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414:). He has added the sentence "Kinder Scout and Bleaklow are the Peak District's only mountains, with summit elevations over 600m and rising more than 30m above the surrounding land (although by other definitions Bleaklow does not meet the prominence threshold of a mountain)." I maintain that no such formal definition of a mountain exists, other than in popular myth. Douglal cites various authorities but to my mind these criteria are either:
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634:) telling "the hairiest bald man from the baldest hairy man": a needless attempt to make a definitive distinction where none exists. I'm actually not bothered whether Kinder Scout is a mountain or not; I'm more concerned about the perpetuation of the myth that the word mountain has a specific and measurable limit.
514:
Both of those fall into my first category, IMO. Both talk about "the
Ordnance Survey's 2000ft threshold" but I've never found evidence that the OS has any such threshold. That's the trouble with this belief; it's widely held and frequently cited, often by reliable sources such as the BBC, but I've
421:
an over-interpretation of criteria that are intended for specific, limited purposes (categorising tops for peak-bagging purposes, defining "mountain areas" in a legal sense for access legislation, etc.) and were never intended to define the vague word
829:
I was looking for guidance around the description of UK hills and mountains in respect of the modern and former administrative areas in which they lie. Can anyone point me in the direction of any or have such guidelines not yet been assembled? thanks
638:
gives all the necessary information about the hills in question (their heights). Why add a subjective interpretation of these figures (masquerading as a definitive statement) when it's not necessary and not particularly relevant?
39:
605:"mountainous area". This is a classic example of my second category. This criterion is a necessary cut-off for a specific legal purpose. It was never intended as a means of defining what is and isn't a mountain.
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article's
Definition section says: Whittow's Dictionary of Physical Geography states "Some authorities regard eminences above 600 metres (2,000 ft) as mountains, those below being referred to as hills."
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article's
Definition section says: Whittow's Dictionary of Physical Geography states "Some authorities regard eminences above 600 metres (2,000 ft) as mountains, those below being referred to as hills."
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unreliable, merely perpetuating a commonly held but erroneous belief that a definitive cut-off altitude – variously 1000ft, 2000ft or 600m, sometimes with qualifications based on prominence – exists, or
102:
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and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
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I have made a good beginning by researching and citing a reliable source to cover the deficiencies. It should be easy to find more; it's just a question of finding time, which I will do.
533:
I agree that there is no unequivocal definition of a mountain. However there appears to be a very broad acknowledgement that summit elevation of 600m is an important characteristic:
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which states "The list is sourced from the
Database of British and Irish Hills ... for peaks that meet the consensus height threshold for a mountain, namely 600 metres"
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I disagree, and I'm always suspicious of phrases like "broad acknowledgement" and "general consensus" and "most authorities". Dealing with these citations one by one:
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It seems to me that there are summits that are clearly mountains, and there are summits that are clearly not. And then there is a grey area in between (into which
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something needs to be done about this - either a list-of-lists article written or the hatnote deleted. I note that none of the pages linked to mentions
Ireland.
74:
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and hills of similar height/prominence fall). It's like trying to divide average-height people into "tall" and "not tall", or (to quote Saul Bellow in
611:
Flimsy. By the same argument, the title at the top of that page says "Hill
Classification", so are we to conclude that all categories listed are hills?
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Who are these "some authorities"? 600m is not the same as 2000ft, so which is it (important if we are to make fine judgements near the borderline)?
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However there appears to be a very broad acknowledgement that summit elevation of 600m is an important characteristic.
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to
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This large list compiled from an external database by a now-inactive editor needs attention. See
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915:. Does anyone here want a nice little project working on upgrading this list of Irish hills?
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Collectively I am convinced that this is sufficient justification for the statement made on
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The UK SIMM stands for Six-hundred Metre
Mountain, whilst lower categories refer to hills.
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The UK SIMM stands for Six-hundred Metre
Mountain, whilst lower categories refer to hills
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject_Lancashire and
Cumbria#Problems with List of Wainwrights
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Ireland#List of mountains and hills of County Dublin
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https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/newsroom/blog/calf-top-englands-last-mountain
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677:. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the
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889:. I believe that may be of interest to members of this wikiproject.
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Talk:List of Nuttall mountains in England and Wales#Merge proposal
588:
I agree that there is no unequivocal definition of a mountain.
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I have created a proposal to reverse an undiscussed split at
590:
In that case, why object to the removal of the statement at
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never found any definitive proof that it actually exists.
808:
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from.
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It will work on a variety of links, including those from
602:
UK government ONS uses 600m to define mountainous areas."
234:
where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
856:
if you are interested. Thanks in advance for any help!
536:
UK government ONS uses 600m to define mountainous areas
695:
John Smith "" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
454:"Calf Top Cumbrian hill re-categorised as a mountain"
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or divide summits into "mountain" and "not mountain".
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the hills and mountains of Great Britain and Ireland
298:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Lists of mountains and hills in Britain and Ireland
312:
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject British and Irish hills
775:. Questions, comments and requests can be made at
371:Lists of mountains and hills in the British Isles
563:List of mountains of the British Isles by height
484:) is a dead link and not in the Wayback machine.
156:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
27:and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
406:and I are struggling to achieve consensus at
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989:WikiProject British and Irish hills articles
905:List of mountains and hills of County Dublin
679:39th most imported script on Knowledge (XXG)
315:Template:WikiProject British and Irish hills
681:. The idea is that it takes something like
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984:NA-Class British and Irish hills articles
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911:This list is in a bit of a mess. See
244:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Mountains
7:
230:for more information), or visit the
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466:"Calf Top - Britain's New Mountain"
295:WikiProject British and Irish hills
162:It is of interest to the following
25:WikiProject British and Irish hills
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636:List of hills in the Peak District
592:List of hills in the Peak District
559:List of hills in the Peak District
408:List of hills in the Peak District
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369:I've made it into a redirect to
318:British and Irish hills articles
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40:Click here to start a new topic.
979:All WikiProject Mountains pages
974:NA-importance Mountain articles
969:Project-Class Mountain articles
445:Couple of interesting articles:
752:The script is mostly based on
247:Template:WikiProject Mountains
1:
952:05:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
840:18:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
777:User talk:Headbomb/unreliable
476:Unfortunately the OS blog at
399:Definition of "mountain" (UK)
306:and see a list of open tasks.
37:Put new text under old text.
935:13:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
899:22:04, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
876:21:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
594:that implies that there is?
393:21:55, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
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346:have a redlinked hatnote to
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820:16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
812:MediaWiki message delivery
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825:Counties, old and new etc
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75:Be welcoming to newcomers
773:User:Headbomb/unreliable
693:. Accessed 2020-02-14. (
665:User:Headbomb/unreliable
224:information on mountains
561:and is consistent with
542:"Hill Bagging Glossary"
309:British and Irish hills
275:British and Irish hills
715:. Accessed 2020-02-14.
70:avoid personal attacks
767:Do note that this is
470:www.ukhillwalking.com
219:WikiProject Mountains
216:This page is part of
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604:"Mountain" <: -->
847:List of Wainwrights
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356:Narky Blert
963:Categories
832:Geopersona
410:(see also
236:discussion
352:WP:REDHAT
241:Mountains
183:Mountains
83:if needed
66:Be polite
21:talk page
785:Headbomb
758:WP:NPPSG
724:cite web
617:Mountain
550:Mountain
482:Calf Top
458:BBC News
424:mountain
111:365Â days
94:Archives
51:get help
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567:Douglal
632:Herzog
350:. Per
160:scale.
152:This
79:Seek
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