Knowledge

talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Archive/2020/Oct - Knowledge

Source ๐Ÿ“

3457:
should already know what happens to users who continue to ignore policy and guidelines. I'm doing the best I can, but participants are so divided amongst themselves, it's almost impossible to determine consensus. The only thing that was clear enough was the snowflake, but now someone doesn't like the equation or the snowflake itself. I didn't even make the snowflake, it was Walwal20. The green barnstar above, that's the first thing I introduced here. I used the image file from this project banner because a image file from the project banner is the best representation of the topic for which a WikiProject covers. Clearly I was wrong though, but what's even more clear, is the amount of rudeness I have received for my efforts.
5821:, Pinter, Artin) and they don't seem to use < and โ‰ค for subgroups, and shockingly, even some more modern references (Aluffi Chapter 0, the stacks project) appear not to use this notation. I find this quite bizarre, as I have found it to be quite common (it has appeared frequently in lectures and courses I have attended for example). Since it doesn't appear to be well represented, I suppose it could be removed from the < and โ‰ค parts, but I think one then should add it to the โŠ† โŠ‚ section separately to subset (as these references certainly do use set notation to indicate subgroups in this way). Perhaps one could even put a small note there that < and โ‰ค are sometimes used. 2982:
than a science, with guidelines that reflect that. We don't need specific guidelines telling us which file we must use as our base image - That's what community consensus is for. It seems like a few other users here prefer the original Koch Snowflake design, so I don't think it should be thrown out due to the fact that it uses the "wrong" image. Personally, I would be happy to support any of the barnstar designs suggested by David Eppstein - I think all of these designs would work better than a generic "math thing" superimposed on a clipart barnstar. Mathematics is unique and often beautiful, and I think a barnstar should reflect that.
1980:, which makes it seem like a he-said-she-said situation. Just to summarise for those unfamiliar, the substance of the argument is essentially that Tian put up a paper just days after CDS's paper with several key arguments essentially exactly the same as in CDS, and immediately claimed credit for the proof. The Veblen prize in mathematics was awarded to CDS for their proof, with no reference to Tian, and (and I can only speak informally on this rather than provide written sources) the community outside of Tian's inner circle is fairly decided that the credit goes to CDS. 3510:, which is progress. Also, sorry for the rudeness of our fellow mathematicians. I believe it is all a misunderstanding though, because most people supported the snowflake-only barnstar, not the one with the equation. I took the liberty of making all the changes to reflect this "better" consensus. It has the support of David Eppstein, Deacon Vorbis, AviationFreak, MarkH21 and Trovatore. And since it is placed as a 1.0 (not a 2.0 one), I think Jerm is also fine with it not having 5 tips. Think we can settle with this, right? 2232: 3530: 2736: 40: 3169: 2201: 2636: 2665: 2562: 5735:, it is asserted that โ‰ค and < are "commonly used" for denoting respectively a subgroup and a proper subgroup. I am convinced that some authors used this notation, but I am not sure whether this is sufficiently common for being mentioned. I am unable to test this with a Scholar Google search. Does this meaning of the inequality symbols must be kept, or must it be removed per 1984:
himself supports). I don't think it is accurate to simply give equal credit to Tian and CDS without having a lengthy discussion of the controversy, but given the highly technical nature of the contension and the fact that the main rebuttal is from some of the authors themselves, it makes it a bit difficult to accurately and faithfully write up. Any input would be appreciated.
1771:, point 3 doesn't work for HTML either. I made a dummy edit to test it. Point 2 works for both cases, but it bothers that Latex cause illegible anchors (#Equal_or_unequal_sample_sizes,_similar_variances_%7F'"`UNIQ--postMath-00000009-QINU`"'%7F) whereas HTML yields a nicer one (#Equal_or_unequal_sample_sizes,_similar_variances_(1/2_<_sX1/sX2_<_2)). 4206:. To wit, no, the manual of style is the community's, not this WikiProject's. (It happens to be the case that editors of this WikiProject are the most likely to care about the guideline in question, but this set of editors is not the entire set of editors who care about the guideline, and accordingly do not get to control what that guideline says.) -- 4307:
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I interpreted that comment as applying to no-argument uses like "the radical symbol (โˆš) is..." but it sounds like you also mean to include with-argument expressions like "โˆš2 is an irrational number because...". I'll add a question about that option, and hereby invite
3456:
guide and even tells you what file to use, but no, no body wants to follow a long-standing guideline. In response, everyone is suggesting to just ignore it to get what they want. Those kinds of responses I'd expect only from newly registered editors who ignore policy and guidelines, and everyone here
2962:
until it meets 2.0/WP:B2G. That doesnโ€™t mean though you canโ€™t use it. It just means itโ€™s the original and possibly outdated. I already made a barnstar that meets the guideline, so my version would be put on the 2.0 row next to the snowflake. That would be the outcome if members of this project choose
1983:
The user in question (I'm not sure if its acceptable to comment on such things, but their IP links to the University of Utah whose maths department has one person in complex geometry who is a postdoc of Tian's) edited the page to remove all credit to CDS (a clearly ridiculous claim that not even Tian
5536:
rendering is hard to read, then perhaps we should increase the font size that the rendering engine puts out. There are over 21,000 expressions that use this markup in the October 1, 2020, database dump, and it's not feasible to stop using that method for complicated expressions. We could also advise
3436:
Btw, If you want to take the snowflake down from the main page, go ahead, I'm not stopping you. I did that out of courtesy. I've already done my part. If you want me to take the snowflake down from the main page, just ask and I'll do it. If you don't like the snowflake, then you should be addressing
3417:
No, I didn't pick the snowflake, participants is this discussion did. As for the math equation, that's a decision for this project to decide. If you're wondering why I just suddenly decided to pick the snowflake despite my opposition, it's because I don't need to make a remastered version that meets
2981:
doesn't look like it has any consensus behind it and is little more than one user's recommendation for how barnstars "ought to be" made. After looking at the talk page of the guideline, it looks like a couple other users share my thinking here. In my opinion, barnstar design should be more of an art
5674:
At that point, I decided the best thing I could do was to add some extra detail to the Talk page expanding on my concerns, and to leave the main article untouched in the hope that a third editor might provide a fresh view. That was on 8 October 2020 and in the meantime nothing has happened. I'm not
4990:
That's a good point, though I wonder how often that would just work and how often the user would need to transcribe the formula into some other syntax for whatever math tool they are using locally. (Though a working copy-paste would still help in either case.) In the long term, it might be possible
3143:
would it be possible to make the snowflake be in front of the barnstar, maybe with just a little transparency to barely make the barnstar visible? (in your barnstar, it is already in front, right? Just increase the opacity of the snowflake internals.) That could make a very fine barnstar, and would
2112:
I had actually thought I was being too harsh on Tian in my wording! I was trying to write it impartially, so if the wording needs adjusting I would encourage someone to improve it! This of course is a matter better discussed on the talk page. I suppose I should remark that Tian's proof is very much
4784:, but aesthetically it's less bothersome than one with a broken line. In simple situations like "โˆš2" it's not needed for clarity, but in complex situations like "โˆša - b" it would be ambiguous what's being rooted. Something like "โˆš(a - b)" would resolve that ambiguity, but I would lean toward using 2097:
Just to be clear, I think it is best to take the perspective that there are papers by Chen-Donaldson-Sun and by Tian which claim to prove the conjecture, and that there is unresolved dispute over Tian's. I think "allege" and "rebut" are neutral words for that purpose but I don't mind anyone else's
5009:
Please note that copying already works; it gives you valid LaTeX input. Which is what I need anyway, I'm usually copying either from Knowledge from Knowledge, or from Knowledge to a LaTeX document I'm using locally. I'm a bit skeptical about the use case where you would want to copy a formula and
4512:
option, and the MoS should be accordingly updated. There is no consensus about the "bare Unicode character + no overline" option (e.g. "โˆš2" or "โˆš(a + 1)"), so its use continues to be permitted (status quo). Further discussions may be useful regarding the future of the "bare Unicode character + no
4119:
Really? You're going to complain over "BS"? Really? The fact is, you should just drop this. Trying to steamroll longstanding practice by 3 people is not appropriate. This isn't a problem that needs fixing. And I don't have the energy to devote to arguing over this constantly. I'm doing other
2064:
Your phrasing takes the point of view of Tian, using words that imply that the CDS accusation is dubious ("they have alleged"; "alleged" carries a connotation that the allegation might not be true) while asserting that Tian's response is the more correct version of the story ("Tian has rebutted";
5704:
Thanks. I've given that a go, (re-)reverting and adding some motivating comments to the part of the proof that was (I think) wrongly edited. The terse style of mathematical proofs tends to make them read like they were beamed down from outer space, so I hope some commentary may be more generally
4104:
the addition using a minced vulgarity as an edit summary. I don't think this was appropriate, both in terms of civility and because so far editors seem to prefer that solution 3 to 1. This WikiProject and the Mathematics MOS page are the places I can think of that are most likely to find editors
3870:
syntax currently doesn't work in the Media Viewer extension (the output of which is what you see on English Knowledge if you view an image on a mobile device) so at least in the short term that method still needs to be used in image captions. But for the majority of uses, which appear in general
4023:
I did not intend to misrepresent your position; I was just trying to sum up a longer conversation and my apologies if that is not what you meant. I did point you to this thread so you could jump in and speak for yourself, and linked to the other conversation so readers could get more detail. --
1710:
It seems that the issue of latex (and wikilinks) in section headings has been fixed. In fact, there are 3 points: 1/ rendering in the ToC; 2/ link form the Toc to the correct section; 3/ link from an arrow in the watchlist to the correct section. I edit this post as belonging to the last above
6019:
By the way, a fundamental issue of the previous version of the article article was that there were no indication whether symbols and their meanings are standard, commonly used, rarely used, or specific to few authors. IMO, this may be an important question for users of this page. So, for most
5061:
which copies the latex equation from math tags when you double click on the equation, it's quite handy. Vanilla MathJax has a right click menu which allows the equations to be copied to the clipboard, as Latex, MathML or if present any annotation text. This seems to have gone from our system.
2958:, you are viewing the 1.0 row which are original awards most likely created before the introduction of the guideline. Some were made after but were still put on the 1.0 row. If members choose the snowflake more than anything else, it will be put on WP:BARN but only on the 1.0 row and on a 2117:'s edits it comes across neutrally. That is to say, the baseline assumption is that Tian's effort to find the proof was independent, and this is what is disputed by CDS (whether or not the details are mathematically independent). I think this is reflected fairly neutrally in the text now. 4050:
markup for consistency where at least some can't be rendered properly without it, and I've already been doing that while doing unrelated cleanup. If no one objects to this first MOS addition in the next day or two, I'll see if there's any objection to adding that to the MOS as well. --
4803:
in all cases where there's an argument, to minimize the number of conventions in use and to improve cross-article consistency of appearance. For the record, I see "โˆš" followed by a digit (0-9) in the September 1 database dump about 970 times (slightly less than the number of uses of
1739:
These may work in desktop browsers, but do they work for mobile? We have recently had a discussion about problems with rendering latex formula on different mobile browsers, and there is a phab ticket. Until we can ensure these work for all users on all devices we should keep the MOS
3451:
Don't worry, I took it down. I'm done with this. It seems no one here can't agree on anything. This person wants this, this person wants that, this person likes it, this person doesn't. No, I presented a guideline for which people must follow to make a barnstar. It's literally a
3931:, because otherwise the inconsistencies between formatting of one type of mathematical expression and another using the same variable names but in a different font are worse than the problems caused by Knowledge's poor implementation of <math: --> 5666:
In August, an unnamed user edited the proof, which meant that when I came to read it (for the first time) shortly afterwards it seemed to me to be invalid. The previous version seemed basically okay, so I reverted the edit, adding an explanation at
4421:
I was using Chrome on Android. Interestingly, looking at your example I do see that the equation is missing on Linux Firefox, rather than generating a syntax error. On Android Chrome, though, I don't see a caption at all for your example. 8/ --
2527:
I had originally only thought of this as a star for this project, but I do think (as another commenter pointed out) it could be used in some cases instead of the "E=mcยฒ" star, which currently covers a pretty broad range of topics. Nominating at
5910:
I can confirm that โ‰ค and < are fairly common notation for subgroups, including in group theory papers (as well as textbooks). I don't think that the comment that it's rarely used outside of elementary group theory is accurate: Aschbacher's
2476:
We've had some discussion here; If anyone uninvolved in the discussion wants to add it to the WikiProject page after having read the discussion, I say go ahead. I would ask that you move my userspace page to a page in this Project's namespace.
4779:
Considering the "bare Unicode character + no overline" option...something simple like "โˆš2" is intuitive and clean, and I do see web pages using Unicode in this way, which is probably how it was intended. It bothers me a little that there's no
1971:. This is fairly esoteric stuff, so I'm not sure what technical input to expect, but it is a topic of some contension within the complex geometry community and therefore provokes a lot of edits changing credit around (usually from people in 3988:โ€“ a slight aesthetic shortcoming isn't enough. Basic square roots are fine in running text, as are any basic expressions, and it's a reasonable option to have for editors, and it's extremely widely used. And overall dissatisfaction with 2179:
means "prove false"; one of my peeves is when people use it to mean "deny" or "contradict". But "rebut" is not quite as strong as "refute". I would take "rebut" to mean something like "present a reasoned argument intended to refute".
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people who find any part of an article difficult to read to increase the zoom level on their browser (that works for me), though I do try to remove things like CSS that sets the font size at 80% and whatnot for this same reason. --
4487:
tags disrupt page flow, are not copyable, and renders in a small font which is inaccessible. Supporters respond that page flow seems to be roughly equally disrupted with both methods, that the LaTeX is indeed copyable, and that the
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cases however, like Mathematics or Tropical Cyclones, a snazzy star-shaped symbol is available for use. In those cases, it should be used. Even if we agree that B2G should be/is an official guideline, I think this still falls under
3034:, there isn't a very snazzy star-shaped symbol to represent the topic. For instance, Law Enforcement, Christianity, and Football/Soccer don't really have something star-shaped to represent them. In most topics, this is the case. In 5616:'s notability as a writer, but despite the long section on his mathematical career, it seems to include little that would count as notable by usual wiki standards. Just passing it along in case someone would like to improve it. 1695:
I disable TOCs by default, but I still think that to the extent possible section names should be chosen to avoid needing formulas in them. They're going to look ugly in the section header itself no matter how they're formatted.
4862:, though I think the use of (โˆš + no overline) should be encouraged too, otherwise people who write mathematics in HTML will always have to use Latex for rendering radicals, which seems to break the so-important consistency per 1615: 1975:
outer circle who attribute equal/all of the credit for the proof of the conjecture to him). Matters are slightly complicated by the fact that the main rebuttal to Tian's claims of a proof are by Chen-Donaldson-Sun themselves
3899:
Deacon Vorbis thinks this would be a waste of time, but I'm not asking anyone else to help. What do people here think? Are there any other circumstances where this change should be avoided? Any better alternatives? --
2351:
For what it's worth, I think the Koch snowflake here is a nifty idea. If someone really wants a 5-pointed star, another possiblity might be some tweaking of an appropriate Newton fractal (see thumbnail for example).
6034:
Thanks for the change, and thanks for the overhaul of the article in general! A lot of these math list articles need proper rewrites. Ideally, we can also add citations to several of the statements in the list. โ€”
1874:
being used. Removing them fixed the issue...they even had an odd "scores are temporarily disabled" warning on the rendered page. Probably an issue for phab I guess? You know a lot more about this stuff I think.
4308:
editors to point out any other alternatives they like. Just to avoid smearing comments across three separate pages, I'll start the RFC in a subsection below and point to it from the Mathematics MOS talk page. --
2779:
The Tropical Cyclone Barnstar has five tips. The lightning is clip art, and the majority of barnstars do follow the guidline. Any barnstar @WP:BARN that is on the 1.0 row are older originals approved years ago.
5197:
For inline mathematics. Do none of you realize you can't copy and paste those characters, they mess up the flow of text. There must be a better option than using rendered PNG files to display inline math.
4227:. "in control" was a wrong way to put it. What I meant is that if we get consensus here in the wikiproject, we can boldly edit the MOS/Mathematics; and most probably no one would revert it on the basis of 1527: 4373:: "Incorrect spacing for \mathbin and \mathrel", is waiting for the fix to make it through code review. I think some of the backend problems are now fixed which should make simple bugs quicker to fix. -- 2462:
I think the snowflake one would be a nice addition. I also think it would be nice to have an official mathematics barnstar, as the currently used "E=mcยฒ Barnstar" has a much more physics-feel than math.
5431:
markup method wherever technically possible. Your personal opposition to the proposal is noted and understood, but a supermajority of editors commenting on the RFC did not agree with your position. --
2388:
The small stellated dodecahedron is my favorite of the suggestions so far; it's a bit more visually dramatic than the Koch snowflake, and it depends less on color perception than the Newton fractal.
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seems to be a relic of the time when browsers couldn't render LaTeX properly, and had to generate PNG images for that. Since support is now universal, there's no reason to to refrain from a proper
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For me, the degree (in this case "4") renders at about the same size in both instances, though in a different font. They are smaller than the main text, but that's how the notation works. If the
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the barnstar, it's mathematical, and it has a pleasing simplicity that the others lack. Superimposing a random formula on top of it, in particular, is in my estimation not an improvement.
2886:
ignore it utterly, and that's what I recommend. I think your original offering at the top of this section is the best one. Who cares if it has sixfold instead of fivefold symmetry? It
5426:
The proposal was not for two markup methods from which editors could choose one and then we'd not change back and forth. It was definitely not to retain the status quo. It was to use the
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As someone who doesn't really care all that much, I prefer the fractal. The dodecahdron's shading makes it fairly complex to parse visually. If fractals are deemed a nope, then maybe a
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it also states, in Knowledge's voice rather than as a disputed claim, that Tian's proof is independent of the others. Is that an accurate and neutral description of this controversy? โ€”
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I appreciate that math mode has downsides, but in my opinion the existing radic solution that cobbles together multiple symbols that visibly do not even line up is just too janky. -
2764:
I think I can circumvent the main problem by inscribing a barnstar inside the Koch snowflake. If it is almost transparent, it might even look great. I'll leave that to tomorrow tho.
3396:
is ignoring both this criticism of its meaninglessness and the ongoing discussion of better alternatives, and pushing forward with this ugly choice because it looks sort of mathy. โ€”
2402:
I hadn't considered color perception - The dodecahedron would probably be a better fit, unless users here really prefer the "flat" barnstar look as opposed to something more 3D-y.
2370:
I received a barnstar using this exact Koch snowflake image in 2017, so it is already in informal use, at least. Another non-five-pointed star that I've seen used as a barnstar is
5690:
I suggest you just revert or edit to what you want. The anon editor may no longer be around. If he is, take it to the talk page of the article and see if you can get consensus. --
5057:
but its probably useless for trying to find a specific equation. For copying the latex of the equation is available in a hidden span in the source code, I've a short script in my
2131:"Disputed", as you just used in your comment, is sufficiently neutral wording. Unlike "rebutted" it does not carry the connotation that the counterargument is convincing to all. โ€” 3980:
Eh, I said a hell of a lot more than that it would be a waste of time, and oversimplifying my rationale like that is kind of dishonest. There's just no good reason to kill off
1356: 1157: 1102: 1043: 988: 933: 878: 823: 768: 713: 658: 603: 548: 493: 438: 383: 328: 273: 218: 163: 108: 25: 3632: 2011:. However, as the controversy is notable, it seems worth to mention Tian's claim in a footnote. Also, it seems worh to mention Veblen prize to support (source) attribution. 4066:
This is complete nonsense. It conflates several issues, and you're ignoring the standing ability of editors to use text-style math rendering in violation of the spirit of
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That is a strange interaction; I think you did the reasonable thing by commenting out the score sections. I added a note to the phab ticket. Thanks for looking at this. โ€“
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things here. You haven't even remotely fucking listened to a word I've said in earlier discussions, just plowing ahead with your fingers in your ears, and it's tiring. โ€“
3005:
That has been a long-standing guideline. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to surpass a guideline for which WikiProject Knowledge Awards follows.
2950:
WP:B2G has been a long-standing guideline for many years. It literally tells you how to make a barnstar and what file to use, and youโ€™re correct MarkH21, you have to use
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It appears that the above 3/ does not work correctly with latex (it works with wikilinks). So, at least in this talk page, latex should be avoided in section headings.
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This proposed text does not mention the "bare Unicode character + no overline" option, like "โˆš2" or perhaps "โˆš(a - b)", but this could be added if editors support it.
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when I already made a barnstar that meets it hence the green barnstar above. The snowflake has been added as the original version because this project has chosen it.
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Weโ€™re still talking about this? The original is the nicest. The right margin is oddly narrow when thereโ€™s no text, but maybe it corrects when a comment is added? โ€”
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is the best way to write such expressions in HTML, but the result is unattractive due to the hole between the overline and the radical symbol in many web browsers:
1843:
Can someone who know about math rendering please take a look at the "'"`UNIQ--postMath-00000001-QINU`"'?. The groupย ?'"`UNIQ--postMath-00000002-QINU`"'? " code in
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No worries, the bugs have been merged. Great minds think alike. I could not replicate your bug but found one which failed. What mobile/browser were you using? --
3692:
Thank you and the snowflake is fine now as is anything else for the 1.0 version because a 2.0/WP:B2G version doesn't have to be made when I already made one via
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to be used somewhere else in the article. I wouldn't object if other editors want to keep this option, but if it were entirely up to me, I'd probably just use
2907:
Out of the options given so far, the original proposed barnstar looks the cleanest and least jarring in terms of color & readability. I donโ€™t see much in
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tags are compatible with screen readers for accessibility. There were no valid grounds here for me as a closer to discard any views. Therefore, there is
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OK, I have removed the disputed sentence. However, I have replaced "means" by "may mean" for suggesting that this is not a universally accepted notation.
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Rebut means "claim or prove that (evidence or an accusation) is false", so I think it is a neutral word to use. I've removed the word "independently".
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symbols, I have to do some bold choices. When my choice is wrong (as for < and โ‰ค), the new structure of the article makes easy to fix my mistakes.
3734:
where we have an entire section of Exceptionally young medallists with their date of birth sourced to Wikidata and as such possible violation of our
4840:
for all radical symbols, except possibly when talking about the symbol itself or in special circumstances where for technical reasons <math: -->
3066:
The original Tropical Cyclone was created in 2006. I was not around when that happened and neither was the guideline, and a barnstar is literally
2025:
Tianโ€™s paper is very widely cited, on the same level as Chen-Donaldson-Sunโ€™s. So I believe it should be mentioned. I addressed this in one way on
1261: 3951:. Whatever the replacement is, we should get rid of โˆš + overline which looks awful and can even be confusing (e.g. a reader could wonder whether 3261:
Actually, I've been making different styles, but they all look terrible. I don't think I can do any better with the snowflake, sorry about that.
1968: 2598: 17: 1390:". However, as the following dummy subsections show (see the TOC of this talk page), Latex is rendered correctly on the TOC, at least for me. 4629: 4139: 2371: 1206: 1202: 1198: 2269:
Looks fine to me. I might have it say "contributions" instead of "contribs"; I don't see why the word benefits from being shortened here.
5671:. A while later, this was re-reverted anonymously by a different IP address (though quite possibly the same person), with no discussion. 4477:
syntax is a relic of old technology, renders poorly (sometimes with a gap between the symbols), and is less semantically meaningful than
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isn't appropriate, and just finding that a couple people agree with you isn't enough for a change like this. This is not productive. โ€“
4014: 3926:. More, I think that in articles that need radicals or other mathematical expressions too complicated to render nicely using templates, 2361: 2213: 1905: 1884: 1800:
which should use HTML only, as LaTeX markup might cause uneven spacing in the table of contents, as well as the appearance of illegible
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but not the entire background. Even the Tropical Cyclone Barnstar is not exactly a "normal" barnstar either. Just do your best really.
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I'm posting here to see if people more associated with the project would like this addition - If so, I'll add it to the project page.
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doesn't work (the only circumstances like this that I can think of offhand are when you want to make a wikilink on the formula like
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I looked up this alleged "guideline" and as far as I can tell you are completely free to ignore it utterly, a great many barnstars
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sure where best to go from here, so we end up with a reliable version. Any suggestions or comments would be very welcome. Thanks,
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markup is incompatible with the Media Viewer (used for full-screen image viewing on mobile devices), so until that is fixed, the
3145: 3067: 2951: 2912: 2621:, I'd expect something more than โˆšx. I don't think I can beat the shininess of the Nuvola apps icon, but this is what I got (see 2333:. I believe six is the usual number of points for a Koch snowflake, but if a five-pointed one exists please let me know. Thanks! 1446: 5984: 2813: 5668: 1941: 5478:
Perhaps you could give some examples of your accessibility concerns, as no one else has mentioned this? For example how does
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interested in these issues. Is there some other forum you think should be alerted to this proposal to test for consensus? --
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We prefer simple text for simple expressions, radicals included. This has been common practice, and trying to force use of
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Some more possibilities for five-pointed thingies that are at least vaguely mathematical and not just "ooh it's a fractal":
3794:. At least in my web browser, the horizontal and diagonal lines don't actually connect, which to me looks pretty horrible. 5603:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Perhaps there are differences in how screen readers interpret each rendering. Does anyone have any info on that? โ€”ย Martin
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not independent mathematically (the details are almost identical in most places, hence the controversy) but I think after
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I've added Tian's credit and added links both to CDS's criticism and Tian's rebuttal. Hopefully this resolves the issue.
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hope you don't mind, but I made some style changes to the request for comment, to make it easier to find stuff around.
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Eight editors supported the proposal; four opposed it. Both sides made compelling arguments. Supporters say that the
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Ouch. I'm blind and stupid for misinterpreting it so badly. I'll see what I can do to make it fit the guidelines.
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Ah, you're right. Highlighting is a bit futzy but is possible if you go a bit further to either side than usual.
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seems to be related to the scores being disabled, but I don't see any mention of conflicts with math rendering. โ€“
1217: 5920: 4850: 4224: 3937: 3401: 2866: 2379: 2136: 2074: 2007:) while no independent source attributes the result to Tian. This suffices to revert the attribution change as 1701: 1306: 3554: 3334: 2501:, you might get revert-warring if you try to add it to WP:BARNSTAR. (No, I don't approve of that fact, as a 1810:
that HTML should also be discouraged, but the discussion so far does not raise sufficient consensus on this.
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who said the above results don't represent a consensus, so we'll await a formal closure by someone else. --
5203: 4701: 4125: 4080: 4010: 3696:. And my apologies as well. This discussion wouldn't have dragged on if I just said something a lot sooner. 3302: 3051: 2990: 2540: 2485: 2423: 2410: 2357: 2341: 2291: 2260: 2209: 1901: 1880: 1364: 3389: 1268: 5404:. It's one thing if you want to recommend the use, but any large-scale changes away shouldn't be done. โ€“ 4976:
the radic alternative gives something that can be searched and copied, unlike the math template example.
3506:, thanks for the efforts. I think it doesn't change the fact that there is a barnstar for mathematics in 5465: 5125:
The proposed MOS change shifts preference to the LaTeX for most purposes but does not explicitly forbid
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Support seems to be strong, so I reimplemented the proposed change, and will start fixing articles. --
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don't look all that great to me: a scatterplot from the OEIS, a StackExchange thread, MathWorks, etc.
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Discussion for improving the implementation of Infobox mathematical statement at Fermat's Last Theorem
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is under control of this wikiproject, so I don't see any other better place to find consensus either.
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is definitely common for absolute continuity of measures (for example it is used in Stein-Shakarchi
3240:." As you can tell, there's not much of a barnstar to view, but I will come up with another sample. 5963: 5937: 5916: 5877: 4846: 3999:
isn't what this is about. It's here, and it's widely used, and this isn't about that. It's about
3933: 3862: 3716: 3412: 3397: 3379: 3070:. I said the snowflake can be added in the 1.0 row, but there also has to be a 2.0/WP:B2G version. 2897: 2862: 2375: 2283:
The text is customizable; I've just used the message shown here to demonstrate this functionality.
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FTR, for ease of reference I documented what seems to be the consensus position on the โˆš issue at
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I'll give leniency since some of the new barnstars have clip art behind the actual barnstar like
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I'd like to point out that I'm only disagreeing with one point of the guideline - I don't think
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Hello everyone! I created a barnstar for the Mathematics WikiProject, which currently lives at
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I have frequently seen โ‰ค and < as notations for subgroups. It is the standard notation in
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It seemed to be snowballing, but shall we give it a week and see if anyone else weighs in? --
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article. I'm wanting to avoid a slow-motion edit-war and seem to have ended up in paralysis.
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overline" option: whether its use is encouraged, accepted, discouraged, or prohibited. Best,
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The snowflake is actually heading to the wrong direction if you want an official barnstar at
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That aside, the discussion has not been online long enough to establish consensus, I'd say,
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to cast their votes officially here, as they were present in the discussion earlier. Best,
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This is to notify members of this Wikiprojects that a likely controversial move request of
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by Scott, for example, and is common enough to be mentioned (in my person experience). โ€”
5827: 5785: 4992: 4741: 4390: 4370: 4366: 4359: 4272:. There may be other alternatives, like a bare โˆš without an overline. Whatever the case, 5100: 1786:
In the absence of new feedback here, I took the liberty to boldly change the wording in
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to fix this downside by technical means; to get the ball rolling on that I just filed
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Well, we could remove false statements from MOS without changing the advice given. --
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I had this on my watchlist, but missed the de-PROD. I have nominated it at AfD: see
2664: 2561: 6037: 6002: 5896: 5186: 5137: 4891: 4290: 4067: 3964: 3735: 2945: 2917: 2008: 2004: 1273: 2709:, but there are no rules for WikiProjects to have their own collection of awards. 1893: 1610:{\displaystyle \left({\frac {1}{2}}<{\frac {s_{X_{1}}}{s_{X_{2}}}}<2\right)} 1795: 1387: 5577: 5538: 5432: 5338: 5320: 5274:
I don't think there's a good way of writing exponents in big blocks of texts. -
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version results in some elements of the results being tiny and hard to read.
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on what kind of sourcing should be appropriate for an Erdล‘sโ€“Bacon number. --
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or in a reference with both a formula in a title and a link on the title). โ€”
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tags, which are designed to render TeX precisely. Opposers say that inline
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Let me also add my support to the idea of discontinuing usage of {{radic}}
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I think the snowflake one is heading on the right direction. Any thoughts?
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that attribute the proof of the conjecture to Chen-Donaldson-Sun (at least
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This method should be avoided whenever technically possible. Instead, use
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Knowledge:Manual of Style/Mathematics#Typesetting of mathematical formulae
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be much better than The Winnowing Fan Barnstar in terms of not hiding the
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Unicode character (โˆš) can be used when only the symbol itself is needed.
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I'd also like to thank you for your efforts in designing a new barnstar!
2374:(although that one does contain numerous five-pointed stars within it). โ€” 1787: 1383: 5669:
Talk:Radonโ€“Nikodym theorem#Reverting proof to include Hahn decomposition
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I am happy to close this, unless someone gets there before me. โ€”ย Martin
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I was attempting to do something math-related in making this barnstar a
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tags, I've used a bit for finding uses of specific latex commands e.g.
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has said, the notation is used in a wide variety of topics outside of
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Does that work for you? Maybe I should close that feature request? --
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tags to render expressions containing radicals is superior to the old
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This discussion has highlights the incompatibility of MediaViewer and
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talk page in reference to the controversy about the resolution of the
5639:. The history of curvature is a subject where we are sadly lacking.-- 5097:
I 100% agree. We should replace the โˆš + overline with just โˆš or with
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p.s. A couple of small math rendering bugs have been recently fixed,
4335:'s use should be strongly discouraged, for already-voiced reasons. -- 3946:
I 100% agree. We should replace the โˆš + overline with just โˆš or with
3881:(of which I see about 1300 in the September 1 database dump) and โˆš + 3030:
barnstar should have to use the same image. In most topics listed at
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Also, many barnstars go against the clipart size recommendations too.
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I'm not quite sure, but I believe the tropical cyclone has 6 points:
2065:"rebutted" means "definitively proved incorrect"). After an edit by 5852:, two standard measure theory references). I have no comment about 4288:
with a notification here) to establish broader formal consensus. โ€”
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looks bad enough that it should always be replaced by <math: -->
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I had a look at some standard abstract algebra references (Lang's
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anyway, since Latex screwed up the vertical line spacing on TOC.)
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is much nicer looking and also more semantically meaningful than
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I would not want that last to show up in any TOC of interest. --
5915:(a central and very non-elementary text) uses it, for example. 3374:
superimposed on it. What's that even supposed to be about? --
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for guidance (but it does seem to suggest that one has to use
2497:. And if you don't propose this new, more specific variant at 1224: 33: 5631:
Perhaphs the most interesting thing is the paper he wrote on
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Talk:List of International Mathematical Olympiad participants
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If we are talking about an official barnstar to be listed at
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markup (of which I see about 67,000 instances using \sqrt).
1522:{\displaystyle \left(1/2<s_{X_{1}}/s_{X_{2}}<2\right)} 5272:? To me they look about equally disruptive to the spacing. 2493:
FYI, there already is one for "mathematics and science" at
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currently tells us not to use Latex on section headings, "
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In short, nice work! I !vote for your original effort. --
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for vector inequalities, this doesn't seem to be common.
4045:. I agree with the idea of fully converting articles to 3269:
Since you introduced the snowflake. Is Walwal's version
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as LaTeX markup does not appear in the table of contents
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is in progress . Your input will be appreciated. Cheers
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article text, I would like to replace the instances of
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algebraic number theory / automorphic forms paper (in
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without changing the original advice, as suggested by
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The following discussion is an archived record of a
2954:. If you see anything that doesnโ€™t use this file at 4459:
No further edits should be made to this discussion.
5864: 5836: 5794: 5774: 5754: 5506: 5400:for this one case is a horrible idea, and there's 5264: 5135:and โˆš for cases when copy-ability is necessary. โ€” 5115: 4729: 4575: 3847: 3818: 3662: 3626: 3587: 3366: 2963:the snowflake, it will be next to a 2.0 barnstar. 1609: 1521: 1394:Equal or unequal sample sizes, similar variances ( 1357:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Van Eck's sequence 5659:I think I'd appreciate some help/advice with the 4771:(Note some editors have already commented at the 3084:Here is a quick sample I made with the snowflake: 1533:Equal or unequal sample sizes, similar variances 1443:Equal or unequal sample sizes, similar variances 4695:tags and \sqrt{}, even if inline. For example: 3930:mathematics should be formatted by <math: --> 3755:Apparently intended as an inline alternative to 2505:problem, but I've directly run into it before.) 1959:Yauโ€“Tianโ€“Donaldson vandalism on K-stability page 5452:per Graeme Bartlett (search concerns) and for 4660:When part of a larger mathematical expression, 3236:The Winnowing Fan Barnstar is actually on the " 1255:Talk:Fermat's Last Theorem#Further improvements 5235:Which plays better as part of a line of text: 4369:"Rendering of \oinit very dense" is fixed and 4362:. I imagine it will take a long time to fix. 3738:policy. Please contribute to this discussion. 5576:markup is compatible with screen readers. -- 4549:Should inline โˆš expressions be rendered with 4462:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 3855:. This should look the same in all browsers. 1232:This page has archives. Sections older than 57: 8: 5782:(for vector inequality), and for the use of 2171:I don't think "rebut" is quite as strong as 5802:for absolute continuity in measure theory. 4583:where technically possible instead of with 2499:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Knowledge Awards 2317:I believe most barnstars are five pointed. 4286:Knowledge talk:Manual of Style/Mathematics 64: 50: 5857: 5829: 5787: 5767: 5747: 5497: 5492: 5490: 5255: 5250: 5248: 5102: 4759:method should be used in image captions. 4720: 4715: 4705: 4703: 4566: 4561: 4559: 3838: 3833: 3831: 3809: 3807: 3654: 3639: 3606: 3600: 3588:{\displaystyle \int {\frac {1}{\ln x}}dx} 3561: 3556: 3527: 3341: 3336: 2662: 2633: 1655:I'm looking forward to seeing the ToC on 1586: 1581: 1569: 1564: 1558: 1545: 1538: 1500: 1495: 1486: 1478: 1473: 1458: 1448: 5742:I have similar questions for the use of 3802:renders the same expressions like this: 3780:to render square roots, etc. like this: 3367:{\displaystyle \int {\frac {dx}{\ln x}}} 2851:The recognition sign of the Pythagoreans 1711:subsection for testing the third point. 4789:in these situations. Certainly I'd use 4730:{\displaystyle {\sqrt {9}},{\sqrt{27}}} 1869:There was some weird conflict with the 88: 5941: 5096: 5010:have it as anything other than LaTeX. 2599:File:Nuvola apps edu mathematics-p.svg 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Mathematics 6072:WikiProject Mathematics archives/2020 5212:As we discovered above, you actually 4140:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Mathematics 3751:Improving rendering of radical symbol 2372:File:Small stellated dodecahedron.png 7: 5974:automorphic representations textbook 5571:says the hidden MathML generated by 2597:Does this meet satisfactory? I used 5572: 5532: 5427: 5396: 5217: 5154: 5051: 4955: 4799: 4790: 4785: 4745: 4691: 4550: 4498: 4489: 4483: 4478: 4355: 4268: 4071: 4046: 3995: 3947: 3892: 3866: 3798: 3756: 3294:I think Walwal's star looks great! 2145:Thank you for your input and edits! 1963:Can I please get some input in the 1870: 1839:UNIQ code instead of math rendering 5980:topological automorphic forms book 5635:and development of the concept of 5050:Search does work for equations in 3730:I have opened a new discussion at 3726:Exceptionally young IMO medallists 45:WikiProject Mathematics archives ( 32: 5185:This is not a radical proposal. 5078:Per my comment above, support. -- 4831:Please place your comments below. 4764:Further comments by the proposer. 3331:I don't care for the unmotivated 2705:. Barnstars must go according to 1236:may be automatically archived by 5731:. In the current version and in 5599:The discussion above is closed. 5216:copy-and-paste the rendering of 4794:for consistent appearance if it 3891:(of which I see about 100) with 3528: 3167: 3146:File:Original Barnstar Hires.png 3068:File:Original Barnstar Hires.png 2952:File:Original Barnstar Hires.png 2913:File:Original Barnstar Hires.png 2734: 2663: 2634: 2560: 2230: 1999:If I understand well, there are 1940:Editors are invited to weigh in 1338:sources offered on the Talk page 38: 4814:, and "โˆš(" about 300 times. -- 4632:, concerning "Radical symbol": 4257:By the way, I did not say that 2856:An impossible Penrose pentagram 2814:File:Nuclear Barnstar Hires.png 2530:WT:WikiProject Knowledge Awards 5762:with a different meaning from 5190:04:03, 28 September 2020 (UTC) 5178:16:46, 27 September 2020 (UTC) 5147:06:58, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 5095:: As with my pre-RfC comment, 5088:14:45, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 5072:17:38, 27 September 2020 (UTC) 5042:04:00, 28 September 2020 (UTC) 5020:06:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 5005:17:41, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4986:11:21, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4969:10:52, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4931:17:41, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4909:01:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4877:02:15, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 4855:06:40, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4824:05:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4620:05:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4432:01:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4417:21:00, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 4403:17:54, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 4384:18:45, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 4345:02:17, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4318:05:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4300:01:35, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4242:02:21, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4216:02:16, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4189:01:32, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4175:01:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4160:01:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4134:01:20, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4115:01:13, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4089:01:02, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4061:00:56, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 4034:17:59, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 4019:17:42, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 3974:17:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 3942:17:22, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 3910:17:09, 22 September 2020 (UTC) 3634:, but it would remount to the 3271:File:Mathematics barnstar2.png 2246:For contribs to math articles 1271:. Any input is appreciated! โ€” 1262:Infobox mathematical statement 1: 5985:algebraic number theory paper 5458: 4350:MediaViewer and <math: --> 3694:File:Mathematics Barnstar.png 2744:The Tropical Cyclone Barnstar 2506: 1969:Yauโ€“Tianโ€“Donaldson conjecture 1257:on improving the instance of 1253:There is a new discussion at 6047:08:49, 29 October 2020 (UTC) 6030:08:46, 29 October 2020 (UTC) 6012:07:05, 29 October 2020 (UTC) 5925:20:42, 28 October 2020 (UTC) 5906:19:13, 28 October 2020 (UTC) 5882:12:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 5812:10:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 5729:List of mathematical symbols 5723:Subgroup and other notations 5715:21:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC) 5700:08:58, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 5685:08:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 5649:09:02, 26 October 2020 (UTC) 5626:03:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC) 5586:22:58, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 5564:21:32, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 5547:17:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 5527:10:31, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 5474:05:08, 19 October 2020 (UTC) 5441:17:22, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5418:13:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5385:13:19, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5364:12:58, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5347:06:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5329:02:41, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 5315:01:53, 12 October 2020 (UTC) 5290:01:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC) 5231:15:38, 11 October 2020 (UTC) 5208:07:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC) 4540:07:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC) 3746:05:39, 25 October 2020 (UTC) 3721:13:15, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3706:03:16, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3681:03:11, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3627:{\displaystyle e^{2\pi i}=1} 3521:03:05, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3467:02:10, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3447:01:04, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3432:00:51, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3406:00:36, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3384:23:52, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3327:21:12, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3306:20:53, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3283:20:46, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3250:19:04, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3225:18:51, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3194:18:51, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3123:15:53, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3080:15:23, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3055:15:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 3015:14:57, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2994:14:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2973:13:43, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2927:07:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2902:07:14, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2871:06:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2826:05:22, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2805:05:02, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2790:04:22, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2775:03:54, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2719:03:39, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2697:03:26, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 2611:19:17, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 2592:00:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 2544:15:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC) 2522:05:16, 19 October 2020 (UTC) 2489:01:47, 16 October 2020 (UTC) 2450:03:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC) 2414:01:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC) 2190:00:17, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 1954:19:22, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 1924:16:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 1910:16:01, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 1889:15:46, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 1857:15:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC) 1821:10:01, 17 October 2020 (UTC) 1636:(I changed Latex to HTML on 1373:20:21, 15 October 2020 (UTC) 1350:18:42, 15 October 2020 (UTC) 1248: 4070:. Wholesale conversion to 3958:refers to a square root of 3819:{\displaystyle {\sqrt {7}}} 2576:put your message here ~~~~ 2398:18:16, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2384:19:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2366:19:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2345:18:45, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2325:17:41, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2309:17:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2295:01:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2279:00:50, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 2264:00:39, 5 October 2020 (UTC) 2222:User:AviationFreak/MathStar 2155:18:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2141:18:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2127:18:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2108:17:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2093:17:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2079:17:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2053:14:39, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 2039:16:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC) 2021:14:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC) 1994:11:43, 7 October 2020 (UTC) 1782:11:53, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1764:11:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1750:11:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1735:10:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1721:09:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1706:05:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1691:04:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1675:02:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1651:01:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1631:01:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 1313:18:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC) 1288:Requested move notification 1283:23:20, 4 October 2020 (UTC) 6088: 5507:{\displaystyle {\sqrt{3}}} 5456:reasons; the <math: --> 5265:{\displaystyle {\sqrt{3}}} 4921:Sure, thanks for that. -- 4634: 4576:{\displaystyle {\sqrt{4}}} 3848:{\displaystyle {\sqrt{4}}} 3317:I've added it to WP:BARN. 3238:need to be remastered list 3177:The Winnowing Fan Barnstar 2299:Ah, OK, that makes sense. 1794:above. The MOS now reads: 5850:Real and Complex Analysis 5059:User:Salix alba/vector.js 4773:beginning of this section 4740:Because of Mediawiki bug 3534: 3173: 3166: 3103:File:Testfile89345324.png 2740: 2733: 2669: 2640: 2601:from the project banner. 2566: 2559: 2236: 2229: 2098:edit to the same effect. 1379:Latex on section headings 5969:algebraic topology paper 5890:by Dummit and Foote and 5601:Please do not modify it. 5333:Well, I was reverted by 4456:Please do not modify it. 4389:Ah dear, I'd just filed 3663:{\displaystyle E=mc^{2}} 3538:The Mathematics Barnstar 3437:the person who made it. 2846:The Perles configuration 2673:The Mathematics Barnstar 2644:The Mathematics Barnstar 2570:The Mathematics Barnstar 2240:The Mathematics Barnstar 1620:Am I missing something? 1317: 5942:elementary group theory 2424:File:Petersen1 tiny.svg 5866: 5865:{\displaystyle \leqq } 5838: 5796: 5776: 5756: 5755:{\displaystyle \leqq } 5508: 5266: 5117: 4731: 4577: 4267:has to be replaced by 3849: 3820: 3664: 3628: 3589: 3368: 3107: 2553:, I came up with this: 2217: 1611: 1523: 1239:Lowercase sigmabot III 5867: 5839: 5797: 5777: 5775:{\displaystyle \leq } 5757: 5661:Radonโ€“Nikodym theorem 5655:Radonโ€“Nikodym theorem 5509: 5267: 5118: 4886:Also humbly inviting 4732: 4578: 3850: 3821: 3665: 3629: 3590: 3369: 3273:good enough for you? 3106: 2224:and looks like this: 2203: 1612: 1524: 1330:proposed for deletion 1269:Fermat's Last Theorem 5856: 5837:{\displaystyle \ll } 5828: 5795:{\displaystyle \ll } 5786: 5766: 5746: 5489: 5247: 5101: 4702: 4558: 4547:Request for comment: 4442:Radical RFC comments 3830: 3806: 3638: 3599: 3555: 3335: 2960:list for remastering 2623:logarithmic integral 2001:WP:secondary sources 1537: 1447: 5959:combinatorics paper 5913:Finite Group Theory 5824:On the other hand, 5116:{\displaystyle ...} 4839:using <math: --> 4628:to the section for 4451:request for comment 4282:Request for Comment 3863:Template talk:Radic 1294:Algebraic character 5964:model theory paper 5954:group theory paper 5949:group theory paper 5862: 5834: 5792: 5772: 5752: 5504: 5335:User:Deacon Vorbis 5262: 5113: 4727: 4573: 4202:You should review 4138:As far as I know, 3845: 3816: 3660: 3624: 3585: 3364: 3108: 2503:WP:NOT#BUREAUCRACY 2218: 1935:Erdล‘sโ€“Bacon number 1872:...</score: --> 1607: 1519: 1326:Van Eck's sequence 1319:Van Eck's sequence 6042: 6007: 5901: 5574:...</math: --> 5562: 5534:...</math: --> 5525: 5502: 5454:MOS:ACCESSIBILITY 5429:...</math: --> 5398:...</math: --> 5362: 5260: 5219:...</math: --> 5156:...</math: --> 5142: 4957:...</math: --> 4801:...</math: --> 4792:...</math: --> 4787:...</math: --> 4747:...</math: --> 4725: 4710: 4693:...</math: --> 4571: 4552:...</math: --> 4522: 4500:...</math: --> 4491:...</math: --> 4485:...</math: --> 4480:...</math: --> 4295: 4270:...</math: --> 4225:WP:LOCALCONSENSUS 4073:...</math: --> 4048:...</math: --> 3997:...</math: --> 3969: 3949:...</math: --> 3894:...</math: --> 3868:...</math: --> 3843: 3814: 3800:...</math: --> 3758:...</math: --> 3577: 3548: 3547: 3362: 3199: 3198: 2922: 2754: 2753: 2683: 2682: 2654: 2653: 2580: 2579: 2250: 2249: 1798:section headings, 1594: 1553: 1278: 1246: 1245: 95:Nov 2002โ€“Dec 2003 6079: 6045: 6040: 6010: 6005: 5996:(e.g. page 1649) 5935: 5904: 5899: 5888:Abstract Algebra 5871: 5869: 5868: 5863: 5843: 5841: 5840: 5835: 5801: 5799: 5798: 5793: 5781: 5779: 5778: 5773: 5761: 5759: 5758: 5753: 5575: 5552: 5535: 5515: 5513: 5511: 5510: 5505: 5503: 5501: 5493: 5484: 5483: 5472: 5430: 5399: 5374: 5352: 5305: 5280: 5271: 5269: 5268: 5263: 5261: 5259: 5251: 5241: 5240: 5220: 5167: 5161: 5157: 5145: 5140: 5134: 5128: 5122: 5120: 5119: 5114: 5053: 5031: 4958: 4953: 4947: 4904: 4872: 4813: 4807: 4802: 4793: 4788: 4758: 4752: 4748: 4736: 4734: 4733: 4728: 4726: 4724: 4716: 4711: 4706: 4694: 4686: 4685: 4679: 4678: 4669: 4663: 4647: 4626:Proposed changes 4609: 4603: 4599: 4598: 4592: 4586: 4582: 4580: 4579: 4574: 4572: 4570: 4562: 4553: 4520: 4511: 4505: 4501: 4492: 4486: 4481: 4476: 4470: 4458: 4357: 4334: 4328: 4298: 4293: 4279: 4271: 4266: 4260: 4237: 4201: 4170: 4155: 4099: 4074: 4049: 4004: 4003: 3998: 3993: 3992: 3987: 3972: 3967: 3961: 3957: 3956: 3950: 3924: 3918: 3895: 3890: 3884: 3880: 3874: 3869: 3854: 3852: 3851: 3846: 3844: 3842: 3834: 3825: 3823: 3822: 3817: 3815: 3810: 3801: 3793: 3792: 3786: 3785: 3779: 3773: 3769: 3763: 3759: 3691: 3676: 3669: 3667: 3666: 3661: 3659: 3658: 3633: 3631: 3630: 3625: 3617: 3616: 3594: 3592: 3591: 3586: 3578: 3576: 3562: 3532: 3525: 3524: 3516: 3416: 3373: 3371: 3370: 3365: 3363: 3361: 3350: 3342: 3316: 3301: 3293: 3268: 3260: 3235: 3220: 3189: 3171: 3164: 3163: 3104: 3065: 3050: 3025: 3004: 2989: 2949: 2941: 2925: 2920: 2881: 2800: 2770: 2738: 2731: 2730: 2692: 2667: 2660: 2659: 2638: 2631: 2630: 2564: 2557: 2556: 2539: 2520: 2484: 2469: 2448: 2409: 2340: 2290: 2259: 2234: 2227: 2226: 2063: 1873: 1868: 1845:Circle of fifths 1816: 1806:I do agree with 1805: 1777: 1665: 1646: 1626: 1616: 1614: 1613: 1608: 1606: 1602: 1595: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1590: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1573: 1559: 1554: 1546: 1528: 1526: 1525: 1520: 1518: 1514: 1507: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1490: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1462: 1437: 1435: 1434: 1425: 1422: 1409: 1407: 1406: 1403: 1400: 1389: 1310: 1304: 1298:Formal character 1281: 1276: 1267:that is used at 1266: 1260: 1241: 1225: 66: 59: 52: 42: 34: 6087: 6086: 6082: 6081: 6080: 6078: 6077: 6076: 6062: 6061: 6043: 6036: 6008: 6001: 5999: 5944:. For example: 5936:Adding to what 5929: 5902: 5895: 5854: 5853: 5826: 5825: 5784: 5783: 5764: 5763: 5744: 5743: 5727:I am rewriting 5725: 5657: 5610: 5605: 5604: 5487: 5486: 5481: 5479: 5368: 5301: 5276: 5245: 5244: 5238: 5236: 5195:Strongly oppose 5165: 5159: 5143: 5136: 5132: 5126: 5099: 5098: 5028:Graeme Bartlett 5025: 4978:Graeme Bartlett 4951: 4945: 4944:- the template 4902: 4870: 4811: 4805: 4756: 4750: 4700: 4699: 4683: 4681: 4676: 4674: 4667: 4661: 4651: 4650: 4643: 4639: 4607: 4601: 4596: 4594: 4590: 4584: 4556: 4555: 4542: 4509: 4503: 4474: 4468: 4454: 4444: 4352: 4332: 4326: 4296: 4289: 4280:you can open a 4273: 4264: 4258: 4235: 4195: 4168: 4153: 4093: 4001: 4000: 3990: 3989: 3981: 3970: 3963: 3959: 3954: 3952: 3922: 3916: 3888: 3882: 3878: 3872: 3828: 3827: 3804: 3803: 3790: 3788: 3783: 3781: 3777: 3771: 3767: 3761: 3753: 3728: 3685: 3674: 3650: 3636: 3635: 3602: 3597: 3596: 3566: 3553: 3552: 3514: 3410: 3351: 3343: 3333: 3332: 3310: 3295: 3287: 3262: 3254: 3229: 3218: 3187: 3102: 3059: 3044: 3019: 2998: 2983: 2943: 2935: 2923: 2916: 2875: 2798: 2768: 2690: 2533: 2478: 2467: 2427: 2403: 2334: 2284: 2253: 2198: 2057: 1961: 1938: 1862: 1841: 1814: 1775: 1661: 1644: 1624: 1618: 1582: 1577: 1565: 1560: 1544: 1540: 1535: 1534: 1530: 1496: 1491: 1474: 1469: 1454: 1450: 1445: 1444: 1440: 1433: 1432: 1426: 1423: 1421: 1420: 1414: 1413: 1411: 1404: 1401: 1398: 1397: 1395: 1381: 1322: 1307: 1302: 1290: 1279: 1272: 1264: 1258: 1251: 1237: 1226: 1220: 1211: 1097: 87: 86: 73: 70: 30: 29: 28: 12: 11: 5: 6085: 6083: 6075: 6074: 6064: 6063: 6060: 6059: 6058: 6057: 6056: 6055: 6054: 6053: 6052: 6051: 6050: 6049: 6039: 6017: 6004: 5998: 5997: 5987: 5982: 5977: 5971: 5966: 5961: 5956: 5951: 5945: 5938:Russ Woodroofe 5917:Russ Woodroofe 5898: 5861: 5833: 5822: 5791: 5771: 5751: 5724: 5721: 5720: 5719: 5718: 5717: 5705:helpful, too. 5656: 5653: 5652: 5651: 5614:Bogdan Suceavฤƒ 5612:I can't judge 5609: 5608:Bogdan Suceavฤƒ 5606: 5598: 5597: 5596: 5595: 5594: 5593: 5592: 5591: 5590: 5589: 5588: 5500: 5496: 5446: 5445: 5444: 5443: 5421: 5420: 5403: 5402:nothing to fix 5393: 5392: 5391: 5390: 5389: 5388: 5387: 5317: 5294: 5293: 5292: 5273: 5258: 5254: 5243: 5233: 5192: 5180: 5149: 5139: 5112: 5109: 5106: 5090: 5076: 5075: 5074: 5048: 5047: 5046: 5045: 5044: 4971: 4938: 4937: 4936: 4935: 4934: 4933: 4914: 4913: 4912: 4911: 4885: 4857: 4847:David Eppstein 4828: 4827: 4826: 4761: 4738: 4737: 4723: 4719: 4714: 4709: 4688: 4687: 4655:radical symbol 4649: 4648: 4640: 4635: 4623: 4600:(which uses โˆš+ 4569: 4565: 4545: 4543: 4466: 4465: 4464: 4445: 4443: 4440: 4439: 4438: 4437: 4436: 4435: 4434: 4351: 4348: 4323: 4322: 4321: 4320: 4292: 4255: 4254: 4253: 4252: 4251: 4250: 4249: 4248: 4247: 4246: 4245: 4244: 4193: 4192: 4191: 4143: 4039: 4038: 4037: 4036: 3978: 3977: 3976: 3966: 3934:David Eppstein 3861:points out at 3841: 3837: 3813: 3752: 3749: 3727: 3724: 3709: 3708: 3683: 3657: 3653: 3649: 3646: 3643: 3623: 3620: 3615: 3612: 3609: 3605: 3584: 3581: 3575: 3572: 3569: 3565: 3560: 3546: 3545: 3541: 3540: 3535: 3533: 3500: 3499: 3498: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3494: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3488: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3484: 3483: 3482: 3481: 3480: 3479: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3413:David Eppstein 3398:David Eppstein 3360: 3357: 3354: 3349: 3346: 3340: 3197: 3196: 3180: 3179: 3174: 3172: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3152: 3151: 3150: 3149: 3110: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3096: 3095: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 2930: 2929: 2919: 2891: 2863:David Eppstein 2859: 2858: 2853: 2848: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2762: 2752: 2751: 2747: 2746: 2741: 2739: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2725: 2724: 2681: 2680: 2676: 2675: 2670: 2668: 2658: 2657: 2652: 2651: 2647: 2646: 2641: 2639: 2629: 2628: 2626: 2614: 2613: 2578: 2577: 2573: 2572: 2567: 2565: 2554: 2547: 2546: 2474: 2473: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2456: 2455: 2454: 2453: 2452: 2420:Petersen graph 2376:David Eppstein 2349: 2348: 2347: 2331:Koch snowflake 2315: 2314: 2313: 2312: 2311: 2248: 2247: 2243: 2242: 2237: 2235: 2197: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2173:David Eppstein 2169: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2162: 2161: 2160: 2159: 2158: 2157: 2133:David Eppstein 2095: 2071:David Eppstein 2023: 1960: 1957: 1937: 1932: 1931: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1871:<score: --> 1840: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1826: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1808:David Eppstein 1723: 1698:David Eppstein 1679: 1678: 1677: 1617: 1605: 1601: 1598: 1589: 1585: 1580: 1572: 1568: 1563: 1557: 1552: 1549: 1543: 1531: 1529: 1517: 1513: 1510: 1503: 1499: 1494: 1489: 1481: 1477: 1472: 1468: 1465: 1461: 1457: 1453: 1441: 1439: 1430: 1428: 1418: 1416: 1392: 1380: 1377: 1376: 1375: 1321: 1316: 1289: 1286: 1275: 1250: 1247: 1244: 1243: 1231: 1228: 1227: 1222: 1218: 1216: 1213: 1212: 1210: 1209: 1154: 1098: 1096: 1095: 1040: 985: 930: 875: 820: 765: 710: 655: 600: 545: 490: 435: 380: 325: 270: 215: 160: 105: 84: 83: 82: 79: 78: 75: 74: 69: 68: 61: 54: 46: 43: 37: 31: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 6084: 6073: 6070: 6069: 6067: 6048: 6044: 6033: 6032: 6031: 6027: 6023: 6018: 6015: 6014: 6013: 6009: 5995: 5993: 5988: 5986: 5983: 5981: 5978: 5976:(e.g. page 8) 5975: 5972: 5970: 5967: 5965: 5962: 5960: 5957: 5955: 5952: 5950: 5947: 5946: 5943: 5939: 5933: 5928: 5927: 5926: 5922: 5918: 5914: 5909: 5908: 5907: 5903: 5893: 5889: 5885: 5884: 5883: 5879: 5875: 5859: 5851: 5847: 5846:Real Analysis 5831: 5823: 5820: 5816: 5815: 5814: 5813: 5809: 5805: 5789: 5769: 5749: 5740: 5738: 5734: 5730: 5722: 5716: 5712: 5708: 5703: 5702: 5701: 5697: 5693: 5689: 5688: 5687: 5686: 5682: 5678: 5672: 5670: 5664: 5662: 5654: 5650: 5646: 5642: 5638: 5634: 5633:Nicole Oresme 5630: 5629: 5628: 5627: 5623: 5619: 5615: 5607: 5602: 5587: 5583: 5579: 5573:<math: --> 5570: 5567: 5566: 5565: 5560: 5556: 5550: 5549: 5548: 5544: 5540: 5533:<math: --> 5530: 5529: 5528: 5523: 5519: 5498: 5494: 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Index

Knowledge talk:WikiProject Mathematics
Archive
2020

v
t
e
Motivation
Nov 2002โ€“Dec 2003
Janโ€“Aug 2004
Sepโ€“Dec 2004
2005
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
2006
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May

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