? Cool Hand Luke is right. You guys should recall your old
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Despite the legitimate concerns that have been raised, I oppose desysopping SemBubenny at this stage. That being said, the desysopping remedy that may pass provides, "SemBubenny's administrative privileges are revoked. He may apply to have them reinstated at any time, either through the usual means
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Thanks for pointing this out. I agree with what you are saying here, and possibly the right thing to do here is to propose a new finding of fact based on those diffs instead, but that is unlikely to make a substantial difference at this stage. One thing I did notice, when following one of the diffs
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Yes, only 1.1 passes with the abstains lower the majority to 8 on it. The rest do not have enough votes to pass. Often the more options that are added the less clear the voting is because the votes are split between the alternatives. Since the result remains the same now as before the alternatives
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That recusal was conditional on the case scope remaining restricted to the phobias issue. In retrospect, that was a mistake, as it should have been obvious the scope would be wider than that. What I should have done was declined the case and stated that if accepted I would abstain on any aspects of
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Here we get the break Flo feels is necessary, while NYB's harshness concern may also be addressed. This needn't prohibit btw the imposition of any resysopping restrictions/conditions, if a motion to that effect is more likely to gain arbitrator support. The wording in the current desysopping motion
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thing, you know. "Knowledge (XXG) Community" will not see any change: it sees me only when I occasionally piss somebody off. Once I attended a wikipedia meetup I felt extremely humiliated when I was recognized only "You are #6 in edit count or something, aren't you?". The guy thought he is praising
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I wrote a long reply that got lost when my computer crashed (well, the wireless card went doolally). Anyway, to cut a long story short (but still start at the beginning), my initial RFAR statement was the wrong approach entirely. Before I explain that, I should make clear that though I noted above
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Would FloNight and the other arbitrators consider a 6 month desysop for Mikka? Or at least consider a proposal where the ArbCom retains the power to resysop? He is very very experienced admin and, though admittedly a bit rough around the edges, irreplacable in some of the areas he works. He has no
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Okay, it seems you did vote on the remedies on the existing findings. How can that be reconciled with "abstain on any aspects of the case to do with the phobias issue"? Did you just disregard the core issues and find that most of the proposed remedies were too harsh in relation to what was left?
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Doesn't that create rather an odd situation? You've abstained on most of the findings of fact, but not (yet) on the remedies that are based on those findings of fact. You've abstained on enforcement of the remedies (though the enforcement only seems relevant to remedy 1) but not on the remedies
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I planned to take away my oppose vote to close but I'll wait for now to see if someone wants to add an alternative remedy. I think a break for the admin tools is best for all involved at this time. Personally, I would be willing to review the situation at a later time and reinstate the tools if
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Didn't know that actually, though it's still gonna be a nail-biter for him. x/y is, btw, votes cast/notional pool. I suppose it would be simpler to do majority (e.g. 8 and 9 rather than 14 and 16), but that's out of a habit I gained elsewhere and it also makes the numbers easier to crunch for
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I understand that my word that I have changed my wikipedians' attitudes may be unconvincing. As a further proof that I seriously intend no longer be a source of conflict hence disruption of wikipedia I am enlisting myself open to recall. - 7-bubёn
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you provided, is an earlier discussion that took place in a sequence that went: (1) speedy deletion of article; (2) Talk page discussion about deletion; (3) Article restoration; (4) AfD nomination; (5) Article deletion. The discussion was at
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Thanks. The two new versions look like they represent a better center of gravity for arbitrator opinion. The nothing versus all !voting that was going on before (1. versus 1.1) resembled a game of Russian roulette.
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chance of passing a future RfA however, and because of this permanently desysopping threatens a permanent loss. There is nothing after all to lose with keeping the matter within ArbCom discretion, surely?
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prejudices regranting ("usual means or"), and must do, otherwise it wouldn't be regarded as lighter than 6 months/other defined period of time (e.g. comments on the two options at
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don't adequately show the problem in my opinion. The two diffs there now only show his removal of content/archiving after I posted the arbitration notification (which as
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Right now, I think 1.1 is (barely) passing, while 1.0 and 1.2 are (barely) not passing, but I think we should talk this out to get a more convincing result. If
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SemBubenny wanted the tools back. Recently, several desysopped users regained their tools through RFA so I don't think that option should be ruled out either.
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One person changing their votes could change it all still. And as the needed one extra close vote could come down at any time, it definitely looks like
17: 684:, and does not seem to have been mentioned in the evidence in this case. I think what that shows is that, regardless of the outcome of this case, 462:
were added, I think the outcome is okay. I'd been more concerned if the was shift from one remedy barely passing to different one barely passing.
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SemBubenny is desysopped for a period of six months. After six months, his administrator access will be automatically restored.
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The problem with your suggestion is that I am "irreplaceable" in the areas where no one really cares. The
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See the proposed decision page, where a couple of alternative remedy proposals are now up for voting.
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voted now, I think he would be able to make any one of these three pass—it shouldn't be this close.
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Okay, I think I understand now and it makes sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
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Carcharoth, that is exactly correct. Also, I too am curious as to what those bits are for.
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I would open a community-wide discussion on phobia articles, but I am afraid to do so.
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I think (about the 02:30 update), remedy 1.2 is also passing due to the abstention?
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Knowledge (XXG):Requests_for_arbitration/Motion:_re_SlimVirgin#SlimVirgin_desysopped
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noted isn't a big deal) and a notice he had on his talkpage (which again, as
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That is correct. The notes have been updated to reflect that. Thank you,
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Actually, in this context, you can say "voting" instead of "!voting". :)
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as there has been a recent abstain vote making the majority 8 (which is
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discussion days on wiki talk pages and try to build some consensus, per
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A discussion at Wikiproject psychology would be the best place really.
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I see some are voting for closure. As it stands, the voting is:
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personal attacks during the ANI discussion about his deletions
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Well, of course you would in that situation... this is weird.
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I'm posting here to clarify the statement I made at the RFAR:
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blanking his talkpage during a discussion about his deletions
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and scroll down until you find the right list of arbitrators.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Pyrexiophobia
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uncivilly responding to queries about his deletions
652:noted, was a year ago). Better diffs would be 18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Requests for arbitration 8: 199:What about the motion re SlimVirgin remedy: 7: 147:me, but my reaction was to initiate 281:Clarification of statement at RFAR 28: 31:Arbitrators active on this case 1: 259:18:14, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 241:17:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 224:23:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 191:23:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 176:21:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 164:or by appeal to the Committee 157:20:54, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 137:20:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 480:the number of support votes) 474:Remedy 1 is now passing too 761: 741:02:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC) 713:01:13, 4 March 2009 (UTC) 699:01:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC) 674:03:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 631:23:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 598:03:09, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 581:02:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 570:02:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 555:02:42, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 514:02:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 503:02:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 489:01:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 470:21:44, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 457:21:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 438:20:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 386:00:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 364:00:20, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 343:19:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 320:19:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 304:16:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 273:02:21, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 424:WP:Consensus not numbers 109:To update this listing, 291: 287: 588:Deacon of Pndapetzim 545:Deacon of Pndapetzim 530:1.3 -- 6 8 0 (14/16) 527:1.2 -- 8 6 1 (15/14) 524:1.1 -- 7 6 2 (15/14) 428:Deacon of Pndapetzim 413:1.3 -- 6 6 0 (12/16) 410:1.2 -- 7 4 2 (11/14) 407:1.1 -- 8 5 2 (13/14) 249:Deacon of Pndapetzim 214:Deacon of Pndapetzim 127:Deacon of Pndapetzim 586:multiple purposes. 541:eastern Slavic kind 521:1. -- 9 5 1 (15/14) 404:1. -- 7 5 2 (12/14) 396:Voting for closure? 111:edit this template 595: 552: 445:User:Stephen Bain 435: 256: 221: 134: 115: 752: 672: 670: 669:User:Ameliorate! 591: 578: 548: 511: 486: 431: 346: 252: 217: 130: 107: 98:Away or inactive 760: 759: 755: 754: 753: 751: 750: 749: 668: 665: 638: 622: 576: 509: 484: 398: 336: 283: 144:Uncatchable Joe 122: 33: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 758: 756: 748: 747: 746: 745: 744: 743: 718: 717: 716: 715: 637: 634: 621: 620:Open to recall 618: 617: 616: 615: 614: 613: 612: 611: 610: 609: 608: 607: 606: 605: 604: 603: 602: 601: 600: 533: 532: 531: 528: 525: 522: 415: 414: 411: 408: 405: 397: 394: 393: 392: 391: 390: 389: 388: 369: 368: 367: 366: 348: 347: 341:comment added 323: 322: 282: 279: 278: 277: 276: 275: 229: 228: 227: 226: 205: 204: 203: 194: 193: 180: 179: 178: 121: 118: 117: 116: 103: 89: 88: 85: 82: 79: 76: 73: 70: 67: 64: 63:Kirill Lokshin 61: 58: 55: 52: 49: 48:Cool Hand Luke 46: 43: 32: 29: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 757: 742: 738: 735: 732: 728: 724: 723: 722: 721: 720: 719: 714: 710: 706: 702: 701: 700: 696: 692: 687: 683: 678: 677: 676: 675: 671: 663: 659: 655: 651: 647: 643: 640:The diffs in 635: 633: 632: 629: 619: 599: 594: 589: 584: 583: 582: 579: 573: 572: 571: 567: 563: 558: 557: 556: 551: 546: 542: 538: 534: 529: 526: 523: 520: 519: 517: 516: 515: 512: 506: 505: 504: 500: 496: 492: 491: 490: 487: 481: 479: 473: 472: 471: 468: 465: 460: 459: 458: 455: 454: 450: 446: 442: 441: 440: 439: 434: 429: 425: 421: 412: 409: 406: 403: 402: 401: 395: 387: 383: 379: 375: 374: 373: 372: 371: 370: 365: 361: 357: 352: 351: 350: 349: 344: 340: 334: 330: 325: 324: 321: 317: 313: 308: 307: 306: 305: 301: 297: 290: 286: 280: 274: 270: 266: 262: 261: 260: 255: 250: 245: 244: 243: 242: 238: 234: 225: 220: 215: 211: 206: 201: 200: 198: 197: 196: 195: 192: 189: 186: 181: 177: 173: 169: 165: 160: 159: 158: 155: 150: 145: 141: 140: 139: 138: 133: 128: 119: 114: 112: 106: 105: 104: 101: 99: 95: 93: 86: 83: 80: 78:Sam Blacketer 77: 74: 71: 68: 65: 62: 59: 56: 53: 50: 47: 44: 41: 40: 39: 37: 30: 23: 19: 733: 685: 639: 623: 518:It's now at 477: 475: 451: 416: 399: 378:87.254.80.49 329:87.254.80.49 312:87.254.80.49 292: 288: 284: 230: 163: 151:. - 7-bubёn 123: 108: 102: 97: 96: 91: 90: 81:Stephen Bain 75:Roger Davies 35: 34: 705:Newyorkbrad 543:). Erm ... 337:—Preceding 265:Newyorkbrad 233:Newyorkbrad 168:Newyorkbrad 66:Newyorkbrad 691:Carcharoth 650:Carcharoth 646:Carcharoth 562:Carcharoth 495:Carcharoth 356:Carcharoth 296:Carcharoth 120:Suggestion 42:Carcharoth 22:SemBubenny 449:Cool Hand 87:Wizardman 737:contribs 727:Casliber 577:Tiptoety 539:(of the 537:Roulette 510:Tiptoety 485:Tiptoety 464:FloNight 185:FloNight 84:Vassyana 57:FloNight 54:FayssalF 45:Casliber 20:‎ | 686:someone 478:exactly 420:WP:VOTE 339:undated 92:Recused 72:Rlevse 69:Risker 60:Jayvdb 36:Active 642:FoF 2 636:FoF 2 627:: --> 153:: --> 51:Coren 16:< 731:talk 709:talk 695:talk 660:and 593:Talk 566:talk 550:Talk 499:talk 453:Luke 433:Talk 422:and 382:talk 360:talk 333:talk 316:talk 300:talk 269:talk 254:Talk 237:talk 219:Talk 172:talk 149:this 132:Talk 467:♥♥♥ 335:) 188:♥♥♥ 739:) 711:) 697:) 666:~ 664:. 656:, 596:) 568:) 553:) 501:) 436:) 384:) 362:) 318:) 302:) 271:) 257:) 239:) 222:) 212:). 174:) 135:) 100:: 94:: 38:: 734:· 729:( 707:( 693:( 628:t 590:( 564:( 547:( 497:( 430:( 380:( 358:( 345:. 331:( 314:( 298:( 267:( 251:( 235:( 216:( 170:( 154:t 129:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG) talk:Requests for arbitration
SemBubenny
edit this template
Deacon of Pndapetzim
Talk
20:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Uncatchable Joe
this
>t
20:54, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Newyorkbrad
talk
21:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
FloNight
♥♥♥
23:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Knowledge (XXG):Requests_for_arbitration/Motion:_re_SlimVirgin#SlimVirgin_desysopped
Deacon of Pndapetzim
Talk
23:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Newyorkbrad
talk
17:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Deacon of Pndapetzim
Talk
18:14, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Newyorkbrad
talk
02:21, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Carcharoth

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