Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Boxing/Archive 10

232:. Watch the ring introductions of Foreman vs. Briggs, Spinks vs. Cooney, and Fury vs. any of his comeback opponents not named Deontay Wilder. Each introduction of the billing of the bout has two unifying similarities. No presence of a physical world championship belt, yet a statement of a fighter being some form of "the heavyweight champion." Boxrec lists no ring titles, as we know, but it lists Spinks vs. Cooney as having been promoted as the world's heavyweight championship. Foreman vs. Briggs and Fury's bouts in between his alphabet fights have no indication of being billed/promoted for any form of the world's heavyweight title by boxrec. We have proven not to care about what boxrec says as set in stone, so this should be completely irrelevant as each fight could, and honestly 447:. All it would do is denote that a particular bout was billed as a title fight, rather than proclaim it to be a genuine title fight. I am leaving three different snippet examples of the careers of Foreman, Briggs, and Fury. NOTE: In these examples, only fights with the billing of this claim have this change. Fights such as Fury vs. Seferi, which was billed as a "heavyweight bout" do not have inclusion because the billing does not include the championship claim, despite Fury and the ring announcer claiming that he was the "lineal" heavyweight champion. The same is true for his fight versus Pianeta. Due to these fights not being genuine title bouts, there is no inclusion of having "won" "lost" or "retained" the championship claim. 5570: 2562:(BWAA) when naming awards, so it's time we start doing the same for the sanctioning bodies. Granted, it might look a bit clunky having to spell them out all the time, and in mainstream media the fully-worded names of the orgs are rarely used, but we have to accept they're not on the abovementioned list of exceptions. We wouldn't have to leg to stand on if any senior editor happened to come along and scrutinise MOS:BOXING for "doing our own thing", which is a possibility if edit wars spill out into 186:. The undisputed champion was eventually crowned through multiple fights billed as championship fights (aka unifications). The inauguration of the NYSAC title only shows the future trends since Papke was still promoted as a title claimant before his bout with Klaus. The latter had held that alphabet middleweight title. All one has to do is choose their favorite combination of letters and imagine each title claim as a sanctioning body. This shows the importance of a fight being 31: 1597:“contributors” of Knowledge (XXG) have a vendetta against records saying this is not a database. If deleting flagicons is how we save records so be it. I like the icons and have kept my mouth shut on this topic because of it, but the alternative is to delete mass amounts of information because of know it alls that have never heard of boxrec. Some fighters on boxec have no nationality listed, therefore we need to delete all flagicons. 4608:

advance—only something Earth-shattering like COVID could ever postpone or cancel those. This is completely unlike boxing, a notoriously decentralised and shambolic sport at the professional level, which never holds annual events. Due to mishaps such as missing weight and other shenanigans, every single scheduled fight on a boxing card is subject to change on the same day—even hours before a fight (see

4128: 3613:. The Chicago Manual of Style actually prefers "vs." They don't even mention just "vs". However, Merriam-Webster, like WP:MOS, approves of all three. I agree with previous comments that "v." is largely legalistic, so that should simply be discarded as an option. My preference would be "vs" for the sake of practicality and simplicity; it also seems to be more universal than "vs." 4493: 2937: 2272: 3738: 4755:

fight...No other major sports have this problem." Other major sports do have this problem time-to-time per my examples. While it may be a bit more frequent in boxing, I don't know if we have the evidence to confirm that outside of anecdotal evidence. That is why below I proposed a standard of state/national commissions or as

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governing bodies were not consistent enough and or their champion records are partially missing. Prior to the 1930s/1920s, the way in which champions were recognized was not consistent enough to be held to the same standard. The 1910s and prior was filled with claimants as recognized and acknowledged by the newspaper writers.

3235:!vote (that !vote will not be considered in this consensus analysis) and there was one editor who never clearly stated or implied their position but made an argument giving some credence to the opposition (that will be given a more limited weight in the analysis). The affirmation argues that it would create a 5622:

initials because writing them out in full would cause clutter. Another exception is when something is most commonly known by its acronym, in which case the expansion can be omitted (except in the lead of its own article) or be in parentheses—e.g. according to the CIA (U.S. Central Intelligence Agency).

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WBC, WBA (Super), WBA (Regular), IBF, WBO, IBO I think is fair to say are known to boxing fans, and are acceptable abbreviations as per Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Boxing/MOSGuidelines. It is not a question of "forcing" readers to click links. As the links are provided as sources of information. This

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I don't think this is an all-or-nothing situation. I think upcoming fights should be added as there is encyclopedic value for a reader to quickly see what fight is next for a fighter. However, there should be some established standard as to what is needed for it to be added and that standard should

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we also exclude new sections of paragraphs that have upcoming fights in them as seen in MMA. If a reason for doing this is that posting upcoming fights is unencyclopedic, then the same extends to the rest of the article, not just the record tables. We already have so many messy and incomplete records

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I think I need to clarify. I 100% agree with you that fights are rumored and even announced and then cancelled with relatively high frequency in boxing. What I was addressing was your statement "...every single scheduled fight on a boxing card is subject to change on the same day—even hours before a

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So does this mean that we just don’t care about people who have visual impairments and have difficulty see through all the pretty colors? Someone on this project said they had difficulty seeing the difference between the previous orange for newspaper decisions and losses. We can’t pretend like people

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I have always liked the flagicons for that reason of knowing the nationality of the people they fought, but if deleting them will save all full records and allow me to continue mass adding records, I care more about the record. I have already begun mass deleting flagicons from historical fighters and

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World Boxing Council (WBC), World Boxing Association (WBA) (Regular version), World Boxing Association (WBA) (Super version), International Boxing Federation (IBF), World Boxing Organisation (WBO), International Boxing Organisation (IBO) are unnecessary and I think should not be spelled out in this

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guidelines. Suggest, like in MMA fighters pages, that upcoming fights with that supported by independent, reliable source to be added in the body text, but no fight record should be appear in the fight record section until the fight has been fought. Hidden text can be used to pre record some info in

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To a certain extent, this discussion suffered from a lack of participation, which is problematic considering this could have project wide implications for Wikiproject Boxing. While the affirmation has a technical numeric majority by two !votes, there isn't a silver bullet policy argument here to tip

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match his place of birth. People born in England are British. Both Lewis and Calzaghe are British. England and Wales are in the UK. The reason UK is omitted has nothing to doing with a person identifying as English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British; it's omitted because it's unnecessary. –

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Now, I said that I am not reviving a debate on lineal titles. The examples have focused on heavyweight champions who have been called lineal champions at different points of their careers. Still, this change does not affect all other fighters referred to as lineal champions at some point or another.

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as being for the "linear heavyweight championship." I understand the debate which culminated in the removal of lineal titles. I am not attempting to revive a dead argument despite having brought up a word that may indicate that I am trying to do so. I will show an example of what I mean after making

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BoxRec does the same thing we do; add it when there's confirmation in the media. They had Fury vs Joshua up for about two weeks. I don't mean to bludgeon with the same point, but fight records are a record of fights that have happened, not what might. And a commission or network listing it on their

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should apply. Fights in the UK (and Europe?) should be without a fullstop and those in America (Canada too?) should be with. I'm not quite sure on "vs" vs "v" for British-English; I'd personally prefer "vs", but as Mac has pointed out, "v" seems to be common in English sports. However, looking at a

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The biggest issue with this is not only that we haven't come to a conclusion, but that there is no consistency. There are plenty of fighters that can't have flagicons because the ethnicity of the fighters some boxers with articles faced is not known. If some articles cannot have flag icons, for the

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Let it be known that I've never liked WP's policy on fully-worded acronyms, but I also accept that boxing articles aren't going to get special treatment on WP. All it would take is an admin with a keen eye to notice that WikiProject Boxing is trying to do its own thing compared to the myriad other

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Your submission is sort of oppose/support, the way I'm reading it. I have no objection to upcoming fights being described in the prose with RS, but I am absolutely opposed to any form of preliminary hidden text in the record table, as outlined above. WP:MMA does the right thing by allowing them in

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So, before I consider starting an RfC, it'd be helpful to know how many Project members are willing to chip in and be heard. The RfC would hopefully also draw in outside editors with no ties to the Project, for a most balanced set of opinions. It could all end up in another no-consensus, or even a

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There are problems with counting fights that are simply 'billed' as championship fights as genuine title fights, because it's too easy for promoters to do this. When Tyson Fury didn't have a world championship belt, for example, and when even the various bodies that claim to determine the 'lineal'

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A note—now that I like! I've seen them being used at such a variety of articles—often with far more complicated details than our Super/Regular dealy—that we could easily adopt it. Sometimes I see {{efn|}} being used (e.g., Crawford's article), and other times I see {{refn|group=nb|}}. Not sure if

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It was pointed out in the discussion by many editors that vs. is more common in America than in Europe and other areas of the world, where vs is prominent. Regional difference was acknowledged by at least four of the participants (Mac Dreamstate, SMCCandlish, Squared.Circle.Boxing, and Jahalive).

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I'm wary of having concurrent topics running, but this other record table issue—meaning, whether to include them at all—is a serious one with a lot of overlap to the flagicons. It could be that modern boxers (who didn't have hundreds of fights) might need to be treated differently than historical

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From the looks of it, we have a very different group of editors actively maintaining the Project compared to six years ago—whether that makes a difference remains to be seen, as I have no idea what y'alls stance is. Mine hasn't changed one bit. I maintain that professional boxers do not represent

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P.S. This would not promote the change of adding all fights with what they are billed as I.E. Ali vs Foster being billed as "The Sound and the Fury" as this is irrelevant to the point of keeping records of bouts that were historically listed as for a championship yet only substantiated by a claim

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always has been disingenuous to call champions prior "lineal" champions. Removing this concept from our records has forced me to read more about how champions were referred to before alphabet titles to retain the historical championships. For example, did you know that while many fans today call

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Finally, I would like to say that the conclusion that lineal titles are not to be included in boxing info tables has been a positive effect which has made working on records without alphabet letters much more accurate to the times. The lineal concept did not exist before the 1960s, and it is and

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When looking at the landscape of the times before alphabet championships, it is not too far removed from what we have nowadays. How is the middleweight championship landscape of 1911-1913 different from how the first 168lbs undisputed championship took place or any other division's lead up to an

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Unless specified in the "Exceptions" section below, an acronym should be written out in full the first time it is used on a page, followed by the abbreviation in parentheses, e.g. maximum transmission unit (MTU) if it is used later in the article. Common exceptions to this rule are post-nominal

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omitting upcoming fights. "Confirmed" dates or not, boxing is in stark contrast to other major sports such as football (soccer and American), snooker, tennis, motorsports, or wintersports, to name but a few. These sports operate under governing bodies, and stage annual events scheduled years in

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Furthermore, the many-colored champions of the 1890s and 1900s would have to have their titles deleted based on the fact that there were no governing bodies declaring their colored championships. By leaving notes in the notes section that certain bouts were billed as championship fights, we are

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The reality is that there was never a 'pre-alphabet' era where there was one recognized world champion. Multiple US state commissions recognized their own champions. The BBBofC (and the IBU) declared world champions who were often different to the most-recognized (and usually mob-controlled) US

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won the Police Gazette's vacant heavyweight championship after defeating Bill Squires. Without removing lineal titles, that information would be lost in archives and ultimately in time. I hope that these fights billed as championship fights aren't forgotten in time by the boxing fans who may be

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where the American flag showing is not the 1912 flag that was used at the time. We show the flag of Italy that isn’t representing the Kingdom of Italy in 1944 and instead a flag that was not used until 1946…If we “need” to retain flagicons, perhaps they should be consistent with the flags that

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Yes. Now is the time. I added the record of Tommy Gibbons only to see it completely deleted and disrespected because some editors are too lazy to learn how to use search and replace and decided the best use of Knowledge (XXG) is to hide limit and restrict information.I like flagicons, but some

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making judgments about who the 'real' champion at the time was and disregarding the reports of the time. European governing bodies and some American commissions recognized champions prior to the 1920s before the long staple of the NYSAC and NBA titles. The problem is that those commissions and

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Are we any closer to switching to notes for Super/Regular, etc.? The only sticking point was whether to use {{efn|}} or {{refn|group=nb|}}, but I'm really eager to see how it'll look. Got a good feeling about it. If either Crawford or Spence collect all the marbles, it would also be a good

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Individual publications deciding to go against American-English conventions shouldn't be a reason for us to follow suit and ignore Knowledge (XXG) policy. I only see an argument to standardise one or the other for fights between non-English-speaking fighters located in non-English-speaking

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or been otherwise proven. An upcoming boxing match has not taken place, has not been proven to exist until the bell rings, and could be cancelled within hours of said bell ringing. We should only be adding fights to record tables after they have taken place. This ensures adherence to

4732:—I really want to emphasise that. He's had more fights cancelled/postponed than any other fighter that comes to mind. No other major sport has this problem. OK, so a wildfire might cancel a NASCAR race; a storm might cancel a marathon; but in boxing, the biggest fights are cancelled 1853:") I do not feel this applies to any record whatsoever regardless of a collapsible parameter as this is the reason we place boxing records at the bottom of the article. The reason I feel all records should be collapsible for those nerds such as us that want to go down to the sources. 5226:

This keeps some happy in that records stay 100% accurate, keeps others happy allowing upcoming sourced fights to be discussed, and gives a path for well sourced rumored fights to be included when they are notable. To me, this meets almost all the major points raised. Thoughts

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At the end of the day, the notes section is there for important notes about a fight, such as the way in which a DQ or NC occurred, or any titles fought for or included in the billing of the fight, regardless of any opinion on their validity, is an important historical

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How can flag icons be used in cases such as Spain in the 1930s…? What flag is to be used in cases of civil wars where there was no flag consensus…? Also, why must flagicons be protected so much when we do not even list flags that existed at the time…? Cases like

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The one thing I would say I think spring events are cancelled or significantly postponed more often then one might initially think. Yes, it is rare, but so are fights called of the day of and we can adjust for those. Consider the following non-COVID examples

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If we are to go based on what you say we should, we must also delete all Ring magazine championships as a magazine is not a governing body. Think for a moment about how deleting these Ring title fights is going to do championship record keeping any good

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champions had removed him from that position, he was still billed as the lineal heavyweight champion in his comeback fights. I think we need to be careful about which claims to world title fights we include and also be very clear how we present them. --

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more commonly known by their acronyms than the list of alphabet titles. Additionally, non-boxing fans won't have an inkling what these acronyms mean. We shouldn't force readers to click links when we have a perfectly applicable guideline that prevents

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Since the start of the MOS, I've been a proponent for including a redundant "0" even if a boxer has no losses, whilst omitting draws and NCs. Not really sure what my rationale was, but it's pointless either way. What's say we simply let the fields for

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as such. By saying that we should now require governing bodies to have backed up all championships for them to be listed, we are making unfair judgments on who was and was not involved in title bouts and therefore not being impartial to the historical

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Not sure what happens when an RfC sort of goes out on a whimper like that, actually. If editors themselves get to close, that's great. If it still needs outside involvement to 'stick' as a local consensus, well.. where were them lot for over a month?

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I agree with "v" having mainly legal usage, but the aim is to standardize and create a consistency with specifically boxing match articles, as this is one area where there is major overlap and inconsistency between American, and British/Commonwealth

1619:, which concerns me greatly. It would appear as though there is an opinion amongst some editors that boxing records should not be present on WP at all. We will definitely need to invite them here for discussion, because such a rigid adherence to 3735: 245:

gained recognition as the lineal super bantamweight champion and never lost that status in the ring or abdicated it verbally. Rigondeaux vs. Ceja would not be affected by this change as the contest was billed as a WBC super bantamweight title

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allows for all variations listed. I've never liked the dot in "vs.", but maybe it's strongly an American preference that cannot reasonably be expected to make way for "vs" for U.S.-based fights. I would absolutely loathe to see "v" used.

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after the consistent establishment of the governing bodies which when unified, denote and undisputed champion: The NYSAC and NBA which later developed into the WBA WBC and later IBF and later WBO and hopefully not the IBO down the line.

4842:- even if it never occurs - has significant coverage in verifiable sources and therefore is valid for inclusion. So my take on WP:CRYSTAL is not that future events should not be discussed - in contrast they should be discussed as the 4991:

Regardless of what we decide, I think we should all be able to agree that something needs to be done about this. I would reluctantly agree to this suggestion if we only allow fights to show up if, for example, they appear on boxrec.

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undisputed fight in the last ten years? The only differences I see are that nowadays, no decisions (newspaper decisions) are obsolete, and the titleholders do not fight multiple fights between title fights. Look at the careers of

4728:. In boxing, events are cancelled constantly, even if categorically confirmed by promoters and networks alike. This has been the case for Fury fights in particular since 2013. To include any upcoming fight on his record table is 5272:

For #3 -Ramous fights should NOT be recorded let a lone have a stand alone article. If a actual fight which had happened and it is extremely important and well-source we can also create a stand a lone page after the fight had

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Anyway, one format I've insisted on sticking to for years is abbreviating the sanctioning bodies, mainly WBA/WBA/IBF/WBO, but also IBO, EBU and whichever others are common. However, I may have been going about this wrong. At

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and let me know what they think of her notability as a boxer? I assumed she would be notable as a IBA Women's World Amateur Boxing Championships and African Amateur Boxing Championships medalist, but I'm a bit confused by

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I never claimed that there was ever a time when there was one recognized world champion. I am acknowledging that and attempting to come up with a solution for listing the multiple champions in a way that retains historical

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be somewhat high. For example, maybe something like the fight appears on the schedule of the national/state boxing commission. That way the latest hot take/rumor isnt added, but still likely fights to occur are shown.

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I think it's about time we bring boxing BLPs in line with the rest of Knowledge (XXG). The acronyms for sanctioning bodies should be spelled out per the above; they're not listed in the exceptions list and them being

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and would be simpler/cleaner/shorter, while those in the opposition emphasized that there are regional dialect differences that could lead to one article using vs and another using vs. (this argument is grounded in

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world champions. Boxrec includes no mention of any ring magazine championships, yet we have them, which shows that we do not base our information purely on what is shown on boxrec. Let's do the same in the cases of

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Get those itchy revert fingers clicking, people! Crawford–Spence is exactly the reason this RfC got going. Watch them cancel it with a week to go, and then won't the users I called out above feel a bit silly?

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Quality assessments are used by Knowledge (XXG) editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at

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Funnily enough, in my first few months of editing I edit warred with somebody to remove instances of this. They won (they linked a guideline or two), but I think I snuck back and changed it anyway (naughty).

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is the point I'm making; only boxing fans know what the acronyms stand for, the rest of the world doesn't. If people don't know what the acronyms stand for then they're forced to click the link to find out.

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Valid for inclusion in the prose, sure. At this point, entire articles could be written on Crawford–Spence or Fury–Joshua. But until they've met in the ring, none of it belongs on a record table. A fight

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stated, what is in Boxrec. I think these situations put a fight in the same standing as the above examples - while they may be cancelled there is strong enough support to justify encyclopaedic inclusion.

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What American style guides recommend "vs" with no period? The only one I'm aware of is the American Medical Association's. If this was a medical topic that recommendation might be relevant, but it's not.

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It would be great to end the disputes about them, but I have to admit that sometimes I like them so I can quickly see things like "This boxer only fought guys from the UK for the first five years of his

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As I harped on about in the first RfC 'til I was blue in the face, the most logical reason to get rid of record table flags is that it would completely eliminate the edit wars which pop up in regard to

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I agree, my main thought is that because "vs" is so standard outside of the USA, and within the USA all three are used, that "vs" should adopted as standard for all articles about boxing matches. ---

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and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

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I'd welcome an RfC regarding flags. As for the record table issue, that would be a hill that I'd happily die on...I pretty much view them as a necessity for boxing BLPs (more so for modern boxers). –

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Does this section have a resource list? If it doesn't, I think having one would be very useful. Maybe someone here is sitting on a bunch of useful magazines or books and could help with some topics.

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Just as an observation, reading these boxers records when the flags are present make it look so much better and it's easier to see where they have competed. Would love it to be changed back to that.

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The only other alternative I can think of for Super and Regular would be to use a note. And no, Chezza, it wouldn't apply to British, Commonwealth or European because we don't use the acronyms. –

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I am only mass deleting flags for the records I put in (over 250). Part of my initial goal was to add so many records with flagicons that it would become the consensus, but after this issue with

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to remove such visually orientated content without a consensus in place. Before the MOS gathered ground, I made the mistake of pre-emptively mass-deleting flags across several articles, only for

4630:, and we do away with many pointless edits which end up being reverted due to fight negotiations falling apart or the event being cancelled. The article body—prose—is where such content belongs. 5781:

Would this apply also for titles which are sanctioned by other bodies, such as titles sanctioned by the European Boxing Union, Commonwealth Boxing Council and British Boxing Board of Control?

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as the world & American middleweight championship, however, we don't have any records of an American governing body substantiating this claim, we just have the records of the fights being

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If we simply report titles as declared by commissions, many championship bouts will be lost in time on Knowledge (XXG). There are zero reports of any commissions or governing bodies declaring

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I don't know the difference either. Will have to look into it. The note idea could also help reduce clutter for undisputed champions. It would be an eyesore for the big four plus the IBO. –

1888:, when there hasn't been a new one to usurp it yet. I really wouldn't advise zapping any more of them until that has taken place. As I said, I know full well what happens when it backfires: 4137: 5150:

As you can see, I had already cross out the "suggestion" so it should be clear that I "OPPOSE" fight that has not actually happened to be record in the fight record section in the article.

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My proposition is using "vs" as an international standard, as it is widely used in US media (I don't believe that's due to "laziness"), and is the most common form of title in many places.

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parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.

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Just "v" is primarily a legal, not sporting, usage. "Vs." is usual in the US. Yes, some US sources use "vs", but they're just being lazy. "Vs" is more usual in Commonwealth English.

2538:, what we should be doing in the lead and body of every boxing article (record tables and succession boxes are exempt for brevity) is replicating the format used in the lead section of 5631:

commonly known by their acronym is debatable (for every source that doesn't spell them out, there's one that does). BLPs for UFC, NBA, NFL and NHL spell them out and I'd argue they're

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in boxing match titles. A strong majority of editors agree that v or v. is either (or both) uncommon in boxing articles or more associated with the legal realm, rather than sporting.

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the former "lineal" heavyweight champion, the newspapers reporting on him at the time did not even fully recognize his championship and referred to it as a title "claim"? Furthermore,

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Throughout boxing history, there have been hundreds of champions. The first disputes go back to the 1890s from the heavyweight title with the recognized world championship lineage of

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My finger was indeed very itchy when I saw the Crawford–Spence edits! Is there any need to request a closure? The consensus is clear and in such cases involved editors can close. –

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I wouldn't recommend mass-deleting flagicons for the reason above, unless you created the tables yourself. If a record table has had them for a while, it may be seen as disrupting

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Rumored fights may only be discussed in an article, even at times have their own stand alone article, when there is extensive coverage from a multitude of sources consistent with

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balance themselves out and omit "0" from all fields until they become "1" or more? The infobox (truncated for example purposes) for Oleksandr Usyk would therefore look like this:

2530:" section below, an acronym should be written out in full the first time it is used on a page, followed by the abbreviation in parentheses ... if it is used later in the article. 2145:

The rationale I always figured was behind it was that undefeated records are always emphasised, whereas 0 draws and NCs aren't. Although I like it, I'm not fussed either way. –

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I'd argue Paul vs Fury should be American-English. Without Fury the event goes on with a different opponent; without Paul there is no event. That should be a strong enough tie.

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However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass

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when an event has started, then fill in the blanks and unhide when the result is announced. If a fight hasn't happened then we don't have anything to make a record of. –

4403: 1529:. Per bullet point #2, that is to mean flags which were present in a record table for a long time should stay in place, whereas tables which either never had flags ( 4311:. The most common usage in British English is "vs" (with no full stop). The most common usage in Australia might be "v", but I was the only one to comment on that. 1726:

to crawl out of the woodwork in protest of it. The last thing I want with a fresh RfC is for a bunch of concurrent edit wars to bog it down, as happened last time.

727: 2347: 84: 3339:: Mac Dreamstate (this users ILIKEIT !vote was discounted but other separate analysis done by them of the dialect differences was considered as you'll see below) 3260:

the scale enough to reach a consensus for either side, especially considering the credence given to the opposition by multiple participants. Therefore, there is

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Just a tiny bit clunky, but nothing outrageously brevity-killing. And should that be "an NC" or "a NC"? Anyway, if we drop the indefinite articles ("a", "an"):

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It's omitted because over the years, enough editors pushed to have it omitted, which gives the UK special treatment. Anyways, we're just going in circles here.

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Good to know, I'll add it to the MOS. Just thinking, it may possibly avert some of the edit warring over English/Scottish/Welsh/NI when it comes to that field.

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and not promotional/tabloid sources and the like, are allowed to have an entry in the text of an article; but again, nothing should be in the fighter's record.

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bunch of official fight posters, I'm seeing both being used with no particular preference either way. So we may have an argument to go with "vs" over "v". –

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Also, the majority of fighters with flagicons pre 1960 are riddled with modern flags that didn’t exist at the time so I think that is a good place to start.

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in a rematch on Feb 21, 1896. The fight was billed as the world's heavyweight championship, yet most fans and writers at the time recognized Corbett as the

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And I don't see my suggestion as a "wishy-washy metric"; the A-side in a fight is the "more important" of the two in the overwhleming majority of cases. –

3839:

Many others in this RfC see inconsistent usage of "vs" and "vs." in the US, but consistent usage of "vs" outside the US as a reason to standardize on "vs".

2636:, during his boxing career. If British? Why then is the "U.K." omitted from his boxing matches articles' infoboxes & his BLP's infobox, concerning his 1681:

I won't deny their usefuless as a visual aid for that reason, but I believe the negatives (i.e., the edit warring they attract) outweigh their usefulness.

4581:

Should we omit upcoming fights—even if confirmed with a date, press conferences or other publicity—from professional boxing record tables? Choices are to

4267:. Whether there is a regional difference is not something I have ever noticed, but I hardly think many Americans will be offended at a missing period on 444: 3321: 2527: 3036:

by User:Fep1970 made me realise they're not correct. Yes, they're affiliated with the main orgs, but not labelled as such. Some may remember I made a

5208:. The coverage of this should be enough that the fight is notable for its absence even if the fight never takes place. Examples of this include the 4273:

As a secondary preference – in the case that votes win out to treat it as an ENGVAR case – we should at least be consistent with the two, and avoid

1801:

This is what I have been doing to each record that has newspaper decisions, but it should also be added to any record over 80 fights in my opinion.

5927:, I think {{efn}} may be the best option. {{refn}} seems to be used for adding notes within citations, or citations within notes, or something. – 5209: 5342:

Weight in is not an actual fight and should not have the fight info stated in the fight record section but only after the fight since it violate

288:

champion. All we should do is report the titles as they were declared at the time, without making judgments about who was the 'real' champion. --

3842:

Also, we cannot base the usage of "vs" or "vs." on every match outside the US on a wishy-washy metric of who's more important to the bout. ---

2723:

England isn't a sovereign state, either. My concern is that the boxers' birthplace should match their personal preference. We don't add "UK" to

5908:

opportunity to experiment prominently (meaning, high visibility so that everyone sees a new format) with undisputed titles as mentioned above.

2854:

Irish boxing history-maker Deirdre Nelson challenged for a world title in Las Vegas in her first professional fight | The Irish Sun (thesun.ie)

359:

By restricting this information based on the fact that the IBU, BBBofC, and multiple US state commissions did not recognize Ryan as a champion

5104:

Well the suggestion is just for ease of editing. I oppose to this RfC for adding a fight not yet fought in the fight record as it violet the

4710:

Again, it is often tough to compare one sport to another, but I don't think boxing is unique in the idea planned events don't always happen.

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now be amended to deprecate adding upcoming fights to record tables, and to zap all existing ones? And that we'll never have to see edits

4957:

of active and inactive fighters from the last 150 years, the last thing we need is to be wasting time fixing and updating upcoming events.

4423:

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to

4271:

grounds. In fact, given that you find both forms in many countries, you might say that Americans who use the period are just being extra.

47: 17: 5720:

participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope

5423:

For the most part that's a wrap, then? The RfC seemed to expire without much activity, but nonetheless that's five supports overall for

3732:

If a topic has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation, the title of its article should use that nation's variety of English

1719: 4433:, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories. 2502:

in line with WP's overarching MOS, so that we don't encounter the ire of editors unfamiliar with our practices at WikiProject Boxing.

5688:

is the established way of writing lead sections and the manner in which the vast majority are written. Changing them is not required.

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could affect thousands, if not tens of thousands of boxing articles—many of which we've put shitloads of effort into over the years.

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It'll be cleaner because it will be shorter. And it will be simpler because the often confusing, full stop/period at the end of an

5136:

I do not agree with—the fight has not taken place, therefore it should not be on his record table until after it has taken place.

2727:'s BLP infobox, because he identified as Welsh. We should be adding "UK" to Lewis' BLP infobox, because he identified as British. 5581: 3548: 3026: 3017: 3008: 1500: 1213: 4643:. Not who they might fight, or who they're scheduled to fight, but an indisputable set-in-stone record of who they have fought. 4420:, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment. 3214:

should be used in the context of boxing match article titles. Specifically, the abbreviations v., v, vs., and vs are discussed.

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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Sports § Suggestion: Changing "Achievements and titles" order in Template:Infobox sportsperson

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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Sports § Suggestion: Changing "Achievements and titles" order in Template:Infobox sportsperson

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guidelines and we dont put it there just for viewing that is not how unencyclopedic and that is no how Knowledge (XXG) works.

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As can be seen, there is no reason to list "0" losses since the total and wins tally up anyway. Listing "0" for losses, draws

1884:

Already there's your first stumbling block, and I did try to warn you about mass-deleting them—some editors are (justifiably)

374:

giving factual information without our judgments on who does and doesn't deserve to have historical championship records kept.

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Looks great. Neat and tidy. I'd only suggest a colon after "... two weight classes", since it's effectively forming a list.

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as the welterweight champion, but you cannot refute his welterweight championship. He was also involved in fights that were

149:

champion. We include this to the record of Fitzsimmons obviously and also for the fight after in which he was "defeated" by

5021:

schedule only happens when signed contracts are provided, which doesn't guarantee a fight will happen, as history shows. –

3483:

is that many US based sources use "vs", hence it could become the new standard, if consensus is reached via this RfC. ---

3373:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

5366:

Fights are often cancelled in the 24 hour period between the weigh-in and fight. I'd be OK with using the hidden comments

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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more mainstream sports mentioned above, and we'd be promptly slapped down on the grounds of WP:CONLEVEL. In December, a

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It's hard to believe that anyone would be confused by seeing any of the four forms of the abbreviation in this context.

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with WBC International Silver. So, zap the prefixed main orgs wherever you see them and just leave the affiliated org.

4873:—should include only factual, verifiable events. In boxing, nothing is factual or verifiable until the bell has rung. 4609: 4508: 4304: 3776:

This proposal is about adopting "vs" as standard, as the use of "vs." and "vs" from US sources is mixed (for example:

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apply. There would be no significant benefit to ignoring these policies and replacing the American "vs." with "vs".--

488:

P.P.S. This does not affect bouts that have any of the sanctioning bodies' titles needed for undisputed at that time.

1912:

When are we going to do anything about this? We need to also think about ease of reading for the visually impared...

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while there are two against the preference. Furthermore, there was one other editor on the affirmation that gave a

3066:

which has started to bug me—or rather, has me doubting myself with one of my old formats when the MOS got started.

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fight covered in the media before their 2015 meeting (as a stand alone article) or the professional fight between

4617:

Including upcoming fights on a table is unencyclopaedic. An encyclopaedia is a publication of factual information

2131:

I agree with this proposal. It is clear by looking at 19 fights, 19 wins, that there are 0 losses in this context.

302:

And by 'declared at the time' I mean by governing bodies, NOT by promoters, ring announcers, and TV presenters. --

5240: 4997: 4962: 4664: 2547: 2293:

Nice one. That's two of the most common types of persistent edit wars that I deal with put to bed. Happy days. –

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Apologies, there may be a slight language barrier here. Can you clarify one more time: do you support or oppose

4639:

by some users is egregious and makes a mockery of WP. A record table should be a factual record of whom a boxer

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consensus where everyone says "We love these cute little flaggies!".. ugh. Either way, that time might be now.

1549:

nationalities in the same way that amateurs do at an international level. Their licences also don't matter, as

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promoted/billed as a world championship fight, and it must remain as such, whereas the fights aforementioned

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I'm not sure we would be able to apply one or the other across all articles. As much as I love consistency,

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can be detailed in the prose. A fight record is a record of fights that have happened, not what might. –

2430: 1573:(UK/Irish flags), and many others. I'm also not willing to compromise on retaining country flags for the 213:

We already do not follow boxrec blindly, which is abundantly clear when you look at the champions of the

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What would be the benefit of changing all these article titles to a standard form of the abbreviation?--

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for a boxing world title and she did take the Irish government to be the fight licenced female boxer.

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was a great spot—just another small detail to make MOS:BOXING look more 'legit', shall we say, and not

1557:?) famously boxed under a Luxembourgian licence in 2012, despite being British. Likewise another Brit, 5328:

but I would like to propose that an upcoming fight would be listed once the weigh-in has taken place.

5220:

that is discussed in both articles as a rematch of their Olympic gold medal fight that never occurred.

4929:

are pathetic—just saying. What is that, the third time in the past year he's had a "confirmed" fight?

3977:, then we don’t treat that as a national variety of English. For the same reason we are able to apply 5860:

Is there anything that can be done to distinguish the IBO since they are not apart of the main four?

5405: 5353: 5280: 5157: 5115: 5072: 4993: 4958: 4124:

Oh yeah, cleaner, like taking out all those dirty, superfluous "u"s in words like colour and labour.

3320:

These numbers put this discussion in the 30-70% range that are typical of no consensus results. (see

2952:

until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

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the fight record and after the fight all info in the fight record can be filled for ease of editing.

4870: 4827: 4797:(original emphasis). As we see at least half a dozen times per year, confirmed ≠ going to happen. – 4627: 4503: 4380: 4348: 3734:. American-English typically uses full stops for abbreviations while British-English doesn't. Ringtv 3702: 3232: 3224: 2845: 2179: 1620: 5984: 5909: 5879: 5865: 5822: 5786: 5768: 5656: 5532: 5492: 5447: 5256: 5228: 5137: 5087: 4938: 4874: 4751: 4737: 4644: 4590: 4115: 3927:

There are two main areas, however, where Wikipedians have consistently shown that consistency does

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Things start to look really clunky. Conversely, we never use definite articles ("the") for titles:

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Apologies for not spotting this. Do you mean one of those "See " hatnotes at the top of a section?

2578: 2338:

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to

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are since there are appropriate sources for it. Similarly, upcoming fights should be included if

4725: 3227:, I would like the preface by saying there are four editors who made policy-based arguments for a 2695: 2469: 2230:

Yea that's the idea. It should only be used for the mandem like Dillian and similar such cases. –

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Maybe just continue to list it separately from any sentence containing the word "undisputed". "

5200:. The sources must establish the fight as being a major proposed event on par with an upcoming 4834:

is gonna be a world champion!" That is unverifiable. In contrast, the proposed fight between

2208:

Are we to begin ditching nationality altogether from the self-explanatory ones? As in, no more

1827:

for examples of how I want it to be. Modern fighters will be affected if we delete fights. See

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Consensus was reached to omit upcoming fights from record tables. Involved closure covered by

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for examples. I personally feel the collapsible parameter should be in place for every career.

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Agreed, something needs done. I think aligning with what Boxrec has is a good solution too.

4196:

As 2.O.Boxing explained above, consistency does not overrule national varieties of English--

3069:

For TD/NC/DQ explanations, we currently have these formats (indefinite articles underlined):

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should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. Dates are

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quotes to every article despite that style being more common in some countries than others.

3518: 3418:

I'm hoping that there's going to be consensus on this issue that allows for an exception to

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Apologies for spamming this here talk with yet more nitpicky shit, but there's something in

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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 19 § African Boxing Confederation

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Many boxing matches occur outside of these two regions, hence which version is to be used?

3498: 3440: 3344:: SMCCandlish (argued that there is a regional distinction, never stated position clearly) 2860: 1819:

I have been adding collapsible options for fighters with newspaper decisions already. See

1128: 142: 99: 3324:) Of course weight of arguments must be assessed as well. Here is a survey of the !votes: 3140:

Originally DQ win for Boxer, later ruled KO win for Opponent after incorrect referee call

2571: 4299:

replacing "vs." The most common usage in American English is "vs." It is recommended by

5924: 5616: 5060:

To add fights that yet have taken in the fight table is encyclopedic and not adhere to

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AS IT HAPPENED: 'Courageous' Kambosos responds to retirement rumours after rematch loss

4111: 3990: 3597: 1943: 1534: 1530: 1351: 1332: 1258: 1199: 1155: 981: 793: 609: 229: 225: 199: 195: 5343: 5105: 5061: 4623: 3252:). I think it needs to be noted that both camps have good arguments that are based in 5424: 5244: 5007: 4978: 4851: 4843: 4761: 4711: 4451: 4320: 4237: 4197: 4171: 4151: 4093: 4041: 4008: 3662: 3614: 3419: 3396: 2680:

People born in Maryland are American. There's no need to include USA after Maryland.

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Fights that have not to taken place should never be entered into a fighter's record.

1517:

Is it now time to get a new RfC going for these? I'm seeing it become an issue that

236:

have that note by boxrec as having been promoted as heavyweight championship bouts.

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People born in England are British. There's no need to include UK after England. –

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per the above (that includes the hidden comments). WP:CRYSTAL sums it up nicely:

1783:"), we could start adding a collapsible parameter to the really lengthy records. 1545:) should not have them added/re-added. Obviously that confuses many new editors. 5598: 3978: 2503: 1281: 1243: 1000: 747: 629: 418: 322: 303: 289: 264: 183: 179: 171: 150: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

4236:

By far, the most common usage in American English is "vs.", don't you agree?--

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Using "v" would be "cleanest"; it seems to be most popular in Australia, (ex.

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Where statistics are so lengthy as to impede the readability of the article...

1781:

Where statistics are so lengthy as to impede the readability of the article...

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I think boxing needs to be considered an outlier next to those examples, per

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Cleaner, makes making new match articles easier, makes linking easier. ---

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He has also held the International Boxing Organization (IBO) title since...

4110:

would be eliminated. As to c&p, that's evidendly not always the case. -

3133:

Originally TKO win for Opponent, later ruled NC after they failed drug test

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RfC about replacing "vs." and "v" with "vs" in boxing match article titles

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based on the above comments, what do we think about this as a compromise:

5086:

the prose, and only in the record table after the fight has taken place.

4887:

I accept your point about CRYSTAL. Anything that is reliably sourced and

4003:

Knowledge (XXG)'s MOS says "In sports, it is "vs." or "vs", depending on

3769:

Unclear what your postion is on fights outside of the US and UK, such as

3480: 3450: 3382:

about replacing "vs." and "v" with "vs" in boxing match article titles --

3241: 2535: 2519: 2346:. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 5298:. Prose is the place to detail upcoming fights, not the record table. – 3973:

for other countries). If people spell it differently by preference, and

2936: 5714:

is relevant. MOS:BOXING is based on established policy and guidelines.

4830:

is misapplied/misinterpreted. I think it is to avoid statements like "

3806:

I don't see the inconsistent usage in some US sources as an issue. The

2440:, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at 716: 4133: 3210:

In this Request for Comment, editors discussed what abbreviations for

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RfC on omitting upcoming fights in professional boxing record tables

3299:

For the purposes of this close, I will refer to those who support a

443:

I completely agree and that is why my proposal would not affect the

4736:. It absolutely needs to be treated differently than other sports. 4507:

with another article. If you are interested, please participate in

5132:

upcoming fights in the record table only? For example, edits like

4210:"Vs." is not an "American variety" however, hence does fall under 4092:

Copying and pasting an article title into a link is pretty easy.--

3744:

replacing any instances of "v" (I haven't seen any) with "vs". –

2878:

Can we add a note in the infobox and lead sections with links to

3969:

spell color that way and those who don’t are seen as wrong (and

1927:

with worse visual ailments couldn’t possibly care about boxing.

5255:

I would be very happy with this solution, especially point #1.

4496:

An article which may be of interest to members of this project—

3358:

agreement on the substance of the oppositions dialect argument.

2940:

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect

137:

claimed the heavyweight title and fought for that championship

5957:. Wasn't too sure on the exact wording so I kept it simple. – 3903:), we shouldn't be considering the "A-side" in articles. --- 2991:

I've been using these formats for as long as I can remember..

1525:

took place from December 2015 to January 2016, and ended in a

25: 5427:'s proposal, therefore a healthy Project-wise consensus. Can 1995:

Sounds good either way. I'll get that RfC started this week.

4402:, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent 3935:

Spelling that differs between different varieties of English

2597:

But I don't really have much of a valid argument to make. –

5767:" do look horribly clunky, but it's all I've come up with. 4150:

I don't understand your point about copying and pasting.--

3680:

using "vs" with no dot, across WP regardless of MOS:TIES.

2477:

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from.

2388:

It will work on a variety of links, including those from

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Australian National Boxing Federation - Upcoming Events

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World Boxing Association (WBA) title (Regular version)

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John Smith "" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.

1869:

sake of consistency, no records should have flagicons.

5765:"World Boxing Association (WBA) title (Super version) 4667:

was started, stopped, and never finished due to rain.

4089:

How would that make it easier to make an new article?

4703:

is an extremely famous event to never have happened.

4533:

The following discussion is an archived record of a

2514:

put it so dismissively.. got me right in the feelz.

4543:

No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2785:Your last sentence is one thing we can agree on. – 2095: 2087: 2079: 2065: 835:

Shannon Brigg's two fights versus Foreman and Lewis

834: 3547:For an example issue, many boxing matches such as 3165:Now that just looks flat-out weird. Any thoughts? 2444:. Questions, comments and requests can be made at 522:Last five fights of George Foreman's boxing career 3899:however. Also, from an encyclopedic perspective ( 4626:(a completed fight is a 100% verifiable event), 672:Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, U.S. 5707:I think is fair to say are known to boxing fans 5577:. This invitation comes as this WikiProject's 5189:Fights scheduled, with sources consistent with 4685:was postponed July to October due to wildfires. 4406:was approved and has been implemented to add a 3216:Firstly, I find that there does appear to be a 3157: 3147: 3137: 3130: 3123: 3101: 3082: 3071: 2544: 2524: 2498:I'm always looking at ways to bring as much of 5398:] proposal as that was my original suggestion. 4935:WAIT A MINUTE GUYS, NOW IT'S FURY–USYK!!!!!!!! 3655:Merriam-Webster dictionary or manual of style? 3126:Split TD: Boxer cut from accidental head clash 2886:. It'll give us a more professional look ;) – 2858:Woman boxer wins legal fight – The Irish Times 767:MGM Grand Garden Arena, Paradise, Nevada, U.S. 190:as a championship bout regardless of the era. 4635:The use of hidden notes as a placeholder for 4546:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 3218:consensus against using v or v. abbreviations 3188:on draftifiying nearly a thousand Olympians. 2810:And the only one we'll agree on, apparently. 258:promoted & billed as world title fights. 8: 5752:IP already got on our cases about this (see 4301:The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage 2348:39th most imported script on Knowledge (XXG) 1970:, this is just another reason to get rid. – 1537:) or have been without them for many years ( 1315:Won WBO Inter-Continental heavyweight title; 1219:MGM Grand Garden Arena, Paradise, Nevada, US 4612:). No other major sports have this problem. 2510:. Truth be told, it still kinda stings how 2350:. The idea is that it takes something like 2178:Can somebody incorporate the guidance from 5573:You are invited to join the discussion at 4491: 4144:) but I'd like to hear from an Australian. 2550:(WBO) title from 1999 to 2000 ... and the 2062: 1022: 838: 525: 445:List of world heavyweight boxing champions 3180:Mass draftification proposal on Olympians 2928:"African Boxing Confederation" listed at 2534:Therefore, in order to be compliant with 1317:Billed for the "lineal" heavyweight title 1266:Billed for the "lineal" heavyweight title 986: 3596:. The period/full stop is superfluous. - 2558:This is already regularly done with the 2554:(WBC) title twice between 2004 and 2013. 2328:User script to detect unreliable sources 1067: 1008:Billed for the "world" heavyweight title 891: 732:Billed for the "world" heavyweight title 679:Billed for the "world" heavyweight title 637:Billed for the "world" heavyweight title 562: 5210:Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao 4393:Project-independent quality assessments 3740:(both American) include the full stop. 3661:Why is it more universal than "vs."?-- 3292: 3254:Knowledge (XXG) policies and guidelines 1745:, I am going to do the exact opposite. 1018: 18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Boxing 5719: 5706: 5620: 4786: 4696:both have articles and never happened. 4447: 4407: 4274: 3934: 3926: 3731: 3329:: Tbf69, The Gnome, Scapulus, and HTGS 2741:Lewis' personal preference of British 657: 194:When we look at the situation between 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2560:Boxing Writers Association of America 2047:Infobox tweaks: wins/losses/draws/NCs 2027:2001:569:7120:D500:8D1F:93B3:C4C:B62C 202:, we are looking at a fight that was 7: 4931:OMG FURY–JOSHUA IS ON U GUYS!!!!!!!! 4795:until the event actually takes place 3369:The following discussion is closed. 3334:: Squared.Circle.Boxing and Jahalive 1175:T-Mobile Arena, Paradise, Nevada, US 1019:Tyson Fury's comeback plus Klitschko 5756:), so better to start doing it now. 4789:scheduled or expected future events 4637:"almost certainly confirmed fights" 3262:no consensus to replace vs. with vs 1615:A related but different subject is 93:Bouts billed as championship fights 4826:For what is worth, I always think 4400:Knowledge (XXG):Content assessment 3975:publications differ by style guide 3089:TKO win for Opponent, later ruled 2438:not a script to be mindlessly used 1775:ones. Or, looking at bullet #3 of 1337: 824:Won WBA and IBF heavyweight titles 24: 4678:and the main page talks about it. 3559:, so which version should we use. 2848:have an article as she did fight 2694:Maryland isn't a country. And we 2370:and turns it into something like 1561:, boxed under a Latvian licence. 1003:, Atlantic City, New Jersey, U.S. 958:, Atlantic City, New Jersey, U.S. 632:, Atlantic City, New Jersey, U.S. 5568: 5552:The discussion above is closed. 4334:The discussion above is closed. 4126: 3549:Anthony Joshua vs. Andy Ruiz Jr. 3354:This demonstrates that there is 2948:. This discussion will occur at 2935: 2624:Lennox Lewis: British or English 2270: 272:passing through an older record. 29: 5243:? (please add anyone I missed. 4498:Deen the Great vs. Walid Sharks 4486:Deen the Great vs. Walid Sharks 772:Retained IBF heavyweight title; 724:Retained WBU heavyweight title; 4670:The World Marathon Major 2012 4374:Could somebody take a look at 3814:both say to use the period. – 3160:For the WBC welterweight title 3108:DQ win for Boxer, later ruled 2907:20:23, 30 September 2022 (UTC) 2421:The script is mostly based on 1071: 895: 677:Retained WBU heavyweight title 566: 1: 4701:World Chess Championship 1975 4329:21:27, 23 February 2023 (UTC) 4292:21:39, 18 February 2023 (UTC) 4246:22:38, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 4232:22:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 4206:22:23, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 4192:20:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC) 4160:21:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 4138:Kambosos v Haney LIVE updates 4120:10:25, 19 February 2023 (UTC) 4102:19:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 4072:19:02, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 4050:18:46, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 3996:20:27, 19 February 2023 (UTC) 3958:19:40, 19 February 2023 (UTC) 3921:17:13, 19 February 2023 (UTC) 3891:13:36, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 3862:12:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 3835:12:19, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 3799:09:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC) 3765:13:20, 12 February 2023 (UTC) 3715:22:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 3690:12:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC) 3671:21:00, 22 February 2023 (UTC) 3611:Support/Prefer vs as standard 3516: 2969:American Boxing Confederation 2922:15:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC) 2869:11:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC) 2446:User talk:Headbomb/unreliable 2021:15:51, 19 February 2022 (UTC) 2005:20:51, 15 February 2022 (UTC) 1991:20:41, 15 February 2022 (UTC) 1957:16:00, 15 February 2022 (UTC) 1863:19:06, 4 September 2021 (UTC) 1845:19:01, 4 September 2021 (UTC) 1793:11:40, 4 September 2021 (UTC) 1769:22:08, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1755:22:05, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1736:18:17, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1709:14:14, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1691:20:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC) 1677:20:51, 1 September 2021 (UTC) 1577:column—I want them all gone. 1519:some editors have encountered 521: 4610:Alexander Dimitrenko in 2010 4263:as an ideal opportunity for 4084:What do you mean by cleaner? 3937:. TITLEVAR is unaffected. – 3651:19:17, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3627:19:05, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3606:18:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3585:14:08, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3532:13:46, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3503:12:56, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3475:12:40, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 3445:19:18, 8 February 2023 (UTC) 3410:18:52, 8 February 2023 (UTC) 3387:15:59, 8 February 2023 (UTC) 3307:and those against it as the 3186:this village pump discussion 3175:19:47, 2 February 2023 (UTC) 3050:16:04, 22 January 2023 (UTC) 2981:21:28, 19 January 2023 (UTC) 2962:21:25, 19 January 2023 (UTC) 2942:African Boxing Confederation 2577:Bases covered and all that. 2113:NCs would look even dumber. 1937:17:50, 20 January 2022 (UTC) 1922:16:02, 6 November 2021 (UTC) 1907:20:56, 11 October 2021 (UTC) 1886:sticking to the existing RfC 1879:18:07, 10 October 2021 (UTC) 1811:16:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC) 1053: 1050: 1042: 1039: 869: 866: 858: 855: 556: 553: 545: 542: 4305:The Chicago Manual of Style 3658:How is "vs" more practical? 1699:champions just to be safe. 1658:18:59, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 1633:17:40, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 1607:17:25, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 1591:17:17, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 1399:, Belfast, Northern Ireland 250:. This is a fight that was 178:, Cyclone Johnny Thompson, 6009: 5319:18:06, 30 April 2023 (UTC) 5289:01:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC) 5265:21:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC) 5237:User:Squared.Circle.Boxing 5166:01:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC) 5146:18:45, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 5124:02:31, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 5096:18:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC) 5081:10:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC) 5042:20:26, 26 April 2023 (UTC) 5016:14:13, 23 April 2023 (UTC) 5002:13:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC) 4987:16:12, 22 April 2023 (UTC) 4967:18:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC) 4947:17:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC) 4912:20:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC) 4883:17:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC) 4860:16:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC) 4818:22:50, 30 March 2023 (UTC) 4770:21:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC) 4746:16:20, 23 April 2023 (UTC) 4720:16:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC) 4653:19:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC) 4599:18:23, 30 March 2023 (UTC) 4589:omitting upcoming fights. 4479:20:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC) 3812:Associated Press Stylebook 3422:, for boxing match titles. 3282:08:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC) 3155:Add the definite article: 3150:For WBC welterweight title 3112:KO win for Opponent after 2840:Should this article exist? 2696:never use USA in locations 2489:16:00, 29 April 2022 (UTC) 2481:MediaWiki message delivery 2331: 2314:04:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC) 2289:23:32, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2265:23:12, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2251:21:20, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2226:21:02, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2203:20:45, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2166:20:43, 16 April 2022 (UTC) 2035:17:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC) 5948:09:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC) 5918:18:51, 20 June 2023 (UTC) 5607:10:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 5461:No objections from me. – 5241:User talk:CaPslOcksBroKEn 4871:building an encyclopaedia 4665:2018 First Responder Bowl 4460:20:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC) 4388:20:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC) 4365:03:06, 1 April 2023 (UTC) 4215: 4055: 4017:18:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC) 3904: 3856: 3843: 3793: 3780: 3645: 3632: 3579: 3566: 3497: 3484: 3439: 3426: 3198:14:35, 2 March 2023 (UTC) 3184:You may be interested in 3074:Split TD: Boxer cut from 2548:World Boxing Organization 2526:Unless specified in the " 2141:23:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC) 2123:17:43, 1 April 2022 (UTC) 2103: 2072: 1061: 885: 877: 498:01:52, 8 April 2022 (UTC) 427:18:55, 2 April 2022 (UTC) 404:16:11, 2 April 2022 (UTC) 312:08:47, 2 April 2022 (UTC) 298:08:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC) 282:05:40, 2 April 2022 (UTC) 5993:21:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC) 5978:20:57, 2 July 2023 (UTC) 5888:19:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5870:19:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5856:17:50, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5831:16:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5816:15:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5791:14:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5777:14:26, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5743:13:37, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5702:13:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5682:11:53, 30 May 2023 (UTC) 5554:Please do not modify it. 5541:19:18, 25 May 2023 (UTC) 5526:19:06, 25 May 2023 (UTC) 5501:18:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC) 5482:05:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC) 5456:17:18, 18 May 2023 (UTC) 4688:Major League Baseball's 4576:20:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC) 4540:Please do not modify it. 4448:|QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom 4428:WikiProject banner shell 4415:WikiProject banner shell 4336:Please do not modify it. 3371:Please do not modify it. 3264:in boxing match titles. 2930:Redirects for discussion 2820:22:52, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2806:22:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2781:22:08, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2767:20:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2737:19:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2719:18:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2690:18:26, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2676:18:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2650:16:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC) 2618:08:50, 11 May 2022 (UTC) 2587:20:17, 10 May 2022 (UTC) 2442:User:Headbomb/unreliable 2362:. Accessed 2020-02-14. ( 2334:User:Headbomb/unreliable 2182:into the MOS? Cheers. – 819:, Paradise, Nevada, U.S. 5953:I've tried the note at 5582:Infobox boxer (amateur) 5414:03:48, 8 May 2023 (UTC) 5391:12:13, 7 May 2023 (UTC) 5362:10:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC) 5338:03:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC) 4974:Oppose & Suggestion 4937:Gimme a goddamn break. 4869:—bearing in mind we're 4521:08:34, 1 May 2023 (UTC) 3965:applies when Americans 3808:Chicago Manual of Style 3771:Jake Paul vs Tommy Fury 3553:Jake Paul vs Tommy Fury 3277:Iamreallygoodatcheckers 3055:Indefinite articles in 2944:and has thus listed it 1356:Los Angeles, California 5821:there's a difference. 4484:Merger discussion for 3163: 3153: 3143: 3136: 3129: 3119: 3116:incorrect referee call 3100: 3081: 2628:Did Lewis identify as 2556: 2532: 2384:. Accessed 2020-02-14. 1513:Flagicons: the rematch 1300:MGM Grand Garden Arena 1261:, Paradise, Nevada, US 817:MGM Grand Garden Arena 129:. During the reign of 4674:was cancelled due to 4619:which has taken place 4509:the merger discussion 4404:Village pump proposal 4347:A proposal to modify 3093:NC after they failed 3078:accidental head clash 2436:Do note that this is 1437:, Manchester, England 1365:WBC heavyweight title 965:WBC heavyweight title 114:Squared.Circle.Boxing 42:of past discussions. 5592:Infobox sportsperson 3925:WP:CONSISTENT says, 3726:replacing "vs." per 3479:My argument against 2552:World Boxing Council 2210:nationality=American 1569:(US/Mexican flags), 243:Guillermo Rigondeaux 5229:User:Mac Dreamstate 4850:sources are found. 4663:College football's 4535:request for comment 3705:. No other reason. 3237:consistent standard 3223:While consensus is 2987:ABC regional titles 2214:nationality=British 2212:for Mayweather, or 1224:Won WBC and vacant 812:45 years, 299 days 763:46 years, 102 days 708:47 years, 298 days 668:48 years, 106 days 625:48 years, 316 days 204:promoted and billed 5639:Pinging involved: 5270:Support #1 and #2. 4465:List of resources? 3555:are being held in 3372: 2494:Sanctioning bodies 2344:predatory journals 2340:unreliable sources 1833:Julio Cesar Chavez 1504:heavyweight titles 1455:Wladimir Klitschko 1228:heavyweight titles 1184:heavyweight titles 1140:heavyweight titles 1136:Defending WBC and 176:Georges Carpentier 5955:Savannah Marshall 5754:Talk:Ricky Hatton 5429:MOS:BOXING/RECORD 4694:1994 World Series 4690:1904 World Series 4672:New York Marathon 3730:. Policy states, 3370: 3273: 3270:non-admin closure 2540:Vitali Klitschko‎ 2377:Article of things 2356:Article of things 2107: 2106: 1510: 1509: 1382:Francesco Pianeta 1180:Retained WBC and 1131:, London, England 1066: 1065: 1013: 1012: 956:Convention Center 890: 889: 829: 828: 778:heavyweight title 730:heavyweight title 695:Crawford Grimsley 561: 560: 127:James J. Jeffries 90: 89: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 6000: 5972: 5962: 5942: 5932: 5878:" or something. 5850: 5840: 5810: 5800: 5737: 5727: 5676: 5666: 5660: 5653: 5646: 5596: 5590: 5587:is a wrapper of 5586: 5580: 5572: 5571: 5520: 5510: 5476: 5466: 5412: 5410: 5385: 5375: 5360: 5358: 5313: 5303: 5287: 5285: 5164: 5162: 5122: 5120: 5079: 5077: 5057:& Suggestion 5036: 5026: 4906: 4896: 4840:Terence Crawford 4836:Errol Spence Jr. 4812: 4802: 4676:Superstorm Sandy 4570: 4560: 4542: 4495: 4449: 4445: 4439: 4432: 4426: 4419: 4413: 4409: 4376:Yasmine Moutaqui 4343:Pending proposal 4290: 4284: 4223: 4222: 4221: 4190: 4184: 4131: 4130: 4108:abbreviated word 4063: 4062: 4061: 3994: 3988: 3952: 3942: 3912: 3911: 3910: 3895:We can refer to 3885: 3875: 3860: 3854: 3850: 3849: 3829: 3819: 3797: 3791: 3787: 3786: 3759: 3749: 3701:disclosing that 3649: 3643: 3639: 3638: 3583: 3577: 3573: 3572: 3530: 3501: 3495: 3491: 3490: 3469: 3459: 3443: 3437: 3433: 3432: 3359: 3351: 3345: 3318: 3312: 3297: 3267: 3161: 3151: 3141: 3134: 3127: 3117: 3098: 3079: 2939: 2901: 2891: 2850:Mary Ann Almager 2800: 2790: 2761: 2751: 2713: 2703: 2670: 2660: 2612: 2602: 2595:I don't like it! 2478: 2473: 2417: 2411: 2407: 2401: 2397: 2391: 2379: 2365: 2308: 2298: 2278: 2274: 2273: 2245: 2235: 2215: 2211: 2197: 2187: 2160: 2150: 2063: 1985: 1975: 1652: 1642: 1506: 1479: 1438: 1435:Manchester Arena 1427: 1400: 1367: 1359: 1339: 1318: 1311: 1292: 1267: 1262: 1229: 1220: 1210: 1185: 1176: 1166: 1141: 1132: 1073: 1068: 1023: 1009: 1004: 988: 967: 959: 946: 897: 892: 839: 825: 820: 804: 779: 768: 733: 720: 680: 673: 659: 638: 633: 568: 563: 526: 326: 207:my main points. 131:James J. Corbett 123:John L. Sullivan 117: 110: 103: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 6008: 6007: 6003: 6002: 6001: 5999: 5998: 5997: 5966: 5959: 5936: 5929: 5844: 5837: 5804: 5797: 5759:And for sure, " 5731: 5724: 5712:MOS:NOFORCELINK 5670: 5663: 5654: 5647: 5640: 5614: 5594: 5588: 5584: 5578: 5569: 5566: 5558: 5557: 5514: 5507: 5470: 5463: 5406: 5404: 5379: 5372: 5354: 5352: 5307: 5300: 5281: 5279: 5233:User:Cassiopeia 5158: 5156: 5116: 5114: 5073: 5071: 5030: 5023: 4994:CaPslOcksBroKEn 4959:CaPslOcksBroKEn 4954:Support Only If 4900: 4893: 4806: 4799: 4578: 4564: 4557: 4538: 4528: 4489: 4467: 4443: 4437: 4430: 4424: 4417: 4411: 4395: 4372: 4345: 4340: 4339: 4280: 4278: 4265:WP:CONSISTENTcy 4217: 4216: 4180: 4178: 4125: 4057: 4056: 3984: 3982: 3946: 3939: 3906: 3905: 3879: 3872: 3845: 3844: 3823: 3816: 3782: 3781: 3753: 3746: 3634: 3633: 3568: 3567: 3486: 3485: 3463: 3456: 3428: 3427: 3375: 3366: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3362: 3352: 3348: 3319: 3315: 3298: 3294: 3289: 3225:not a headcount 3205: 3182: 3159: 3149: 3139: 3132: 3125: 3103: 3084: 3073: 3060: 3038:similar mistake 2989: 2933: 2895: 2888: 2876: 2842: 2794: 2787: 2755: 2748: 2707: 2700: 2664: 2657: 2626: 2606: 2599: 2508:just an "essay" 2496: 2476: 2452: 2415: 2409: 2405: 2399: 2395: 2389: 2375: 2363: 2336: 2330: 2302: 2295: 2271: 2269: 2239: 2232: 2213: 2209: 2191: 2184: 2176: 2154: 2147: 2133:CaPslOcksBroKEn 2068: 2049: 1979: 1972: 1949:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1929:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1914:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1871:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1855:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1837:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1803:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1761:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1747:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1701:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1646: 1639: 1599:CaPslOcksBroKEn 1515: 1482: 1470: 1433: 1425: 1395: 1362: 1350: 1314: 1298: 1290: 1265: 1257: 1223: 1218: 1208: 1179: 1174: 1164: 1135: 1129:Wembley Stadium 1127: 1021: 1007: 999: 962: 954: 944: 837: 823: 815: 802: 771: 766: 723: 711: 676: 671: 636: 628: 524: 490:CaPslOcksBroKEn 396:CaPslOcksBroKEn 320: 274:CaPslOcksBroKEn 188:promoted/billed 143:Bob Fitzsimmons 111: 104: 97: 95: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 6006: 6004: 5996: 5995: 5985:Mac Dreamstate 5951: 5950: 5925:Help:Footnotes 5923:After reading 5910:Mac Dreamstate 5905: 5904: 5903: 5902: 5901: 5900: 5899: 5898: 5897: 5896: 5895: 5894: 5893: 5892: 5891: 5890: 5880:Mac Dreamstate 5823:Mac Dreamstate 5793: 5769:Mac Dreamstate 5757: 5689: 5657:Mac Dreamstate 5617:MOS:ACRO1STUSE 5613: 5610: 5565: 5561:Discussion at 5559: 5551: 5550: 5549: 5548: 5547: 5546: 5545: 5544: 5543: 5533:Mac Dreamstate 5493:Mac Dreamstate 5485: 5484: 5448:Mac Dreamstate 5421: 5420: 5419: 5418: 5417: 5416: 5364: 5322: 5321: 5292: 5291: 5267: 5257:Mac Dreamstate 5224: 5223: 5222: 5221: 5194: 5187: 5181: 5180: 5173: 5172: 5171: 5170: 5169: 5168: 5138:Mac Dreamstate 5101: 5100: 5099: 5098: 5088:Mac Dreamstate 5051: 5050: 5049: 5048: 5047: 5046: 5045: 5044: 4970: 4969: 4950: 4949: 4939:Mac Dreamstate 4919: 4918: 4917: 4916: 4915: 4914: 4885: 4875:Mac Dreamstate 4832:Keyshawn Davis 4821: 4820: 4779: 4778: 4777: 4776: 4775: 4774: 4773: 4772: 4752:Mac Dreamstate 4738:Mac Dreamstate 4708: 4707: 4706: 4705: 4704: 4697: 4686: 4683:1998 Pepsi 400 4679: 4668: 4645:Mac Dreamstate 4632: 4631: 4614: 4613: 4591:Mac Dreamstate 4579: 4550: 4549: 4548: 4529: 4527: 4524: 4488: 4482: 4466: 4463: 4394: 4391: 4371: 4368: 4344: 4341: 4333: 4332: 4331: 4294: 4272: 4257: 4256: 4255: 4254: 4253: 4252: 4251: 4250: 4249: 4248: 4168: 4167: 4166: 4165: 4164: 4163: 4162: 4148: 4145: 4090: 4086: 4085: 4077: 4076: 4075: 4074: 4035: 4034: 4033: 4032: 4031: 4030: 4029: 4028: 4027: 4026: 4025: 4024: 4023: 4022: 4021: 4020: 4019: 4001: 3976: 3868: 3840: 3804: 3774: 3720: 3719: 3718: 3717: 3707:Mac Dreamstate 3693: 3692: 3682:Mac Dreamstate 3675: 3674: 3673: 3659: 3656: 3653: 3608: 3590: 3589: 3588: 3587: 3563: 3560: 3545: 3542: 3535: 3534: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3508: 3507: 3506: 3505: 3423: 3413: 3412: 3402:Mac Dreamstate 3378:I'm opening a 3376: 3367: 3361: 3360: 3346: 3340: 3335: 3330: 3325: 3313: 3291: 3290: 3288: 3285: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3206: 3204: 3201: 3181: 3178: 3167:Mac Dreamstate 3059: 3053: 3042:Mac Dreamstate 3030: 3029: 3020: 3011: 3002: 2988: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2967:And similarly 2946:for discussion 2932: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2914:Mac Dreamstate 2875: 2872: 2846:Deirdre Nelson 2841: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2824: 2823: 2822: 2625: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2579:Mac Dreamstate 2495: 2492: 2479:Delivered by: 2386: 2385: 2382:Deprecated.com 2368: 2367: 2360:Deprecated.com 2329: 2326: 2325: 2324: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2320: 2319: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2281:Mac Dreamstate 2257:Mac Dreamstate 2218:Mac Dreamstate 2175: 2172: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2127: 2115:Mac Dreamstate 2105: 2104: 2101: 2100: 2097: 2093: 2092: 2089: 2085: 2084: 2081: 2077: 2076: 2070: 2069: 2067:Oleksandr Usyk 2066: 2048: 2045: 2044: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2037: 2013:Mac Dreamstate 1997:Mac Dreamstate 1944:Ezzard Charles 1910: 1909: 1899:Mac Dreamstate 1867: 1818: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1813: 1796: 1795: 1785:Mac Dreamstate 1777:WP:NOTDATABASE 1739: 1738: 1728:Mac Dreamstate 1724:some other guy 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1683:Mac Dreamstate 1664: 1663: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1625:Mac Dreamstate 1610: 1609: 1583:Mac Dreamstate 1559:Danny Williams 1535:Robin Krasniqi 1531:Nick Blackwell 1514: 1511: 1508: 1507: 1480: 1468: 1463: 1460: 1457: 1452: 1449: 1446: 1442: 1441: 1439: 1431: 1428: 1422: 1419: 1414: 1411: 1408: 1404: 1403: 1401: 1393: 1390: 1387: 1384: 1379: 1376: 1373: 1369: 1368: 1360: 1352:Staples Center 1348: 1343: 1340: 1335: 1333:Deontay Wilder 1330: 1327: 1324: 1320: 1319: 1316: 1312: 1296: 1293: 1287: 1284: 1279: 1276: 1273: 1269: 1268: 1263: 1259:T-Mobile Arena 1255: 1252: 1249: 1246: 1241: 1238: 1235: 1231: 1230: 1221: 1216: 1211: 1205: 1202: 1200:Deontay Wilder 1197: 1194: 1191: 1187: 1186: 1177: 1172: 1167: 1161: 1158: 1156:Deontay Wilder 1153: 1150: 1147: 1143: 1142: 1133: 1125: 1120: 1117: 1114: 1109: 1106: 1103: 1099: 1098: 1095: 1092: 1089: 1086: 1083: 1080: 1077: 1074: 1064: 1063: 1060: 1056: 1055: 1052: 1049: 1045: 1044: 1041: 1038: 1034: 1033: 1030: 1027: 1020: 1017: 1015: 1011: 1010: 1005: 997: 992: 989: 984: 982:George Foreman 979: 976: 973: 969: 968: 960: 952: 947: 941: 938: 933: 930: 927: 923: 922: 919: 916: 913: 910: 907: 904: 901: 898: 888: 887: 884: 880: 879: 876: 872: 871: 868: 865: 861: 860: 857: 854: 850: 849: 846: 843: 836: 833: 831: 827: 826: 821: 813: 810: 805: 799: 796: 794:Michael Moorer 791: 788: 785: 781: 780: 773: 769: 764: 761: 756: 753: 750: 745: 742: 739: 735: 734: 731: 725: 721: 709: 706: 703: 700: 697: 692: 689: 686: 682: 681: 678: 674: 669: 666: 663: 660: 655: 650: 647: 644: 640: 639: 634: 626: 623: 618: 615: 612: 610:Shannon Briggs 607: 604: 601: 597: 596: 593: 590: 587: 584: 581: 578: 575: 572: 569: 559: 558: 555: 552: 548: 547: 544: 541: 537: 536: 533: 530: 523: 520: 518: 515: 512: 509: 507: 506: 505: 504: 503: 502: 501: 500: 478: 476: 475: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 469: 457: 455: 454: 453: 452: 451: 450: 449: 448: 434: 433: 432: 431: 430: 429: 409: 408: 407: 406: 388: 387: 386: 385: 378: 377: 376: 375: 368: 367: 366: 365: 354: 353: 352: 351: 332: 331: 330: 329: 315: 314: 300: 261: 239: 230:George Foreman 226:Shannon Briggs 210: 200:Shannon Briggs 196:George Foreman 193: 156: 120: 107:Mac Dreamstate 94: 91: 88: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 6005: 5994: 5990: 5986: 5982: 5981: 5980: 5979: 5976: 5973: 5971: 5970: 5963: 5961: 5956: 5949: 5946: 5943: 5941: 5940: 5933: 5931: 5926: 5922: 5921: 5920: 5919: 5915: 5911: 5889: 5885: 5881: 5877: 5873: 5872: 5871: 5867: 5863: 5859: 5858: 5857: 5854: 5851: 5849: 5848: 5841: 5839: 5834: 5833: 5832: 5828: 5824: 5819: 5818: 5817: 5814: 5811: 5809: 5808: 5801: 5799: 5794: 5792: 5788: 5784: 5780: 5779: 5778: 5774: 5770: 5766: 5762: 5758: 5755: 5751: 5746: 5745: 5744: 5741: 5738: 5736: 5735: 5728: 5726: 5721: 5717: 5713: 5708: 5705: 5704: 5703: 5699: 5695: 5690: 5686: 5685: 5684: 5683: 5680: 5677: 5675: 5674: 5667: 5665: 5658: 5651: 5644: 5637: 5634: 5633:significantly 5630: 5624: 5623: 5618: 5611: 5609: 5608: 5604: 5600: 5593: 5583: 5576: 5564: 5560: 5555: 5542: 5538: 5534: 5529: 5528: 5527: 5524: 5521: 5519: 5518: 5511: 5509: 5504: 5503: 5502: 5498: 5494: 5489: 5488: 5487: 5486: 5483: 5480: 5477: 5475: 5474: 5467: 5465: 5460: 5459: 5458: 5457: 5453: 5449: 5445: 5444: 5443: 5438: 5434: 5430: 5426: 5425:User:RonSigPi 5415: 5411: 5409: 5403: 5402: 5397: 5394: 5393: 5392: 5389: 5386: 5384: 5383: 5376: 5374: 5369: 5365: 5363: 5359: 5357: 5351: 5350: 5345: 5341: 5340: 5339: 5335: 5331: 5330:PinoyBoxing11 5327: 5324: 5323: 5320: 5317: 5314: 5312: 5311: 5304: 5302: 5297: 5294: 5293: 5290: 5286: 5284: 5278: 5277: 5271: 5268: 5266: 5262: 5258: 5254: 5253: 5252: 5250: 5246: 5242: 5238: 5234: 5230: 5219: 5215: 5211: 5207: 5203: 5199: 5195: 5192: 5188: 5185: 5184: 5183: 5182: 5178: 5175: 5174: 5167: 5163: 5161: 5155: 5154: 5149: 5148: 5147: 5143: 5139: 5135: 5131: 5130:not including 5127: 5126: 5125: 5121: 5119: 5113: 5112: 5107: 5103: 5102: 5097: 5093: 5089: 5084: 5083: 5082: 5078: 5076: 5070: 5069: 5063: 5059: 5058: 5053: 5052: 5043: 5040: 5037: 5035: 5034: 5027: 5025: 5019: 5018: 5017: 5013: 5009: 5005: 5004: 5003: 4999: 4995: 4990: 4989: 4988: 4984: 4980: 4975: 4972: 4971: 4968: 4964: 4960: 4955: 4952: 4951: 4948: 4944: 4940: 4936: 4932: 4928: 4924: 4921: 4920: 4913: 4910: 4907: 4905: 4904: 4897: 4895: 4890: 4886: 4884: 4880: 4876: 4872: 4868: 4863: 4862: 4861: 4857: 4853: 4849: 4845: 4844:2032 Olympics 4841: 4837: 4833: 4829: 4825: 4824: 4823: 4822: 4819: 4816: 4813: 4811: 4810: 4803: 4801: 4796: 4794: 4790: 4784: 4781: 4780: 4771: 4767: 4763: 4758: 4753: 4749: 4748: 4747: 4743: 4739: 4735: 4731: 4727: 4723: 4722: 4721: 4717: 4713: 4709: 4702: 4698: 4695: 4691: 4687: 4684: 4680: 4677: 4673: 4669: 4666: 4662: 4661: 4660: 4659: 4656: 4655: 4654: 4650: 4646: 4642: 4638: 4634: 4633: 4629: 4625: 4620: 4616: 4615: 4611: 4606: 4603: 4602: 4601: 4600: 4596: 4592: 4588: 4584: 4577: 4574: 4571: 4569: 4568: 4561: 4559: 4554: 4547: 4544: 4541: 4536: 4531: 4530: 4525: 4523: 4522: 4518: 4514: 4513:Chocobiscuits 4511:. Thank you. 4510: 4506: 4505: 4502:proposed for 4499: 4494: 4487: 4483: 4481: 4480: 4476: 4472: 4464: 4462: 4461: 4457: 4453: 4442: 4434: 4429: 4421: 4416: 4410:parameter to 4405: 4401: 4392: 4390: 4389: 4386: 4383:. Thank you! 4382: 4377: 4369: 4367: 4366: 4362: 4358: 4354: 4350: 4342: 4337: 4330: 4326: 4322: 4318: 4314: 4310: 4306: 4302: 4298: 4295: 4293: 4288: 4283: 4276: 4270: 4266: 4262: 4259: 4258: 4247: 4243: 4239: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4230: 4226: 4220: 4213: 4212:WP:CONSISTENT 4209: 4208: 4207: 4203: 4199: 4195: 4194: 4193: 4188: 4183: 4177: 4176:WP:CONSISTENT 4173: 4169: 4161: 4157: 4153: 4149: 4146: 4143: 4139: 4135: 4129: 4123: 4122: 4121: 4117: 4113: 4109: 4105: 4104: 4103: 4099: 4095: 4091: 4088: 4087: 4083: 4082: 4081: 4080: 4079: 4078: 4073: 4070: 4066: 4060: 4053: 4052: 4051: 4047: 4043: 4039: 4036: 4018: 4014: 4010: 4006: 4002: 3999: 3998: 3997: 3992: 3987: 3980: 3974: 3972: 3968: 3964: 3961: 3960: 3959: 3956: 3953: 3951: 3950: 3943: 3941: 3936: 3932: 3930: 3924: 3923: 3922: 3919: 3915: 3909: 3902: 3898: 3897:WP:CONSISTENT 3894: 3893: 3892: 3889: 3886: 3884: 3883: 3876: 3874: 3869: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3859: 3853: 3848: 3841: 3838: 3837: 3836: 3833: 3830: 3828: 3827: 3820: 3818: 3813: 3809: 3805: 3802: 3801: 3800: 3796: 3790: 3785: 3778: 3775: 3772: 3768: 3767: 3766: 3763: 3760: 3758: 3757: 3750: 3748: 3743: 3739: 3736: 3733: 3729: 3725: 3722: 3721: 3716: 3712: 3708: 3704: 3700: 3697: 3696: 3695: 3694: 3691: 3687: 3683: 3679: 3676: 3672: 3668: 3664: 3660: 3657: 3654: 3652: 3648: 3642: 3637: 3630: 3629: 3628: 3625: 3624: 3621: 3620: 3617: 3612: 3609: 3607: 3603: 3599: 3595: 3592: 3591: 3586: 3582: 3576: 3571: 3565:Thanks, --- 3564: 3561: 3558: 3554: 3550: 3546: 3543: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3536: 3533: 3528: 3525: 3522: 3521: 3514: 3513: 3504: 3500: 3494: 3489: 3482: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3473: 3470: 3468: 3467: 3460: 3458: 3452: 3448: 3447: 3446: 3442: 3436: 3431: 3424: 3421: 3420:MOS:MISCSHORT 3417: 3416: 3415: 3414: 3411: 3407: 3403: 3398: 3397:MOS:MISCSHORT 3394: 3391: 3390: 3389: 3388: 3385: 3381: 3374: 3357: 3350: 3347: 3343: 3338: 3333: 3328: 3323: 3317: 3314: 3310: 3306: 3302: 3301:vs preference 3296: 3293: 3286: 3284: 3283: 3280: 3279: 3278: 3271: 3265: 3263: 3257: 3255: 3251: 3247: 3243: 3238: 3234: 3230: 3229:vs preference 3226: 3221: 3219: 3213: 3202: 3200: 3199: 3195: 3191: 3187: 3179: 3177: 3176: 3172: 3168: 3162: 3156: 3152: 3146: 3142: 3135: 3128: 3122: 3118: 3115: 3111: 3107: 3099: 3096: 3092: 3088: 3080: 3077: 3070: 3067: 3065: 3058: 3054: 3052: 3051: 3047: 3043: 3039: 3035: 3028: 3024: 3021: 3019: 3015: 3012: 3010: 3006: 3003: 3001: 2997: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2986: 2982: 2978: 2974: 2973:Shhhnotsoloud 2970: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2959: 2955: 2954:Shhhnotsoloud 2951: 2947: 2943: 2938: 2931: 2927: 2923: 2919: 2915: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2905: 2902: 2900: 2899: 2892: 2890: 2885: 2884:WP:BLPPRIMARY 2881: 2874:Date of birth 2873: 2871: 2870: 2866: 2862: 2859: 2855: 2851: 2847: 2839: 2821: 2817: 2813: 2809: 2808: 2807: 2804: 2801: 2799: 2798: 2791: 2789: 2784: 2783: 2782: 2778: 2774: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2765: 2762: 2760: 2759: 2752: 2750: 2744: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2734: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2717: 2714: 2712: 2711: 2704: 2702: 2697: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2687: 2683: 2679: 2678: 2677: 2674: 2671: 2669: 2668: 2661: 2659: 2654: 2653: 2652: 2651: 2647: 2643: 2639: 2635: 2631: 2623: 2619: 2616: 2613: 2611: 2610: 2603: 2601: 2596: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2575: 2573: 2569: 2565: 2561: 2555: 2553: 2549: 2543: 2541: 2537: 2531: 2529: 2523: 2521: 2515: 2513: 2509: 2505: 2501: 2493: 2491: 2490: 2486: 2482: 2474: 2471: 2467: 2463: 2459: 2455: 2449: 2447: 2443: 2439: 2434: 2432: 2428: 2424: 2423:WP:RSPSOURCES 2419: 2414: 2404: 2394: 2383: 2378: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2361: 2357: 2353: 2352: 2351: 2349: 2345: 2341: 2335: 2327: 2315: 2312: 2309: 2307: 2306: 2299: 2297: 2292: 2291: 2290: 2286: 2282: 2277: 2268: 2267: 2266: 2262: 2258: 2254: 2253: 2252: 2249: 2246: 2244: 2243: 2236: 2234: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2223: 2219: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2201: 2198: 2196: 2195: 2188: 2186: 2181: 2173: 2167: 2164: 2161: 2159: 2158: 2151: 2149: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2138: 2134: 2130: 2129: 2128: 2125: 2124: 2120: 2116: 2112: 2102: 2098: 2094: 2090: 2086: 2082: 2078: 2075: 2074:Boxing record 2071: 2064: 2061: 2059: 2055: 2046: 2036: 2032: 2028: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2018: 2014: 2011: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2002: 1998: 1994: 1993: 1992: 1989: 1986: 1984: 1983: 1976: 1974: 1969: 1968:MOS:SPORTFLAG 1965: 1964:MOS:FLAGCRUFT 1961: 1960: 1959: 1958: 1954: 1950: 1945: 1939: 1938: 1934: 1930: 1924: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1893: 1890: 1887: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1876: 1872: 1865: 1864: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1847: 1846: 1842: 1838: 1834: 1830: 1829:Roberto Duran 1826: 1825:Ted Kid Lewis 1822: 1812: 1808: 1804: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1794: 1790: 1786: 1782: 1778: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1766: 1762: 1757: 1756: 1752: 1748: 1744: 1743:Tommy Gibbons 1737: 1733: 1729: 1725: 1721: 1717: 1713: 1712: 1711: 1710: 1706: 1702: 1692: 1688: 1684: 1680: 1679: 1678: 1674: 1670: 1665: 1659: 1656: 1653: 1651: 1650: 1643: 1641: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1608: 1604: 1600: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1592: 1588: 1584: 1578: 1576: 1572: 1571:Carl Frampton 1568: 1567:Andy Ruiz Jr. 1562: 1560: 1556: 1555:Derek Chisora 1552: 1546: 1544: 1540: 1536: 1532: 1528: 1524: 1520: 1512: 1505: 1503: 1498: 1494: 1490: 1486: 1481: 1477: 1473: 1469: 1467: 1464: 1461: 1458: 1456: 1453: 1450: 1447: 1444: 1443: 1440: 1436: 1432: 1429: 1423: 1420: 1418: 1415: 1412: 1409: 1406: 1405: 1402: 1398: 1394: 1391: 1388: 1385: 1383: 1380: 1377: 1374: 1371: 1370: 1366: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1349: 1347: 1344: 1341: 1336: 1334: 1331: 1328: 1325: 1322: 1321: 1313: 1309: 1305: 1301: 1297: 1294: 1288: 1285: 1283: 1280: 1277: 1274: 1271: 1270: 1264: 1260: 1256: 1253: 1250: 1247: 1245: 1242: 1239: 1236: 1233: 1232: 1227: 1222: 1217: 1215: 1212: 1206: 1203: 1201: 1198: 1195: 1192: 1189: 1188: 1183: 1178: 1173: 1171: 1168: 1162: 1159: 1157: 1154: 1151: 1148: 1145: 1144: 1139: 1134: 1130: 1126: 1124: 1121: 1118: 1115: 1113: 1112:Dillian Whyte 1110: 1107: 1104: 1101: 1100: 1096: 1093: 1090: 1087: 1084: 1081: 1078: 1075: 1070: 1069: 1058: 1057: 1047: 1046: 1036: 1035: 1031: 1028: 1025: 1024: 1016: 1006: 1002: 998: 996: 993: 990: 985: 983: 980: 977: 974: 971: 970: 966: 961: 957: 953: 951: 948: 942: 939: 937: 934: 931: 928: 925: 924: 920: 917: 914: 911: 908: 905: 902: 899: 894: 893: 882: 881: 874: 873: 863: 862: 852: 851: 847: 844: 841: 840: 832: 822: 818: 814: 811: 809: 806: 800: 797: 795: 792: 789: 786: 783: 782: 777: 770: 765: 762: 760: 757: 754: 751: 749: 746: 743: 740: 737: 736: 729: 722: 718: 714: 710: 707: 704: 701: 698: 696: 693: 690: 687: 684: 683: 675: 670: 667: 665:Apr 26, 1997 664: 661: 656: 654: 651: 648: 645: 642: 641: 635: 631: 627: 624: 622: 619: 616: 613: 611: 608: 605: 602: 599: 598: 594: 591: 588: 585: 582: 579: 576: 573: 570: 565: 564: 550: 549: 539: 538: 534: 531: 528: 527: 519: 516: 513: 510: 499: 495: 491: 487: 486: 485: 484: 483: 482: 481: 480: 479: 466: 465: 464: 463: 462: 461: 460: 459: 458: 446: 442: 441: 440: 439: 438: 437: 436: 435: 428: 424: 420: 415: 414: 413: 412: 411: 410: 405: 401: 397: 392: 391: 390: 389: 382: 381: 380: 379: 372: 371: 370: 369: 362: 358: 357: 356: 355: 348: 344: 340: 336: 335: 334: 333: 324: 319: 318: 317: 316: 313: 309: 305: 301: 299: 295: 291: 286: 285: 284: 283: 279: 275: 270: 266: 259: 257: 253: 249: 244: 241:For example, 237: 235: 231: 227: 223: 218: 217: 216:Ring Magazine 211: 208: 205: 201: 197: 191: 189: 185: 181: 177: 173: 169: 165: 161: 154: 152: 148: 144: 140: 136: 132: 128: 124: 118: 115: 108: 101: 92: 86: 83: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5968: 5967: 5960: 5952: 5938: 5937: 5930: 5906: 5875: 5846: 5845: 5838: 5806: 5805: 5798: 5764: 5760: 5733: 5732: 5725: 5672: 5671: 5664: 5638: 5632: 5628: 5625: 5615: 5567: 5553: 5516: 5515: 5508: 5472: 5471: 5464: 5441: 5440: 5439: 5422: 5407: 5400: 5395: 5381: 5380: 5373: 5367: 5355: 5348: 5325: 5309: 5308: 5301: 5295: 5282: 5275: 5269: 5225: 5218:Riddick Bowe 5214:Lennox Lewis 5176: 5159: 5152: 5129: 5117: 5110: 5074: 5067: 5056: 5054: 5032: 5031: 5024: 4973: 4953: 4922: 4902: 4901: 4894: 4866: 4847: 4808: 4807: 4800: 4793:not definite 4792: 4788: 4782: 4734:all the time 4733: 4729: 4640: 4618: 4604: 4586: 4582: 4580: 4566: 4565: 4558: 4545: 4539: 4532: 4501: 4490: 4468: 4441:WPBannerMeta 4435: 4422: 4396: 4385:Mooonswimmer 4373: 4346: 4335: 4309:AP Stylebook 4296: 4260: 4218: 4058: 4037: 3970: 3966: 3948: 3947: 3940: 3928: 3907: 3881: 3880: 3873: 3846: 3825: 3824: 3817: 3783: 3755: 3754: 3747: 3741: 3723: 3698: 3677: 3635: 3623: 3618: 3615: 3610: 3593: 3569: 3557:Saudi Arabia 3519: 3487: 3465: 3464: 3457: 3429: 3392: 3377: 3368: 3356:considerable 3355: 3349: 3341: 3336: 3331: 3326: 3316: 3308: 3304: 3300: 3295: 3276: 3275: 3266: 3261: 3258: 3228: 3222: 3217: 3215: 3211: 3183: 3164: 3158: 3154: 3148: 3144: 3138: 3131: 3124: 3120: 3113: 3109: 3105: 3102: 3094: 3090: 3086: 3083: 3075: 3072: 3068: 3063: 3061: 3056: 3031: 2990: 2934: 2897: 2896: 2889: 2877: 2843: 2796: 2795: 2788: 2757: 2756: 2749: 2742: 2725:Joe Calzaghe 2709: 2708: 2701: 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22, 1997 583:Round, time 551:By decision 540:By knockout 517: 514: 511: 508: 477: 456: 360: 346: 342: 328:information. 260: 255: 251: 247: 238: 233: 215: 212: 209: 203: 192: 187: 164:Mike Gibbons 155: 146: 138: 119: 96: 78: 43: 37: 5716:WP:CONLEVEL 4925:edits like 4787:Individual 4553:WP:RFCCLOSE 4471:KatoKungLee 4351:is pending 4317:WP:TITLEVAR 3979:MOS:LOGICAL 3728:WP:TITLEVAR 3520:SMcCandlish 3395:currently, 3327:Affirmation 3305:affirmation 3250:WP:TITLEVAR 3190:BeanieFan11 3104:Originally 3085:Originally 3034:recent edit 2512:that editor 2504:MOS:INFONAT 2332:Main page: 1553:(or was it 1485:WBA (Super) 1466:28 Nov 2015 1430:9 Jun 2018 1282:Tom Schwarz 1244:Otto Wallin 1214:22 Feb 2020 1123:23 Apr 2022 1001:Etess Arena 808:Nov 5, 1994 774:Won vacant 748:Axel Schulz 726:Won vacant 630:Etess Arena 394:whatsoever. 269:Tommy Burns 265:Marvin Hart 184:Frank Klaus 180:Billy Papke 172:Jack Dillon 168:Harry Lewis 151:Tom Sharkey 135:Peter Maher 36:This is an 5612:ACRO1STUSE 5442:ever again 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